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Joe Mama posted:Imagine it leaking after a frontal collision on a car that's on fire. Lawyers alone would stop most companies from even trying it commercially. If this was true, cars would not have bumper struts, gas shock absorbers or magnesium components. The first two try to kill you, and the third makes your life a nightmare if you try to apply water. Never, EVER stand directly in front of or behind a vehicle on fire! Besides, lots of large commercial freezers and air conditioners use ammonia, which is nastytime when mixed with oils.
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Dec 2, 2011 20:38
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Motronic posted:It worse for the environment, No, it's fine. It's about 3 times worse a greenhouse gas than CO2 is, which means it's way, way less of a greenhouse gas than pretty much any fluorocarbon (which tend to be thousands of times worse than CO2). It's also thoroughly nontoxic.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:29
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I'd rather have a small propane fire than the result of releasing R12 into a hot/burning engine compartment after a crash. Phosgene gas is a bitch, even at low concentrations.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:30
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Phanatic posted:No, it's fine. It's about 3 times worse a greenhouse gas than CO2 is, which means it's way, way less of a greenhouse gas than pretty much any fluorocarbon (which tend to be thousands of times worse than CO2). It's also thoroughly nontoxic. Compared to R134a? Or possibly compared to how good R134a was at first (which they now have realized is way worse than they thought and are phasing out)? Because that's the only reasoning I've heard for it short of the water vapor, which seems solvable to me. I'll believe it, as this is just the refrigeration guy "wisdom" I've been told over and over again.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:35
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My A/C is full of propane and isobutane. Even if it didn't keep the car any colder than R134, I would still run it because of the huge difference in compressor load.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:36
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Lowclock posted:My A/C is full of propane and isobutane. Even if it didn't keep the car any colder than R134, I would still run it because of the huge difference in compressor load. Where are you getting that from? It's got to be cheaper than R134a is these days. I just have no idea where I would get a blend like that in the US without having to buy a large amount. Unless you're talking about came stove fuel....
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Dec 2, 2011 21:42
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I just took the easy route and used that ES-12a or whatever stuff, which is just like 80% propane and 20% isobutane to help keep pressure down some. It ended up being cheaper than the adapters and stuff I would have needed to use like a propane tank and a camping fuel tank because I don't already have spare regs for them. In e34 it's a good amount cooler, and in my dad's Mustang it's about the same, but like I was saying, I almost can't even tell when the compressor is on in either of them now.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:48
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I'm actually surprised this many AI posters actually even have A/C. I think my Ranger does, but I NEVER use it. Not in the 8 years I've had the thing.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:00
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I'm actually surprised this many AI posters actually even have A/C. I don't know how you live without it. Even in the winter it's useful.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:04
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If you've used the window defrost setting on your car, then you've used your AC.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:07
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Geirskogul posted:If you've used the window defrost setting on your car, then you've used your AC. I really don't think most people understand that at all. I have mentioned that to people before and got a deer in the headlights stare. I wouldn't be without AC even if I lived in a place where I never needed it for temperature control.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:10
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Geirskogul posted:If you've used the window defrost setting on your car, then you've used your AC. I have a defrost setting in my car. But no A/C. Seems to work fine (albeit slower) than any other car I've had.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:52
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revmoo posted:I don't know how you live without it. Even in the winter it's useful. In fact, it's more of a pain for me that the A/C in my '02 is broken at this time of year than in summer. In summer I can open the windows and just be uncomfortable. In this time of year, I get condensation on the inside of the windshield that has the chance to flash freeze before the car warms up. Then I can't see.
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Dec 2, 2011 22:58
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Ziploc posted:I have a defrost setting in my car. But no A/C. Seems to work fine (albeit slower) than any other car I've had. If a car has an A/C system, the defrost setting will run the air through the coils first to dry the air. Blowing dry air at the windshield will defog it much faster than the potentially moist air a non-A/C vehicle could output. What I was commenting on was GnarlyCharlie4u saying he's never used his A/C, even though his Ranger has it equipped. If you live in an area that doesn't require A/C use in the summer, then it probably gets pretty cold in the winter, and in cold winters people most likely will use their defrost setting, which negates the "I never use my A/C" comment, because in that situation, you do. As an added bonus, if you dry the air first with the A/C system, it'll start clearing the fogged windshield before it even warms up, as even dry cold air will help evaporate cold frost/fog (this probably explains why you said your non-A/C car takes a bit longer to defog than other cars - it can't dry the air as efficiently). Didn't mean to make an absolute statement about every car on the road, but like Motronic I've had similar situations where people don't understand, or where their A/C breaks during the summer and they don't think it'll affect them at all during the winter, which is untrue. I also make a concession to newer cars that, while they may lack an A/C system, can be equipped with electric heater/driers.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:00
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I'm actually surprised this many AI posters actually even have A/C. Writing off everyone who lives in the southwest? It regularly hits 140 in the cabin and surface temps of things like the dash and seat belt buckle can hit 165+.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:16
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Yeah, gently caress that, even in Kansas this year we had 30 days of 100+F temperatures, no A/C would be pretty crushing.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:22
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Writing off everyone who lives in the southwest? It regularly hits 140 in the cabin and surface temps of things like the dash and seat belt buckle can hit 165+. It does that here in VA too... I was actually hoping for more of a 'BECAUSE RACECAR' response. Now, It gets hot as gently caress in VA during the summer. But I'd rather sweat than lose 10hp and 5+mpg by turning on the A/C. Besides, I love having the windows open. I DO use my defroster but I'm pretty sure the windshield and floor functions don't use my compressor at all. 2000 2.5L ranger. please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:29
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:But I'd rather sweat than lose 10hp and 5+mpg by turning on the A/C. I, too, love showing up to work and/or social events with pit stains and reeking of ball sweat.
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Dec 2, 2011 23:35
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Now, It gets hot as gently caress in VA during the summer. But I'd rather sweat than lose 10hp and 5+mpg by turning on the A/C. My current car doesn't have AC, but my next one probably will. It's nice to have, even if I don't need it all the time.
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Dec 3, 2011 00:04
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I use my AC until the outside temperatures are in the low 60's. Every car i've ever driven adds at *least* 10 degrees on "vent" by pumping the air into the cabin.
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Dec 3, 2011 00:07
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Writing off everyone who lives in the southwest? It regularly hits 140 in the cabin and surface temps of things like the dash and seat belt buckle can hit 165+. poo poo I live in Colorado and my car got around 140 in the summer. Didn't help it was black in and out...
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Dec 3, 2011 01:45
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Maker Of Shoes posted:I, too, love showing up to work and/or social events with pit stains and reeking of ball sweat. Eh, that happens here in The South even if you have the A/C on max blast before you get in the car. You also get swamp-rear end unless you have cooled seats. And clothes sticking to your back. God help you if you wear a suit. The flipside is that it happens to everyone, so you don't need to be self-conscious about the pit stains and ball sweat.
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Dec 3, 2011 02:13
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Maker Of Shoes posted:I, too, love showing up to work and/or social events with pit stains and reeking of ball sweat. Girls like the reek of ball sweat. You attend the wrong social events.
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Dec 3, 2011 02:22
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:It does that here in VA too... You're losing the same fuel economy by running with the windows open due to the drag introduced by wind coming in the cabin.
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Dec 3, 2011 02:29
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Maker Of Shoes posted:I, too, love showing up to work and/or social events with pit stains and reeking of ball sweat. Heh, I had a buddy who had to drive his Wrangler to an office meeting with no AC in the middle of a FL summer because his car broke down. He said by the time he got there his pits and back were drenched and he looked like an idiot. Even though I have AC in my Kia I never used it even in the summer, because my commute is only ten minutes, and the AC cut into my mpg big time. I also wear shorts and a micro mesh T so it ain't a big deal, gotta walk around outside anyway so may as well be used to it.
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Dec 3, 2011 03:12
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Maker Of Shoes posted:I, too, love showing up to work and/or social events with pit stains and reeking of ball sweat. Welcome to riding a motorcycle daily. 
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Dec 3, 2011 03:13
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Motronic posted:Compared to R134a? Yes, by far. R134a is 1300 times worse than CO2.
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Dec 3, 2011 04:08
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Phanatic posted:Yes, by far. R134a is 1300 times worse than CO2. I meant compared to propane.
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Dec 3, 2011 04:09
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Everyone worrying about propane flammability - propane is R290. Used commercially as a refrigerant. The only difference is that it is extremely high purity to avoid corroding the refrigeration system - you really don't want sulfur-bearing chemicals (commonly used as odor tracers in propane meant for use as fuel) in any refrigeration system that contains brass parts as it will corrode them. Oh, and R134a is not flammable, but when exposed to fire or temperatures above about 500 degrees F, decomposes into some really, really nasty chemicals. If your car catches fire and you don't have a way to put it out, get far away from it, preferably upwind. Motronic posted:Yes...that. I suck at explaining things sometimes. I am glad you sperged about this, actually. I've always wondered about some of this stuff. bolind posted:Actually, consumer-grade propane gas (and friends) is treated with an esther so it smells like "gas". IIRC it is methyl mercaptan - CH3SH. poo poo smells horrible. I know methyl mercaptan is added to natgas, ethyl mercaptan might be used in heavier gases.
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Dec 3, 2011 04:41
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so I've been meaning to swap in a replacement compressor and then re-charge the system. is there a reason not to fill it with r290 when I do? except that it seems I need to find a place that actually has it and is willing to put it in.
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Dec 3, 2011 04:57
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I doubt you will find any place that will do it. Just order a couple cans of ES-12a and fill it with a normal R134a hose.
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Dec 3, 2011 05:03
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Finding compatible oil, actual R290, and making sure your seals are compatible. Either way, don't forget to put in a new drier if the system has been open/empty for a nonzero amount of time.
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Dec 3, 2011 05:07
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I live in south Texas and my Jeep's A/C fan won't spin (the blower itself is fine but the knobs or wiring is hosed elsewhere), even days where it gets to 105 F I get by just fine without massive sweating. Maybe you people just need to take your doors off 
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Dec 3, 2011 05:20
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If you are going to recharge the system yourself you really need to draw a vacuum on it first. Leaving moisture and air in the system is going to make it perform somewhere between 'poo poo' and 'mediocre'. Doesn't need to be a hard vacuum, a small cheap vacuum pump should do the job.
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Dec 3, 2011 05:35
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^^^Those (compressor attachment ones) aren't strong enough to boil away moisture Why not R12 in an R12 system? It's readily available and $25/can the last time I checked at a local auto supply shop. You'll have to dick around with fittings that screw up the valve stem and so much other bullshit to use propane or those eBay motors blends. Those blends can't be topped off and contaminate R12 & R134a reclamation bottles.
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Dec 3, 2011 05:38
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kastein posted:Jeep 4.0L motors are made of pure unobtainium. drat thing just laughed and kept going, lifters rattling horribly... It's kind of a thing in Jeep circles that the sixes (4.0L and the AMC 258ci) can run in any combination of two of the following: upside-down, underwater, without oil, without coolant. The Ford 4.9L six and 5.0L V8 are similar, except the V8 tends to seize up if you get it too overheated ... but it starts right back up as soon as it cools off. I have a 5.0 Crown Vic with a leaky radiator, so I know from experience. I think it's also blown a head gasket, so what little water I put in it ends up in the oil. I've replaced it with an '03 Interceptor until I can rebuild the engine, but sometimes I have to move it because I need the driveway spot or drive it across town when moving house. It runs like a champ, though it sounds like a diesel. I'm sure if I put actual oil in it instead of the mostly-water milkshake it'd quiet down, but it's not worth the money right now. That reminds me, I really need to change the oil in the cop car. It's been like 30k miles. I have the oil and filter, but it's always raining on my day off.  General_Failure posted:The compressor I use for filling the tyres on everything is built from old truck parts. I doubt it does much in the way of moisture trapping. No problems here. MATLAB 1988 posted:Why not R12 in an R12 system? It's readily available and $25/can the last time I checked at a local auto supply shop.
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Dec 3, 2011 06:41
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I've got that license to buy R12 too, it literally took me about 8 hours of class and I didn't really learn anything because the teacher spent more time talking about his wife than AC. Haven't really had a use for it but hey I got payed to go get it.
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Dec 3, 2011 06:59
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:
You're wrong. Unless you have an "economy defrost" setting, these diagrams I found show that it Fords work the same as every other vehicle and turn on the A/C to dry the defroster air. It also seems that, if there is a vacuum leak for the vent flaps, the A/C in either normal or defrost mode will default to blowing through the defrost vents, like most HVAC systems in cars are designed to (for safety - the most important function of the HVAC system is to defog the windows). I can also confirm that the A/C compressor is on when I use the defrost setting in my father's 2001 Ford work van, and his 1998 Ranger. They're not exactly 2000 Rangers, but I thought it was relevant. Not trying to start a fight, just responding to the request. Don't take it in a bad way at all. (Edit: 1998 not 1989) Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Dec 3, 2011 |
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Dec 3, 2011 08:35
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Geirskogul posted:You're wrong. Unless you have an "economy defrost" setting, these diagrams I found show that it Fords work the same as every other vehicle and turn on the A/C to dry the defroster air. I've had a couple of Fords with seized A/C compressors ('92 F150 and '03 Crown Vic), and I can verify this. You may not notice the compressor running in defrost mode, but you sure as hell notice when the compressor pulley isn't spinning.
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Dec 3, 2011 09:19
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kastein posted:IIRC it is methyl mercaptan - CH3SH. poo poo smells horrible. I know methyl mercaptan is added to natgas, ethyl mercaptan might be used in heavier gases. Given my grandfather was a dentist and my old man was a vet, I'm disappointed that no-one in my family has ever jury-rigged a nitrous system on one of their cars.
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Dec 3, 2011 14:16
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