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Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

Luckily it's not what the waves look like that we're interested in.

And you can't get a perfect square wave in the analog domain, it's not possible through any method. It would require infinite power in at least one part of the system for an instant.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Socket Ryanist posted:

Luckily it's not what the waves look like that we're interested in.
Try to tell that the people, that judge audio compression techniques by looking at what remains (Original minus Decompressed) and how the spectrum looks like, instead of just listening to it. I'm sure there's a decently large cross-section with the audiophile bunch. :v:

Socket Ryanist
Aug 30, 2004

It's actually provable that a perfect square wave isn't possible: If two terminals supposedly have a voltage that's a perfect square wave, then if you connect a capacitor across them, it will have infinite current running through it at the point where it flips from + to -

Fuzz1111
Mar 17, 2001

Sorry. I couldn't find anyone to make you a cool cipher-themed avatar, and the look on this guy's face cracks me the fuck up.

Combat Pretzel posted:

Try to tell that the people, that judge audio compression techniques by looking at what remains (Original minus Decompressed) and how the spectrum looks like, instead of just listening to it. I'm sure there's a decently large cross-section with the audiophile bunch. :v:
Doubt it, the former group relies on objectively measuring differences (then mis-using the results), the latter seems to reject the idea of making those kinds of measurements in the first place (ie: "DBT-Free Forum" on Head-Fi).

In my opinion a lot of this idiocy (and those profiting from it) stems from the simple mentality of "more expensive must be better" which some people apply when they don't understand (or feel it's beyond their capability to understand) how to make an objective comparison. I know one guy who has a Monster HDMI cable that he payed over $100 for, he's definitely not someone who can afford to be throwing that kind of money down the drain and I'm pretty sure he was just trying to get the best out of his new TV when he decided against buying the $15 alternative. Take someone with more cash and wasting thousands instead of hundreds in a misguided attempt to get the best becomes a possibility.

In addition I think a lot of them (especially the forum posting sort) just want to brag about how expensive their system is, and at the ridiculous end of the scale it pretty much requires buying bullshit because there are no cables that actually deliver tens of thousands of dollars worth of improvement.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Out of boredom, I was googling for my company, who produces cables. I stumbled onto posts of the head-fi forum. There's a lot of poo poo going on, but this one took the cake for now (I guess I should be proud, tho):

quote:

A little more listening in, in my bedroom system and main system. Definitely a nice cord! Not just for the money, but overall.

I placed several cords around my main system to try these out there. That system consists of (digital front end listed only):

- Eastsound CD-E5
- Belles 250i integrated
- Eminent Tech LFT-16 speakers
- PS Audio GCHA headphone amp, Sennheiser 650 w/RnB cable
- Oritek X-2 (E5 to integrated) and X-1 (tape out to GCHA)
- Oritek S-1 speaker cables
- All line components plug into a power strip attached to a Foundation Research LC-1
- Amp plugs into a power strip with a Triphaser AC unit
- AC Cords: PS Audio Xtreme Prelude (Belles amp), Eichmann eXpress v1 (CD), and Silver Raincoat (GCHA)

In the end, I tried the Eupen cord on the CD player and headphone amp (I also put it on my phono stage, but didn't do enough serious listening on it). Compared tot he Silver Raincoat (which is well burnt in), it was deeper in bass, more focused in the bass and mids, had a larger soundstage and had a quieter background. Without a doubt better, almost across the board!

Then swapped the Eichmann with the Eupen. Definitely blacker background, but the soundstage size shrunk in a bit. Tonally, fairly similar sound to Eichmann, though the Eichmann MAY have better bass. Nice focus of voice within the soundstage.

So even though the Eichmann is a little noisier than the Eupen, I still prefer the overall "largeness" of sound with it. But the Eupen has beat out another "hi fi" lower price cord in the Silver Raincoat. I had thought the SR was pretty good after it was in the system a while. But it's there no more....

I think the one place the Eupen might have a weakness is in overall speed.(what does that even mean?!) I get the sense it loses out to some of my favorite cords from the past, especially the TG Audio SLVR (which is a $500 list cord), and some of the other TG line. I also know that I should replace my PS Audio as well!

But still, I'm impressed at the blackness, imaging & focus, and control of these cables.
He's talking about power cables. I know how one of the two cables in question is produced. Epic kludging involved.

:suicide:

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 7, 2011

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

Combat Pretzel posted:

I think the one place the Eupen might have a weakness is in overall speed.

:suicide:

Does your cable have stripes or stickers on them? If not that's probably it.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009
http://www.ethanwiner.com/believe.html

Show this to your nearest audiophile for a wonderfully clumsy attempt at dismissal.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

longview posted:

Does your cable have stripes or stickers on them? If not that's probably it.
We should start to sell tiny spoilers to put on the plugs.

longview
Dec 25, 2006

heh.

Combat Pretzel posted:

We should start to sell tiny spoilers to put on the plugs.

Is there a way to put spinning rims on a cable?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
On a cable reel maybe.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
You should paint go faster stripes on your cables. Improves velocity factor, but only if you have aerodynamic plugs too.

Penguissimo
Apr 7, 2007

WanderingKid posted:

You should paint go faster stripes on your cables. Improves velocity factor, but only if you have aerodynamic plugs too.

You just have to make sure to use amagnetic paint, or cosmic rays will be attracted to the cable and end up causing jitter.

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.
Read the quote below:

The Cynosure v2 is a statement on ultimate cable design. The ultimate realization of my cable construction philosophy using a core of my custom manufactured braid of my customer ultra pure CFDCT-UP-OCC-Ag conductors. This new wire is a great step up from my previous efforts, and allow the "sould" of the original Cynosure to stay intact, while allowing the cable to be even more quiet than before, and reveal even more inner details. As in the previous version, I surround the core with multiple layers (how many=proprietary) of damping and shielding. The layers consist of cotton, carbon fiber, Teflon, Mylar, Nylon, silver plated copper braid, and many more materials that I will not reveal. All Cynosure's are hand built, burned in, and evaluated in one of my reference systems, by me personally.

It all starts with raw materials, I have a vendor partner who I have have taught (and wasted more money than I want to think about teaching them) to make my wire exactly like I want it made, and exactly to my specs, which I then treat with my CryoFreeze™ process as soon as I receive it. So, the raw materials are without peer.

I then braid this masterpiece of a wire into a proprietary braid so that the conductors are evenly spaced, and arranged in the configuration I want them to be.

Starting at $3549 for 3FT.


Then click this link.

Edit: Oh, and here's the return policy:

Trial Policy: Any custom Locus Design cable may be returned within 30 days for a refund, if for some odd reason it does not perform as expected in your system. A 20% restocking fee (of the the total price) will be charged and any shipping charges incurred will be the responsibility of the buyer. In order to be eligible for return, the cable must be in 'new' condition (this condition will be evaluated by myself, ie., I will be the judge), returned within 30 days and have a valid RMA attached to the packaging.

A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Dec 2, 2011

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
The entire thing reads like a Smoove B article.

"There will also be corn served."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/turn-the-lights-down-low,16374/

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Waldo P Barnstormer posted:

Read the quote below:

The Cynosure v2
The thing with these cables is, they're too loving expensive to dismantle. Of the very few audiophiles that'll buy a poo poo cable like this, rarely anyone is going to take it apart and see what's under that heat shrink tube and braiding. Probably some cheap rear end Best Buy cable.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
The creepy Dewey Cox looking dude on the company page's beard would make a larger difference to the sound than these cables.

Twiin
Nov 11, 2003

King of Suck!

Combat Pretzel posted:

The thing with these cables is, they're too loving expensive to dismantle. Of the very few audiophiles that'll buy a poo poo cable like this, rarely anyone is going to take it apart and see what's under that heat shrink tube and braiding. Probably some cheap rear end Best Buy cable.

Occasionally one gets torn apart by someone's cat and there's a shocking(!) autopsy. But mostly you're right.

pgroce
Oct 24, 2002

Twiin posted:

Occasionally one gets torn apart by someone's cat and there's a shocking(!) autopsy. But mostly you're right.

These people have cats? Don't they know how they change the acoustics?

I mean, sure, staple a dead one in the corner as a baffle in a pinch, but running around randomly absorbing sound? Not in my listening room.

And that's before you even get to their inductance.

Sunesis
Apr 17, 2003

RANPHA IS MAD LOL
It takes cats to expose the stupidity of audiophiles.

Willeh
Jun 25, 2003

God hates a coward

A local audio "company" has produced this abortion of a product and is supposedly getting rave reviews from the audiophile community:



Can we make it a rule that whatever sites posts a positive review of crap like this that they automatically get discredited or something? It's just some rice paper, shoe laces & some iron filings or whatever.

They even tell you how to store the things, and to never use tape on it or other non-organic ways of fastening it in the handy dandy installation manual

http://www.referencetweaks.com/products.htm

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Since their high-tech AC power cables are supposedly shielded like gently caress, how do they explain that rice paper having any effect at all? These people are so gullible.

Gram-O-Phone
Mar 9, 2007

Oh, play that thing!

Willeh posted:

A local audio "company" has produced this abortion of a product and is supposedly getting rave reviews from the audiophile community:



Can we make it a rule that whatever sites posts a positive review of crap like this that they automatically get discredited or something? It's just some rice paper, shoe laces & some iron filings or whatever.

They even tell you how to store the things, and to never use tape on it or other non-organic ways of fastening it in the handy dandy installation manual

http://www.referencetweaks.com/products.htm

Those can't possibly be any good. They're not cryogenically treated, and they're the wrong colour.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Gram-O-Phone posted:

Those can't possibly be any good. They're not cryogenically treated, and they're the wrong colour.

White cotton is neutral. Colours wraps add colouration to the sound.

Fatal
Jul 29, 2004

I'm gunna kill you BITCH!!!
That poo poo is going to start a fire in some poor (rich) saps audio gear.

Willeh
Jun 25, 2003

God hates a coward

Fatal posted:

That poo poo is going to start a fire in some poor (rich) saps audio gear.

You're right, so this product is irresponsible as well as loving stupid!

They even sell a version you can install on the fuses in your house wiring, the mind boggles.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
They need to make edible versions of those rice paper wraps so I can rebalance my tongue on the sub molecular level and take my kobe beef cuisine to the next level. Advantage: its not a firehazard after you've eaten it.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Grimey Drawer
I did the poor mans version with toiletaudio paper and rubberbandsaudio stretchers. +++ would tweak again.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

What I find really depressing is how a poster on an 'audiophile' forum may post something that seems pretty smart, actually, but it only takes one other post to reveal that he's actually completely brainless:



(It only gets worse from there...)

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
I don't know if that forum is real or what but hot drat, post a link. Looks like a riot fun party over there.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

WanderingKid posted:

I don't know if that forum is real or what but hot drat, post a link. Looks like a riot fun party over there.

It's vinylengine. Please note I added the pictures to illustrate my point. (The top and bottom is an actor and the middle one is a result of GISing 'rapist'.)

It does have rather amusing characters, though (I'm assuming this is a troll, of course):

3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Dec 31, 2011

Ron Burgundy
Dec 24, 2005
This burrito is delicious, but it is filling.
Vinyl Engine's forums just like this one have posts that range from ludicrous to genuinely helpful. Don't dismiss all it's advice entirely because of the few psychos on there.

WanderingKid
Feb 27, 2005

lives here...
I guess the point is that you can't trust the validity of any of the information because the ratio of right to wrong is such that you are better off fishing for opinions and then guessing at the correct answer your own self using applied logic.

Gearslutz is like this. There are real pros on that forum and technology insiders like Paul Frindle and Dan Lavry and they are pretty good at explaining the concepts behind digital audio as far as it is possible to do so without math. But for every Paul Frindle theres a hundred posters that are exhibitions of the Dunning Kruger effect. You have to carefully parse everything that is said for factual errors, formal errors and cognitive biases, which is exhausting.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
At some point, you might start getting dragged into their rabbit hole. If you're confronted with so much bullshit, the lesser bullshit may start to seem plausible to you.

Ron Burgundy
Dec 24, 2005
This burrito is delicious, but it is filling.

Combat Pretzel posted:

At some point, you might start getting dragged into their rabbit hole.

It was the moment I found myself looking for a Garrard 301 on eBay that I knew they'd gotten to me.

HATE TROLL TIM
Dec 14, 2006
I want to start a forum where we ONLY allow DBT.

I swear, we're like Audiophile Atheists.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Exists already. Hydrogen Audio forums. It's kinda annoying, too. Even if you're just expressing a subjective preference over something non-technical, there's still always someone going "Auauagh! RULE 8!!!" or whatever number it is.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

The Technics vs. Everything Else Wars going on at vinylengine (and I assume other forums) are worse than the Commodore vs. Sinclair Spectrum wars I remember. I should just stop reading the forums and stick to what's good (the cartridge database and turntable manual selection).

Ron Burgundy
Dec 24, 2005
This burrito is delicious, but it is filling.
The vast majority of the anti-Technics posts are from serial threadshitter and professional troll bastlnut.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Ron Burgundy posted:

The vast majority of the anti-Technics posts are from serial threadshitter and professional troll bastlnut.

There is a lot of Technics hate even outside the Internet. Also, it's basically impossible to tell who is a troll and who is being completely serious on an audiophile forum. Bastlnut sure does seem to like to start wars on purpose though. (Or maybe you meant you know him? :crossarms:)

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Mister Kingdom
Dec 14, 2005

And the tears that fall
On the city wall
Will fade away
With the rays of morning light

Jerry Cotton posted:

There is a lot of Technics hate even outside the Internet. Also, it's basically impossible to tell who is a troll and who is being completely serious on an audiophile forum. Bastlnut sure does seem to like to start wars on purpose though. (Or maybe you meant you know him? :crossarms:)

I'm no audiophile by any means and I do have a Technics turntable, but I am curious: why do the Technics haters hate?

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