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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Not really, it's just supposed to look cool I guess. KOF2k2UM seems to do the same thing and it's even more annoying in that. I always thought it was slowdown on the SNES since it did it all the time. They even do it on HD Remix so I guess it is a "feature".
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Oct 17, 2011 20:54
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Shock Trooper posted:Mars loses to every projectile charcter in FHD, but the Clown matchup is so retardedly bad. Wish I had a video of just how lame it is. And the funny thing about all this is, Clown's nowhere near top tier in the grand scheme of things, he's pretty much smack dab in the middle... This is the kind of poo poo that makes me unable to motivate myself to ever learn that game at any half-decent level. It's a fun game to mess around with and be terrible at, but honestly, I can take Breaker's Revenge more seriously just for the stupid hatboxes that exist in FHD and some of the match ups it creates. I find that game rage-inducing. Granted, it's less of a big deal if you just avoid some characters outright, but it annoys me to no end.
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Oct 17, 2011 22:40
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Fayk posted:This is the kind of poo poo that makes me unable to motivate myself to ever learn that game at any half-decent level. It's a fun game to mess around with and be terrible at, but honestly, I can take Breaker's Revenge more seriously just for the stupid hatboxes that exist in FHD and some of the match ups it creates. I find that game rage-inducing. Exactly. If, for some cosmic reason, that there is a scene that took this game seriously, the metagame will be nothing but Wheel Kicks and Baalllooooooon.
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Oct 17, 2011 22:43
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Karnov is a dick around game. Fun for a slight change of pace but if you're putting more time in it than SF2 well, why aren't you just playing SF2.
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Oct 17, 2011 22:45
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Thwack! posted:Exactly. If, for some cosmic reason, that there is a scene that took this game seriously, the metagame will be nothing but Wheel Kicks and Baalllooooooon. There's a LOT of stuff in the game that's horrifically broken, which is why it sort of works. There's a lot of characters who can be played effectively, and even if you have a few really bad matchups, just play a second character to make up for it. It's basically a more extreme and ridiculous ST in that sense.
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Oct 17, 2011 23:01
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Broken Loose posted:So, he made his own version of Dominion, and now he is making his own version of Fantasy Flight's LCGs. Please don't troll Sirlin just to troll him, at least find a good reason to troll him. If you call PS a dominion clone you have no idea what you're talking about and have likely not played Puzzle Strike or have such a loose grasp on the gameplay that you believe them to be comparable. Dominion is a genre-defining deck-building card game, every other game that falls into that genre is not a clone or a variation. This is akin to saying every 2D fighter made since Street Fighter is a clone or variation on Street Fighter. Secondly, knowing nothing about Sirlin's next project, how do you figure that he is making "his own version" of another game? sure you can posted:Yeah, he drops hints at making something like mtg every so often. It really shouldn't be a big surprise? I mean it's not like has has already made a card game with poor art/settings before. I can almost guarantee that Sirlin has zero desire to create a CCG. On his blog he very frequently speaks very negatively towards the very idea of CCGs. Zand fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Oct 17, 2011 |
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Oct 17, 2011 23:13
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Sirlin is the ultimate aspie sperglord. News at 11.
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Oct 17, 2011 23:43
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Gamest Mook posted:Karnov is a dick around game. Fun for a slight change of pace but if you're putting more time in it than SF2 well, why aren't you just playing SF2. True, true. I suspect it says something bad about me that I'm probably proportionally way better at Breaker's Revenge than ST.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:00
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Dizz posted:Your next big project should be trying to rig that piano up to play fighting games. How difficult would it be to make a hitbox out of an old guitar hero controller? HORSEPORN posted:Sirlin is the ultimate aspie sperglord. News at 11. Why exactly? I don't know that much about him, but I recently read some of his blog and I thought it was pretty interesting.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:04
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Fayk posted:True, true. I suspect it says something bad about me that I'm probably proportionally way better at Breaker's Revenge than ST. I'd rather play Breakers than Karnov, it has a much more distinct personality I think. I hate how my character (Condor) loses hard to like all the top tiers though.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:17
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Fenn the Fool! posted:Why exactly? I don't know that much about him, but I recently read some of his blog and I thought it was pretty interesting. A long time ago he said some really really arrogant things that people repeated and made youtube videos out of. In reality he is a really confident, arrogant, and self-righteous video game designer who inserts his personal philosophy into the "Fantasy Strike" universe he created. People troll him for this and for his characters like "Jefferson DeGrey," based off Thomas Jefferson, or Valerie, the bi-polar, bi-sexual painter who dreams of living in a true melting pot of cultures, races, and sexualities. People like to troll Sirlin because he is just so arrogant and he often comes off condescending when he tries to make a point. He considers himself a God of Logic. Anyway, despite him being Sirlin, Puzzle Strike and Yomi are both fantastic games, and both are playable online here with rules on the same site.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:18
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Sirlin has plenty of good ideas, but the second you challenge him on any of his opinions, he goes through a complete mental breakdown. I recall reading one of his tirades on M:tG's marketing strategy and how it was a scam to squeeze money from the players. It was a well argued piece. But one of his readers replied in a very civil manner, pointing out that some people find the collecting aspect of the game fun. Sirlin's response was something along the lines of "You enjoy having things that other people don't," and it quickly degenerated into an attack on the reader's moral values. It was absolutely surreal to witness Sirlin's inability to accept that different things are fun for different people. EDIT: The way Zand described him as considering himself the "God of Logic" actually covers it pretty well. And while we're discussing Sirlin, I may as well plug Kongai as a fun game until you get RNGed out by Popo.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:18
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Gamest Mook posted:I'd rather play Breakers than Karnov, it has a much more distinct personality I think. I hate how my character (Condor) loses hard to like all the top tiers though. I'm not a pro at the game, but I'm genuinely trying to get better. Maybe this is the wrong way to fix it (you know, just fix infinities) but I think blocking stuff should build a little meter, at least after n-hits or something. That way when some Sho just decides to try to do his bullshit to you, he's eventually punished after you've blocked him for 20 seconds straight. I mean, if the game is willing to give meter for getting hit, giving (less) for blocking isn't all that unreasonable.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:33
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inthesto posted:Sirlin has plenty of good ideas, but the second you challenge him on any of his opinions, he goes through a complete mental breakdown. I recall reading one of his tirades on M:tG's marketing strategy and how it was a scam to squeeze money from the players. It was a well argued piece. But one of his readers replied in a very civil manner, pointing out that some people find the collecting aspect of the game fun. I've never met the guy personally (despite being 10 feet away from him at tourneys) but he seems like an intelligent guy who gets WAY too emotional. I've seen him attack people using logical fallacies on his message board, like trying to say if they don't have a notable degree/formal education that he won't try to argue with that - that's arguing the person, not the point. It's just a slightly more polite ad hominem. I guess what it boils down to is he's basically the Derek Smart of fighting games. Maybe he'll mellow with age like Derek Smart seems to have.
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Oct 18, 2011 00:35
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Yeah, ok, I can see that. Has he written anything on the fighting game scene lately, particularly any opinions on MvC3, MK, or BB? I read some of his opinions on SF4 from way back when it was first released, I didn't agree with him on everything, though I did think it was an interesting read. I poked around for some more recent entries, but I couldn't find anything. I'd read the character bios for the Fantasy Strike characters and Valarie did stick out as being particularly hackneyed. What bothered me the most was "Flagstone" is a really weak name for the evil freedom-hating empire, and then making their number one enemy be a guy made of stone seems pretty thematically confused. On the other hand I'd say Grave, Jaina, and Geiger are more interesting than the SF characters they're based on. Do any of the other characters have direct fighting game counterparts?
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Oct 18, 2011 00:43
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Fayk posted:I'm not a pro at the game, but I'm genuinely trying to get better. Maybe this is the wrong way to fix it (you know, just fix infinities) but I think blocking stuff should build a little meter, at least after n-hits or something. That way when some Sho just decides to try to do his bullshit to you, he's eventually punished after you've blocked him for 20 seconds straight. http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Breakers_Revenge Check out this fantastic Wiki. I wrote most of it, and can answer almost any Breakers questions you have. When you don't use an attack for long periods of time in Breakers, your next hit will do a ton of damage. This is why Rila is even playable, she will often be required to turtle until she can land a hit. When she finally does, it will do enormous damage.. even a C dash punch of hers can do ~40% alone if she hasnt attacked in a long time. So even if you are getting pressured so hard that you don't have any meter, your next combo is going to do a lot of damage. If you are being pressured repeatedly, you can breaker out or just wait until its over. Also, you can breaker with backdashes, most of which have some sort of application. Fenn the Fool! posted:Yeah, ok, I can see that. Has he written anything on the fighting game scene lately, particularly any opinions on MvC3, MK, or BB? I read some of his opinions on SF4 from way back when it was first released, I didn't agree with him on everything, though I did think it was an interesting read. I poked around for some more recent entries, but I couldn't find anything. Zand fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Oct 18, 2011 |
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Oct 18, 2011 01:01
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Zand posted:http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Breakers_Revenge Haha holy poo poo. I've played the game off and on for months (well, probably more like a year+, but more off than on, given the player base)...and I didn't know the next hit would do more damage if you haven't attacked for a long time. I was wondering why the damage seemed so ... inconsistent. Does it scale up slowly/evenly, or is it a more on/off kind of thing? Yeah, breakering moves is something I've never 'gotten' in the game (except maybe breaking with throws?) but then pielle's move set is kinda bad for that stuff I think, except his thunder riser or whatever it's called. Time to actually read that wiki. So I use it to punish meats more than ever doing breakers, because I always guess badly when it would apply and eat a hit.
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Oct 18, 2011 01:12
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Yomi is an awful game built for spergs by spergs and we have 2-3 kids with aspergers here who all play it and won't shutup about it. These are the same kids that land an ultra in SSF4 and act out the moves or act out win poses. They constantly imitate the voice clips from marvel (dr. doom seems to be a favorite.) On top of that the game itself just isn't fun to me. The same kids are constantly praising Sirlin and generally dickriding him in conversations with ANYONE who will listen. They will talk to you about yomi for hours even after you politely ask them to be quiet. If you mention something like "oh hey dark phoenix is silly" they will go into a 20+ minute diatribe about how "sirlin would have handled it." The funniest thing about Sirlin is that he constantly praises brood war for being one of the most balanced games of all time because of Blizzard. Nevermind that it's not actually that balanced and Blizzard had nothing to do with the game balance anyway. The guy will constantly blog about starcraft strategy or how he doesn't like Blazblue/SSF4/MvC/etc because they don't require any skill but he CAN'T EVEN PLAY THEM HIMSELF. He actually is a big fan of Guilty Gear though (despite, of course, being unable to play it.) TL;DR: Sirlin is a hilariously broken human being who isn't even good at the games he designed himself. Every person who has ever told me "I like Sirlin" is unwashed, autistic, neckbearded, and refuses to enjoy any game other than ST despite being too young to have been good at the game when it was relevant. gently caress Sirlin.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:05
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HORSEPORN posted:*spergy detailed rage against Sirlin* Wow! Let's agree to not mention Sirlin again.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:20
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HORSEPORN posted:Yomi is an awful game built for spergs by spergs and we have 2-3 kids with aspergers here who all play it and won't shutup about it. These are the same kids that land an ultra in SSF4 and act out the moves or act out win poses. They constantly imitate the voice clips from marvel (dr. doom seems to be a favorite.) On top of that the game itself just isn't fun to me. Hahaha what the gently caress are you even talking about.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:54
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HORSEPORN posted:TL;DR: Sirlin is a hilariously broken human being who isn't even good at the games he designed himself. Every person who has ever told me "I like Sirlin" is unwashed, autistic, neckbearded, and refuses to enjoy any game other than ST despite being too young to have been good at the game when it was relevant.
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Oct 18, 2011 03:04
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HORSEPORN posted:gently caress Sirlin. you know, as someone who really enjoyed LF I used to think that using forums cancer as an indicator for Bad Posts was dumb, but now....
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Oct 18, 2011 04:16
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Pretty sure what he was trying to say is:HORSEPORN posted:TL;DR: I am a unfunny broken human being who gets mad about a individual I probably never met and the people who talk about him favorably as where he was important in keeping the scene alive with starting EVO. I am the persona of people in the fighting game community who hate new players because they didn't understand the scene. I am personally unable to come to terms with this so I use stupid slang to deflect this and rant with no forethought whatsoever. Either that or he had shoryuken.com open on another tab and pasted it into the wrong window.
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Oct 18, 2011 04:51
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Zand posted:I can almost guarantee that Sirlin has zero desire to create a CCG. On his blog he very frequently speaks very negatively towards the very idea of CCGs. He's against the idea of a collectible card game, where you have to pay for boosters and things. Like someone said earlier, he'd probably make a LCG.
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Oct 18, 2011 05:00
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And people wonder why I take people who hate HDR with a grain of salt. Kongai is pretty fun btw and a neat diversion for a while, though it's run into some serious balance issues lately that don't look like they'll be resolved.
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Oct 18, 2011 05:03
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I just tried Yomi and found it surprisingly fun. Even if Sirlin himself is a bit of an rear end in a top hat or insufferable, he did make an amusing game. I assume there is probably a tier list, but I don't know how stratified it is. Valerie seems to be really good due to unrestricted combos, though. Kongai didn't really do much for me the few times I tried it.
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Oct 18, 2011 05:46
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HORSEPORN posted:
Don't you think this is an irrational level of hate for someone you've never met and will never meet? Yomi is fun. Never played flash duel or puzzle strike but they both look pretty neat. HDR is a pretty sorry replacement for ST but there were some good ideas there and it was fun as gently caress while it lasted.
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Oct 18, 2011 06:06
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chumbler posted:I just tried Yomi and found it surprisingly fun. Even if Sirlin himself is a bit of an rear end in a top hat or insufferable, he did make an amusing game. I assume there is probably a tier list, but I don't know how stratified it is. Valerie seems to be really good due to unrestricted combos, though. Yomi shouldn't have a tier list because Sirlin is so good that he can craft a completely balanced game
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Oct 18, 2011 06:10
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Lowclock posted:What's the tournament scene's stance on controllers like that which can easily do left+right at the same time? What, you mean like the default PS3 and 360 controllers?
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Oct 18, 2011 06:28
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Brannock posted:And people wonder why I take people who hate HDR with a grain of salt. Whether you like sirlin or not, HDR is still not as good a game as ST and there's really not a reason to play it anymore.
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Oct 18, 2011 07:09
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I wonder, has there ever been a fighting game that has gone as design intended and sill came out good. It feels like lots of games end up being great because of factors beyond the intent of the designer, such as glitches that allow for new game complexity and character "technology" which the designers haven't foreseen. Can you design a good game or just throw in enough general good stuff and hope all those features generate something out of the code to make a deep and interesting fighting game through emergent properties? Is there a way you can ensure you get more good glitches over bad ones? I don't know much of a thing about programming and I've just gotten into fighting games in general, so I am wholly ignorant on what makes one fighting game better than another from a design prospective.
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Oct 18, 2011 08:04
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Third Strike.
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Oct 18, 2011 08:20
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Super Turbo, Soul Calibur 1 and 2, and Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram.Groghammer posted:Third Strike.
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Oct 18, 2011 08:22
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Hasn't Super Turbo been exploited to hell and back?
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Oct 18, 2011 08:26
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Groghammer posted:Hasn't Super Turbo been exploited to hell and back? I think so, and I'm ready to be wrong about at least one part of this, but none of ST's exploits strike out as anything game-breaking or totally unintended by the designers save for Akuma. Just the same, SC2 has G22 (but it's impractical to use due to the speed of the input) and Oratan has walk-cancels (which are gone from 5.66, the definitive version). Fighters have more emergent gameplay than almost anything else save for sandbox games, so this sort of thing is the norm.
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Oct 18, 2011 08:27
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Fighting games are basically centered around emergent mechanics, honestly. You can put mechanics in and give people options but you'll never really know what happens until people get their hands on it and play professionally for at least a few months. Hell, there are even unintentional mechanics that can pop up because of engine quirks - combos are the quintessential example of this, given how they've become a central mechanic for the entire genre. A modern, lesser example would be the DHC glitch/"trick" in normal MVC3.
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Oct 18, 2011 08:34
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Broken Loose posted:I think so, and I'm ready to be wrong about at least one part of this, but none of ST's exploits strike out as anything game-breaking or totally unintended by the designers save for Akuma. Why is this so though? What defines fighting games such that emergent gameplay is so frequent? Sandbox games I can understand due to granting players a greater degree of freedom but fighting games have set inputs and limits based on character abilities. It should be more limiting than it actually is in my mind and am wondering where this emergent order is coming from for the entire genre. Sure, the players can be a factor but it isn't like people are not as creative in other genres of games. I feel that player creativity across genres can be considered consistent, yet there is a higher emergent element in fighting games. This might be all too introspective and academic for videogames though. Forgive me 
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Oct 18, 2011 08:43
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Broken Loose posted:I think so, and I'm ready to be wrong about at least one part of this, but none of ST's exploits strike out as anything game-breaking or totally unintended by the designers save for Akuma. Wasn't G22 in SC3?
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Oct 18, 2011 08:43
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Quakeworld has gotta be at least equivalent to the craziest fighting game (MvC2) in terms of "how far removed is this from the designer's vision".
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Oct 18, 2011 08:47
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sponsz posted:Wasn't G22 in SC3? And it was way more viable if the SC2 version wasn't. The game was basically ruined until they released the arcade version that fixed it. dj_de fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Oct 18, 2011 |
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