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Bobby The Rookie posted:I can't quite remember if the conclusion of James' subplot comes before or after that- I want to say after, in which case you're still in for something much worse that doesn't even have the benefit of being as insanely ridiculous as what you've just witnessed. No, it's before. I remember because after James's subplot I put down the series for a couple months and came back to the drawer pull. That's made a lot more bearable if you watch it on DVD with the Log Lady intro though (which was written by Lynch), where even she seems confused and straining to justify it. The Log Lady intros for the second half in general are great, because a lot of them is Lynch kind of rolling his eyes and trying to justify stuff he clearly wishes hadn't been in the show. At one point she gives up and just talks about how great pie is.
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Dec 10, 2011 15:31
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The Triumphant posted:That's made a lot more bearable if you watch it on DVD with the Log Lady intro though (which was written by Lynch), where even she seems confused and straining to justify it. The Log Lady intros for the second half in general are great, because a lot of them is Lynch kind of rolling his eyes and trying to justify stuff he clearly wishes hadn't been in the show. At one point she gives up and just talks about how great pie is. Yeah, I thought the Log Lady intro was a bit odd, even by Log Lady standards, when she started talking about drawer pulls. But I thought it would be a red herring or something bugged Windom Earle, not where Josie Packard's soul gets trapped in.
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Dec 10, 2011 15:35
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FelixMeOneMoreTime posted:I finished the episode with the drawer pull. I really wish they ended it with the reveal of Laura's murderer, it's just stupid now. Please say it doesn't get worse than Josie being trapped in a loving drawer pull. I honestly don't think it gets any worse. As I recall, the scene you're talking about is like the absolute lowest point of the entire series - because I remember watching that scene and thinking the same thing as you. You've definitely reached the point of no return with regard to season 2, and at this point you really should stick around, because the Lynch-directed finale is a REALLY excellent episode. Definitely one of the best in the entire series. I don't think it redeems the latter part of season 2 (what could?) but it ends the series in proper style. Plus, there's Fire Walk With Me for you to watch, assuming you haven't seen it. And I really think that's one of the best films Lynch ever made - possibly the best one if you've seen the entire show.
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Dec 10, 2011 15:43
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Ugh, I can't stand that they brought The Man From Another place back for that scene. Such a blatant and pathetic (and lazy) grasp at trying to bring back the weirdness of the early Lynch episodes. And Bob calling Cooper "Coop" really really annoyed me for some reason. I really do wish Lynch hadn't thrown in the towel and just stuck around. I know he was making a movie, which obviously was more creatively satisfying for him since his hands were tied with the network, but he seemed to really love Twin Peaks and its a shame it had to get that low and just barely recover with the last episode. kaworu posted:Plus, there's Fire Walk With Me for you to watch, assuming you haven't seen it. And I really think that's one of the best films Lynch ever made - possibly the best one if you've seen the entire show. Cromulent fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 16:16
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Cromulent posted:When it comes to creepy weirdness, I think FWWM is definitely at the top of Lynch's films, especially in regard to sound. The overall plot/story was just way too out there and confusing to me, even when you completely ignore the fact that it has none of the charm/humor of the series. It's not bad, but it didn't completely grasp me and leave me thinking about it at the end like Mullholland Drive did. I rented this on VHS in high school at least 10 or 12 years ago without having seen any of Lynch's other work, let alone Twin Peaks. I remember watching it in the dark, and thinking that it was extremely weird, made no sense, and I definitely felt more of a horror vibe than anything. Since I just finished watching the show earlier this year, I definitely need to revisit FWWM.
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Dec 10, 2011 16:39
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I don't mind Josie's death nearly as much as some of the other weak moments (like Ben's bizarre, not-really-prompted breakdown where he goes from panicking and questioning some of his decisions to being a really goofy lunatic). I just really love how cruel and petulant Bob comes off in it. One of the things Lynch does that I love is that his view of evil is really crude and self-centered-- characters like Bob, Frank Booth, or Bobby Peru aren't grandiose and elegant villains, they're gross and offputting and repellent. He's also not afraid of making his heroes be really good, rather than antiheroes. Cooper in particular is really noble, kind, and generous. Laura Dern said that he's essentially a man with a very dark and twisted imagination and a childishly innocent view of love and goodness. Cromulent posted:I really do wish Lynch hadn't thrown in the towel and just stuck around. I know he was making a movie, which obviously was more creatively satisfying for him since his hands were tied with the network, but he seemed to really love Twin Peaks and its a shame it had to get that low and just barely recover with the last episode. Honestly, as sad as the show's decline was, I think Wild at Heart was a pretty decent trade. That movie is so stupid and weird and campy but God, I can't help but love Nic Cage doing an Elvis impression, Harry Dean Stanton as the perpetually bored PI, and Willem Defoe being the creepiest he's ever been. Also like 6 Twin Peaks actors are in it, so if you like Twin Peaks, it has Audrey wandering around puking blood and Laura Palmer as Glinda the Good Witch of the North.
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Dec 10, 2011 17:08
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Last night I watched The People Under The Stairs, and was caught off-guard by Ed & Nadine Hurley playing the main villains in the movie!
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Dec 10, 2011 17:24
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The final few episodes have definitely made up for the dip in quality of episodes between Leland's death and Josie becoming a drawer pull. The final episode was good, but the unnecessary deaths of Audrey and Pete were a bit of a gently caress you. The very end bummed me out, I didn't exactly expect a happy ending but I didn't think Cooper would get corrupted. Does Fire Walk With Me shed any light on the ending? I really don't want Cooper to have a bad ending.
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Dec 12, 2011 19:31
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FelixMeOneMoreTime posted:The final few episodes have definitely made up for the dip in quality of episodes between Leland's death and Josie becoming a drawer pull. The final episode was good, but the unnecessary deaths of Audrey and Pete were a bit of a gently caress you. The very end bummed me out, I didn't exactly expect a happy ending but I didn't think Cooper would get corrupted. Does Fire Walk With Me shed any light on the ending? I really don't want Cooper to have a bad ending. Ah, I'm glad you stuck with it and enjoyed it. The finale is a bit of a gently caress-you at times, but I still feel it's kind of appropriate given how insanely out-of-whack everything gets. As to your last question about FWWM - Yes, if you look closely and pay attention and think about what happens in the movie, why it happens, when it happens, and the nature of the black/white lodges... You will have a better understanding of what happened in the series finale. It will shed some light both on what was happening there (to some extent) and on some things that happened much earlier on in the show. The thing about FWWM is that it's a prequel in a couple different ways. It was initially meant to be two films, actually - one film about Dale Cooper and the Teresa Banks investigation, and another film about the last couple weeks in Laura Palmer's life. Kyle MacLachlan was fearful of being typecast and did not want a big role, so Chris Isaak replaces him by playing a new FBI character, and the Teresa Banks portion was edited down to more of an opening vignette, while the movie mostly consists of Laura Palmer's last days. That said, even though chronologically it is a pure prequel, there are many revelations about the mythology of the series and the nature of the good and bad Lodge spirits that will explain a great deal about the ending. Bear in mind that time is all mixed up in the Lodges, as well - this is important and very key when it comes to understanding certain scenes in FWWM.
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Dec 12, 2011 20:06
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FelixMeOneMoreTime posted:The final few episodes have definitely made up for the dip in quality of episodes between Leland's death and Josie becoming a drawer pull. The final episode was good, but the unnecessary deaths of Audrey and Pete were a bit of a gently caress you. The very end bummed me out, I didn't exactly expect a happy ending but I didn't think Cooper would get corrupted. Does Fire Walk With Me shed any light on the ending? I really don't want Cooper to have a bad ending. If it helps, in the original script Audrey and Pete didn't die, just Catherine, her husband, and the teller. By that point the show's gone on so many detours that you may as well just embrace that instead.
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Dec 12, 2011 20:18
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The Triumphant posted:If it helps, in the original script Audrey and Pete didn't die, just Catherine, her husband, and the teller. By that point the show's gone on so many detours that you may as well just embrace that instead. I wonder why they changed it. That's a more suitable ending for those characters, because Pete and Audrey definitely didn't deserve to die. I was pleasantly surprised about Andy, Dick and Lucy not getting a bad ending. Their subplot was fantastic, and the chemistry between the three was a nice counter to James sucking all the joy from my life whenever he appeared on screen
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Dec 12, 2011 21:22
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He means that it would have been revealed in season 3 that those characters survived. I mean, it's ambiguous as it is.
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Dec 12, 2011 21:33
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Parachute posted:Last night I watched The People Under The Stairs, and was caught off-guard by Ed & Nadine Hurley playing the main villains in the movie! Holy poo poo, first time I watched Twin Peaks I immediately recognized Ed Hurley as being the dad dude in the creepy leather suit in The People Under the Stairs and the awesome werewolf priest from Silver Bullet, but I never realized Nadine was in The People Under the Stairs too. Gotta watch that one again now, it'll make the movie even more ridiculous!
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Dec 18, 2011 09:07
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So I just burned through the series and have a lot of the same thoughts as you all: Awesome show except for those 5-6 episodes in season 2 that were seriously torturously boring to sit through, I couldn't believe how bad they were. I'm mostly upset because I loved the finale but hated that the show ended there because clearly if Lynch could have done a season 3 there would be a hell of main story and there could be more of an explanation of the lodges and the nature of the spirits we have seen on the show. Does the movie divulge into anything regarding the Black Lodge?
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Dec 19, 2011 05:15
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i am not so sure posted:Does the movie divulge into anything regarding the Black Lodge? The movie does a lot about the mythology and cosmos of the show, so it explains a lot about how the Black Lodge works and what the spirits in it are. It's pretty mum on what happens to Coop, though, although there are some vague suggestions. It's great if you want more of the world and the spirits, less so if you want any plot resolution. Also David Bowie's in it. Lynch's film Lost Highway takes place in the same universe and plays by similar rules and logic, so while I can't say it would help you understand anything (being pretty drat cryptic) it may flesh out the world more for you and give you some more tools and ideas to approach the show with. Basically though I don't try to apply logic or consistency to the world. Just roll with what happens. It's what Coop would do.
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Dec 19, 2011 05:29
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The Triumphant posted:Lynch's film Lost Highway takes place in the same universe and plays by similar rules and logic, so while I can't say it would help you understand anything (being pretty drat cryptic) it may flesh out the world more for you and give you some more tools and ideas to approach the show with.
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Dec 19, 2011 05:57
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Just watched the Dual Spires episode of Psych. I enjoyed it, but I don't think I would have if I hadn't already seen Twin Peaks. In fact, I'm pretty sure I would've been totally lost.
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Dec 19, 2011 07:10
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Can't think of anywhere else to put this, but this weeks New York Times Magazine had a cover that gave me horrible flashbacks. Eraserhead is still the only Lynch film that I haven't seen twice, gently caress that lizard baby. Definitely the most gross-out unsettling film I've ever seen. Out of all the characters to pick for the cover, they definitely chose correctly. But Brad Pitt as Peter Lorre, holy poo poo. I didn't even realize it was him when I saw the cover, just seeing Peter Lorre in full color completely threw me off.
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Dec 19, 2011 07:44
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Thats loving awesome!!!!!
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Dec 20, 2011 05:28
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FelixMeOneMoreTime posted:The final few episodes have definitely made up for the dip in quality of episodes between Leland's death and Josie becoming a drawer pull. The final episode was good, but the unnecessary deaths of Audrey and Pete were a bit of a gently caress you. The very end bummed me out, I didn't exactly expect a happy ending but I didn't think Cooper would get corrupted. Does Fire Walk With Me shed any light on the ending? I really don't want Cooper to have a bad ending. Cooper isn't corrupted as such, he's absent from his body. He is chilling in the White Lodge iirc, although it's been a while. I imagine if the series had continued he would have made a return in time. Also I have been watching a Let's Play of Deadly Premonition and gently caress me does that game capture the Twin Peaks feel well. In some ways it is also better because it isn't so variable in narrative quality and there's less focus on boring subplots. Obviously the aesthetic isn't quite as good, but that's hard to capture. Edit: talked about on the previous page but had to echo it. Also it tickles me that they made the Cooper analogue have even more bizarre behaviour that makes him seem like a bit of a jerk. But watch an LP, don't play it, because the actual gameplay mechanics are pretty garbage. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Dec 20, 2011 |
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Dec 20, 2011 12:12
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Neurosis posted:Also it tickles me that they made the Cooper analogue have even more bizarre behaviour that makes him seem like a bit of a jerk. York is pretty much "if Dale Cooper was autistic." I would also actually recommend playing it, just on the easiest difficulty-- the sheer brokenness of some sections and things like the stupid, stupid racing segments are pretty hilarious in their own right. I'm so glad I went into it with very little foreknowledge and got surprised by things like "oh hey, a giant dog!"
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Dec 20, 2011 14:38
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The Triumphant posted:York is pretty much "if Dale Cooper was autistic." I laughed several times while watching Deadly Premonition because of York's autism. Telling the police officers there in general conversation about how normal police work and the FBI's work were comparable by giving the example of a case where a man would murder women and drink from and piss in their skulls (often the same skull!) is probably my favourite part. His fixation on '80s films also gave my American Psycho vibes but that is neither here nor there. Cooper is good, but Cooper played like an autist with an invisible friend is apparently better. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 20, 2011 |
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Dec 20, 2011 17:06
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Neurosis posted:I laughed several times while watching Deadly Premonition because of York's autism. Telling the police officers there in general conversation about how normal police work and the FBI's work were comparable by giving the example of a case where a man would murder women and drink from and piss in their skulls (often the same skull!) is probably my favourite part. His fixation on '80s films also gave my American Psycho vibes but that is neither here nor there. "But the thing that got me... he would drink out of the same skulls he urinated in! So unsanitary. He was clearly insane." *takes a drink of beer, looks around, wonders why everyone's staring.*
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Dec 20, 2011 20:34
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The Triumphant posted:"But the thing that got me... he would drink out of the same skulls he urinated in! So unsanitary. He was clearly insane." So, this ingenious law student. He'd committed 800 rapes. Do you want to know how?
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Dec 20, 2011 22:58
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Rewatching season 1 of Twin Peaks with knowledge of the mythology is massively confusing. Spoilers ahead: The dwarf claims the Laura Palmer lookalike is his cousin (which Maddy is obviously nothing close to; Maddy if anything appears closer to the White Lodge spirits than Laura could ever have been). He (the dwarf) then claims to be from a place where birds sing and there is music in the air. But that is the White Lodge, NOT the black. Mike seems to be in dispute with Bob over... Questions of prey (which is fair enough). Mike seems a lot more clever than he appears later on. It almost seems like the writers didn't know what would come, but there are too many 1:1 correlations with later events/personas that obviously they knew a lot. It seems like the writers of season 2 (prior to the last few eps) got a manuscript with pages torn out.
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Dec 20, 2011 23:12
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Because I played Deadly Premonition before watching Twin Peaks, I was expecting Cooper to be far more alien to the rest of the characters. I was pleasantly surprised that Coop became a beloved member of the community, compared to Special Agent Francis York Morgan (call him York, everyone does) who was constantly met with justified looks of revulsion whenever he opened his mouth. Also, I've been thinking about the last few episodes, and I still can't work out why Josie lost about 40 or 50 pounds upon dying. I guess it was meant to be creepy, but I can't get my head around why it might have happened.
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Dec 21, 2011 00:42
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Neurosis posted:Rewatching season 1 of Twin Peaks with knowledge of the mythology is massively confusing. I think he's just talking in riddles - like most of the spirits do - rather than actually meaning any of that literally.
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Dec 21, 2011 03:01
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Neurosis posted:It almost seems like the writers didn't know what would come They didn't-- Lynch didn't even decide to use BOB until they were editing the pilot, and the mythology of the series was up in the air for most of its run. Even after they decided "this sketchy guy with the denim jacket killed Laura" it wasn't until they were several episodes in that they decided what exactly he was. It makes sense. The show is so much about dreams and drawing meaning out of chaos that it's appropriate for the show itself to have been so incredibly up-in-the-air for most of its run.
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Dec 21, 2011 05:16
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This is just....I think it's loving fantastic, but it won't be everyone's cup of...coffee. http://twinpeaksrap.bandcamp.com/album/kissing-hands-and-shaking-babies It's a hip hop group called Twin Peaks whose music is laced with tons of (obviously) Twin Peaks and David Lynch references. poo poo is pretty good too. At least I think so.
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Dec 21, 2011 06:22
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I don't think anyone give enough credit to just how terrifying Laura Palmer's sudden loving SCREAMING in the Black Lodge is. I mean... JESUS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaERnvOY0mQ
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Dec 21, 2011 09:23
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Zero Karizma posted:I don't think anyone give enough credit to just how terrifying Laura Palmer's sudden loving SCREAMING in the Black Lodge is. I mean... JESUS. That face is just loving TERRIFYING. I watched that episode at like 3 am and didn't sleep that night. Fuuuuck.
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Dec 21, 2011 12:00
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slowfoot posted:I think he's just talking in riddles - like most of the spirits do - rather than actually meaning any of that literally. You're probably right. I've been reading too much Gene Wolfe, where everything means everything. I've watched to the first few episodes of season 2, where poo poo got awful, before, but this time I will persist until when Lynch picks it up again. I was actually kind of shocked when I read how haphazard the development of the mythos was, although it seemed reasonably developed once the first few episodes were screened.
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Dec 23, 2011 12:32
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FelixMeOneMoreTime posted:Also, I've been thinking about the last few episodes, and I still can't work out why Josie lost about 40 or 50 pounds upon dying. I guess it was meant to be creepy, but I can't get my head around why it might have happened. This is one of those things in Twin Peaks that you just have to go with. 
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Dec 23, 2011 12:47
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Neurosis posted:I've watched to the first few episodes of season 2, where poo poo got awful, before, but this time I will persist until when Lynch picks it up again. It's a long haul, since you don't really see any of his involvement again until the very last episode. Nevertheless, it's a doozy.
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Dec 23, 2011 17:49
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Not to nitpick, but the first several episodes of season 2 are actually amazing. It doesn't start to get lovely until episode 10 of season 2. I think some people forget that the first season was so short. The first two episodes of season 2 (both directed by Lynch) are my favorites of the series. Some of the silliest and also most surreal moments are in those episodes, sometimes out of the blue I'll just watch those two episodes as if it were a movie, since it's almost 3 hours.
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Dec 23, 2011 18:16
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Cromulent posted:Not to nitpick, but the first several episodes of season 2 are actually amazing. It doesn't start to get lovely until episode 10 of season 2. I think some people forget that the first season was so short. The first two episodes of season 2 (both directed by Lynch) are my favorites of the series. Some of the silliest and also most surreal moments are in those episodes, sometimes out of the blue I'll just watch those two episodes as if it were a movie, since it's almost 3 hours. Yeah, I thought the series got better and better until episode 10 of season 2, when Laura's killer is revealed and apprehended. After that, it gets worse and worse with the James subplot, then after the death of Josie in episode 16 of season 2, it starts getting really good again.
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Dec 23, 2011 21:07
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I found this picture on my hard drive and it cracked me up --  I can't tell if he's in character or not!
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Dec 25, 2011 19:00
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The photographer was found dead a week later under mysterious circumstances.
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Dec 25, 2011 20:46
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Data Graham posted:The photographer was found dead a week later under mysterious circumstances. Was he Asian? I read somewhere that "ASIAN MAN KILLED!!"
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Dec 25, 2011 22:26
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The Triumphant posted:That's made a lot more bearable if you watch it on DVD with the Log Lady intro though (which was written by Lynch), where even she seems confused and straining to justify it. The Log Lady intros for the second half in general are great, because a lot of them is Lynch kind of rolling his eyes and trying to justify stuff he clearly wishes hadn't been in the show. At one point she gives up and just talks about how great pie is. The drawer pull was actually Lynch's idea, according to Mark Frost. I believe this was discussed on one of the special features of the Gold box set. I think it wouldn't seem so awful if the effect hadn't aged so poorly, I honestly always thought it was a good scene (and kinda creepy) even though the CG looked so bad. It totally strikes me as something Lynch would come up with too, someone becoming trapped in a piece of furniture. I also thought BOB and the Man From Another Place showing up was fitting too. BOB was attracted to her fear, and MFAP was "the arm" who killed with BOB when he was still a part of Mike, and despite helping Coop at times he still seems to have a relationship with BOB, so it made sense that he'd be there too. At least that's the conclusion I've come to after so many viewings of the show and FWWM. Edit: law abiding rapist posted:But Brad Pitt as Peter Lorre, holy poo poo. I didn't even realize it was him when I saw the cover, just seeing Peter Lorre in full color completely threw me off. I do like the picture (although Pitt just can't capture that same intensity in Jack Nance's eyes that made Henry so captivating for such a mild-mannered character), but something I've been wondering ever since I've seen it - why do people keep mentioning Peter Lorre in relation to this picture? And since the photo series is called "Touch of Evil" and features celebrities as classic film villains, how does Henry from Eraserhead fit into that exactly? Still, seeing Pitt do Henry really makes me miss Jack Nance, he was such an awesome actor. Gatekeeper fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 26, 2011 |
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Dec 26, 2011 06:28
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