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Klenath
Aug 12, 2005

Shigata ga nai.
I've dealt with a DMX-4-2500 & a Celerra NAS gateway at work for ~2 years now. One of the many standby power supply (SPS) battery units in the DMX-4 disk cabinets go bad every 4-6 weeks. Otherwise, both systems have been incredibly stable and provide some really solid performance. Both are used for production & development storage needs. The price we got fit our budget well, the gear met our many storage needs we were consolidating (including growth projections/needs) perfectly, and we managed to cut operating costs.

The nature of getting service on a DMX-4 is pretty black box. EMC doesn't want to let you into the system in the SP cabinet to run their super secret scripts to resolve system errors or perform post-FRU swap re-checks. Even their on-site folks have to call into EMC to get a special one-time use login/pass combo every time. They used to have the RSA SecurID key fob things, until that got hacked earlier this year. To this end, EMC has us by the nuts for the upcoming service contract renewal - and we know it won't be pretty.

We're standing up a VNX-5700 as our DR SAN in a new data center. The amount of "these two don't play nice together for data replication" articles I've read on PowerLink have me worried. I'm not surprised due to the generation gap and significant architecture change, though the shared underlying Enginuity code on both systems should be able to bridge the gap. Only time will tell that tale.

EMC's PowerLink makes me want to crawl under my desk and weep some days. :(

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Erwin
Feb 17, 2006

Klenath posted:

EMC's PowerLink makes me want to crawl under my desk and weep some days. :(

Every time I have to use that shitfest and get one of those "Survey's on behalf of EMC" emails I fill it out so god damned hard :argh:

I'm not normally one for surveys, but somehow rating everything about Powerlink as absolutely atrocious helps me get through my day.

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Klenath posted:

I've dealt with a DMX-4-2500 & a Celerra NAS gateway at work for ~2 years now. One of the many standby power supply (SPS) battery units in the DMX-4 disk cabinets go bad every 4-6 weeks. Otherwise, both systems have been incredibly stable and provide some really solid performance. Both are used for production & development storage needs. The price we got fit our budget well, the gear met our many storage needs we were consolidating (including growth projections/needs) perfectly, and we managed to cut operating costs.

The nature of getting service on a DMX-4 is pretty black box. EMC doesn't want to let you into the system in the SP cabinet to run their super secret scripts to resolve system errors or perform post-FRU swap re-checks. Even their on-site folks have to call into EMC to get a special one-time use login/pass combo every time. They used to have the RSA SecurID key fob things, until that got hacked earlier this year. To this end, EMC has us by the nuts for the upcoming service contract renewal - and we know it won't be pretty.

See my post a fw days ago about service contracts. All expected costs should be on all the quotes you had from EMC (if you deal direct), make sure it matches up.

quote:

We're standing up a VNX-5700 as our DR SAN in a new data center. The amount of "these two don't play nice together for data replication" articles I've read on PowerLink have me worried. I'm not surprised due to the generation gap and significant architecture change, though the shared underlying Enginuity code on both systems should be able to bridge the gap. Only time will tell that tale.

EMC's PowerLink makes me want to crawl under my desk and weep some days. :(

I'm confused.

There is no generation gap, architecture change or shared code! The DMX-4 and VNX-5700 are two completely different platforms.

The VNX is a Clariion/Celerra combo. It is not a generation of Symmetrix and it runs an OS called FLARE, not enginuity. These two do not natively replicate.

They can be made to replicate by using RecoverPoint, which doesn't care about the underlying platform.

Klenath
Aug 12, 2005

Shigata ga nai.

Vanilla posted:

The VNX is a Clariion/Celerra combo. It is not a generation of Symmetrix and it runs an OS called FLARE, not enginuity. These two do not natively replicate.

You're right - I mentally mixed VNX and VMAX and wrote my post while thinking about the wrong one. Whoops!

We wanted to go VMAX for the DR SAN (so we could grow it for production and not just DR use at some point), but our CIO stole almost all of the DR SAN money for some pet project so we had to go with a VNX line instead.


EDIT:

Vanilla posted:

See my post a fw days ago about service contracts. All expected costs should be on all the quotes you had from EMC (if you deal direct), make sure it matches up.

You mean for service contract renewals?

I work at a state university, so we bought the DMX off a procurement contract vehicle we have with Dell to get the purchase done quickly and easily. All of our talks were with EMC directly, though, which made the DMX we bought much better sized (and priced) for us than if we fumbled through it with Dell. I'll have to dig up the original quote to see what it does or doesn't have for expected service contract renewal costs.

We used a different contract vehicle for the VNX purchase, which we'll pretty much have to use instead of going the Dell vehicle route with all the bad blood in the Dell-EMC water now. Not sure if/how that would affect the cost. For giggles we had Dell quote us the VNX-5700 hardware we worked out with EMC directly, which was about the time Dell finished their Compellent purchase and was selling it HARD. Dell wouldn't budge on the EMC price they quoted which was about 4x more expensive than the "direct" from EMC price off the other contract. I'm pretty sure Dell's doing everything it can to sever its ties with EMC.

Klenath fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Dec 2, 2011

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Klenath posted:

You're right - I mentally mixed VNX and VMAX and wrote my post while thinking about the wrong one. Whoops!

We wanted to go VMAX for the DR SAN (so we could grow it for production and not just DR use at some point), but our CIO stole almost all of the DR SAN money for some pet project so we had to go with a VNX line instead.


It happens. However, i'm wondering how you are going to get the two to replicate?

The DMX > Clariion/VNX replication with RecoverPoint is quite common but I always hated the idea.

quote:

You mean for service contract renewals?

I work at a state university, so we bought the DMX off a procurement contract vehicle we have with Dell to get the purchase done quickly and easily. All of our talks were with EMC directly, though, which made the DMX we bought much better sized (and priced) for us than if we fumbled through it with Dell. I'll have to dig up the original quote to see what it does or doesn't have for expected service contract renewal costs.

We used a different contract vehicle for the VNX purchase, which we'll pretty much have to use instead of going the Dell vehicle route with all the bad blood in the Dell-EMC water now. Not sure if/how that would affect the cost. For giggles we had Dell quote us the VNX-5700 hardware we worked out with EMC directly, which was about the time Dell finished their Compellent purchase and was selling it HARD. Dell wouldn't budge on the EMC price they quoted which was about 4x more expensive than the "direct" from EMC price off the other contract. I'm pretty sure Dell's doing everything it can to sever its ties with EMC.

Any EMC quote you get has post coverage costs at the bottom. You need to add up the costs fo the original array and subsequent upgrades and you'll have the cost to extend support for another few years.

The EMC and Dell relationship is dead. Not surprised they did that with the quote, they did it to all their Clariion customers to get them to move over to their platforms....and mostly failed. Latest IDC figures have EMC going up and Dell going down and trying hard to stay out of the 'others' catagory despite their best efforts.

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Serfer posted:

Dual pathing, dual redundant controllers, dual power supplies everywhere, battery backup on the controller, I'm not sure what kind of redundancy you're implying doesn't exist outside of EMC. Netapp, 3Par, even tiny little Pogo has those.

Hell even SATA beast claims all that.

With all this great redundancy does Compellent claim five nines yet? or even had it independently verified?

Klenath
Aug 12, 2005

Shigata ga nai.

Vanilla posted:

It happens. However, i'm wondering how you are going to get the two to replicate?

The DMX > Clariion/VNX replication with RecoverPoint is quite common but I always hated the idea.

Part of the original plan (since it was originally going to be VMAX) was to use SRDF/S. Since we were budget-forced into a VNX, it'll be RecoverPoint. My group made it painfully clear to our CIO that's not the path we recommended to him when the project started. I'm sure it didn't sink in and he'll get amnesia about it. :(

None of the DR related stuff is close to implementation yet, partially because upper management drug its feet with the purchase. The other part is because the data center the VNX is going into is still being built out to be useful in general and for this specific need. I can't wait! :smithicide:

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Klenath posted:

Part of the original plan (since it was originally going to be VMAX) was to use SRDF/S. Since we were budget-forced into a VNX, it'll be RecoverPoint. My group made it painfully clear to our CIO that's not the path we recommended to him when the project started. I'm sure it didn't sink in and he'll get amnesia about it. :(

None of the DR related stuff is close to implementation yet, partially because upper management drug its feet with the purchase. The other part is because the data center the VNX is going into is still being built out to be useful in general and for this specific need. I can't wait! :smithicide:

So Recoverpoint practically comes with the VNX but when you want to replicate to a VMAX it's a completely different licensing model. It becomes capacity based and frm what i've seen it's a bit expensive - hence why I hate it.

Bluecobra
Sep 11, 2001

The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades

Serfer posted:

Compellent is pretty big, and it's owned by Dell now. It's also not "white box" equipment, you're just showing that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It's like saying EMC Avamar is a white box just because it's just a Dell 2950.
Here is what a Compellent SC40 controller is:

http://www.supermicro.nl/products/system/3U/6035/SYS-6035B-8R_.cfm

All you need to make it into a Compellent Controller is to put in their PCI-E cards, their fugly bezel, a CPU, processor, and their software. I guess one good point about them is that you can mix and match cards into the same controller since it's just a Supermicro server.

Serfer
Mar 10, 2003

The piss tape is real



Bluecobra posted:

Here is what a Compellent SC40 controller is:

http://www.supermicro.nl/products/system/3U/6035/SYS-6035B-8R_.cfm

All you need to make it into a Compellent Controller is to put in their PCI-E cards, their fugly bezel, a CPU, processor, and their software. I guess one good point about them is that you can mix and match cards into the same controller since it's just a Supermicro server.
Here's what an EMC Avamar is, http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/poweredge-2950/pd by your logic all you need to do to make it into one is their software, and their weird bezel.

I think newer ones use http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/poweredge-r810/pd but my point stands.

It's not that using off the shelf parts makes a whitebox, it's the support behind it (and to some extent, the name) that makes it not a whitebox. If I were to build my own SAN from the same parts, it would definitely be a whitebox, but purchasing it from Compellent, with their software, their support, and their name, makes it more than the sum of its parts.

Bluecobra
Sep 11, 2001

The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades

Serfer posted:

Here's what an EMC Avamar is, http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/poweredge-2950/pd by your logic all you need to do to make it into one is their software, and their weird bezel.

I think newer ones use http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/poweredge-r810/pd but my point stands.

It's not that using off the shelf parts makes a whitebox, it's the support behind it (and to some extent, the name) that makes it not a whitebox. If I were to build my own SAN from the same parts, it would definitely be a whitebox, but purchasing it from Compellent, with their software, their support, and their name, makes it more than the sum of its parts.
I disagree. My definition of a whitebox is to use your own case or barebones kit from a place like Newegg to make a desktop or server. If Compellent chose to use a standard Dell/HP/IBM server instead, it would be miles ahead in build quality. Have you ever had the pleasure of racking Compellent gear? They have to be some of the worst rail kits ever, thanks to Supermicro. The disk enclosure rail kits don't even come assembled. It took me about 30 minutes to get just one controller rack mounted. Compare that with every other major vendor, racking shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes due to railkits that snap into the square holes.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Bluecobra posted:

I disagree. My definition of a whitebox is to use your own case or barebones kit from a place like Newegg to make a desktop or server. If Compellent chose to use a standard Dell/HP/IBM server instead, it would be miles ahead in build quality. Have you ever had the pleasure of racking Compellent gear? They have to be some of the worst rail kits ever, thanks to Supermicro. The disk enclosure rail kits don't even come assembled. It took me about 30 minutes to get just one controller rack mounted. Compare that with every other major vendor, racking shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes due to railkits that snap into the square holes.

So the quality of a SAN depends on how easy it is to rack? Because I am fairly sure our VNX 5300 was a bitch to rack. No sort of "rapid rails" there.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Internet Explorer posted:

So the quality of a SAN depends on how easy it is to rack? Because I am fairly sure our VNX 5300 was a bitch to rack. No sort of "rapid rails" there.
I hear MD3k's are real easy to rack maybe you should look into those.

Serioustalk: for 2 tiers, 1GBE equallogic money I could get more spindles, some flash *and* 10GBE on MD's.

Almost tempted to try it out.

Serfer
Mar 10, 2003

The piss tape is real



Internet Explorer posted:

So the quality of a SAN depends on how easy it is to rack? Because I am fairly sure our VNX 5300 was a bitch to rack. No sort of "rapid rails" there.
Yeah, our AX4's have two piece rails and were rather a bitch to install. CX3/5 was a total pain too (at least to remove, I wasn't there for installation). And I hate to bring it up again, but the Avamar doesn't use Dell's ready rails either, they use two piece shelf type rails.

Ready rails are pretty awesome though, since I can install them one handed.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT

evil_bunnY posted:

I hear MD3k's are real easy to rack maybe you should look into those.

The first MD3220i we bought we ordered the Dell Rapid Rails. These things rock. Snap into place in the rack, slid out and just drop the unit in. Our ordered a second one 6 months later for our other site, ordered the same Dell Rapid Rails, but these ones were static. They would snap into place, then it is just a shelf to slide the unit onto. I was very confused. Chatted with our Dell rep, he had no idea. I did an online chat with a few different Dell people, they are all convinced that the MD3220i never comes with sliding rails, only static. How the hell did I get sliding rails with my first unit?

three
Aug 9, 2007

i fantasize about ndamukong suh licking my doodoo hole
I don't think Compellent should be considered whitebox, but I also don't think SuperMicro is a great hardware maker. I look forward to them being moved to Dell hardware.

Hok
Apr 3, 2003

Cog in the Machine

three posted:

I don't think Compellent should be considered whitebox, but I also don't think SuperMicro is a great hardware maker. I look forward to them being moved to Dell hardware.

You're not the only one, I don't think it's far off either, I'd heard Q4 but I'm not sure if they'll make that now

Serfer
Mar 10, 2003

The piss tape is real



Hok posted:

You're not the only one, I don't think it's far off either, I'd heard Q4 but I'm not sure if they'll make that now
There was a Dell conference call that required signing an NDA, but I can safely say it's not going to be Q4.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Moey posted:

The first MD3220i we bought we ordered the Dell Rapid Rails. These things rock. Snap into place in the rack, slid out and just drop the unit in. Our ordered a second one 6 months later for our other site, ordered the same Dell Rapid Rails, but these ones were static. They would snap into place, then it is just a shelf to slide the unit onto. I was very confused. Chatted with our Dell rep, he had no idea. I did an online chat with a few different Dell people, they are all convinced that the MD3220i never comes with sliding rails, only static. How the hell did I get sliding rails with my first unit?
The last MD1000 I racked came with the snap-in rack shelf. I like the rails better, but at least with the shelf stupid people will drop one device instead of the whole rack when they pull poo poo out without paying attention.

Muslim Wookie
Jul 6, 2005
Hot drat all that EMC talk was hilarious. Wild horses gentleman, wild horses wouldn't drag me back to their steaming piles of poo poo they call enterprise storage, so a lot of the reasons people have said.

I mean, you can't even reliably replicate data between the drat things without praying to the gods. Sheesh.

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



EMC's FastCache recently poo poo the bed at one of the larger storage/SaaS providers (Tieto) in Sweden, causing a number of huge companies and government entities to not be able to work. This just days after they were plugging the technology hugely as the best thing since sliced coffee. Now they're talking about customers with unrecoverable data loss and not being reimbursed. Having a hard time to find english sources of this but right now EMC isn't sounding terribly good round here.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.
Just walked into an environment where the management is considering a substantial investment in an HDS stack. I've never worked with or really heard much from them, besides the BlueArc stuff we've had that long predates the Hitachi acquisition. Can anyone give me their impressions on the technology?

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Misogynist posted:

Just walked into an environment where the management is considering a substantial investment in an HDS stack. I've never worked with or really heard much from them, besides the BlueArc stuff we've had that long predates the Hitachi acquisition. Can anyone give me their impressions on the technology?

Mid-range (AMS), high end (VSP) or both?

Mausi
Apr 11, 2006

Dell turned up today; pitched their next gen blades against HP's current gen, and barely came up even for my requirements. Then pitched Compellent against a VNX55xx / FAS32xx and was more roadmap than features I can have now but "oh look we did tiering first". I suspect they'll be cheaper, but less flexible/performant under a broad range of conditions.
Faffed when I asked about how they deal with bursty traffic quicker than their 24hr post-process tiering "Have to ask technical about that". ho-hum. They do have a point with being able to relocate hot blocks down to small sizes, and traditionally are pretty good at +3year costs.

To be fair to them, they did better than EMC when I asked about the current state of Unisphere integration for the various legacy Celerra/Clariion components for replication and what not.
Both of them are doing better than NetApp and 3Par, as they aren't doing anything to get out of the "That's nice, but you're too drat expensive" bucket, despite industrial-strength hints.

sanchez
Feb 26, 2003
Seeing a lot of positive equalogic feedback in this thread, on the low end, has anyone had experience with the PS4100 series? I need to get a demo from them but what I've read so far sounds pretty good when compared with netapp at a similar price level.

Vanilla
Feb 24, 2002

Hay guys what's going on in th

Mausi posted:


To be fair to them, they did better than EMC when I asked about the current state of Unisphere integration for the various legacy Celerra/Clariion components for replication and what not.

I was looking into this yesterday for someone as it happens. Did you get the answer you needed? Basically it can manage arrays right back to the CX700 range on Flare 19 and Celerra also...but they have to be on Dart 6.0

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Vanilla posted:

Mid-range (AMS), high end (VSP) or both?
I haven't looked at the specs yet (just finished day two in a totally broken environment), but I believe it's one of the top-tier AMS models.

bort
Mar 13, 2003

quote:

Yeah, our AX4's have two piece rails and were rather a bitch to install.
A tech at my job dropped one of those and bent the elaborate racking ear comically. I wish I'd snapped a pic before I scrapped it. He had to spend his afternoon restoring from backup to an EqualLogic just because of the concussion, but there would have been no way to restore that chassis to service again.

Dell is overselling their gear and they're undoubtedly on a good run of product. I'm starting to be concerned they'll have sourcing or supply chain problems or hit a couple bad manufacturing runs. The other problem with success is that more and more dysfunctional environments will run Dell gear and overload their support team. They're now our company store and it worries the hell out of me.

edit: but if you're whining about your EMC gear, tell your Dell rep about it. S/he wants to listen. :mmmhmm:

bort fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Dec 10, 2011

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003



sanchez posted:

Seeing a lot of positive equalogic feedback in this thread, on the low end, has anyone had experience with the PS4100 series? I need to get a demo from them but what I've read so far sounds pretty good when compared with netapp at a similar price level.

I can't speak about the 4100 specifically, but I have a PS4000E that I racked up (yeah, took two people, weighed a ton) plugged in, and have spent 0 time caring about.

I've played with all it's features, but it's the san for a 2 node ESX cluster, and has performed without any drama just serving up lun's.

Works fine with snapshot offload and backup exec, never needed more setup than to make sure the backup exec server had access to the SAN.

Worst thing to happen was a human error during a firmware upgrade. I'd forgotten to plug in the other management port, so the firmware upgrade stalled with one card done and one card not. I had to manually finish the upgrade from the console (one command). It never went down during that whole process, and the total production impact was zero.

It is a bit pricey, and unless you plan to expand with more units, a lot of the features aren't useful (tiering, replication, multipathing) and some nice to have things aren't present (dedupe).

Syano
Jul 13, 2005
I have a customer that ordered a expansion shelf in for an AX4 and asked me to put it in. I have zero experience with emc much less the clariion line and it looks like I need some sort of login to even get to the documentation. Is adding an expansion shelf a pretty easy prospect? Is it hot add? Or am I going to have to spin down the array?

Erwin
Feb 17, 2006

Syano posted:

I have a customer that ordered a expansion shelf in for an AX4 and asked me to put it in. I have zero experience with emc much less the clariion line and it looks like I need some sort of login to even get to the documentation. Is adding an expansion shelf a pretty easy prospect? Is it hot add? Or am I going to have to spin down the array?

It's pretty simple, just pay attention to the direction of the arrows on the interconnect ports. You can do it hot, but maybe after hours just in case.

It's funny, they'll let you rack and connect a new tray, and don't provide any documentation to do it, but they insist on sending someone out to do a firmware upgrade.

Dilbert As FUCK
Sep 8, 2007

by Cowcaster
Pillbug
Studying for my VCP and soon to be VCAP, got any good suggestions for a complex SAN environment to build and try out?

I have storage DRS going but want to get someone that will take we a while to chew on. Mostly doing iscsi, not sure if I can do FCoE in freenas

Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 12, 2011

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Got to play with a FAS today, and it makes other arrays look straight up retarded.

wwb
Aug 17, 2004

So, I finally got around to setting up my video encoding and editing workstation. Which consists of a mac mini and a free NAS box for mass storage. They are connected via ethernet and iSCSI using a dedicated cable.

Storage layout on the NAS is a RAID-Z2 w/ 4 2tb drives plus a 36gb 10k drive setup to cache.

Reading from the NAS is great and the speeds feel "right". But writing isn't so pretty -- it seems to write a chunk, pause and wait for the NAS to write, then write another chunk to the disks before taking another chunk.

I'm not even sure where to start looking. None of the typical system logs are reporting any issues.

Any advice?

devmd01
Mar 7, 2006

Elektronik
Supersonik
What kind of 36gb 10k drive? If it's a raptor, lol.

ehzorg
May 31, 2011

all in all, just another sheet in the roll
Hey good storage peoples, advise me please.

I've recently been hired as the first and only dedicated IT support person in an medical R&D firm of about 100 employees in Switzerland. The current corporate mass storage needs are met by about a hundred external USB hard drives, mostly chained up to everybody's workstations by USB hubs. Oh, and they've got a ~4TB linux based fileserver managed by externally contracted IT. It's a loving mess. As the IT department, I'm expected to make it all better.

I'd like to push for a centralized storage solution. The problem is that I'm pretty far out of my experience envelope here. I'll explain our situation, usage characteristics, and desired features - if you could point me in the right direction, I'd be eternally grateful.

We're going to be storing mostly simulation results - no databases or virtual machines. These are huge files created and accessed by typically not more than 10 people at a time over 1Gb ethernet via SMB (so, high bandwidth - low IOPS... right?) We currently have at least 30TB of poo-poo that needs storing, but the ability to grow to 100TB+ within the next 3-5 years is probably needed. Would be nice to also have this data backed up to another location in house, but right now any kind of fault-tolerance is better than what we've got.

Budget concerns.... well, since up until now management hasn't been convinced about the necessity of upgrading past 2TB USB external hard drives, this may be a concern. I'm pretty sure I can get 15k eurobux approved, possibly 25k if I can make a solid argument and pretty powerpoint slides. More than that is unlikely to be approved.

What should I be looking at? Gigantic prosumer level NAS devices (Synology / QNAP)? Small business level storage (NetApp / Dell)?

Erwin
Feb 17, 2006

ehzorg posted:

Hey good storage peoples, advise me please.

You know you can say gently caress and poo poo around here, right?

Your budget is a bit tight, but there's no harm in calling up the vendors and seeing what they'll do. If they know your budget and needs, and feel like they can meet them, they'll come visit and give you a demo. Have a higher-up sit in on some demos so the vendors can tell them what an absolute god-damned nightmare shitpile you're sitting on right now.

I feel like Dell and EMC might be able to offer you something at that price (but they'll push for a little more).

wwb
Aug 17, 2004

devmd01 posted:

What kind of 36gb 10k drive? If it's a raptor, lol.

lol.

Dilbert As FUCK
Sep 8, 2007

by Cowcaster
Pillbug
I asked it on the last page but I don't think anyone saw it as it was the last reply. Anyone know a challenging SAN environment to set up? Studying for my VCP and want to have storage down pat, even if Storage DRS makes it easy

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Fourteen
Aug 15, 2002

No, no, no you imbecile! That's not talc, that's paprika!
Anyone have any experience with DataDirect? Specifically their NAS Scaler line?

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