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I think the main problem with hunger is that you have to change the fundamental way you play minecraft to enjoy it. If you try to play minecraft the way you did pre-1.8, hunger is frustrating, and if you enjoyed minecraft the way it was you would not want to change. In good hunger news, apple trees are being added to the game.
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Dec 8, 2011 13:53
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tinaun posted:I think the main problem with hunger is that you have to change the fundamental way you play minecraft to enjoy it. If you try to play minecraft the way you did pre-1.8, hunger is frustrating, and if you enjoyed minecraft the way it was you would not want to change. In good hunger news, apple trees are being added to the game. I don't actually see a problem with the hunger mechanic, and I don't think it changes the way you play the game at any fundamental level at all, you needed food before hunger was added, what changed is how that food was used and how the timespan of the reward for using food changed. Before hunger, food use was reactionary, you used it when and only when you had lost some hearts, and then you got those hearts back as fast as you could eat bread/pork, now you use it preemptively so you can sprint and start regenerating health as soon as possible after losing it, and because it's a preemptive thing that you need to maintain we have the ability to stack food. There is more emphasis on food now, certainly, but I don't see how hunger makes things frustrating.
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Dec 8, 2011 14:20
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I agree that hunger should be an option, but I'm surprised that no one has even mentioned Harvest Moon. Yeah, it's more a fixture from Roguelikes, but I get a lot of satisfaction from getting a little farm set up. Stone hoes last forever in the early game too. As for starving early on, I usually skip a search for coal if it's not visible in nearby cliffs and use charcoal for my first night. I'll kill animals the first couple days pretty quickly, making sure to leave a couple of each kind in the area. Don't forget that you don't need a wheat farm to make a million chickens since their egg drop rate is really fast. If you can find a cave or make a lovely hill-side hovel instead of trying to build a pretty cabin, you'll be fine. Once you're past that, start a mushroom farm. It takes a lot less effort, provided you'll spend time around the chunk it's at. I don't understand the people who gripe about a simple farm being added to the start up sequence as such a thorn in the side, it's not obsidian, a click on each square does each step, then going to do something nearby like grinding some trees or doing other near-surface stuff you should be taking care of before you dive into the biggest hole in the ground you can find. Hell, if you stumble on an NPC village, you don't even need to farm, you'll have enough bread to last you through ridiculous dungeon dives. Oh, and zombie flesh is good eats right now, the "full" regeneration overtakes sickness, IIRC.
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Dec 8, 2011 14:28
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tinaun posted:In good hunger news, apple trees are being added to the game. I think a 0.5% chance of getting an apple from a tree doesn't really make it an "apple tree".
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Dec 8, 2011 14:28
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Good grief. SO apples will continue to be irritatingly rare. Do they not have apples in Sweden or something?
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Dec 8, 2011 14:51
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It's a 0.5% chance to drop per leaf block, having just checked trees seem to have around 50 of them, so it's more like a 25% chance of getting one apple per tree. Still not that common but not as incredibly rare as Fuego Fish's wording sounds.
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Dec 8, 2011 15:04
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But why not just make a new kind of tree that has apples on it? Limit it to a certain biome or make it sort of rare if you want, like wolves or giant mushrooms or snow, but it seems like a much nicer idea. Plus you could then craft like three apples and some sugar and some wheat and make an apple pie~
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Dec 8, 2011 15:13
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Has anyone here actually made a golden apple? They seem to require materials that far outweigh it's use.
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Dec 8, 2011 15:23
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kas posted:putting a cooldown timer on food based on the type of food eaten Times posted:I am okay with the hunger system. These are my thoughts. I would only add that farming Nether Wart is more annoying than it should be. All crops should be able to grow when the chunk isn't loaded, it's a really simple fix and should be in the game already.
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Dec 8, 2011 16:06
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Test Pilot Monkey posted:These are my thoughts. I would only add that farming Nether Wart is more annoying than it should be. All crops should be able to grow when the chunk isn't loaded, it's a really simple fix and should be in the game already. This really shouldn't be that hard. A simple "timeLastUnloaded" attribute on the chunk that gets compared with the current time when it gets loaded would allow all of the crops/etc to grow to where they would be when you enter the chunk.
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Dec 8, 2011 16:11
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Faraday Cage posted:It's a 0.5% chance to drop per leaf block, having just checked trees seem to have around 50 of them, so it's more like a 25% chance of getting one apple per tree. Still not that common but not as incredibly rare as Fuego Fish's wording sounds. Wow they have some weird conceptions as to how apple trees work in Mojang.
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Dec 8, 2011 16:28
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Maybe I'm unusual, but does anyone else load a Creative seed, fly around to find a good build site, write down the coordinates, and then make a new map with the same seed in Survival?
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Dec 8, 2011 16:29
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ChewyLSB posted:Wow they have some weird conceptions as to how apple trees work in Mojang. Yeah and don't get me started on their grasp of geology I mean HELLO!?!
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Dec 8, 2011 17:02
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ItalicSquirrels posted:Maybe I'm unusual, but does anyone else load a Creative seed, fly around to find a good build site, write down the coordinates, and then make a new map with the same seed in Survival? That's not a bad idea, really. The only thing I do that's close to this is play single player when our server is down just to play around with building and redstone designs, so that I can recreate it on the server when it's back up.
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Dec 8, 2011 17:13
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Sheep will now eat grass and grow back their wool.
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Dec 8, 2011 17:31
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ItalicSquirrels posted:Maybe I'm unusual, but does anyone else load a Creative seed, fly around to find a good build site, write down the coordinates, and then make a new map with the same seed in Survival? I just change the map to "survival mode" instead of remaking it as a new save.
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Dec 8, 2011 17:36
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Montalvo posted:Sheep will now eat grass and grow back their wool. So, is this cause and effect? As in, they will only regrow wool if they have grass to eat? Or is their eating of grass completely separate to the wool growth? And which grass is it that they eat?
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Dec 8, 2011 17:44
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Montalvo posted:Sheep will now eat grass and grow back their wool. loving finally. Now I can keep a wool farm that isn't tedious as hell to manage :}
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Dec 8, 2011 17:50
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I hope that isn't a cause and effect going on there, especially without the ability to plant or control the growth of grass.
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Dec 8, 2011 18:22
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ChewyLSB posted:Wow they have some weird conceptions as to how apple trees work in Mojang. 
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Dec 8, 2011 18:30
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BitBasher posted:I hope that isn't a cause and effect going on there, especially without the ability to plant or control the growth of grass.
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Dec 8, 2011 18:39
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I kinda assumed it just meant sheep had to be on grass blocks to regrow wool.
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Dec 8, 2011 18:42
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BitBasher posted:I hope that isn't a cause and effect going on there, especially without the ability to plant or control the growth of grass. If it's the tall grass they eat, you can use bonemeal to grow a patch of tall grass and flowers. I think that would be more fun than if they just ate the grass off the dirt tile, having to tend to the pasture if you want wool to grow.
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Dec 8, 2011 18:43
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Sheep eating grass will probably work out pretty well. I love building underground gardens and grass-paved tree farms, and before limited spawning I would have been scared shitless a sheep would spawn and eat all the grass it took me 3 years to creep down into the caves, but now you can just keep 'em out and/or work around it, and it should be a fun little quirk to see patches of dirt when traveling around. As far as hunger goes, it's another thing to prepare for in survival that you CAN ignore, but it has the consequences, and has a harsher penalty on the first day. If you don't find coal before sundown, night mining becomes prohibitively difficult. If you don't build shelter before first sundown, time for berserker monster fighting or digging a hole in the ground. If you don't get wool, no bed, can't skip night. Now with hunger, if you don't get something set up, depending on difficulty, you have issues up to forced death. It doesn't seem more unbalanced than the others necessarily, but I do personally seem to notice it more. If I die in a mine because I never found iron, I'm not pissed, bad luck. If I die because I walked into an abandoned mine after finding enough iron for armor and don't make it, again, not pissed. That's really on me. But every time those half-hearts start coming off, it just feels so annoying. Maybe because it's new? It does require a pretty high effort to get hunger out of the equation. One coal can get you underground finding more, once you have a shelter and a bed you're set there, but getting a wheat farm going alone can be tough. However, there's two really big things that make hunger matter a whole lot less. Chuck everything in a chest and suicide makes it a much more minor annoyance, and with swamp biomes being fairly findable, through the first night can still be tough, if you find one of each mushroom, just wait until morning, collect skeleton drops after they burn, have an overabundance of food that is easily renewable. Although I do wish mushroom soup stacked. Then it'd be perfect.
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Dec 8, 2011 18:57
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If it's long grass, you can collect it with shears! Then you can plant it again. Totally pointless, really.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:00
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From the arguments I'm hearing I suspect that people who are really raging against hunger want to be able to play on SUPER HARDCORE WAVES OF DEATH mode without having hunger as a major concern, since on lower difficulties you don't have the "dum de dum building a house gently caress STARVING TO DEATH" situation that people are complaining about anyway. Which suits me fine, because I'd like to be able to play on No Enemies mode and have hunger be a real concern. What I enjoy about Minecraft isn't enemies coming out of nowhere and a combat system I find clunky - it's building up from a guy punching down a tree to a comfortable and then perhaps an impressive home, and farming and ranching fits just fine into that mentality. It seems like the solution that would please everyone would be for difficulty to be two sliders - one for enemies that ranges from "no hostile mobs" to "there's a creeper in your pants", and one for hunger that ranges from "no hunger ever" to "get this man on a porkchop IV".
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Dec 8, 2011 19:05
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Penguingo posted:If it's long grass, you can collect it with shears! Then you can plant it again. Totally pointless, really. You can also just use bonemeal on normal grass and it will sprout long grass (and a flower or two, sometimes). Edit: Derp, didn't see the post above that says literally the same thing. More content: I generally don't mind the hunger bar. I don't play on hard, and on normal the decay is at a pretty decent rate - enough that you have to mind it sometimes, but not so much that you can't manage it without a massive farm. It allows me to make tinier, personal farms, which are more aesthetically pleasing for me anyway 
Wahad fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 8, 2011 |
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Dec 8, 2011 19:21
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Really, a skeleton dungeon is the "you've won the game" button now. I've got my 9x9 indoor wheat farm that I harvest and immediately regrow, and more arrows than I could ever possibly need. I pretty much have a full stack of bread on me at all times, and it's the only thing I ever bother eating. Ranching is cool and all, but having to chase cows/pigs around and then cook their meat is more bother than it's worth when bonemeal makes cropping so easy.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:32
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Boat posted:Really, a skeleton dungeon is the "you've won the game" button now. I've got my 9x9 indoor wheat farm that I harvest and immediately regrow, and more arrows than I could ever possibly need. I pretty much have a full stack of bread on me at all times, and it's the only thing I ever bother eating. Not to mention you can make a risk free exp vending machine. As long as you are ok breaking a few swords on hundreds of skeleton shin bones.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:36
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^^^ Again why the hell would you want to play like this? So many people are so worried about everything in this thread. I never have, and never will be stunted by hunger. There are literally a million things you can eat in the world. Barring that, planting a 9x9 wheat field will grant you enough food forever if you harvest when your hungry and replant. On top of that there are tons of animals, sure they don't respawn, but you can always breed them or hit a new chunk, as there are infinite. Eating food mid battle is stupid. Having a cool down timer on food eating is equally frustrating (look at terraria). Apples dropping at .05% per leaf block means running through a forest will net you A TON of apples. If you don't think this is the case, you should really look at how many leaf blocks there are per tree. I mean there is even mushrooms of both kinds found underground and in the loving nether now for christs sake. I think a lot of people here would be better suited for creative. edit: Also yes, you can cheese monster spawners neat. Enjoy playing your game like that. I fight enemies when I find them underground or at night like a man. I have several spawners by me I could build grinders for and leave my guy idle for ~free items~ but you don't have to. You literally don't need to in even the slightest way. I have more bones then I will ever need (8 stacks of 64 from the two weeks since my server has been up) and I have just collected those overtime from fighting monsters. Senator Woofington fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 8, 2011 |
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Dec 8, 2011 19:41
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Edminster posted:What? Toss some bonemeal onto a patch of grass, and it grows a bunch of wildgrass and flowers. Leadthumb posted:If it's the tall grass they eat, you can use bonemeal to grow a patch of tall grass and flowers. I think that would be more fun than if they just ate the grass off the dirt tile, having to tend to the pasture if you want wool to grow. Thanks! I had no idea, I just started playing this a few weeks ago. Some things about this game just aren't horribly obvious! Also as far as food goes, melons are the best option IMHO if you can get them. a 7x5 melon patch will grow 14 melons which never need to be replanted and usually yields a little more than a full stack of melons slices. Just re till the land and lo and behold, more melons when you come back. that's it. harvesting and retilling takes maybe 30 seconds and lasts for a good long while.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:55
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Senator Woofington posted:I fight enemies when I find them underground or at night like a man. Ah yes the gender roles and politics of minecraft.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:59
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Senator Woofington posted:edit: Also yes, you can cheese monster spawners neat. Enjoy playing your game like that. I fight enemies when I find them underground or at night like a man. I have several spawners by me I could build grinders for and leave my guy idle for ~free items~ but you don't have to. You literally don't need to in even the slightest way. I have more bones then I will ever need (8 stacks of 64 from the two weeks since my server has been up) and I have just collected those overtime from fighting monsters. Combat in Minecraft is boring as gently caress. It consists of either bashing something as it unerringly attempts to walk directly toward you (because it has no AI whatsoever) or shooting at range from a bow as it unerringly attempts to walk directly toward you (because it has no AI whatsoever). There is nothing gripping or engaging about that. There are no attack animations that signal the mob is about to attack, so blocking is pointless. There are no special attacks to vary combat, except for the creeper's obnoxious ability to explode. The mob walks toward you, you hit it while walking backwards to not die. It is literally less complex than Rock'em-Sock'em Robots. Believe it or not, some people find doing incredibly tedious things like that to be incredibly tedious, especially if it's expected of them to do it dozens of times every night, over and over. Especially when they could be doing something reasonably more productive, even when the list of productive activities in Minecraft is a pretty short one. But they could be mining, crafting, brewing, anything but waving a sword at an enemy with less brains than a loving moth. As soon as combat in Minecraft becomes at least as interesting as the combat in, say, Doom, then you'd better loving believe that sensible people are going to continue to opt to farm monsters instead of romping about at night like a Goddamn idiot with delusions of machismo.
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Dec 8, 2011 19:59
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I know that this isn't the mod thread, but WalledCities and GreatWall have vastly improved Minecraft combat for me, I think it's the way the templates for dungeons are designed. My favorite structures are referred to in the logs as "Battle Basements"  It didn't change the core gameplay much (aside from all the ridiculous treasure) but I managed to get to Level 20 relatively quickly and have all the arrows and string I could ever need, AND it encourages me to explore my world to find new dungeons and hostile cities!
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Dec 8, 2011 20:04
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:When you boil it down, in Minecraft, keeping your hunger bar full lets you regen health. So in other words, food gives you health. But you have to keep maintaining it every ten minutes regardless of your actions in the world, Not true. How quickly you lose food/gain hunger is directly related to how much you move around. Activities that limit your movement, such as mining or crafting, give hardly any hunger at all. If you AFK you will not gain any hunger at all.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:26
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Schwarzwald posted:Not true. How quickly you lose food/gain hunger is directly related to how much you move around. Activities that limit your movement, such as mining or crafting, give hardly any hunger at all. Piloting a boat is also a non-hunger activity. Helps for those long explorations.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:31
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Schwarzwald posted:Not true. How quickly you lose food/gain hunger is directly related to how much you move around. Activities that limit your movement, such as mining or crafting, give hardly any hunger at all. Yeah. From the wiki: quote:foodLevel ranges from 0 to 20 and is represented by your Food Bar. So from completely full, you can walk 16,000 blocks, or run 1600, swim 10,666 blocks, jump 8000 times, sprint-jump 2000 times, break 6400 blocks (which would require burning through 4 of the same diamond tool), attack or get attacked 5,333 times, or sit through 10 food poisoning events. And as others have said, riding a minecart or piloting a boat or riding a pig = 0 hunger increase.
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Dec 8, 2011 20:44
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:Hunger is always poo poo in games unless you're into spergy roguelikes. It is poo poo in Minecraft. Really, I think the original lack of a hunger system made it more survival based. When going in caves you had to managed inventory between healing items, tools, ores you mined, and chests if you wanted to store anything incase you got killed. You had a limited amount of health and healing so you had to be careful and try to avoid getting hit. now? If a creeper blows up on me I dont give a poo poo, I just stuff my character's face full of a stack of 64 melons or bread and just keep on going. Tengames fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 8, 2011 |
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Dec 8, 2011 21:01
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So, I'm having some ridiculous crash errors with Minecraft. I think I know what's up, but I need the error log to properly troubleshoot them. Does the software dump the log to an output file? The software crashes to black before the screen that displays the error log can display it.
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Dec 8, 2011 21:03
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 Mob Eggs are wonderful. 
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Dec 8, 2011 21:08
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