|
It IS called the bloody flux.
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 02:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
Joramun posted:I took it as her getting back her period again as well, I thought that was completely obvious. I'm actually surprised because this is the first time I've ever even heard of possible other interpretations. It's either that or a miscarriage. Either way, blood bonds her to Drogon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 02:40
|
|
|
bigmcgaffney posted:Not straw men. Stone men. Hah, of course. It's not like it has a better plot arc, fascinating philosophy, and more awesome Shrike involvement. It IS better than Hyperion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 02:40
|
|
|
Aurubin posted:I glossed over her last chapter to be honest, waiting for the making GBS threads to end. If she had her period that's significant in the way that she's no longer barren, but hell, how could her ability to have kids impact the end of the story? I hope GRRM doesn't use a timeskip, they're a real copout. While reading it I thought Dany contracted whatever disease was destroying Meereen since she drank (what i also thought) was their water source. It didn't really ever cross my mind that it was her period or anything. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 02:51
|
|
|
Made with Air posted:While reading it I thought Dany contracted whatever disease was destroying Meereen since she drank (what i also thought) was their water source. It didn't really ever cross my mind that it was her period or anything. Yeah, I took the name "bloody flux" literally and just assumed she was having bloody diarrhea. Although, now that you mention it, having her period does sound a bit more... poetic
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 03:13
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:I'd argue Endymion and Rise of Endymion are better novels than the first two. The last one is incredibly fascinating. I'm honestly afraid that if we ever come into physical contact we will explode. Please don't take this as an insult, it's really more of wonderment at all the things contained in this strange cosmos: I have literally never met anyone who liked the Dune prequels or the late ASOIAF books or Endymion. All three at once is just 
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 03:19
|
|
|
Fog Tripper posted:Jesus christ. Warning: LONG loving SPERG POST. It kind of got away from me here. I realize the slapshod use of magic has a hell of a lot more to do with GRRM's roots as a TV writer/TV guy. It's not that magic takes the forefront that bothers me, it's that the use of magic is much more messy and less cohesive. Magic increasing is part of the natural turn this epic was always going to take, I don't know where AN or anyone thought that anyone was denying that. That's good too, in narrative turns in answers old mysteries and adds new ones. The problem is that instead of getting to the root of even one of the magical threads we've just compounded more and more, like Battlestar Galactica or the X-Files or LOST. If you follow any of those shows you find there are two major types of fans-- those who were so enamored by the "ride" that they stuck around even when the mysteries were so built up that no conceivable answer would justify the immense lead-in; and those who realized that the writers couldn't satisfy them and jumped ship. I'm usually the latter, and while ASoIaF has been enough of a fun ride that I'll actually stick with it to the bitter and inevitable death of GRRM, I do feel like all the new types of magic are so mysterious and so complicated that next to no resolution is going to be satisfying. And this is especially egregious because as a fantasy series--especially low fantasy--all you have to do is come up with an imaginary system of magic that "hangs" together in the context of your universe. Maybe GRRM has that. I doubt it. Between armies of Ice Spiders and Five Flavors of Zombie and Dragons and Warlocks and R'hllor and the Seasons and the Children of the Forest and the Seven and the Old Gods and the House of Black and White you would have to spend Tolkein-levels of time sorting out any sense of mythological harmony. Like it or not this isn't the Marvel or DC universe where you can throw a literal manifestation of Ares, the Martian Manhunter, and Batman into the same story and make it work because it's all fun and games. This is a series that has always had pretensions to general realism in terms of physics and historical cohesion, and on the political side has always delivered. There is a bar set in terms of cohesion, and it's set pretty loving high. Thus the magic and all the various instances of it are sticking out like a sore thumb. How old could this world possibly be that almost everyone is ignorant of magic, when apparently all you need to do is fart around with half a purpose and a minor House to your name and you'll trip over ancient ruins with Golems or a House run by Warlocks or a Red Priestess who can kill Kings with shadow babies? The Red Priests alone are clearly some heavy-duty magical powerhouses in this world. It's obvious that if you get a Red Priest who is even kind-of good they'll be able to pull off some awesome poo poo for you. Why can no other major priests do this? Why don't the Red Priests have immense political pull everywhere if they can clearly demonstrate this ability? The Warlock guilds and other poo poo in other cities dampening their impact? General xenophobia causing witch hunts in the presence of raw magic? If so why don't the Dothraki or Free Cities or Slave Cities give a flying poo poo? Granted, there's only a few demonstrable instances of true Red Magic users, but unless Melissandre and that dude who burnt Vicatrion's arm are secretly King Kahunas of that church it stands to reason that others in the Church can pull this poo poo off. It's either that or the genuine magic is a very recent development, in which case this algorithm goes down to my mini-paragraph beginning with "Moreover." Which brings us to the question of why no other churches seem to be able to do any magical poo poo, and I ain't even going near the House of Black and White and all the questions that raises. The Old Gods don't really have a church that we've seen, the Seven don't seem to have any real mysticism beyond a spiritual pantheon, and the Drowned God doesn't seem to do poo poo other than maybe keep its priests from drowning. There are potential answers, since they're all pretty restricted to Westeros, which brings up the question: Why does no one on the continent seem to be aware of the crazy awesome magic on the other continents unless it's terribly recent or the source of the magic is very very far away? "The Limitations of Medieval Technology, Communication, and Education" doesn't explain the sheer precedence of magic not getting noticed by loving everyone important by the end of ADWD. Even with "drunk tavern talk" and limited spheres of exposure and strained communication methods severely dampening validity eventually you're going to run into enough commoners and sellswords and merchants talking about poo poo they've seen and heard that a Noble or Historian is going to take serious notice of it. At the very least it'd show up in enough histories for a long enough period that you wouldn't go "oh, magic's been gone for a few centuries to a millennium, guess it's not worth remembering anything about loving Ice Spiders and sealing it in a library for Kings and other Important People." People in medieval societies--even uneducated, misinformed ones--aren't necessarily dumber than us as humans today; at least if we follow the conceit that humans in ASoIaF are evolved to this medieval society from roughly the same point as us per narrative conceit to be relatable, but that's another topic entirely. They're going to talk, and shrewd people are going to codify it and organize ways to deal with it and profit on it. I find it very hard to believe no one truly made it a priority to educate the Lords of High Houses that while it's been gone for centuries, that poo poo was real and there are documents on the who, what, why, where, and how. So then, if magic is only just coming back then how long was it gone and why do so few histories up until 'now' mention it and if said histories do mention magic why the gently caress does no one believe them? Historical decay from parchment being too old to last the centuries? Why did no one ever loving copy that poo poo down then while the memories were fresh? There are statements painting that all the magic has devolved to the point of fairy tales, which doesn't hold a ton of water when there are still clearly great magical remnants like the Wall still around. And if magic's been gone for so many centuries why is global technology still stuck somewhere between 700 AD and 1400 AD depending on society? Oldtown conspiracy? Are the Maester's keeping a lid on everything? It's been hinted at, but to properly keep a lid on everything magical outside of Westeros they'd have to be the ultimate power players on the continent, and if so why the gently caress wouldn't they be involved in any of the wars up until this point? Why do Varys or Littlefinger or Tyrion or other educated men not even give a gently caress about them them? Are any Nobles in on it? Propaganda and misdirection, maybe, but unless there are immensely supportive passages of a maester conspiracy in the first 3 books it'd come across as more of a retcon than a revelation. It could happen, and might be the best rational way to bridge the politics and sheer explosion of magic in recent Westerosi history--as far as we know, there may be some X-Files/MIB black ops of maesters covering up magical incidents across the land; that'd make for one hell of a spin-off novel. Moreover, this brings us to the BIG question which is what exactly is causing magic to come back and why? Especially why so quickly if magic is even 50% isolated to what we see in the books and a relatively recent historical occurrence within the fictional universe? There was a nice Warren Ellis issue of Ultimate Fantastic Four that attempted to explain why suddenly everyone and their mother is getting superpowers in the Marvel Universe. The jist is that there's a probability curve, and once just one crazy "bit by a radioactive spider" event occurs and causes a Spider-man, the probability of other similar incidents jumps up in probability immensely, causing a snowball effect. Cute bullshit mathematics, but it works in the context of the Marvel Universe and was so satisfactory I let it explain a ton of preposterous poo poo that occurs in those books. My point being, what could possibly cause all these disparate forces of magic to suddenly arise within a generation? Is there even an answer that could satisfy that with anything short of Silmarilion levels of exposition, or at the very least some legitimate Gods showing up to answer trivia from Tyrion or some poo poo? Well, there is one. It answers everything. And it follows Occam's Razor that the simplest solution is the best one: GRRM is pulling all of this magic out of his rear end with no idea of how any of it fits together, and it's likely he's just going to let all the disparate threads of "how, where, why" just hang loose because it's ultimately window dressing to the politics. That approach worked really well for the first three books when he had a definite political arc to hang the magic on, but now that he's spent two full books positioning his characters all he's done is throw a ton of questions that beg for--if not resolution, at least addressing. It is a real potential concern as the books proceed. Is it a killer to the series? I wouldn't say so. Is it worth scrutinizing? I'd clearly say so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 03:23
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:I'd argue Endymion and Rise of Endymion are better novels than the first two. The last one is incredibly fascinating. Azure_Horizon posted:Hah, of course. It's not like it has a better plot arc, fascinating philosophy, and more awesome Shrike involvement. It IS better than Hyperion. See, I was gonna agree with you on how ASOIAF has always been about reaffirming the power of the fantasy tropes through their subversion, gradually culminating in, well, the ending of LotR, where nothing really ends, so much as all the characters give up in exhaustion. But you know what? gently caress that. Obviously I've been wrong every time I agreed with you. Because loving ENDYMION? Better than Hyperion? Endymion basically took a gigantic, Dany-worthy bloody poo poo all over everything that made Hyperion different from every other scifi. Neat wrapping up of the plot? Check. Cartoonishly evil villains? Check. Mary goddamn Sue herself? check. Ruining the mystery of the Shrike and in the process confusing the hell out of your cosmology? Endymion is literally everything we pretend Feast and Dance were.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 03:43
|
|
|
What, is it somehow impossible to have diarrhea while having a period?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 03:52
|
|
|
^^^ You get the poops a lot when you're on your period. Just read this poo poo, it's great. However, it's also possible for barren or infertile women to continue menstruating, so I'm not really sure what to think of the blood. It's deliberately ambiguous and I hate that poo poo because now I have to not-buy book 6 -- if it ever happens -- just to find out what the gently caress.smarion2 posted:Yeah I obviously understand the difference and yeah its annoying. Shouldn't have used spell check so fast, my mistake I definitely forgive you. 
my cat is norris fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:00
|
|
|
^^^ Haha thanks Fog Tripper posted:Brony spotted!
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:05
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:I'm honestly afraid that if we ever come into physical contact we will explode. To confirm: After reading all of the Dune prequels and poo poo sequels and whatever (except anything that's been written after 2007), I think they're all terrible, except for Erasmus, who is actually a decent character in the wrong universe. But I love AFFC/ADWD/Endymion. Gotta learn to speak the language of the dead, and the living, and hear the music of the spheres.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:20
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:To confirm: After reading all of the Dune prequels and poo poo sequels and whatever (except anything that's been written after 2007), I think they're all terrible, except for Erasmus, who is actually a decent character in the wrong universe. Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad - Meatloaf, Bat Out Of Hell
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:24
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:A fantasy corollary to Clarke's third law, "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science." Over analyzing the magic beyond the mysticism, religious trappings, and moral implications isn't really the point. If Melisandre can fart a fireball, it really doesn't matter if the mechanics are explained. I think the inter-connectivity of Martin's world draws more attention to these things, as well as the initial label of "low fantasy". If the magic comes back, it demands explanation. It may be a pertinent plot point near the end of the series, but an absolute explanation would cheapen it in my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:41
|
|
|
Her period was the fulfillment of the prophecy from that one lady which means she can finally have her Drogo back, but this time it's that other khal. And he'll have zombie Drogo with them or something stupid like that
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 04:47
|
|
|
"Bloody flux" cannot be interpreted as anything other than diarrhea. It is another name for dysentery, "an inflammatory disorder of the intestine, especially of the colon, that results in severe diarrhea containing mucus and/or blood in the faeces with fever and abdominal pain. If left untreated, dysentery can be fatal." Although she also has her period there at the end. This does not unequivocally mean she can carry a child to term. Illium and Olympos were excellent books, you shut your mouth. Also you guys should read Grimus.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:02
|
|
|
 Sorry, that's obligatory right there. Maybe if Dany rests a few days she'll feel better...
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:05
|
|
|
Maytag posted:"Bloody flux" cannot be interpreted as anything other than diarrhea. It is another name for dysentery, "an inflammatory disorder of the intestine, especially of the colon, that results in severe diarrhea containing mucus and/or blood in the faeces with fever and abdominal pain. If left untreated, dysentery can be fatal." I'm trying to get into Ilium but it's a bit of a slow burn to me. The only thing I really enjoy are the sections where Simmons describes the events of The Iliad. Everything else is weird... I mean, some dude fascinated by Shakespeare? Martians?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:09
|
|
|
my cat is norris posted:
Here lies BUTTASS. Maytag posted:Although she also has her period there at the end. This does not unequivocally mean she can carry a child to term. I think in a fantasy novel it probably does.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:17
|
|
|
my cat is norris posted:^^^ You get the poops a lot when you're on your period. Just read this poo poo, it's great. However, it's also possible for barren or infertile women to continue menstruating, so I'm not really sure what to think of the blood. It's deliberately ambiguous and I hate that poo poo because now I have to not-buy book 6 -- if it ever happens -- just to find out what the gently caress. I've never gotten the poops while on the rag but then I've never eaten Dothraki Shitberries or lived in a fantasy pseudo-oriental shithole or pissed off some sheepfucking witchqueen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:19
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:I'm trying to get into Ilium but it's a bit of a slow burn to me. The only thing I really enjoy are the sections where Simmons describes the events of The Iliad. Everything else is weird... I mean, some dude fascinated by Shakespeare? Martians? I want to read Ilium for the Iliad references but I heard Olympos is terrible so I've been wary.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 06:29
|
|
|
Really, though, complaining about Simmons making eye-rollingly obvious references towards his current literary obsession is like complaining that a GRRM novel has really lovely sex scenes and overlong descriptions of minutiae. You know what you're signing on for and it really doesn't do any good to do more than roll your eyes and move on. But goddamnit Simmons, place your irrelevant literary love letters somewhere other than your novels. Get a blog. You'll feel better.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 07:03
|
|
|
whowhatwhere posted:Really, though, complaining about Simmons making eye-rollingly obvious references towards his current literary obsession is like complaining that a GRRM novel has really lovely sex scenes and overlong descriptions of minutiae. You know what you're signing on for and it really doesn't do any good to do more than roll your eyes and move on. It actually made sense in terms of Hyperion and Endymion due to who he was referencing and the titles of both works, but it just feels very out of place in Ilium.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 07:10
|
|
|
bigmcgaffney posted:I want to read Ilium for the Iliad references but I heard Olympos is terrible so I've been wary. It's really awful, Olympos in particular. Read it if you want awkward misapplications of quantum physics, rabid Islamophobia, and a dissatisfying conclusion to the admittedly incredibly badass cliffhanger on Ilium (it goes nowhere)
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 07:12
|
|
|
Ilium is a little tough to get into but I ended up really enjoying the seeming disparities between the two main settings, particularly on a second read. I thought the stories were really well-written and the pacing was great. Just because they weren't in a style of your liking doesn't make them bad. Please provide evidence of "Islamophobia" because I don't remember anything like this at all. Edit: Oh I see. Yeah I didn't interpret that as being anti-Islam at all. I guess that's one way to look at it. Also I enjoyed Drood. Maytag fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 07:35
|
|
|
Ugh, when can we stop talking about other, better books and talk about lemoncakes and rape again?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 08:50
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:Ugh, when can we stop talking about other, better books and talk about lemoncakes and rape again? When the sun rises in the west ...
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 10:43
|
|
|
Maytag posted:Please provide evidence of "Islamophobia" because I don't remember anything like this at all. Edit: Oh I see. Yeah I didn't interpret that as being anti-Islam at all. I guess that's one way to look at it. A lot of the stuff about Islam in Ilium/Olympos becomes a little more obvious when you read this particularly exquisite piece of  Simmons wrote.quote:Also I enjoyed Drood. I should read that, it sounds cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 14:10
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:I've never gotten the poops while on the rag but then I've never eaten Dothraki Shitberries or lived in a fantasy pseudo-oriental shithole or pissed off some sheepfucking witchqueen. You're lucky! Next month I'll try to avoid the shitberries but I crave them pretty hard when I'm PMSing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 15:12
|
|
|
my cat is norris posted:You're lucky! Write us a song about it, we haven't had one of those since the old thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 16:38
|
|
|
I'll sing anything, I'm just not a very good lyricist. Someone write a new song about shitberries.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 16:43
|
|
|
Shitberries shitberries I love you, yes I doooooo...
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 17:14
|
|
|
whowhatwhere posted:Shitberries shitberries I love you, yes I doooooo... Is the blood from my vag, or mayhaps my poooo.... Nightsoil, nightsoil, what have I done I must needs some leaves, to stifle these runs... Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Dec 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 17:40
|
|
|
You're not my Drogo, but I love your moustachioooo ...
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 17:42
|
|
|
Would anyone else be perfectly happy to see Dany get raped to death by Khal Clitto or whatever his name was? Then Drogon and all the loving dragons die so all the magic stops being powerful and GRRM dies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 17:44
|
|
|
Masturbatory Dany fantasies are all he has left in this world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 18:02
|
|
|
Fog Tripper posted:Is the blood from my vag, or mayhaps my poooo.... Now I'm pretty sure www was singing my much-beloved song about pussycats but I have no idea what you've got going on here FogTripper.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 18:24
|
|
|
hailthefish posted:It's like the movie Groundhog Day, but instead of living the same day over and over again until he gets it right, he's writing the same books I'm pretty sure that's David Eddings.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 18:26
|
|
|
my cat is norris posted:Now I'm pretty sure www was singing my much-beloved song about pussycats but I have no idea what you've got going on here FogTripper. Yep. I didn't have time to come up with words for "You and your shitberry ______x4" though. You and your shitberry stains (whoa-oh-whoooaaa) You and your shitberry groans (whoa-oh-whoooaaa) You and your shitberry farts (whoa-oh-whoooaaa) You and your shitberry...shits....
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 18:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 06:30 |
|
|
Whatever. I'll roll with it. I'll see what I can come up with tonight. It might be awful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2011 18:39
|
|