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Haraksha posted:I thought Cyvasse was a thing in the free cities, but wasn't really well known in Westeros. Tyrion, who had never been the free cities, didn't learn it until he left Westeros, or at least that's how I read it. I think that's right. Doesn't the monk teach it to him on the barge? Tyrion picks it up almost immediately and becomes a world-class player due to his
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Sep 4, 2011 02:28
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Tyrion isn't a Mary Sue at all. He's a hugely flawed character, though, yes, one of his positive traits is that he is extremely intelligent.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:08
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I'm officially adding 'Mary Sue' to the list of insults that have ceased to hold any discernible meaning (alongside 'fascist' and 'hipster').
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Sep 4, 2011 03:10
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Yes the Mary Sue character that got his nose chopped off, had his own family betray him, got sold into slavery, and rode a pig.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:27
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:Tyrion isn't a Mary Sue at all. He's a hugely flawed character, though, yes, one of his positive traits is that he is extremely intelligent. His huge flaws are that he's short, ugly, and doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut and stay out of trouble.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:27
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PeterWeller posted:His huge flaws are that he's short, ugly, and doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut and stay out of trouble. You forgot to mention that he clings onto any signs of affection thrown in his general direction.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:29
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I'm pretty sure even Martin thinks of Lord Manderly as his self-insert character. Enormous and scheming.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:35
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Man they just raped the squealing poo poo out of the timeline in the HBO series didn't they? Good lord. What a raping. What a loving time line non consensual rear end loving. Still fun to watch, mind. Just so loving raped.
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Sep 4, 2011 04:04
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Tyrion is a male character who doesn't get to do the usual Westerosi male character stuff (gently caress women without paying for it, fight, be a respected leader) because his body denies him access to those things. To compensate he's more intelligent and noble than the other able-bodied male characters, and he responds to the poo poo that life heaps on him with wit and sarcasm. If that isn't GURM and every neckbeard fan's self-insert, then I don't know what is. Plus he likes board games.Supreme Allah posted:Man they just raped the squealing poo poo out of the timeline in the HBO series didn't they? Good lord. What a raping. What a loving time line non consensual rear end loving. Still fun to watch, mind. Just so loving raped. George R.R. Martin, is that you?
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Sep 4, 2011 04:16
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No, if it were Gurm, he'd be comparing the TV show timeline to a Myrish swamp. Being raped.
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Sep 4, 2011 04:54
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Timeline is probably the last thing I would expect the show to do properly, after all, I expect by the time the series hits ADWD, Arya would be like, 18
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Sep 4, 2011 05:34
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Raserys posted:Timeline is probably the last thing I would expect the show to do properly, after all, I expect by the time the series hits ADWD, Arya would be like, 18
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Sep 4, 2011 06:32
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Quantify! posted:Yes the Mary Sue character that got his nose chopped off, had his own family betray him, got sold into slavery, and rode a pig. Don't forget that he spurned the only woman who ever actually loved him and is now pretty much incapable of loving anyone.
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Sep 4, 2011 06:33
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First time I've seen the word "spurned" used as a euphemism for "raped following the gang-rape of"
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Sep 4, 2011 07:48
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Quantify! posted:They'll probably cast new actors for the children. Characters like Rickon, Tommen, Myrcella they could do if it was necessary. But the more prominent ones like Arya, Bran, Joffrey no way, not simply because they got older.
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Sep 4, 2011 10:41
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Quantify! posted:They'll probably cast new actors for the children. Or they could just slightly rewrite the story so the characters age in line with their actors ages and they don't have to recast them.
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Sep 4, 2011 12:56
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How much time is actually supposed to have passed by the end of ADwD anyway? There's never really any concrete number given, which is probably intentional. It's gotta be at least 2-3 years, just based on the amount of time people spend traveling.
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Sep 4, 2011 13:20
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:How much time is actually supposed to have passed by the end of ADwD anyway? There's never really any concrete number given, which is probably intentional. It's gotta be at least 2-3 years, just based on the amount of time people spend traveling. Never really thought about this actually but I would guess about 2 years as well.
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Sep 4, 2011 13:42
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NihilCredo posted:I'm officially adding 'Mary Sue' to the list of insults that have ceased to hold any discernible meaning (alongside 'fascist' and 'hipster'). So the word no longer has any meaning even for people who consider themselves good at the whole writing / critic thing.
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Sep 4, 2011 14:05
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Ross posted:Never really thought about this actually but I would guess about 2 years as well. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/31411-global-timeline/
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Sep 4, 2011 14:52
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Mary Sue has a broader meaning as an author self-insert. Since GURM is writing grim-dark fantasy for Adults, it means that his self-insert character is also grim-dark and for Adults.
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Sep 4, 2011 17:12
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kanonvandekempen posted:Or they could just slightly rewrite the story so the characters age in line with their actors ages and they don't have to recast them. It makes more sense anyways!
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Sep 4, 2011 17:50
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It's a television show, they don't really care about recasting actors. Especially child actors. Given that it's far more likely for the show to have to stretch out the books over multiple seasons, it's pretty much a guarantee that they'll have to replace actors at some point.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:00
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Quantify! posted:It's a television show, they don't really care about recasting actors. I don't understand what would make you believe this is true?
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Sep 4, 2011 18:08
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Have you heard of Bewitched? Did you ever watch Rome? Did you sleep under a rock all summer and miss the news regarding Two and a Half Men?
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Sep 4, 2011 18:15
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PeterWeller posted:Have you heard of Bewitched? Did you ever watch Rome? Did you sleep under a rock all summer and miss the news regarding Two and a Half Men? That's a good point. Game of Thrones and Bewitched are so similar that we should just assume it will happen. Plus most of its child actors are well known insane drug-fueled anti-semites so they'll probably get fired and killed off.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:21
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soru posted:That's a good point. Game of Thrones and Bewitched are so similar that we should just assume it will happen. Plus most of its child actors are well known insane drug-fueled anti-semites so they'll probably get fired and killed off. Why did you ignore Rome in your snarky response? Rome was a massively budgeted drama on HBO that has a lot of similarities to GoT in terms of production. They recasted one of the main characters in mid-season to deal with age problems. But no, please go on about how Bewitched and GoT are nothing alike.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:29
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Mad Men is on its third Bobby Draper. Roseanne had two Beckys. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples that support my statement, but this is just pulling from shows I've watched. Replacing cast members is more likely than a show with a large child cast retaining all of those children for a 7+ year run. Sorry if you're married to the idea of watching these kids grow up, but only in Harry Potter films is that likely to happen.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:30
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soru posted:That's a good point. Game of Thrones and Bewitched are so similar that we should just assume it will happen. Plus most of its child actors are well known insane drug-fueled anti-semites so they'll probably get fired and killed off. You asked why people would believe it's true that a TV show would have no problem replacing actors. I gave you three examples of this happening, two of them massively popular sitcoms that changed their lead actor, and one of them another HBO series that did the exact thing we're talking about in this thread. You're just being obtuse here.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:30
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Yeah, it's not like people have come to love Arya's feistiness or swooned over Robb. Easy to replace those guys! I mean seriously, people recognise characters as looking how they look, you can't just lightly replace them with someone who looks totally different. Aging doesn't have that huge an effect, especially with make up.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:30
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Yeah, it's not like HBO has done the exact thing we are talking about in a series that is very similar to GoT in both production values and scope of narrative.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:32
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Jakabite posted:Yeah, it's not like people have come to love Arya's feistiness or swooned over Robb.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:37
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PeterWeller posted:You asked why people would believe it's true that a TV show would have no problem replacing actors. I gave you three examples of this happening, two of them massively popular sitcoms that changed their lead actor, and one of them another HBO series that did the exact thing we're talking about in this thread. You're just being obtuse here. I've never watched Rome but if your point is that main character recasting has happened on some absurdly tiny percentage of TV shows, then I guess I can accept that. I'm not even saying they definitely won't recast them -- I'm saying it's insane to assume something that VERY rarely happens is almost a certainty.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:38
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I don't think they'd actor swap POV characters. Not to say that they won't. I just don't think they will, because people are already attached to the actors, and time does pass in the story to allow for some aging. Yes, recasting has happened, but it's usually because someone had medical issues/death (Bewitched), a falling out with the production staff (Two and a Half Men), or were a really young kid in the secondary cast (Mad Men).
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Sep 4, 2011 18:50
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soru posted:I've never watched Rome but if your point is that main character recasting has happened on some absurdly tiny percentage of TV shows, then I guess I can accept that. That I only gave three examples doesn't mean that there are only three examples. Rome is especially salient, though. It's in many ways the spiritual precursor to GoT, an HBO show that exhibited similar production values, a similar approach to sex and violence, and a similar breadth and scope to the story it tells. During the second season, the character of Octavian was recast for the exact reasons we are discussing, namely the character out-aged the actor and so the latter had to be replaced with someone more appropriate. And Octavian is no side character; his war with Antony is the central conflict of the second season. quote:I don't think they'd actor swap POV characters. Not to say that they won't. I just don't think they will, because people are already attached to the actors, and time does pass in the story to allow for some aging. Yeah, while I harp on the Octavian example, I don't think they'll actually change the actors of Joffrey or the older Starks. The story and production should move ahead at a close enough rate to keep their ages from becoming a problem. But I can see them recasting Rickon and Tommen and Myrcella as they become more important to the story.
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Sep 4, 2011 18:59
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To be fair, a lot of people hated the change of actor in Rome,* and it wouldn't surprise me if that change in particular is now generally viewed as a mistake; that may alter the GoT producers' willingness to do something similar. * Also, wasn't it partly necessitated by the condensed timeline fiasco in Season 2? That whole thing was a mess. I mean, they handled it as well as they could, but still.
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Sep 4, 2011 19:06
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Did this thread get moved to the TVIV?
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Sep 4, 2011 19:06
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DirtyRobot posted:* Also, wasn't it partly necessitated by the condensed timeline fiasco in Season 2? That whole thing was a mess. I mean, they handled it as well as they could, but still. Yeah this is the source of the problem. The events covered in two seasons of Rome run from 54 BC (the death of Caesar's daughter Julia) to 30 BC (death of Cleopatra) - in other words, a span of almost twenty five years. The timeline in the show is crazy hosed up as a function of this, as Vorenus and Pullo don't appear to age at all, yet we see the birth of Vorenus' wife's son and later we see him when he's almost ten. Octavia and Atia also don't age (but Polly Walker did a good job getting fat between seasons), and yet Octavian receives an actor switch like half an episode into the second season. I don't think it was the best choice given how many other actors continued to look the same, but the timeline situation was nothing like what's going on in ASoIaF. Maybe three years have passed from Game to Dance, and if HBO puts out a new season approximately once every 12 to 18 months, they shouldn't be too far behind how you can expect the characters to realistically age. The only character I can imagine them replacing at any point is Bran, but they probably won't because gently caress Bran and his useless story arc. And yeah this is TVIV now.
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Sep 4, 2011 20:04
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I seem to remember quite a bit of time passing in each book. Doesn't GoT alone take place over the course of like a year?
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Sep 4, 2011 20:23
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I don't think it could be that near a year. It's a while but Tyrion spends pretty much the whole time travelling. Even with medieval speeds and a couple of weeks in captivity I can't see it taking a year for Tyrion to go up to the Wall, down to the inn where he meets Catelyn, over to the Eyrie and then back to the riverlands to fight with Tywin. Edit: But I don't think the timeline matters too much for the program. It'd get stupid if you had Arya tracking across Westeros for years on end, but they can just alter the timeframe within reason to be shorter or longer as required. This isn't like Harry Potter where you have the framing device of school terms and you'll know that each sequel is going to be exactly a year after the last one. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 4, 2011 |
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Sep 4, 2011 21:25
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