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quantegy
May 18, 2002
I see. What about cold-conditioning, is that different than cold crashing? I keep seeing those terms thrown around but I haven't been able to figure out when/how long they should be used or what temp ranges they should be.

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drewhead
Jun 22, 2002

Super Rad posted:

Leaf hop users: I bought a mix of pellet and leaf hops for my last brew since I wanted to get a good whiff of saaz aroma and always heard that leaf hops retain aroma better. Anyhow we open the bittering pellets and take a deep smell from the bag - smells lovely but it goes in the boil for bittering! I'm rather excited for the leaf hops by this point - we open that bag up - and not so much aroma. We even tried crushing them up some to release extra aromas, but all in all they seemed very dull compared the the pellet hops.

Is this usual? We still have 1 oz for dry hopping, if there are any tests I can conduct.

I presume your bittering hops were a variety other than Saaz (cause using Saaz for bittering is IMO wasting them) although you did not state this. I think you're just sensing the difference between hop varieties. Saaz have a lighter cleaner crisp aroma. They are not going to as pungent as high alpha bittering hops. They also need a beer that doesn't have a ton of other stuff in it to really shine which is why they are ideally suited for Pilsners.

TheCIASentMe
Jul 11, 2003

I'll get you! Just you wait and see!

quantegy posted:

I see. What about cold-conditioning, is that different than cold crashing? I keep seeing those terms thrown around but I haven't been able to figure out when/how long they should be used or what temp ranges they should be.

The terms are similar but indicate different intentions. Cold-conditioning is usually for clarifying your beer. Cold crashing is for stopping yeast from fermenting. The process is the same with both generally. Just stick the beer in your fridge for a while.

quantegy
May 18, 2002

TheCIASentMe posted:

The terms are similar but indicate different intentions. Cold-conditioning is usually for clarifying your beer. Cold crashing is for stopping yeast from fermenting. The process is the same with both generally. Just stick the beer in your fridge for a while.

How does that affect bottling? I've read that it could drop the yeast out, but also that it isn't usually a problem. And I've also read that if the beer is colder when you bottle it will have more initial CO2 volume, but I'm not sure if that applies when the primary fermentation was at a higher temperature. I guess there is CO2 in the top of the fermenter it could reabsorb?

ifuckedjesus
Sep 5, 2002
filez filez filez filez filez filez filez filez filez

quantegy posted:

How does that affect bottling? I've read that it could drop the yeast out, but also that it isn't usually a problem. And I've also read that if the beer is colder when you bottle it will have more initial CO2 volume, but I'm not sure if that applies when the primary fermentation was at a higher temperature. I guess there is CO2 in the top of the fermenter it could reabsorb?

You want to leave your bottles in 70 deg weather so the yeast will wake back up and ferment your bottling sugar for carbonation. Once the bottles have been carbed and the sugar exhausted, then you would put your bottles in the fridge, this encourages the CO2 to drop back into solution.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Unless you're filtering, or have been lagering the beer near freezing for months, even very clear beer has enough yeast to carbonate still in suspension. Cold conditioning just helps drop out enough yeast that it's not a cloudy mess.

Prefect Six
Mar 27, 2009

Any tips for finding coolant lines in a fridge before I drill a hole for my CO2 line?

Or maybe I'll just leave the CO2 tank in the fridge for the time being.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


If it's a standup, go through the door. If it's a chest, go through the compressor hump.

In general, though, you should be able to plug your fridge/freezer in, turn it up (colder), and let it run for a while. Then, feel the various surfaces on the outside. If you find one that isn't warm, that's a "safe" wall. For instance, the door won't warm up on a stand up fridge.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!
And once you think you have a site located, drill a small hole, just through the outer skin, and just large enough to get a piece of rigid wire through. Poke around inside with said wire and see if you find any obstacles.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


And once you've done that, pick a new site because you just found something you don't want to drill through.

Imasalmon
Mar 19, 2003

Meet me in the Hall of Fame
Run the fridge on max cold for about an hour, this will get the refrigerant lines good and warm. Then mix up a batch of corn starch and rubbing alcohol into a paste and smear it onto whatever part of the fridge you are drilling into. The area above the refrigerant line will dry first because of the heat.


Also, I find it useful to start drilling the hole for the lines from the inside. In the event that you do find a line, you don't have an unsightly hole in the top where you wanted the tower to be. Often times, you will be able to cover that hole with the tower itself, but I have seen it look pretty messy.

Super Rad
Feb 15, 2003
Sir Loin of Beef
FYI, my friend and I blindly drilled through the side of a standup (vertical split, no less) fridge without any issues (4 taps, 1 CO2 line, two long screws for the drip tray). We did look through the diagram that was taped under the fridge beforehand but those schematics were such garbage that all we could determine what that there was no indication of coolant lines along the sides.

I'm no fridge expert but I have a hard time imagining why a manufacturer would bother butting anything other than insulation along the front and side panels since the air in the fridge is almost always forced through across the coolant block in the back of the fridge - why complicate it further with extra lines along the side that would need their own fans/airflow to have any effect?

Imasalmon
Mar 19, 2003

Meet me in the Hall of Fame
Mostly for more coolant capacity.

quantegy
May 18, 2002

ifuckedjesus posted:

You want to leave your bottles in 70 deg weather so the yeast will wake back up and ferment your bottling sugar for carbonation. Once the bottles have been carbed and the sugar exhausted, then you would put your bottles in the fridge, this encourages the CO2 to drop back into solution.

Right, I was talking more about when calculating the amount of priming sugar. The calculators I've seen account for residual CO2 from fermentation based on the bottling temperature, like this one http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html . Does that apply when you cold condition or cold crash before bottling?

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

You could always take the carboy out again and let it warm up to room temp for a day before bottling if you're worried about it. As long as you don't shake it up it's not like the yeast is going to float back up into suspension.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Imasalmon posted:

Run the fridge on max cold for about an hour, this will get the refrigerant lines good and warm. Then mix up a batch of corn starch and rubbing alcohol into a paste and smear it onto whatever part of the fridge you are drilling into. The area above the refrigerant line will dry first because of the heat.


Also, I find it useful to start drilling the hole for the lines from the inside. In the event that you do find a line, you don't have an unsightly hole in the top where you wanted the tower to be. Often times, you will be able to cover that hole with the tower itself, but I have seen it look pretty messy.

That sounds like a wonderful mess. :/

Also, it really depends on what kind of fridge it is. If it's a full size fridge, the door is safe. If it's a chest, the lid is safe. If it's a mini fridge and a tower is going on top (like Imasalmon suggested) then it's likely that just about ANY surface is safe, since they get their cooling from the icebox inside.

So...what kind of fridge are we working with, here?

Imasalmon
Mar 19, 2003

Meet me in the Hall of Fame

Bad Munki posted:

That sounds like a wonderful mess. :/


Not messy, really. When I say a paste, I mean thick like glue. Once it dries, it is pretty solid, and can be cleaned up pretty easily.

Prefect Six
Mar 27, 2009

It's just a run of the mill stand up fridge. Freezer top, fridge bottom.

quantegy
May 18, 2002

Docjowles posted:

You could always take the carboy out again and let it warm up to room temp for a day before bottling if you're worried about it. As long as you don't shake it up it's not like the yeast is going to float back up into suspension.

Makes sense, thanks everyone.

Imasalmon
Mar 19, 2003

Meet me in the Hall of Fame

Prefect Six posted:

It's just a run of the mill stand up fridge. Freezer top, fridge bottom.

No lines in the door. There ought to be a diagram on the back that will help. Also, the corn starch trick.

j3rkstore
Jan 28, 2009

L'esprit d'escalier


easy single infusion pumpkin ale going down tonight :neckbeard:

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
You brew in the dark? Pretty cool.

Jacobey000
Jul 17, 2005

We will be cruising at a speed of 55mph swiftly away from the twisted wreckage of my shattered life!

tesilential posted:

You brew in the dark? Pretty cool.

My same thought as well. Brewing... at night. Crazy concept. Seems obvious but I usually brew on days off mid week.

j3rkstore
Jan 28, 2009

L'esprit d'escalier
I prefer to brew on the weekends but as my chest freezer is coming up to ale temps for a diacetyl rest its a perfect time to get an ale going that will tide me over until the lager is ready.

I got a little impatient and pitched a little hot so hopefully its not terrible.

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

Prefect Six posted:

Or maybe I'll just leave the CO2 tank in the fridge for the time being.

I missed this part yesterday. I leave my gas bottle in the fridge and it works fine.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
So the Belgian dubbel I brewed with wyeast 3787 a month ago still has a cider/green apple off flavor. Or so I thought. I cracked open a bottle of Affligem tripel tonight and was hit by the same flavor! After 1/4 of the bomber it mellowed out and tasted more like a tripel, but at first it had that same strong cider flavor.

EDIT: I'm not talking about the wine/champagne flavors characteristic of many Belgians.

Will this age out of my dubbel? I only have experience with fusel off flavors, which in my experience never really go away. I underpitched (always do) with 1 packet into a 1.08 beer. I also let the temps rise to the low seventies by the second day, which I usually do not do.


On the positive side my London porter clone v2, SMaSH cascade v2 and first RIS all came out great! I kegged and force carbed the RIS today and it already tastes great. That one went from 1.084-->1.022 in 30 hours. I added a pound of cane sugar and after another 24 hours it stopped bubbling so I let it get to 76*. it's currently at 1.015! My highest ABV brew so far :) I almost had a buzz just from the hydro sample.

tesilential fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Nov 3, 2011

vwman18
Jul 30, 2005

bah weep graaagnah wheep ni ni bong
Whoops. I made another pale ale a few weeks ago and dry hopped in the keg. I usually dry hop with an ounce of Cascade, but couldn't get any so used Amarillo. I use 2 of those stainless steel mesh balls to fit a whole ounce of leaf hop, because I can never seem to cram it all in to one. Well, I went to pull the hops out and one of them had come off the string and sank somewhere in the keg. Do I bother trying to get this out? How do I even try to remove the mesh ball? This will essentially leave a half ounce of Amarillo whole leaf hops in the beer for however long it takes to drink. I don't anticipate it lasting much past Thanksgiving as we have a ton of people coming and this recipe was requested by many of my family and friends. Think its ok in there?

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

tesilential posted:

Will this age out of my dubbel? I only have experience with fusel off flavors, which in my experience never really go away. I underpitched (always do) with 1 packet into a 1.08 beer. I also let the temps rise to the low seventies by the second day, which I usually do not do.

The one time I used that yeast in a dubbel, it really took a while to get good even with a big starter. Tasting a gravity sample about 10 days in, I honestly thought it was infected, really odd flavors. But it kept improving weekly and ended up being a nice beer with none of the initial weirdness. I'd suggest just forgetting about it for another month.

I also had a scottish "90 shilling" last year that smelled really, really strongly of cider in the fermenter. Leaving that one to sit a bit longer completely scrubbed that out, too.

vwman18 posted:

Think its ok in there?

Yeah I wouldn't worry about it, shouldn't do much harm. Good thing you decided on whole hops, though :)

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

Docjowles posted:

The one time I used that yeast in a dubbel, it really took a while to get good even with a big starter. Tasting a gravity sample about 10 days in, I honestly thought it was infected, really odd flavors. But it kept improving weekly and ended up being a nice beer with none of the initial weirdness. I'd suggest just forgetting about it for another month.

I also had a scottish "90 shilling" last year that smelled really, really strongly of cider in the fermenter. Leaving that one to sit a bit longer completely scrubbed that out, too.


Yeah I wouldn't worry about it, shouldn't do much harm. Good thing you decided on whole hops, though :)

Cool, that's very good to know! This the first beer I've made with proper temp control that wasn't ready to go straight out of primary. I let it sit for almost 2 months before kegging as well.

How do you dry hop using pellets? I've only done it with whole leaves in a hop sack in the keg. I guess I could rack an IPA from primary to secondary and then dry hop with loose pellets and hope they settle out. from what I've heard it's near impossible to do in the keg

Jo3sh
Oct 19, 2002

Like all girls I love unicorns!

tesilential posted:

How do you dry hop using pellets?

I just dump the pellets, loose, into the fermenter after the ferment dies down. They break up, absorb liquid, and settle out. After I rack to kegs and carbonate, I do get the occasional hop particle in the glass, but it doesn't bother me much, and it really only happens in the first few glases anyway.

I have also in the past used fine-mesh nylon bags - I've used both all-nylon lingerie laundry bags and cheap, knee-high stockings - but it hasn't bugged me enough to continue to use them.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Maybe I was just unlucky, but the only time I tried dry hopping with pellets it was a disaster. After racking to a keg, they kept clogging the dip tube, must have taken it apart 5 times before getting too frustrated. I eventually racked into a second keg but lost like a gallon of beer. If I ever do it again I'll at least put a mesh bag around the racking cane to prevent much crud making it into the keg.

Edit: to be fair it was an American IPA so there was a shitload of hops in there, 2+ ounces.

Docjowles fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 3, 2011

mattdev
Sep 30, 2004

Gentlemen of taste, refinement, luxury.

Women want us, men want to be us.
If you're really paranoid like I am, I'll usually sanitize one of those hop bags and stick it over the racking cane. That usually prevents any hop particles from getting into the keg/bottling bucket.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

mattdev posted:

If you're really paranoid like I am, I'll usually sanitize one of those hop bags and stick it over the racking cane. That usually prevents any hop particles from getting into the keg/bottling bucket.

If your paranoid, I'm crazy.

I just boiled a 5 gal nylon paint strainer bag to sterilize it. Then I put 2 oz whole leaf cascade in it, tied off the opening and tossed it into a keg. :o


Edit: paging Rage Sac-

What's your timeline for brewing Belgians? What temperature and duration are your primary and sexondary fermentations? How long (if at all) do you age the bottle or kegs before drinking?

tesilential fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 4, 2011

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Went to my local homebrew club meeting for the first time in a while, they seem to be taking a stab at making things more organized which was great. We broke off for tasting groups with at least one person who actually knew how to judge beer and I got some nice feedback on my recent pilsner ("brew this again" and "enter it in competitions" was nice to hear!) and some of the other beers were freaking awesome. In particular a braggot brewed with just extract, honey and some blackberries. Came on like a mead then took a sharp turn toward kind of an Irish Red beer in the finish, really interesting and I'd love to try something like that myself. It was like the best of mead and beer in one glass.

It was back at New Belgium brewery this month and once again they were absurdly generous with their leftover ingredients. I came home with like 1lb each of Citra, Sorachi Ace and Tettnang pellets and a whopping 3lbs of Amarillo :catstare: Haven't done the math but uh they must have given away over $1k in ingredients tonight (at homebrew shop prices, not "giant brewery wholesale prices" but still). Can never say enough about New Belgium's generosity and how great their staff is.

Finally, we're tasting the club project beer aging in an old La Folie barrel in a couple weeks. It probably needs more time since it's only been 6 months, but it'll be exciting to see what's happened.. The base beer was a very nice dubbel and I contributed a batch so I get 5 gallons of the finished product.

If you have a club in your area, go hang out for a few meetings and see if you like it. It may not work out, but it might also be totally awesome. Getting feedback beyond your girlfriend saying "oh that's great honey" is invaluable.

mattdev
Sep 30, 2004

Gentlemen of taste, refinement, luxury.

Women want us, men want to be us.
For those brewing lagers, how many of you use Narziss lagering over the traditional diacetyl rest? I've tried the Narziss one a couple times but I've always found it to be slightly more buttery than the traditional style, which is clean and crisp. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

digitalhifi
Jun 5, 2004
In life I have encountered much, but nothing as profound as the statement "all we ever do is do stuff."
^^I saw "Nazi Lager" instead of "Narziss Lager". "How many of you use Nazi lagering?"

Sorry, anyway I haven't tried this method, but it looks like a very good method. What way were you using before? Were you pitching cold or warm?

Dolemite
Jun 30, 2005
I haven't brewed in forever and as such, haven't been reading this thread too much.

Things are finally settling down with the baby duties and I'm going to be coming into spending cash for ingredients to brew and possibly for buying a kegging system!

But, that has me thinking: I don't have a fridge I could store the keg in. I could buy a fridge since we live in a house and I'd have the space. But, there's no electrical outlet to plug it in anywhere I could put it. :(

In my case though, I don't care as much about being able to serve beer from the keg. In fact, the main reason why I want the kegging setup is so I can carb the beer in a day or two instead of two weeks. I was then thinking I'd buy a pressure filler to bottle from the keg once the beer is carbed.

That got me thinking: If I don't care about serving from the keg, then why does the keg need to be refrigerated? Is there any reason why I can't just leave the keg in a dark area and let it carb the beer? Then, just bottle it and place the bottles in the fridge when I want to drink them.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Kegging is awesome!

That said a room temp you will turn the gas WAY up to rapid force carbonate. You'll end up using and wasting more co2 as you will have to vent the headspace in order to bottle, plus the higher pressure requires a higher volume of gas.

Keep an eye out on CL for a used chest freezer. Youll need a temperature controller as well, which will have an extension cord to reach an outlet (hopefully).

rage-saq
Mar 21, 2001

Thats so ninja...

tesilential posted:

Edit: paging Rage Sac-

What's your timeline for brewing Belgians? What temperature and duration are your primary and sexondary fermentations? How long (if at all) do you age the bottle or kegs before drinking?

With Belgians the time, temperature and maturation (aging) cycles largely depends on the yeast, but to a lesser but still significant degree the style.

Two examples.

My Belgian Pale ale is about 6-6.5% and done with either the Duvel (WLP570), Allagash (bottle culture) or De Konick (WLP515) yeast.
I go from brewday to having it on draft in about 2 weeks. Its not a complex style or particularly strong, and the yeast pretty much knock it out in a few days, add a few days for the yeast to do a little cleanup, cold crash and then its kegged and on tap.
Most of these yeasts work out pretty good at 74f until it finishes which is what I usually stick to for this style.

My quad is ~10% and done with the Westmalle yeast. This is a totally different animal. I go for 78-80f for a week or two (forced heat if necessary) until it hits final gravity, then I let it cool down to about 65f for another week or two, before a 2 day cold crash and going to a co2 purged keg.
Top it up with co2 and then stick it in the fermentation fridge where its going to sit in the 60s for about 2 months or until I deem it done.
This beer is a different animal partly because its a much bigger beer (alcohol and gravity wise) and the yeast flavors are much more complex and require some time and patience for it to mature.

As far as what you should do for your beers I'd recommend picking Brew Like A Monk as there are also many ways to get the yeast flavor that you want. They have numerous sections in the book that outline different strategies different brewers have towards getting what they want out of the yeast, and how those can mix in with the grain and hop flavors.

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mattdev
Sep 30, 2004

Gentlemen of taste, refinement, luxury.

Women want us, men want to be us.

digitalhifi posted:

^^I saw "Nazi Lager" instead of "Narziss Lager". "How many of you use Nazi lagering?"

Sorry, anyway I haven't tried this method, but it looks like a very good method. What way were you using before? Were you pitching cold or warm?

I've always pitched cold. Pitch at 45, let it naturally rise to 50 and hold it there for the remainder of fermentation.

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