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oneliquidninja posted:Iron Flesh trivializes most of Dark Souls. They're nerfing the poo poo out of Iron Flesh in both DR and duration, and really, at least it has a downside for all that damage reduction. Remember Tower Knight's Warding in demon souls? 70% Damage reduction for 60 seconds, from the second (and second easiest) boss in the game, at no penalty to the caster other than a short initial cast time. Iron Flesh forces you to move at the speed of bricks, doesn't last a whole minute and is going to be nerfed soon.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:34
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oneliquidninja posted:The only one of the four lords that was remotely hard was Bed of Chaos and that was only because of the learning curve on the fight.[/spoiler] I felt that fight was trivially difficult, compared to my experience in its equivalent bossfight in Demon's Souls. The arena is wide open and the boss's attacks can be shield-blocked to some degree, versus having to dash through a rabbit hole or get either entirely blasted to death or nearly killed while having to clear obstructions.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:34
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DarkArchimedes posted:Firstly, I respect where you're coming from, but I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. I've dropped about 130 hours into Dark Souls at this point, gotten the platinum trophy, dicked with multiple different builds, etc. What I focus on is where I personally feel the game has design problems. If you disagree with me, that's cool, but please don't phrase this stuff like I'm some ignorant kid who doesn't know what I'm missing. It's insulting. quote:I actually find the fact that you can run up and face smash so many bosses to be bad design, and find that it only serves to highlight the dependency on punishing ranged damage . It's much less rewarding to realize I can just stand under Sif and stab him with near impunity, or that all I really need to do with Priscilla is look at her feet and not stand in front of her while I start slashing away. I've never even seen anything Pinwheel does aside from cloning itself because he always dies so fast. Now, some of the second half bosses are way too easy, notably Seath and Nito. But when you think about it, it's not like some of the Archdemons weren't piss-easy either (Storm King? Dragon God?). So it's easier to melee. That has drawbacks too, though. And at least this time it's actually a choice. The most punished build is probably bows, it's pretty tough to get a shot off in Dark Souls by comparison to Demon's Souls. But I think it's overall more fair, and more things are viable, although certainly you could argue some of them hit way too hard. But I'd still argue Demon's Souls bosses are easier overall, especially when factoring in all possible options (as that includes a bunch of cheese). Dark Souls bosses can also be cheesed, but it's a little riskier.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:39
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doomfunk posted:I felt that fight was trivially difficult, compared to my experience in its equivalent bossfight in Demon's Souls. The arena is wide open and the boss's attacks can be shield-blocked to some degree, versus having to dash through a rabbit hole or get either entirely blasted to death or nearly killed while having to clear obstructions. I hope you realize Dragon God was designed to be a mercy killing as another warrior already did all the work and just got unlucky. The bed of chaos, however, was also pretty easy, except the part where its arms will "accidentally" knock you off during recovery animations, and the hardest part is when this happens three times in a row and you have to get a new screen. quote:And Adjudicator is easy if you hug him, and the Armor Spider and Flamelurker have trap/blind spots, and Dragon God can't even hit you after the first spear, and Garl will do nothing if you snipe Astraea, and you can zone the Tower Knight so he can't possibly harm you, the Old Hero is completely blind and will do nothing as long as you don't provoke him to charge you, and the Dark Silver Shield trivializes Fool's Idol, etc. etc. etc. The predecessor hardly lacked for glaring flaws in boss patterns that made them absurdly easy. And that's not even counting being able to poison Flamelurker and Allant to death as they stand perfectly still or shoot one of the Maneaters through the fog door. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 03:40
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oneliquidninja posted:Iron Flesh trivializes most of Dark Souls. Nito is the easiest fight in the game, even easier than Pinwheel. Four Kings is also easy, as you can still constantly attack even if they hit you; no poise needed. In my experience though, even with Iron Flesh, Seath's breath attack shot straight through unless you had decent curse-resist gear. I ended up having to stop using Iron Flesh, and running behind when I knew he'd use his 180 breath. Hardest fight I ever had (aside from O+S) was Bed of Chaos, simply because if you didn't lure his double swipe attack, he would instantly kill you, and even if you did, the bit you were supposed to jump on to was obscured, so you'd always jump on to what you assumed was the path, only to find it curved more than you realised. Kinda ironic that his two "wings" aren't remotely relevant.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:40
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Rough Lobster posted:Can someone explain how to do the dragon head souls dupe thing? That video of the guy toying around with the greatbow makes me really want to buy a fuckton of arrows for it and upgrade it. I'm on the 360. Turn your head into a stupid looking dragon. Put the item you want to dupe into the item slot directly after the dragon head stone. This will consume the whole stack, so if you don't want that to happen, be sure to drop all but one. Put on a stamina regeneration item, like the ring or shield. This isn't necessary, but if you don't do this you can only use your item a shitload of times rather than an infinite amount of times. Have your dragon head stone selected. Face away from the camera. Tap x to activate the stone, then very, very quickly press down on the stick to turn around, and press down on the pad to switch to your dupe item. You want to press x first, then simultaneously press the other two. You do not hold any of these. Just tap them. Very quickly press and hold x after you've turned around. You should be doing the firebreathing animation, but no fire should come out. Instead, your item should continue to be used as long as you hold x. It may take quite a lot of tries to get the timing down. The first 3 actions all need to be extremely close together, and the final x press needs to be slightly afterwards. But only very, very slightly.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:46
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IconicIronic posted:Nito is the easiest fight in the game, even easier than Pinwheel. Four Kings is also easy, as you can still constantly attack even if they hit you; no poise needed. In my experience though, even with Iron Flesh, Seath's breath attack shot straight through unless you had decent curse-resist gear. I ended up having to stop using Iron Flesh, and running behind when I knew he'd use his 180 breath. Yeah, I didn't use Iron Flesh on Seath. But it seemed to me like the boss fights in Dark ammounted to either hug it and swing away or Iron Flesh and swing away. Seath being the former. There's exceptions of course but to many bosses in Dark have huge blind spots or are just to vulnerable to the tank and spank approach (and yes I know Iron Flesh is getting nerfed). Even knowing the strategy in Demon's Souls wasn't always enough. Assuming you didn't want to fog door cheese manhunter that fight could be hit or miss even if you hid behind the pillar. Going melee on Tower Knight was funner (imo) then any fight in Dark Souls and way more interesting too. I'm not saying every boss fight in Demon's Souls was grade A but a lot of them were heads and shoulders above 99% of video game boss fights period. Dark Souls was just mediocre. Even Adjudacator was a more interesting fight then anything in Dark Souls and that was a relatively easy one. Big guy, cramped quarters, two spots he's vulnerable and two viable approaches both with their own strengths and short comings. Then again, maybe my opinion is biased. I did a lot more co-op in Dark so it may have trivialized a lot of things. But the last half of the game I didn't feel the need to co-op because the fights just didn't have enough of a learning curve to justify calling in back up.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:50
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rivera82falcon posted:I did pick up the lightning spear. As far as making weapons...haven't done that as I don't know where the catacombs is and didn't realize it can be done soon. I'm a noob at this game but i'm loving it. You should be able to reinforce the lightning spear right now if you bought the blacksmith kit from the parish blacksmith, or you could wait, without spoiling too much there is a really good blacksmith not too far ahead of where you are. Either way, you should probably think about upgrading a few non unique weapons you like the moveset of to at least +5, and maybe one or two to +10. Provided you have enough shards that is. Out of curiosity, how much damage are you getting out of the drake sword in Anor Londo? Rough Lobster posted:Can someone explain how to do the dragon head souls dupe thing? That video of the guy toying around with the greatbow makes me really want to buy a fuckton of arrows for it and upgrade it. I'm on the 360. In addition to what Vargs said, practice with Estus first. That way you won't gently caress yourself out of any items you actually want while you learn the timing.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:51
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Vargs posted:Turn your head into a stupid looking dragon. Thanks man, it was hard finding a succinct description online. They were all either for playstation or just written really poorly. poo poo, now I kinda want to make an archer gimmick character. I cool buy the max amount of every type of arrow, max out all the proper bows, and cheat my way to an insane dex level and destroy things from afar.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:55
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It's kinda funny to jump from about page 60 or so to here, considering there was a lot of talk about how the bosses are unfair and such, now it seems that the bosses are too easy. Just kinda funny.
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Nov 5, 2011 03:55
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Locomotive breath posted:It's kinda funny to jump from about page 60 or so to here, considering there was a lot of talk about how the bosses are unfair and such, now it seems that the bosses are too easy. Just kinda funny. Because now there are spreadsheets and "best builds" and "iron flesh makes every boss trivial." Demon souls was the same thing. My first time playing the game I was crying. My second time playing the game I was wondering what was so hard the first time. My third time I used magic and I got hit maybe two dozen times the entire run and died once, I didn't even finish it. I beat everything minus world 5 and 1-3/1-4, I was so loving bored of how easy it was. I really wondered why anyone would want to cheese the game like that. It has one of the best melee systems ever and people want to shoot laser beams. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 03:56
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oneliquidninja posted:Dark Souls bosses, Demon's Souls bosses I'd chalk it up to overcorrection, myself.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:01
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I'm really split on which game I prefer. Both games have their easy bosses depending on how you handle it, but I feel that Dark souls while not being neccesarily harder, is much more frustrating. You're more fighting the areas rather than the enemies like in the Great Hollow, Blight town, Lost Izalith, Crystal cave and even Andor Londo where the hardest bit is getting knocked off a ledge. Once you figure out the areas they aren't actually difficult but there's that big room for failure, and sliding off a ledge isn't a fun way to die. I feel great conquering the game but at the end of the day I have fonder memories of Demon's Souls. Saying that Dark souls deserves massive amounts of credit for creating such a massive world, which all connects together visually. I'm still impressed that there's nearly no loading screens, and you could clear the entire world of enemies if you never died nor used a bonfire. After thinking about it I'm still not sure why I feel that Demon's Souls is better. It could be the atmosphere, level design but Dark souls does those things very well too. Maybe It's just that I never played anything like Demon's souls before, so no matter what I'll always prefer it. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 04:04
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Little tip: don't use fire arrows on the Undead Dragon in the Painted World. My system slowed to a crawl until a minute later when the fire finally subsided.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:04
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NoneSuch posted:I'm really split on which game I prefer. Don't get me wrong. I love Dark Souls. In a lot of ways I think it's a superior game to Demon's Souls. I think Dark Souls has a lot more depth in a lot of areas Demon's was lacking. Boss (and maybe zone) design being exceptions. Honestly I think the last half of the game was rushed. You can see it in zone design, boss design, and how the covenants are unfinished. Namco may have given From a deadline when they agreed to publish for them or perhaps funding/inspiration simply ran low at the end. Who knows. But the first half of the game felt way more polished and inspired then the last half. I'm not calling it an unfinished product by any means or saying I'm pissed that I got a 'half-finished' game. I just don't find the second half of the game to have the same quality level as the rest of it.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:10
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I agree with that Oneliquid. The Kiln felt as if they'd ran out of time in particular, with it being empty beyond a bunch of enemies which had became trivial 20 hours ago. Lost Izalith shares the same problem, it's like they just ran out of things to do, and just dumped those dragon legs everywhere. It feels as if the level design drops off when they move away from the twisted medieval theme. Places like Undead Burg, painted world, the depths, sen's fortress and even the tutorial area are brilliant. In the making of DVD there's a bit where the creator says he really likes that setting, and I think that's where his inspiration/passion is.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:21
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NoneSuch posted:I agree with that Oneliquid. The Kiln felt as if they'd ran out of time in particular, with it being empty beyond a bunch of enemies which had became trivial 20 hours ago. Lost Izalith shares the same problem, it's like they just ran out of things to do, and just dumped those dragon legs everywhere. Kiln was fine for the lore surrounding it. Lost Izalith... oh lord what a pit that was. Why was there nothing but dragon legs when it was supposed to be the birthing place of demons?
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Nov 5, 2011 04:31
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That's true but I still think it was lacklustre. They could of at least ganged up on you, like the Red Eye Knights did before Penetrator. The legs were truely confusing, I suppose it could be where they disposed of all the Dragons they killed? Still doesn't explain why they were only legs wandering about. To be a bit more positive, I found Darkmoon Garden to be a neat area. The basic tree enemies weren't interesting, but there was a drat ton of variety in the enemy types ranging from invisible guys, cats and crystal golemns. The Hydra is one of the cooler mini-bosses as well, makes you feel like Hercules when you hack its heads off.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:52
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I just got the Crystal Ring Shield... I really don't want them to greatly nerf this weapon. It's really fun to use and requires a lot of charge up so it shouldn't be nerf'd outside of maybe talking more durability to use.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:52
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I will never understand why they decided to fill that place up with half dragons. Also that place will forever been known as Dragon rear end Hell to me.
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Nov 5, 2011 04:59
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I will never understand why they decided to fill that place up with half dragons. Also that place will forever been known as Dragon rear end Hell to me. There is also literally no point to the valley of drakes other than Astora's sword and the clever rat's ring. It's a newbie trap.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:00
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For those of you who don't want to bother legitimately fighting Dark Sun Gwyndolin because you are a lazy shitlord like me, heres a helpful tip: 1. Get a bow (I used Pharis's Bow + Hornet Ring but I assume any bow would work just have to aim higher) 2. Get about 100 poison arrows from the female undead merchant. This is prob overkill but you may miss a lot till you get the hang of it. 3. When you cross the fog door, do not pursue! Gwyndolin will just stand there like a big dumb Dark Sun God that thinks hes soooo cool, you will fix that in a moment. 4. Equip bow, zoom in, and point your crosshair above and a tiny bit to the left of the light part of his silhouette in the distance 5. Shoot until you see a tiny flash and a faint blood splat its super hard to see but keep trying! 6. Once you confirm a hit, shoot him about 8 times until you see life draining. You wont see any damage numbers so just watch the lifebar. 7. Repeat until dead! Im guessing the bugged laser shield would do it quicker but I don't know for sure as I made the spear first!
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Nov 5, 2011 05:01
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I will never understand why they decided to fill that place up with half dragons. Also that place will forever been known as Dragon rear end Hell to me. Just to make chunk farming that much more annoying.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:02
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Bobnumerotres posted:There is also literally no point to the valley of drakes other than Astora's sword and the clever rat's ring. It's a newbie trap. Actually it's more of a convenient hub that connects the Blighttown swamp area, New Londo (which also doubles as a shortcut to Firelink Shrine) and Darkroot Garden/Lake. One that's filled with drakes, because we don't want things to be too easy do we?
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Nov 5, 2011 05:04
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Drake Valley is the most important area in the game as it allows you to almost entirely bypass Blighttown.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:08
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oneliquidninja posted:Then again, maybe my opinion is biased. I did a lot more co-op in Dark so it may have trivialized a lot of things. But the last half of the game I didn't feel the need to co-op because the fights just didn't have enough of a learning curve to justify calling in back up. And in that sense, my opinion is biased, as I'm European and we got Demon's Souls a year or so later than everyone else. Which made it easier to come across helpful in-game player messages, but also left us susceptible to trolling messages and the internet being fairly dated and useless. Whereas, with Dark Souls, every country was as stumped as the next guy, as it had to, essentially, be worked out by the individual player. Having to learn Capra Demon/Queelag/Gaping Dragon on your own is so much more thrilling, and you often get to a point where you've learnt so much that can ace each boss on rerolls or NG+, both of which I did. Or even to the point that you fight O+S so much, that Smough first and Ornstein second is actually easier, to the individual player. IconicIronic fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 05:10
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Jetpack Postman posted:Actually it's more of a convenient hub that connects the Blighttown swamp area, New Londo (which also doubles as a shortcut to Firelink Shrine) and Darkroot Garden/Lake. One that's filled with drakes, because we don't want things to be too easy do we? Yeah, you can pretty much skip all of Blighttown and run to the important areas thanks to that little shortcut. I don't even really bother with that whole area anymore.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:18
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oneliquidninja posted:Don't get me wrong. I love Dark Souls. In a lot of ways I think it's a superior game to Demon's Souls. I think Dark Souls has a lot more depth in a lot of areas Demon's was lacking. I'd agree on the Covenants, but I'm more dubious on the bosses - I think a lot of them suffer from the same design issue bosses in World of Warcraft do, which is that there's only so many variations you can do. Most people who play Dark Souls came from Demons Souls, which means that they already know a whole heap of tactics to try. Given the control scheme is entirely unchanged, that means that the ways to kill something remain limited, and since bosses need to be doable, it means that odds are there has to be some mechanical overlap. To me the interesting question would be 'Have a bunch of people who've never played either, assign them to each game randomly, have them beat both, and see which game is rated as harder'.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:34
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the resistance buff you get from humanity tops out at 60 (I think,I'm real loving tired and had a bunch drop in a single run and used all of them without paying close attention to my stats. So the difference for my sl 30 resistance 11 dude between 0 humanity and 60+ humanity is 55 physical def without and 124 physical def with. A bonus of 69 points of defense, about equivalent to an extra piece of decent armour. I had no idea it made quite that much of a difference. Edit: Whoops, ignore me, I really am tired. Had a few more drop, up to 127 now at 67 humanity, it just slows down around 60 and stops giving a guaranteed extra point every humanity Woozey fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Nov 5, 2011 |
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Nov 5, 2011 05:40
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Dexanth posted:I'd agree on the Covenants, but I'm more dubious on the bosses - I think a lot of them suffer from the same design issue bosses in World of Warcraft do, which is that there's only so many variations you can do. This is one of the reasons why O+S is one of my favorite bosses in the game. There were the Gargoyles and the Maneaters before for double bosses, but not really any where you have 2 enemies with completely different fighting styles. It can get frustrating trying to find your opening to attack sometimes, but I think the room design and the different speeds they travel at alleviate that a lot. It's just a really tense fight, and it feels like the odds are against you, but if you use every advantage you can get, you can make it.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:44
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lohli posted:One person whined, let us know when you're streaming. Yeah Wasp, f that guy. Your stream's a great way to kill time while I wait to summon / be summoned. God knows there's more than enough of that going on... Hey, speaking of co-op, how is it possible that so many people are so god-awful at fighting Gaping Dragon? It's simple: everyone back off, he charges someone, they dodge, we all rush in and commence the chopping and tenderizing of his posterior region until he straightens up again. Repeat until dead. It only takes just a few minutes, less if it gets stuck in that loop of ramming its head into the wall. It's cheap, it's cowardly, it's not too flashy, and it works every. single. time. See how the rest of us are standing waaaay back waiting for you to get the idea? This whole "jumping around in its face and getting in one hit every minute or so" thing? It didn't work for Solaire, it didn't work for you last time, and it's not going to-- and you're dead. Again. Hey, maybe you can take this time to go kill that Channeler now, hmm? Five fights in a row now tonight. Five. I just want some souls and Sunbro cred, dammit!
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Nov 5, 2011 05:47
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I think some people have it twisted with regard to the plot: -pretty sure that Kaathe is in favor of the Undead curse and the darksign and the Dark Soul. He is pro-dark. Like that's how he sees humanity throwing off the yoke of the giants/gods; the stronger undead (like you) become immortal magic supermen by preying on the weaker ones. That is specifically what he teaches you how to do. -but if you go the other route and link the fire, you're staving off the darkness and the curse, at least temporarily, like Gwyn did. The downsides are a) now you have all the power and lord souls and poo poo and there is no guarantee you're going to be more responsible with them than he was and b) presumably you'll burn out someday, the same way he did. So it's not really good vs evil in that sense.
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Nov 5, 2011 05:50
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Digger-254 posted:Hey, speaking of co-op, how is it possible that so many people are so god-awful at fighting Gaping Dragon? I'm still messing around on my first playthrough, but helping out on Gaping Dragon has become my favorite past time. Such an easy payout for so little work. Honestly, I think the earlier fights are harder. I thought I was gonna be a pvp guy, but helping people out is way more fun to me. Also, screw Blighttown. It's like Mines of Moria with lag, and no Gandalf yelling cool poo poo at a Balrog.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:04
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Make a new character and skip gaping dragon yourself, then hang around while waiting to get summoned in human form. You'll get gaping dragon action, and there's enough people down there trolling newbies with invasions that you should get enough pvp to keep you interested.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:11
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Woozey posted:Make a new character and skip gaping dragon yourself, then hang around while waiting to get summoned in human form. You'll get gaping dragon action, and there's enough people down there trolling newbies with invasions that you should get enough pvp to keep you interested. Ah crap. I thought I was doing that but just remembered I beat him earlier. Ugh, it's either this or Blighttown again, then... ...ehhhhh I think I'll stick around here a little while longer.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:17
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waspinator posted:I still stream all the time, I just haven't been posting my link here since some people didn't wanna see it. Yea, i like when you update in the thread on when you are streaming. This thread is mostly the same fifty or so questions repeated over and over again so I don't see what the big deal is. Only reason I read it anymore is to see if you are streaming or if there's any patch news.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:26
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Woozey posted:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the resistance buff you get from humanity tops out at 60 (I think,I'm real loving tired and had a bunch drop in a single run and used all of them without paying close attention to my stats. According to the wiki humanity counts as soul level for determining defenses. So if you're sl 30 and have 60 humanity you have the same base character resists as a sl 90 guy. Which also has diminishing returns at about that level. As to skipping gaping dragon. I'm thinking of skipping that and undead burg on my next play through so I can gravelord those two areas. The sewers would be a perfect zone so I could infect worlds and farm more stones at the same time. First I'll probably go Sun Bro though for lightning spears, they suck for PvP but it's fun using them on bosses... unless I change my mind and break away from the faith build. Greater Magic Barrier is tempting but so is Greatshield of Artorias and staying low level.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:33
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Rough Lobster posted:Thanks man, it was hard finding a succinct description online. They were all either for playstation or just written really poorly. poo poo, now I kinda want to make an archer gimmick character. I cool buy the max amount of every type of arrow, max out all the proper bows, and cheat my way to an insane dex level and destroy things from afar.
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Nov 5, 2011 06:35
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I did it! Watching the credits finish up right now, I'm so happy
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Nov 5, 2011 07:00
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Paper Diamonds posted:I did it! Praise the Sun!
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Nov 5, 2011 07:09
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