|
 Kinda want to build a homage now.
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
I'm sorting through the wave of stuff in the Japanese press to try and get some driving impressions translated, but I found an article where the chief engineer talked about the car at a press conference yesterday. He says that the reason they were able to develop the car in the first place was that they knew it wasn't going to have AWD, a high-powered turbo engine, or high-grip tires. He emphasizes that it's a sports car that anyone can enjoy and that by bringing the price and performance up too high, they'd have to equip it with a lot more electric overrides. He says that they focused more on how the driver would enjoy the direct feeling of the car than trying to make specific performance numbers. I imagine the least charitable interpretation of this would be that he's compensating for lax performance numbers, but I don't get the impression that they ever intended this car to be a fire-breathing beast. I think it'll have a better time in its domestic market as a lot of people in Japan will be happy to pick up a sleek, well-handling domestic coupe. Compared to the US, traffic is much denser, the roads are windier, and highways are generally tolled and slower than American interstates. The Mustang is an expensive import and the Genesis Coupe isn't even available for sale. It's not that it's guaranteed success or anything, but sometimes in the US we don't really consider a car's domestic market when we see it come stateside and wonder why it exists. To use another example, the Hyundai Equus seems anachronistic in the US but in South Korea it's the highest-end domestic sedan available. A lot of people prefer to go domestic, especially when they feel like their options are about as good as the best imported cars in whatever segment they're looking at.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 19:23
|
|
|
Mr. Pither posted:I imagine the least charitable interpretation of this would be that he's compensating for lax performance numbers, but I don't get the impression that they ever intended this car to be a fire-breathing beast. Another way to look at it is that none of the underlying componentry is specced to deal with more power than it currently has, which would certainly help with prices. In the NA Miata, they certainly did a lot of bin-raiding, but the end product has turned out to be robust enough to take on power adders. Hopefully it'll be the same with the 86. If the cited figure of 2662 lbs is real, and they did it with basic materials, that'd be an engineering coup, too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 19:30
|
|
|
A5H posted:
needs popups 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 20:08
|
|
|
This is the best article so far about the GT86: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/11/finally-ttac-gets-its-hands-on-the-ft86-and-its-chief-engineer/#comments “Mr. Toyoda almost continuously participated in the development of this car. Not as President, but as a test driver. Usually, when they say that the president of a company is test driving a prototype car, then it is mostly ceremonial. Mr. Toyoda’s participation was not simply ceremonial. He was a serious test driver and had some pretty tough comments. In some phases of the development. he said: “If that is the best you can do, why not quit now.” One by one, we overcame these problems.” “When Naruse-san was still alive, he participated in the tests many time and gave us some quite harsh comments, like: ‘This is a miserable car. You are doing very poorly.’ We tested this car at the Nürburgring. Naruse-san died very close to the Nürburgring, and each time we testdrove the car later, we made sure to pass by the memorial of Naruse-san. We tried to keep Naruse-san’s spirit alive.”
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 21:13
|
|
|
DEUCE SLUICE posted:needs popups god yes
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 21:30
|
|
|
Muffinpox posted:I wonder if the scion model will get a TRD supercharger option? 12.5:1 stock compression, i don't think it will take much boost. quote:Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. I hope he's not suggesting it will break easily!
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 21:45
|
|
|
A5H posted:Kinda want to build a homage now. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 21:57
|
|
|
hedge posted:Me too. YES! Now we need a Yellow Hat one and we can do the coolest race.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 22:00
|
|
|
All this retro cool is lost on the cynical Scion branding. I'm sure the aftermarket powers that be are putting together an "86" badge kit to replace whatever BS name Scion comes up with. The suits in Toyota HQ will be flummoxed when they find out the most popular mod in America for their highly customizable sportscar is a set of 86 badges. smooth jazz fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 27, 2011 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 22:39
|
|
|
Powershift posted:Also, it's a notchback, not a hatchback, meaning the trunk opening is going to be as comically small as the camaro's.  Looks fairly normal to me. It's a Toyota after all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 22:58
|
|
|
Ingraman posted:
I guess I am in the minority here where I don't think this car needs a turbo. Maybe some more aggressive cams, but if I owned one of these I'd keep it atmo. Gets too expensive fuel and insurance wise to keep an aftermarket turbo'd car.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 23:04
|
|
|
You Am I posted:Sounds like he was going Steve Jobs on his co workers over this car. That's not much of a problem in the US. 200hp should be ok though, I'm thinking of the AW11 SC MR2, which had less than that and was still plenty of fun. There are other cars in the same price range that will be faster than this on both a track and in a straight line, but that never stopped the Miata from selling well. Nobody is going to cross shop a Mustang and a BRZ.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 23:10
|
|
|
sanchez posted:That's not much of a problem in the US. 200hp should be ok though, I'm thinking of the AW11 SC MR2, which had less than that and was still plenty of fun. What exactly is the pricerange on this, has it been announced? Is it Genesis/mustang base territory or something more like WRX territory? I was thinking while I was out for a drive, how the hell is toyota going to market this in the US? The cars selling point (handling) is basically an intangible feature. I haven't had the best luck with car salesmen really letting you wind out a car on some twisty roads. At least the miata doubled as a convertible to get some sales volume. I'd love to see a VW type driver experience where you get to flog the car on an autocross track. Got to see what a nice handling car the GTI was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2011 23:59
|
|
|
According to Autocar, UK buyers will need to dig into their pockets for £28k in order to get one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:06
|
|
|
Crustashio posted:What exactly is the pricerange on this, has it been announced? Is it Genesis/mustang base territory or something more like WRX territory? Not to mention the middle third of the country doesn't even really have twisty roads!
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:36
|
|
|
sanchez posted:Nobody is going to cross shop a Mustang and a BRZ. I don't believe this for a second. I wanted this thing to be awesome, but I'm going to laugh pretty hard when it costs the same as a base Mustang GT and isn't any faster around a track than the V6.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:41
|
|
|
fknlo posted:I don't believe this for a second. I wanted this thing to be awesome, but I'm going to laugh pretty hard when it costs the same as base Mustang GT and isn't any faster around a track than the V6. And I would still make a big bet the 86 is still going to overtake on the outside with the driver giving the Mustang the bird.... BFG deal if it cant do 1G stinkpan or do 5 minutes on the Ring or it gets retaken on the straight. It's about fingertips and toes driving, which the Mustang completely fails at.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:48
|
|
|
sanchez posted:That's not much of a problem in the US. 200hp should be ok though, I'm thinking of the AW11 SC MR2, which had less than that and was still plenty of fun. A cooper S is like 200hp and I wouldn't classify them as slow
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:52
|
|
|
Nodoze posted:A cooper S is like 200hp and I wouldn't classify them as slow 180 in the latest gen. The turbo probably makes it feel faster than an NA that you have to wring past 6k to get peak torque. I think this car should be fine, as long as the drive knocks the socks off of anyone who tries it out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 00:58
|
|
|
Nodoze posted:A cooper S is like 200hp and I wouldn't classify them as slow If the rumors are true and this car is ~2700 lbs, the same as a Cooper S, then it sounds good to me. Hopefully the lower power helps control insurance costs. (Who am I kidding? These are probably going to be expensive as hell.) Also, early english language review: http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/first-drive-toyota-86-20111128-1o1vi.html Seems to say that there's some usable low-end torque. Also, both rear seats fold down, which is pretty good. Using the absolutely useless methodology of comparing similar car prices in AUD, I would make a wild-rear end guess of $22-25k US base since the quoted price was "less than $40k AUD." That tallies with the Miata, which looks to be the closest competitor in terms of both price and general audience. A 2+2 coupe Miata that can fit normal-sized people actually sounds like a future AI superstar, if they can manage to keep the weight down and the electric steering doesn't suck too much. Hopefully, like the Miata, it will be bought more by secretaries than by boy-racer ricer types who will destroy them by the time they hit the used market. See also: shopping for a used WRX really sucks. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Nov 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 01:18
|
|
|
I'm deffo excited about this car. Unfortunately I kind of agree that American speed = torque if for nothing else than getting away from traffic at red lights; a tiny low-boost GTI-style turbo to push the torque curve to lower RPM without abusing top-end HP numbers might work wonders. Also I'm pretty sure Scion styling/marketing will dick the US version up pretty badly. If only they would just do this A5H posted:hnnnnghh
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 01:19
|
|
|
Snowdens Secret posted:Also I'm pretty sure Scion styling/marketing will dick the US version up pretty badly. How much have Scion models deviated sheet metal wise compared to their ROW counterparts?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:05
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:180 in the latest gen. The turbo probably makes it feel faster than an NA that you have to wring past 6k to get peak torque. I think this car should be fine, as long as the drive knocks the socks off of anyone who tries it out. I know the non-S still has no power, but I thought they had gotten better HP numbers out of the newer engine and turbo set up. Good to know my supercharged has more power 
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:11
|
|
|
smooth jazz posted:All this retro cool is lost on the cynical Scion branding. They'll call it the Scion Wave to try and be hip to the young crowd.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:18
|
|
|
sanchez posted:That's not much of a problem in the US. 200hp should be ok though, After seeing the videos of it going around Fiji, I am convinced that you're right. The car accelerates plenty fast and has no problem breaking those tires loose on command. I'm pretty well convinced that either this or the new Mustang will be my next car. Cat Terrist posted:And I would still make a big bet the 86 is still going to overtake on the outside with the driver giving the Mustang the bird.... BFG deal if it cant do 1G stinkpan or do 5 minutes on the Ring or it gets retaken on the straight. The new V6 Mustang track is ridiculously fast, despite its weight. In the C&D Lightning lap, the car managed to beat the Evo IX MR, BMW 135i, and the 2011 WRX STI; it even tied the 06 350Z Track time. It did all of this while being limited to 114MPH in the straights! (For reference, the Genesis Coupe R-Spec hit 128MPH) Edit: Yes, the old S had 162HP and 214HP with the JCW GP package. The new turbo has 172HP; 192HP with the JCW dealer reflash; and 208HP with the JCW Package. oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Nov 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:20
|
|
|
Nodoze posted:I know the non-S still has no power, but I thought they had gotten better HP numbers out of the newer engine and turbo set up. Good to know my supercharged has more power Wasn't the old SCed Cooper S just 160?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:21
|
|
|
oRenj9 posted:(For reference, the Genesis Coupe R-Spec hit 128MPH) Fixin' that link. E: damnit beaten Lowclock fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Nov 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:23
|
|
|
InitialDave posted:According to Autocar, UK buyers will need to dig into their pockets for £28k in order to get one. Ok thats realy lovely, seeing as a base 370z is like £29k I optioned out a current mx5 (which is what I was hoping the car would be similarly priced) at a high £23k I guess it doesnt realy matter as i'd probably end up going with a slightly used one anyway.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:37
|
|
|
A5H posted:
Halfway there 
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:38
|
|
|
Billy Zane posted:Halfway there I wonder what the offsets/pcd's are and if my old advans would fit over the brakes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:42
|
|
|
Idiot race posted:I wonder what the offsets/pcd's are and if my old advans would fit over the brakes. I think this thread has the info you're looking for: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2056
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 02:50
|
|
|
Billy Zane posted:I think this thread has the info you're looking for: Gah! 5x100 and what looks like simmilar offsets to subaru wheels
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 03:08
|
|
|
oRenj9 posted:The new V6 Mustang track is ridiculously fast, despite its weight. It's almost ridiculously fast to the point where holding that against other cars is stupid. If that's the bar nothing clears it, so if all you care about is price to performance ratio you shouldn't even be looking at anything else anyways. I actually think the gas mileage is going to be what makes or breaks this thing. If they can sell it as an efficient fun runabout - similar size and fuel economy as the CRZ but with a back seat and a much nicer drive - I think it'll work. Its competition is going to be more like the CRZ, Veloster, Mini, Miata (sorta,) that kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 03:18
|
|
|
DEUCE SLUICE posted:It's almost ridiculously fast to the point where holding that against other cars is stupid. If that's the bar nothing clears it, so if all you care about is price to performance ratio you shouldn't even be looking at anything else anyways. This is from FT86 club, translated from the toyota press package  The numbers for the other cars are almost dead on the US EPA's highway mileage. so 28-30mpg highway. It should be capable of probably 21-22mpg city.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 03:42
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Wasn't the old SCed Cooper S just 160? Yeah, stock. Should have specified that (I'm up to around 200)
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 03:45
|
|
|
Is Honda some type of new old-Saab with their fancy V4 engines? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 04:26
|
|
|
DEUCE SLUICE posted:It's almost ridiculously fast to the point where holding that against other cars is stupid. If that's the bar nothing clears it, I most certainly wasn't holding it against the 86, I was just pointing out that you are not going to be flipping the bird to new Mustang drivers while taking them out the outside in this car.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 05:11
|
|
|
Phone posted:Is Honda some type of new old-Saab with their fancy V4 engines? A VFR1200 motor in the CRZ would probably be a substantial improvement.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 05:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 06:19 |
|
|
oRenj9 posted:I most certainly wasn't holding it against the 86, I was just pointing out that you are not going to be flipping the bird to new Mustang drivers while taking them out the outside in this car. If Mustang driver stereotypes and to be seen 86 driver stereotypes are true, then it could be the case. But I'm still not convinced that only hardcore people will buy this car.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2011 05:38
|
|