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I actually do think Jon is dead. Dead dead. Not even Marsh can be so incompetent to stab a guy at least 4 times without killing him. Everyone seems to be assuming Jon will live because he's one of the main protagonists. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE FIRST FOUR BOOKS
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Sep 19, 2011 21:42
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Iggles posted:I actually do think Jon is dead. Dead dead. Not even Marsh can be so incompetent to stab a guy at least 4 times without killing him. Everyone seems to be assuming Jon will live because he's one of the main protagonists. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE FIRST FOUR BOOKS I totally wish that were true but there's just no way.
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Sep 19, 2011 21:45
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Clearly he's dead, but all the stuff with Melisandre is a red herring. When some jackass blows that magic fire horn or the Wall comes down for some other reason, a well preserved Jon will get up, but be able to resist wightdom due to his Targaryen blood.
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Sep 19, 2011 21:50
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Iggles posted:I actually do think Jon is dead. Dead dead. Not even Marsh can be so incompetent to stab a guy at least 4 times without killing him. Everyone seems to be assuming Jon will live because he's one of the main protagonists. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE FIRST FOUR BOOKS
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Sep 19, 2011 21:56
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It doesn't make story sense to kill Jon. For numerous reasons, but here's the easiest one: He's the only POV left on the Wall. Sure you have Melisandre, but she hardly interacts with the men of the Night's Watch and it'd be a real stretch to have her narrate the events up there. Bran is hardly going to be able to go to the Wall and tell us what's going on. There's a reason Bran and Melisandre have such limited parts of the story in the past couple of books. They're not main characters. Jon is the main character at the Wall, just like Dany is the main character on the Eastern continent and Ned, Sansa, Tyrion and Cersei were the main characters in King's Landing. You can't kill Jon or Dany. Ned died and Sansa took up his POV, along with Tyrion. When Sansa and Tyrion leave, Cersei (and Jaime, to a degree) takes up the POV. There's plenty of characters that could replace Cersei. Either Jaime kills her and assumes the crown himself (which seems fairly likely given that nobody wants Cersei as Regent and at this point they'd probably accept him because nobody has any major beefs with Jaime and they're tired of kings loving dying), or Dany shows up and becomes the King's Landing POV. Or, comedy option, Aegon really does sack King's Landing and we follow his lovely POV as he blunders his way through convincing everyone he's really a Targ. In any case Jon ain't dead but feel free to spend the next 4 years thinking he is.
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Sep 19, 2011 22:40
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whowhatwhere posted:You really think it'll take three years? We already went through this song-and-dance twice. I say two years tops. Eh, you're probably right. This thread's already getting so bitter.
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Sep 19, 2011 22:58
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Iggles posted:I actually do think Jon is dead. Dead dead. Not even Marsh can be so incompetent to stab a guy at least 4 times without killing him. Everyone seems to be assuming Jon will live because he's one of the main protagonists. HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE FIRST FOUR BOOKS He gets a second life just by virtue of being a warg. Which I guess means Robb got punked way harder than originally thought at the Red Wedding, by getting murdered twice.
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Sep 19, 2011 23:10
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YES bread posted:He gets a second life just by virtue of being a warg. Which I guess means Robb got punked way harder than originally thought at the Red Wedding, by getting murdered twice.
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Sep 19, 2011 23:42
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Sansa will warg into the Hound, calling it now.
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Sep 19, 2011 23:45
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Ambiguatron posted:Sansa will warg into the Hound, calling it now.
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Sep 19, 2011 23:49
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Sansa combining warging with Littlefinger's instruction the way Arya combined it with her Faceless Man training would actually be an awesome twist, especially since no one is expecting Sansa to be the one to totally gently caress up everyone's poo poo.
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Sep 19, 2011 23:52
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So he solved the Meerreenneesee Knot™ by having Dany literally fly away from the whole mess on a dragon? That was the great solution that had to have the last 2 books added because a time skip wouldn't have worked?
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Sep 20, 2011 00:05
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Solice Kirsk posted:So he solved the Meerreenneesee Knot™ by having Dany literally fly away from the whole mess on a dragon? That was the great solution that had to have the last 2 books added because a time skip wouldn't have worked? That was not the entire reason the timeskip didn't work. I'd rather have AFFC and ADWD than a whole book of "oh hey this is what happened in the five year interim". Flashbacks are dull as poo poo if they're used to explain what could have just been shown. Show, not tell.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:10
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Azure_Horizon posted:That was not the entire reason the timeskip didn't work. I'd rather have AFFC and ADWD than a whole book of "oh hey this is what happened in the five year interim". Flashbacks are dull as poo poo if they're used to explain what could have just been shown. I still think the time skip could have worked, but then we might not have had Theon's chapters and that would have been a drat shame. I would have been happy with just his and Bran's chapters with a quick two page summary of what everyone else did.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:15
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whowhatwhere posted:You really think it'll take three years? We already went through this song-and-dance twice. I say two years tops. Even when he was writing books straight with no break (the first three) it was two years between releases. He's stated that he's only written like 100 pages of the next manuscript and won't even start in on it again until the new year. I don't think there's any way we're seeing Book 7 until at least early-2014. Azure_Horizon posted:That was not the entire reason the timeskip didn't work. I'd rather have AFFC and ADWD than a whole book of "oh hey this is what happened in the five year interim". Flashbacks are dull as poo poo if they're used to explain what could have just been shown. Yeah with as lackluster as the last two books were (they're really not bad books at all, just not as good as A Storm of Swords), they're a hell of a lot better than a book with constant flashbacks explaining what happened five years ago. Ross fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 00:22
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Ross posted:Even when he was writing books straight with no break (the first three) it was two years between releases. He's stated that he's only written like 100 pages of the next manuscript and won't even start in on it again until the new year. I don't think there's any way we're seeing Book 7 until at least early-2014. A more reasonable prediction: Johnny Nomad posted:So, I did the math based on the release days, and fit a polynomial curve to the data. This best fit polynomial was found to be Date = 261.3*book^2 - 218.86*book Extrapolating from that, I have scientifically determined that The Winds of Winter will be released on October 4, 2018, and A Dream of Spring on June 17, 2027. The full data set can be seen here.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:26
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Ross posted:Even when he was writing books straight with no break (the first three) it was two years between releases. He's stated that he's only written like 100 pages of the next manuscript and won't even start in on it again until the new year. I don't think there's any way we're seeing Book 7 until at least early-2014. Look at you guys. This is terrible. I'm saying we'll get a new book if the TV show catches up to the books and not a moment before that. So maybe 4 years, and thats a big "if" too since HBO loves cancelling expensive shows.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:28
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whowhatwhere posted:You really think it'll take three years? We already went through this song-and-dance twice. I say two years tops. I am not understanding this. Do you think he was just kicking back for the past decade, trying to catch his breath, but all is cool now and he's back in full swing? What indications are leading you to believe that things will be smooth sailing now? Quantify! posted:It doesn't make story sense to kill Jon. For numerous reasons, but here's the easiest one: He's the only POV left on the Wall. Come now, how many new characters has gurm introduced in each new book? Would it really be a stretch for a new POV to appear? Ambiguatron posted:Sansa will warg into the Hound, calling it now. When it happens, she will not know if she were inside him or he inside her. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 00:35
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What other major POV characters have actually 100% died other than Ned? Catelyn sort of (she's basically a different character now). Robb, Robert, Joffrey, and Tywin were never POV characters for a single chapter but I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:43
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Ross posted:What other major POV characters have actually 100% died other than Ned? Catelyn sort of (she's basically a different character now). Robb, Robert, Joffrey, and Tywin were never POV characters for a single chapter but I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. Even gurm has to know that he can only get away with "not" killing off POV characters so many times. Arya axe to the head (merely knocked out), Tyrion (not drowning) Catelyn (zombie, duh) Brienne (not quite hung) Bran (twice) and that throwaway stark character who didn't even deserve a POV of his own (not face-flayed). I would applaud the real death of Jon. Reading the part where the lady was talking with re-reek about Neds bones having not made it to Winterfell yet made me roll my eyes and anticipate him being reanimated somehow. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 00:55
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Fog Tripper posted:Even gurm has to know that he can only get away with "not" killing off POV characters so many times. Yeah that's exactly why I'm thinking one of Jon or Stannis is actually really not-gonna-be-in-the-book-anymore dead. You can only pull the "...or is he???" thing so many times, twice within the same chapter is a bit much.
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Sep 20, 2011 00:57
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Solice Kirsk posted:So he solved the Meerreenneesee Knot™ by having Dany literally fly away from the whole mess on a dragon? That was the great solution that had to have the last 2 books added because a time skip wouldn't have worked? Well, the Meerreenneesee Knot™ was in part that he couldn't decide what order to have people reach Dany in. 4/5 groups never actually reached her at all in ADWD. (Vikings, Volantenes, Tyrion, Marwyn) So he just put it off until next book.
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Sep 20, 2011 01:59
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Fog Tripper posted:I am not understanding this. Do you think he was just kicking back for the past decade, trying to catch his breath, but all is cool now and he's back in full swing? What indications are leading you to believe that things will be smooth sailing now? That is the complete opposite of what they are talking about. They are saying the Bad Thread will come back in two years tops, not that the book will be released.
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Sep 20, 2011 02:02
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Scrubber posted:Well, the Meerreenneesee Knot™ was in part that he couldn't decide what order to have people reach Dany in. Anyway, poo poo will happen once Dany gets back because she'll have dragons and that'll be the end of all the "how can I defeat my enemies ugh I am only a young girl but~" nonsense. Dragons solve every problem leaving Dany free to do something interesting.
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Sep 20, 2011 02:54
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Quantify! posted:Anyway, poo poo will happen once Dany gets back because she'll have dragons I've been thinking this for ten years but this time, it's true. 
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Sep 20, 2011 03:06
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insider posted:That is the complete opposite of what they are talking about. They are saying the Bad Thread will come back in two years tops, not that the book will be released. Ah. I see. I disagree however. Again, the earlier disgruntlement was effected by how good the earlier books are. I for one care a lot less for the characters now after having read AFFC and (most of) ADWD. It's feeling a lot like the last couple books of the Dark Tower series. By then I only read it because I'd already come so far. I predict the thread will simply peter out this time around. 
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Sep 20, 2011 03:30
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Scrubber posted:Well, the Meerreenneesee Knot™ was in part that he couldn't decide what order to have people reach Dany in. People keep saying this. The point is that he couldn't write the start of the Mereneese situation without knowing how it would end, so he could set it up. He's (presumably) got it plotted out now. It's not all in a book, but the knot's been solved. The knot was his knot, not yours. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Sep 20, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 03:54
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MikeJF posted:People keep saying this. The point is that he couldn't write the start of the Mereneese situation without knowing how it would end, so he could set it up. He's (presumably) got it plotted out now. It's not all in a book, but the knot's been solved. The knot was his knot, not yours. Exactly, and I bet The Winds of Winter will open with the two big scenes cut from ADWD, one of those most likely being a complete resolution of the Meereen fiasco.
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Sep 20, 2011 04:45
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MikeJF posted:People keep saying this. The point is that he couldn't write the start of the Mereneese situation without knowing how it would end, so he could set it up. He's (presumably) got it plotted out now. It's not all in a book, but the knot's been solved. The knot was his knot, not yours. You're spot on. The problem was that Martin had never planned to actually write this part of the story. So he had to get all this stuff set up where Jon becomes a competent Lord Commander, Dany learns what it's like to be Queen, and a bunch of characters travel to places and develop along the way. But it was all broad strokes for him. It's kind of hard to come up with specific plot points for character progression when you never planned on including it in your story. Presumably he is now closer to where he was planning on picking up the story and has concluded the whole Meereen thing in his head. We KNOW where Dany is going next, and she now has the means to get the gently caress out of Meereen in the form of 3 dragons she can control and a new army of Dothraki. As soon as all her new friends come and advise her to get her rear end to Asshai, it'll happen. There's absolutely no reason for Dany to STAY in Meereen now that she has control of her dragons and can crush her opposition, so she won't. Get it into your heads people Martin is back on track!!!
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Sep 20, 2011 05:08
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One dragon she sort of controls, if by "controls" you mean "follows around eating the remains of its kills".
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Sep 20, 2011 05:15
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Quantify! posted:We KNOW where Dany is going next, and she now has the means to get the gently caress out of Meereen in the form of 3 dragons she can control and a new army of Dothraki. As soon as all her new friends come and advise her to get her rear end to Asshai, it'll happen. There's absolutely no reason for Dany to STAY in Meereen now that she has control of her dragons and can crush her opposition, so she won't.
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Sep 20, 2011 05:29
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whowhatwhere posted:One dragon she sort of controls, if by "controls" you mean "follows around eating the remains of its kills". Hey, don't knock that level of skill. She's still uneaten, and the dragon isn't actively trying to kill her. That's better than 99.9% of people who have tried to control her dragons. 
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Sep 20, 2011 05:31
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Given how much the Red Lady has talked about her powers increasing in close proximity to the wall, and none of Jon's wounds looking like a decapitation of some sort- I had it figured for a given that she will breath some fire into Lord Snow and wake him from the dead. I actually found his chapters pretty interesting as he assumed the mantle of Lord Commander and did all these things with the Wildlings and the castles along the wall. I'm also really happy that something has finally happened with Dany. It was weird reading her fantasies about Daario, mostly from seeing pictures of the GURM lecherously grasping for females hands in pictures, and much less from the "ho ho look at this nerd thinking that badboys always get them girls wet" perspective.
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Sep 20, 2011 05:47
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Iggles posted:How has the situation changed since early aDwD when she decided to stay instead of taking the ships the 13 sent her? The weirdest thing about Daario is that he's one of those weirdo purple/blue-haired characters and that always takes me out of the "ye olde medieval times" feel the book normally has. It's the most incongruous thing in the entire series.
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Sep 20, 2011 06:31
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MikeJF posted:People keep saying this. The point is that he couldn't write the start of the Mereneese situation without knowing how it would end, so he could set it up. He's (presumably) got it plotted out now. It's not all in a book, but the knot's been solved. The knot was his knot, not yours. Except that GRUM has straight up said the knot was figuring out what order to get people to Dany. This was made worse by the fact that he never planned on writing the exact order, but then he had to write it...except he didn't write half of it, so the knot could still very well be there, just pushed back to the next book.
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Sep 20, 2011 06:43
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Quantify! posted:Read my post until my answer becomes evident because I literally say exactly what has changed. Well, hair coloring and hair dyes have been around since the times of the Egyptians; hell, Saxon men would charge into battle with blue, green, orange hair, what have you. It's really not as surprising as you think, it's just that we're used to medieval eras having only depressed, bleak, plague-ridden white people from Northern Europe whose hair only comes in brown, slightly darker brown, and blonde.
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Sep 20, 2011 07:45
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Azure_Horizon posted:I think by the time three years have gone by after ADWD's release, with no clear date for the next book's release, that The Bad Thread will return. We are biding our time. In the end you will all be like us. Still waiting for that drat paperback Martin.
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Sep 20, 2011 07:48
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A Typical Goon posted:Except that GRUM has straight up said the knot was figuring out what order to get people to Dany. This was made worse by the fact that he never planned on writing the exact order, but then he had to write it...except he didn't write half of it, so the knot could still very well be there, just pushed back to the next book. Considering how Victarion, Tyrion, and whomever the gently caress else still aren't any closer to being near Dany and she's now stuck loving around with the Dothraki again and I honestly don't see how she's going to even be arsed to get back to Mereen let alone resolve the entire loving plotline in less than half a book without being contrived as hell, and this in a book where he literally had a Dragon come out of the sky to get Dany out of an awkward "who's trying to poison her" plot.
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Sep 20, 2011 08:01
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That was one of the coolest moments in the book, sorry you may just hate enjoyable stories.Azure_Horizon posted:Well, hair coloring and hair dyes have been around since the times of the Egyptians; hell, Saxon men would charge into battle with blue, green, orange hair, what have you. It's really not as surprising as you think, it's just that we're used to medieval eras having only depressed, bleak, plague-ridden white people from Northern Europe whose hair only comes in brown, slightly darker brown, and blonde.
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Sep 20, 2011 08:45
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Quantify! posted:That was one of the coolest moments in the book, sorry you may just hate enjoyable stories. You might find this interesting, then. There's evidence that even Neanderthals hosed with the color of their hair.
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Sep 20, 2011 08:47
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