|
mindphlux posted:I'm curious about this, but a step further. how the heck do breweries with fixed pipes and CIP systems really get clean? it seems like any enclosed system where you can't run a brush through would be a magnet for gunk - I mean even let's assume you transfer off a primary fermentation from a vessel to some secondary tank, and yeast sludge, trub, etc is going through those pipes. Even if you cleaned it immediately, I can't see having many thousands of dollars worth of beer on the line and just trusting that a flush of PBW and starsan or whatever cleans your tubes. Hot enough water and the right chemicals will clean anything. For example to clean and sanitize our bottle filler we run about 40 gallons of hot water (at around 180*F), recirculate a hot caustic solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water, recirculate a phosphoric acid solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water and then run 40 gallons paraacetic acid.
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 13:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 05:16 |
|
|
So I've brewed two festabrew kits (cheating) and one extract brew. I did not much enjoy the extract brewing, partially because I suspect my LHBS has old stale extract and I saved no money vs. buying festabrew. I think it is time to go whole grain. I have been considering modifying a cooler, as outlined on the homebrewtalk wiki. One major concern of mine is whether the cooler will be tolerant of heat, especially extended heat. They seem to have a range of 0-60 C (32-140 F). Is that a huge problem? Also, what is the problem with doing a partial boil in this scenario? I have a 24 quart stock pot. Is topping up the wort during the boil (with boiling water) a bad idea?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 16:02
|
|
|
Docjowles posted:That guy is a dumbass. You'd want to buy a new set of anything plastic or rubber that comes in contact with wild yeast/bacteria, but it's not going to jump out of the bucket and Agreed. Using a separate fermenter and airlock and maybe even racking wand for sour beers is a good idea, but anything glass or metal should be perfectly cleanable and usable for regular beers. I ferment sours and regular beers right next to each other in a closet. Never had an issue with one contaminating another.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 16:31
|
|
infect your house
|
bssoil posted:Also, what is the problem with doing a partial boil in this scenario? I have a 24 quart stock pot. Is topping up the wort during the boil (with boiling water) a bad idea? Well, you just can't do a partial-boil all-grain batch as a practical matter. The nature of the process puts a lot of liquid in your boiler. I guess you could do a mash with a low ratio of water to grain, then not sparge. This would give you first runnings only, in the ballpark of 1.085 or so. It would be horribly inefficient, and your mashtun would have to be pretty large to get enough grain in to make it workable. As an example, I am looking at some numbers from a previous batch. Keep in mind I brew ten gallons at a time, so all of my vessels are 60 quarts (15 gallons). I doughed in 32.5 pounds of grain at 1.25 qt./lb. This is a pretty big grist, but I have done larger in that tun. The strike water was 9.75 gallons. The first runnings were 5.5 gallons at 1.087. I could have used those first runnings alone to make ten gallons of beer at something like 1.050, but by sparging, my actual OG was 1.087. Also, even though I could have done a partial batch using a smaller boiler, my mash tun still has to be pretty large in this scenario. The rule of thumb I suggest is that all of your vessels (mash tun, hot liquor tank, and boiler) should be in the range of 1.5 to 2x your desired batch size. The hot liquor tank is a little flexible here, and can probably be 1.0x your batch size without causing any serious constraint, but you need the volume in the tun and boiler. EDIT to add: My usual process collects 13 gallons of runnings, which get boiled down to 10-11. Fermcap helps a lot. Jo3sh fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 17:17
|
|
|
Today is "Screw it, I'm brewing!" day. I have malt, hops, and yeast in stock, so it's kitchen-sink recipe time! http://hopville.com/recipe/1023758/home-brew/kitchen-sink-all-bravo-spur-of-the-moment-brown-ale Jo3sh fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Dec 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 17:43
|
|
|
mindphlux posted:I'm curious about this, but a step further. how the heck do breweries with fixed pipes and CIP systems really get clean? it seems like any enclosed system where you can't run a brush through would be a magnet for gunk - I mean even let's assume you transfer off a primary fermentation from a vessel to some secondary tank, and yeast sludge, trub, etc is going through those pipes. Even if you cleaned it immediately, I can't see having many thousands of dollars worth of beer on the line and just trusting that a flush of PBW and starsan or whatever cleans your tubes. same goes for plate chillers, where protein rich wort is flowing through nook and cranny ville. And if you don't have sanitary CIP ready equipment, you'll probably find your trouble spots you need to break down and scrub and then start debating that investment into CIP ready because opening lines and going into vessels is a pain in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 19:23
|
|
|
Jo3sh posted:All you guys who use counterflow or plate chillers, how do you clean them after use, and how do you sanitize them before use? I have a plate chiller, I recirculate the boiling wort for 30 minutes, chill. To clean I alternate between flushing forward and reverse flow until no more particulates come out, about 4 times. Every other brew i'll recirculate hot PBW through it and my kettle to clean. The whole process is about 5 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 20:53
|
|
|
silver97232 posted:I have a plate chiller, I recirculate the boiling wort for 30 minutes, chill. To clean I alternate between flushing forward and reverse flow until no more particulates come out, about 4 times. Every other brew i'll recirculate hot PBW through it and my kettle to clean. The whole process is about 5 minutes. OK, that's about what I figured. I may have to add a return fitting to my boiler.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2011 21:54
|
|
|
Josh Wow posted:Hot enough water and the right chemicals will clean anything. For example to clean and sanitize our bottle filler we run about 40 gallons of hot water (at around 180*F), recirculate a hot caustic solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water, recirculate a phosphoric acid solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water and then run 40 gallons paraacetic acid. do you work for a brewery? don't think I ever realized that
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 04:40
|
|
|
I had an internship at a small rear end production brewery in Youngstown. When you've actually done more 'professional' brewing than homebrew, you really miss steam-jacketed brew kettles and glycol systems. A plus about homebrew is you never have to go full gloves and glasses to use cleaning chemicals.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 04:55
|
|
|
bssoil posted:So I've brewed two festabrew kits (cheating) and one extract brew. I did not much enjoy the extract brewing, partially because I suspect my LHBS has old stale extract and I saved no money vs. buying festabrew. Partial boils and all-grain brewing don't really go hand-in-hand, but look up mini-mash brewing. You basically mash a smaller amount of grain, and augment it with extract.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 05:14
|
|
|
Is there a good online source for whole hops? If I'm gonna do more lagers (I really want to), I want to strain out as much of the break material and hops as possible before primary. That's really hard to do with pellets. They don't stay in hop bags and they clog my strainer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 05:32
|
|
|
beetlo posted:Is there a good online source for whole hops? If I'm gonna do more lagers (I really want to), I want to strain out as much of the break material and hops as possible before primary. That's really hard to do with pellets. They don't stay in hop bags and they clog my strainer. Hopsdirect.com Freshhops.com If you want smaller quantities, your usual online sources like morebeer, northern brewer, austin homebrew, etc
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 05:39
|
|
|
Docjowles posted:Hopsdirect.com Thanks. No Hallertau on either, though. Well not the proper German variety at least. :\ I'm looking for in bulk. Vacuum sealer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 05:41
|
|
|
If those guys don't have it it may not be available in the quantities you want... the hop harvest already happened for the year. Maybe other brewers already jumped on it  You could look for other noble varieties or US derivatives as a backup.Or more likely there is another site I am forgetting where you can get them easily.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 05:50
|
|
|
I'll get the US substitute for now and keep an eye out for the next harvest. The substitute version is more expensive for some reason, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 06:21
|
|
|
Every batch I make is a new lesson to learn. Granted this is just my fourth batch. Today was my first time using whole hops instead of pellets. That stuff clogged my autosiphon when I was transferring to the fermenter, and then I broke the siphon trying to clear it. And then I still wound up with about a quart of wort left in the bottom of the kettle that I couldn't get out without pulling back a ton of hop leaves. Lesson learned: hop bag. My wife also bought me an immersion chiller as an early xmas present, so I tried that out today. I am amazed at how much better that works than the ice bath I was doing before. Thanks, thermodynamics!
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 07:50
|
|
|
Tettnanger Noble Hop Supremacy
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 08:02
|
|
|
indigi posted:Tettnanger Noble Hop Supremacy Really? My favorite noble is hallertau by a large margain, but I have not tried tettnanger. Labelpeelers dot com has good prices and still has Simcoe by the ounce. Out of hallertau and citra though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 08:25
|
|
|
kitten smoothie posted:Every batch I make is a new lesson to learn. Granted this is just my fourth batch. I learned alternate versions of this lesson this year : any solid chunky matter in your beer is to be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. I made a version of my blackberry ale a while back that used pureed frozen blackberries, and the seeds from that poo poo COMPLETELY hosed my entire world up. the beer was so goddamn delicious, but inevitably I got seeds stuck in the poppits in the out valve of my kegs. I ended up having to autosyphon my beer out of a keg, through a sieve, and into a bottling bucket, before racking back to another keg. I expected the oxidation to kill my beer, but it was still delicious for another week or so, which allowed it to be drunk. but jesus christ I will never allow solid matter beyond the boil kettle again. I had some cloves escape my cheesecloth in this last round of brewing, and though I think I found them all, I'm deathly afraid of repeating that prior situation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 08:27
|
|
|
mindphlux posted:do you work for a brewery? don't think I ever realized that Yea I work at Terrapin on the bottling/kegging line.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 13:19
|
|
|
Bottled my Roisboos tea beer experiment yesterday (1 gallon w/ brewed tea, 1 gallon with tea bags cold infused). The brewed somehow came out to exactly 7 bottles so I didn't try any of it, but I had some leftover of the cold infused and tasted it. Very, very dry and lots of tannin. The tea flavor came through, though. Looking forward to trying the 2 side by side in a couple of months.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 15:54
|
|
|
Retemnav posted:Bottled my Roisboos tea beer experiment yesterday (1 gallon w/ brewed tea, 1 gallon with tea bags cold infused). The brewed somehow came out to exactly 7 bottles so I didn't try any of it, but I had some leftover of the cold infused and tasted it. Very, very dry and lots of tannin. The tea flavor came through, though. Looking forward to trying the 2 side by side in a couple of months. When you do taste it, I'll be curious to hear about any chill haze you see in the beer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 16:12
|
|
|
Further to an earlier discussion about how high to fill 3-piece airlocks, I've employed my mastery of MSPaint to prepare a visual aid. The photo is an assembled but dry airlock. The green line indicates the top of the holes in the dancing hat. This is the minimum level to which you should fill this type of airlock. The orange line indicates the molded line in the airlock's main body. This is the maximum level to which you should fill the airlock. I typically fill to a point more toward the green line than the orange line. In event of temperature fluctuations, the makes the risk of suckback so small as to be dismissed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 18:19
|
|
|
Anyone have advice for shipping corked bottles? I want to take some back with me to AK, but I feel like the pressure/temperature fluctuations in the hold of the plane could easily remove the cork. Is ground shipping probably my only option?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 18:26
|
|
|
Jo3sh posted:When you do taste it, I'll be curious to hear about any chill haze you see in the beer. Made an evernote on it, hopefully I'll remember to post about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 19:28
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:Anyone have advice for shipping corked bottles? I want to take some back with me to AK, but I feel like the pressure/temperature fluctuations in the hold of the plane could easily remove the cork. Is ground shipping probably my only option? You are using cork cages, right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 19:48
|
|
|
Imasalmon posted:You are using cork cages, right? No. Are you referring to the sort of wire harness that goes on a champagne bottle? If so, these are just regular wine bottles with fully internal corks. It's not a carbonated beverage in the bottle.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 19:58
|
|
|
Still beverages in corked bottles should be pretty easy to ship - after all, wineries do it all the time. You might get some of those heatshrink capsules as an extra form of reassurance, then package in one of those molded styro inserts suitable for the number of bottles you intend. I would think that would be sufficient for either checked baggage or shipping via whatever carrier you like. Isn't "ground" shipping to AK usually air anyway?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 20:13
|
|
|
Naw, depending on where it's going, it'll sometimes end up in a container on a barge out of Seattle. My other option is to try to take it on the plane with me and I'm sort of tempted to just check a cooler and risk it. If it pops, at least it'll still be sealed in the cooler and I'll just need to do some washing when I get there. 
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Dec 5, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 20:17
|
|
|
My spies in Santa's shipping department have confirmed that a 40-plate chiller is headed my way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 20:17
|
|
|
Anyone have experience with any of the electric turkey fryers out there in terms of using them for brewing? I found a good price for this turkey fryer: http://www.brucefoods.com/mystOre/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=154&idcategory=28 I'm just unsure if it would get to the temperatures required for a boil since it doesn't note how much power the element puts out to heat the oil with. I'd love to get something like this for all-grain brewing in my apartment but I'm apprehensive given the lack of details.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 20:21
|
|
|
Amazon has it for less, plus free shiiping for Prime members: http://www.amazon.com/Cajun-Injector-Electric-Turkey-Fryer/dp/B002JQ3KQ4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323113502&sr=8-1 As a theoretical thing, if it can heat oil to 400 degrees, it will have no issue heating wort to boiling. Not sure if the immersed element will gunk up with the wort or whatever, but I know people do use similar types of things in all-electric brewing, so I am guessing it would work OK.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 20:35
|
|
|
Jo3sh posted:All you guys who use counterflow or plate chillers, how do you clean them after use, and how do you sanitize them before use? I dump mine in my bucket-O-starsan prior to use and let it fill up usually when I do my flavoring addition. It probably stays in there for 10ish minutes. I don't really watch the clock that carefully... I just have this set of things that I do in order from flavoring to brewpot drain and it starts with "drop therminator in starsan". I unkook the hoses and back flow the garden host through the wert chamber immediately after use until it runs clear. At the end of the day (I almost always do two batches in one day now unless I'm decoting something) I heat up ~3 gallons worth of a PBW solution. The hoses get hooked back up and I feed that solution from cold to too hot to touch in ~2-3 qt increments through the wert lines over ~20-30 minutes. Usually thats 4-5 pulls into a 3QT pot I use to catch it. I gravity feed my therminator so recirculating is a manual process. I recirculate all but the first pull. That first pull will end up being nearly the same color as the wert was so I chunk that bit to get a better idea of when it's running clear (usually form the 3rd pull on). If you're pumping I would assume a constant recirculate would be fine. Then unhook the hoses and I counter flow garden hose tap to clean all the PBW out for a minute or so and allow it to drain as best I can. From there I bake it in the oven at 400 for an hour (or sometimes over night when I forget/pass out). This isn't so much to clean or sterilize but to dry it up so no water induced oxidation can occur. Allow to cool and cap all for ports with the plastic caps that it shipped with to keep it air tight in storage. That sounds like a lot, but it's really not. Just a whole bunch of stuff I do anyways and work the therminator into the mix. The only specific thing is baking it in the oven. That's kinda cool cause the copper will discolor with that heat. Then the starsan at the next brewday shines it all up instantly like a new penny. Jo3sh posted:My spies in Santa's shipping department have confirmed that a 40-plate chiller is headed my way. You're going to love the extra 3" that adds to your penis.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 21:11
|
|
|
drewhead posted:You're going to love the extra 3" that adds to your penis. It's important, man. (I use two plate chillers now so I can run them together and get 10 gallons down to 45 degrees for lagering in less than 10 minutes  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 22:05
|
|
|
So I've just ordered a 40 qt pot from Amazon so that I can do larger boils. My mash tun is a converted sanky keg, so it can easily handle the grain for a 10 or even 15 gallon batch. Since I don't want 10 gallons of exactly the same beer, I'm trying to come up with ways of making two 5 or 6 gallon batches from a single boil of up to 10 gallons. It opens up a lot of options for testing the effects of different yeasts or other additions during primary and/or secondary. The plan for my next brew day is to mash a 9 gallon batch using a turbid mash w/ a target OG of 1.049, do one boil, and then split the batch into two fermenters. One will be a 5 gallon batch at full strength and the other will be diluted down to the 1.03 range. The stronger portion will become a lambic and weaker portion will become a berliner weisse. This works out because the grain bill for both recipes has the same ratio and the berliner weisse wants lower gravity and lower IBUs. I'm trying to think of what other combinations of styles I could use this setup for in order to brew two somewhat different beers from one 10-gallon boil. Maybe a dopplebock/dunkelweisse or something along those lines? I could also do two IPAs and dry hop them differently. I guess I could also boil half of it for longer to make a more bitter version as well. Maybe even add some extract to the longer-boiled portion to turn it into a double IPA. What else am I not thinking of? EDIT: Just to make things even more complicated, I guess I could do some parti-gyle style brewing and make another 5 gallons from the second runnings of my 10-gallon mash. I would have to do another boil, but then I could get 3 batches out of the same grain bill.... Acceptableloss fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 5, 2011 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 22:28
|
|
|
Hypnolobster posted:It's important, man. So you run the wort in one plate chiller and out into the next plate chiller? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 22:35
|
|
|
Josh Wow posted:Yea I work at Terrapin on the bottling/kegging line. oh awesome. I'm just over in Atlanta, so I'm well familiar - though have never gone out for the tour. thanks for answering the sanitizing question, that has boggled my mind about commercial breweries forever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2011 23:54
|
|
|
Racked two beers into kegs yesterday: 1) My "Sweet Maplewine" barleywine - holy god does it reek and taste like maple syrup! Too much so in fact, but I'm still pretty proud I hit the maple syrup flavor dead on - it's a 10.4% brew so it will have to sit for a while anyhow, hopefully the maple flavor/aroma subsides faster than the cascade I dry-hopped with, when I was able to catch it the cascade aroma smelled great and very complimentary to the rest of the brew. tl;dr - a kilo of jaggery and tablespoon of fenugreek is a tad too much mapley for even a very strong beer, also no matter how hard you try a kilo of sugars will think your beer out considerable, even with a ton of crystal malts and mashing at 158* this beer still ended up at 1.016 which is fine but I was hoping closer to 1.020 2) A "piano" porter ("chocolate" and vanilla) which tastes absolutely heavenly already and definitely needs a couple weeks to chill still. The chocolate flavors are not from cacao but a combination of chocolate and black patent malts as well as the bitterness from Norther brewer hops. We sliced up 3 fresh vanilla beans and soaked in 100mls of vodka for 1 week, with occasional stirring - adding the whole thing gave just the perfect amount of vanilla flavor. This one's definitely going to be a keeper.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2011 01:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 05:16 |
|
|
Super Rad posted:Racked two beers into kegs yesterday: Unfortunately, I've found cascade hop aroma fades pretty quickly. I brewed 2 SMaSH beers with Cascade hops and maris otter malt. The second I hit with 3 oz of cascade just after flameout. I dry hopped with 2 oz in the keg and it smelled and tasted awesome after 1 week. After another week the awesome bright floral hop character was replaced by a more pungent orange hop character which has remained since. maybe if I had removed the hops after 7-10 days I could have retained the character, but as of now i only dry hop in the keg.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2011 08:18
|
|