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NovemberMike posted:The best thing that happened in the early UFCs was when the ninja won by being a ninja. But yeah, Royce Gracie as he was in UFC 1 would be destroyed by any good modern fighter ten pounds lighter than him. The best part of early UFC was the ridiculous disciplines they listed for fighters. I will never forget "Warrior Training" from UFC 9.
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Nov 25, 2011 07:55
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MassRayPer posted:That was kind of the point. A big reason UFC came into being was to prove the superiority of BJJ to the American audience. They didn't want to recruit elite wrestlers early on, especially for the first tournaments. In the best of all possible universes we post about four-time UFC tournament champion Kazuyuki Fujita.
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Nov 25, 2011 14:40
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MassRayPer posted:The best part of early UFC was the ridiculous disciplines they listed for fighters. I will never forget "Warrior Training" from UFC 9. SAFTA son, SAFTA.
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Nov 27, 2011 04:46
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ForbiddenWonder posted:SAFTA son, SAFTA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oSzGQtBxo
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Nov 28, 2011 00:15
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colonel_korn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oSzGQtBxo http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=HZ0tUbwjKVs
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Nov 28, 2011 05:19
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colonel_korn posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17oSzGQtBxo I can't stop hitting 6
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Nov 28, 2011 08:23
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It is weird that it's seen as a BJJ thing where even early on, the writing was on the wall for wrestling. Just a simple one, what's up with Duane Ludwig's "unofficial" fastest knockout? I saw the fight, and the ref's stopped it before the timer even hits 4:55, so how did it end up being recorded at 11 seconds?
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Nov 29, 2011 04:13
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Timer guy forgot to hit stop
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Nov 29, 2011 04:39
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henkman posted:Timer guy forgot to hit stop That's really loving depressing. So now we're stuck with record holder and noted actor Todd Duffee, instead of cool guy Duane Ludwig.
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Nov 29, 2011 05:10
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What is Luta Livre? I was looking up Jose Aldo's only loss and that was the style listed his opponent had. Have never heard of it before.
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Nov 29, 2011 05:48
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wrasslin
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Nov 29, 2011 05:49
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Lid posted:What is Luta Livre? I was looking up Jose Aldo's only loss and that was the style listed his opponent had. Have never heard of it before. Luta Livre was a style in Brazil that developed somewhat parallel to BJJ. It's based primarily on Judo and Muay Thai with some added in leglocks, and it's practitioners were mostly lower-income so they tended to practice exclusively no-gi. There was a marked rivalry between Luta Livre and BJJ practitioners which was intensified by the class differences (BJJ typically being more of an upper-class thing at the time).
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Nov 29, 2011 05:58
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actually its pro wrestling, and its mexican. they wear colourful masks and there are two referees
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Nov 30, 2011 01:34
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Can someone go into some serious explanation of the etymology? Did they take it from lucha libre and use it for a real martial art? Did it get the name independently (I get that it means free fight)?
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Nov 30, 2011 01:44
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kimbo305 posted:Can someone go into some serious explanation of the etymology? Did they take it from lucha libre and use it for a real martial art? Did it get the name independently (I get that it means free fight)? I don't know much about language but aren't portugese and spanish pretty close in their rooted language?
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Nov 30, 2011 03:23
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My studies indicate that they stole it from pro wrestling, because it is awesome.
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Nov 30, 2011 03:47
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BlindSite posted:I don't know much about language but aren't portugese and spanish pretty close in their rooted language? Yeah, they're the same words. But that doesn't make it clear how luta livre came to be named. Coincidence, derivative, or what?
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Nov 30, 2011 03:53
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As usual I don't know poo poo, but it sounds like that basically means "freestyle fighting," which is a perfectly reasonable thing to call a no-holds-barred striking/grappling style.
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Nov 30, 2011 04:19
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kimbo305 posted:Yeah, they're the same words. But that doesn't make it clear how luta livre came to be named. Coincidence, derivative, or what? In spanish it's lucha libre. There's no specific word for wrestling in portuguese, so it's usally translated as luta livre, be it pro wrestling WWE style or sports wrestling, although if you are speaking of the sports version, you usually call it luta greco-romana. As far as I know, the brazilian luta livre is wrestling with submissions but no gi and the luta livre vale tudo is the version of it that allows for striking, so it's basically an early version of MMA.
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Nov 30, 2011 04:28
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Max Awfuls posted:In spanish it's lucha libre. There's no specific word for wrestling in portuguese, so it's usally translated as luta livre, be it pro wrestling WWE style or sports wrestling, although if you are speaking of the sports version, you usually call it luta greco-romana. As far as I know, the brazilian luta livre is wrestling with submissions but no gi and the luta livre vale tudo is the version of it that allows for striking, so it's basically an early version of MMA. Isn't this just known as Catch wrestling?
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Nov 30, 2011 05:16
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BlindSite posted:Isn't this just known as Catch wrestling? Guess so, but it probably involves BJJ moves and submissions since it was created in Brazil by Gracie contemporaries.
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Nov 30, 2011 05:40
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referring to submissions as bjj moves is really disingenuous. there's like 8 submissions, and none of them were discovered within the last 150 years.
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Nov 30, 2011 06:14
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david carmichael posted:referring to submissions as bjj moves is really disingenuous. there's like 8 submissions, and none of them were discovered within the last 150 years. Pretty much nothing in BJJ is really "new". IIRC there's a black and white video from the 50s of a Kosen guy doing rubber guard.
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Nov 30, 2011 07:00
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david carmichael posted:referring to submissions as bjj moves is really disingenuous. there's like 8 submissions, and none of them were discovered within the last 150 years. There's a shitload of stuff in BJJ that's taken from other martial arts and just given a tweak and a different name.
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Nov 30, 2011 07:19
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Yes thats one of the better parts about bjj is that they saw what Sambo guys and wrestlers could do, and said "poo poo, lets get some of that". Anyone have that story from the American wrestler that came to train with the brazilian olympic team, but got secretly kidnapped by some of the Gracies so they could learn wrestling? Its pretty funny: they just showed up at the airport with a sign with his name and he didn't get suspicious until he saw everyone wearing a gi and doing weird things on their backs. He then just said gently caress it and stuck around because they were so nice to him, the real Brazilian wrestlers wouldn't call him back and he thought bjj seemed neat.
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Nov 30, 2011 16:35
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I didn't know where to ask this, so I'll leave it here: What the hell happened to this fight? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22wYrVmj4Tk Was this staged or something?
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Dec 2, 2011 18:09
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Isn't there also a picture of a highschool or college wrestling floating around(FD posted it, I believe) with a bunch of Gracies in it? Wearing wrestling shoes and singlets? SNAP.
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Dec 2, 2011 18:34
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its from when they trained with the brazilian national team. Its 70's as hell. I know its in the big Gracies history book but I don't know where to find the pic online.
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Dec 2, 2011 19:45
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Xguard86 posted:its from when they trained with the brazilian national team. Its 70's as hell. I know its in the big Gracies history book but I don't know where to find the pic online. Please tell me the Gracie Tackle was born in that crucible.
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Dec 2, 2011 19:48
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Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Please tell me the Gracie Tackle was born in that crucible. Rolls Gracie thought wrestling was great and was apparently very good at straight freestyle. The American guy they kidnapped is Bob Anderson and the picture is Rolls, Anderson, another Gracie and some Brazilian wrestlers. I think. Rolls was very interesting in integrating wrestling into Bjj. Sadly, Helio ordered the giant christ that protects brazil to knock him out of the air while hang gliding one day to protect GJJ from such bastard influences. So, now every true Gracie has to inch forward like an Egpytian statue that throws a front push kick then falls like a log into their opponent.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:39
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Dec 3, 2011 10:41
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So what is the status/opinion/policy of PSP on Women's Boxing? No Interest? Not good? I'm an rear end in a top hat for asking?
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Dec 10, 2011 10:29
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Herr Tog posted:So what is the status/opinion/policy of PSP on Women's Boxing? No Interest? Not good? I'm an rear end in a top hat for asking? I'm not a fan of women fighting in general, not because they're women, but because there's almost universally a big gap in the talent level and because the pool is so thin it's almost not worth having a womens division in mainstream sport. Even if you take into account that the fights are almost always one sided and feature the same few fighters, the quality of their ability in MMA anyway is that poor that there's not much entertainment value I derive out of it.
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Dec 10, 2011 13:27
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Herr Tog posted:So what is the status/opinion/policy of PSP on Women's Boxing? No Interest? Not good? I'm an rear end in a top hat for asking? I'm in favor of good fights, whether they're between women, men, or lemurs. Unfortunately fights between women are very rarely good fights. Of course, you could say the same thing about men ten years ago, or heavyweights now.
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Dec 10, 2011 13:36
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nemoulette posted:They should have called a young don frye 
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Dec 10, 2011 19:12
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Boxing/kickboxing/mma question: What counts as a knockdown? Does a rocked fighter taking one knee then popping back up count? Three points on the ground? Onto their back? And does it vary by sport?
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Dec 27, 2011 17:56
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Decades posted:Boxing/kickboxing/mma question: What counts as a knockdown? Does a rocked fighter taking one knee then popping back up count? Three points on the ground? Onto their back? And does it vary by sport? In boxing and kickboxing if your glove/butt/knee touch the floor that counts as a knockdown. In mma the fights aren't judged in the same way so knockdowns in this context aren't as significant to the score card.
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Dec 27, 2011 17:59
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Yes but they are highly significant to mma nerds arguing about close decisions on the Internet. Thanks
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Dec 27, 2011 18:04
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Knockdowns are not listed specifically as scoring criteria within the Unified Rules of MMA.
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Dec 27, 2011 18:07
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Yes that's true. But then neither are takedowns. I'd say knockdowns are something of a rough striking equivalent. In my opinion the unified scoring criteria amounts to only slightly more than "fight good" anyway. The more relevant scoring criteria in practice is probably the precedents set by past fights, but even then I'd argue there's a ton of room for interpretation in the rules, and straight up bad judges complicate things significantly. The classic, albeit uncommon, example is a fighter doing more damage from the bottom. Then there's stuff like Leonard Garcia and Diego Sanchez winning by aggressively swinging at air and Kampmann and Nam Pham losing by punching their opponent in the face while backing up. Then there's stuff like sherk winning by hugging dunham's legs and Munoz losing by hugging okami's legs. You could say the inconsistency is just bad judging, but I think those examples also raise some questions about what each of the criteria specifically mean. Do failed submission attempts count for anything? How about slick submission defense? How about if a guy is stuck in an unsuccessful triangle for half a round, in which case he's obviously being controlled, but from the bottom. Our gay complicated sport.
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Dec 27, 2011 19:09
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