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Oasx posted:You simply put "From the director of The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings" on the trailer and movie poster. Free money. "It's like LotR and The Hobbit, except no hobbits!" Honestly, can you imagine the early reviews? You guys gotta know that what made LotR a phenomenon (and what will do the same for TH) was the relatable protagonists that humanized all the high fantasy. The Silmarillion is high fantasy in its purest, most distilled, least humanized form, and only really hard-core fans (who make up only a tiny fraction of LotR's box-office/DVD sales) would appreciate that even a tiny bit if there's no marquee character up front to be bewildered and tormented and let the spectacle of the universe wash over him like a wooly-footed Arthur Dent.
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Dec 31, 2011 03:48
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Yonic Symbolism posted:So one of those cat villages only bigger and all the cats cast spells if they're bothered? Do the heros just bring a crate of nip or infiltrate it when the sun is high and they're all lying in sunbeams? Actually, not too far off. Tevildo in the old story was what got replaced by Sauron, and his castle (near Angband) was the analog of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. The whole section of the story was a "dogs and cats" fable instead of the hound-vs-werewolf thing that came about later. Beren was an Elf during this version. When Tinúviel (following Huan's scheme) infiltrates the castle, she finds that Beren is in there working as a scullery slave after having been caught by "Melko" and sent to Tevildo's place for fun. On her way in, she has to navigate through all the castle's giant cats who are lying around in the sun. (They all have cat-Elvish names like Miaulë and Miaugion and Oikeroi and Meoita.) She tricks Tevildo into getting in a fight with Huan and getting stuck in a tree, and he surrenders by giving Tinúviel the spell that lets her destroy the castle and release Beren. The cats are so ashamed of this that they run from dogs to this day making terrible screeching noises. I don't think Tolkien liked cats very much.
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Dec 31, 2011 04:33
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Jerusalem posted:Honestly right now anything that gets in the way of me getting my Peter Jackson directed Tintin sequel is something I'm going to want to fight. And his Producing of The Dambusters. He can do those two then do whatever he wants after.
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Dec 31, 2011 06:00
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I consider myself to be pretty obsessed with Tolkien as is everybody taking time out of their lives to post in this thread. I would actively dislike a Silmarillion film as I actively disliked reading it. No thanks. I like hearing what happened second hand but that was an exasperating read.
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Dec 31, 2011 06:56
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kiimo posted:I consider myself to be pretty obsessed with Tolkien as is everybody taking time out of their lives to post in this thread. Same, but there were a oouple of good stories in it, e.g. Beren and Luthien and Turin Turambar.
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Dec 31, 2011 07:42
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haha, I was lucky enough to read Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales as a kid before I developed bad-writing-intolerance, so it didn't bug me then. I actually really, really loved em. Now I don't think I could drag myself through them. Same goes for Lord of the Rings. A few of the myths could make a good movie though, who knows. They'd probably have to take some Hollywood liberties, bastardize the source material a little bit, expand a random female's role a little bit, give Feanor a bitchin fro a little bit. The thing that would thrill me the most is seeing dragons and balrogs in huge epic fights, like the siege of Gondolin. Or seeing Ungoliant and Melkor plotting.
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Dec 31, 2011 07:56
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I just had a dream that Peter Jackson sent me a bunch of footage from this movie. It was awesome. Then I woke up. Son of a bitch.
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Dec 31, 2011 12:35
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One thing I've always wondered, what exactly are the Grey Havens/Undying Lands. I've not read Silmarillion, but even just looking it up on Wikipedia, there's a ton of stuff regarding geography and history, but very little info on what the actual implications of going there are. "It's a metaphor for death." Well, yes, but generally Tolkien disliked metaphor and there's a clear difference between the two, given that Pippin, Merry and Aragorn straight up die instead of travelling there. Do they all live happily ever after in their spirit forms or something?
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Dec 31, 2011 18:54
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Hakkesshu posted:One thing I've always wondered, what exactly are the Grey Havens/Undying Lands. I've not read Silmarillion, but even just looking it up on Wikipedia, there's a ton of stuff regarding geography and history, but very little info on what the actual implications of going there are. The Grey Havens are just a port in Middle Earth. The Undying Lands, or Valinor, are different. They're the place where the Valar/Maiar live, along with elves. Its literally a heaven on earth, though it was eventually removed from being physically in Middle Earth. It is possible to travel there by ship, but elves go there when they die. They are actually physically reincarnated in new bodies there. Other people (humans, hobbits, dwarves, etc) could travel there by boat, but they don't go there when they die. Frodo and Bilbo go there on boats, but they eventually do die there. When Gandalf and the other wizard's arrived in Middle Earth they sailed from Valinor and arrived in the Grey Havens.
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Dec 31, 2011 19:31
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Nuggan posted:The Grey Havens are just a port in Middle Earth. The Undying Lands, or Valinor, are different. They're the place where the Valar/Maiar live, along with elves. Its literally a heaven on earth, though it was eventually removed from being physically in Middle Earth. It is possible to travel there by ship, but elves go there when they die. They are actually physically reincarnated in new bodies there. Other people (humans, hobbits, dwarves, etc) could travel there by boat, but they don't go there when they die. Frodo and Bilbo go there on boats, but they eventually do die there. When Gandalf and the other wizard's arrived in Middle Earth they sailed from Valinor and arrived in the Grey Havens. This is one of those concepts from The Silmarillion that I just loved - the whole idea that at one point the world was actually flat, and the land of the gods (Valinor) was a physical location that could actually be reached on earth. And then after a major conflict (the fall of Numenor) Eru just removed the entire continent and made the earth such that when you sailed to the west, you eventually just arrived right back in the east instead of in Valinor - so that's how the world became spherical. I've always loved that as a creation myth of sorts. And as I understand it, it was really only the elves that could travel The Straight Road from earth to Valinor, and only by very special leave could certain individuals of other races (Frodo, Bilbo, Samwise, Gimli for instance) go there as well.
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Dec 31, 2011 19:52
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kaworu posted:And as I understand it, it was really only the elves that could travel The Straight Road from earth to Valinor, and only by very special leave could certain individuals of other races (Frodo, Bilbo, Samwise, Gimli for instance) go there as well. Eärendil sailed there, but he was half-elven, so i guess thats debatable on if he counts.
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Dec 31, 2011 20:09
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Nuggan posted:Eärendil sailed there, but he was half-elven, so i guess thats debatable on if he counts. Eärendil's voyage occured before the changing of the world, so far as I remember. Indeed, Eärendil's pleas were part of the catalyst for the 'War of Wrath' that happens at the end of the First Age. The Changing of the World was triggered by Numenoreans breaking the Ban of the Valar, and landing at Aman - it happens at the end of the Second Age.
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Dec 31, 2011 20:19
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Nuggan posted:Frodo and Bilbo go there on boats, but they eventually do die there. Can you point me to where this is stated? I've always been confused about whether Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli die over there.
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Dec 31, 2011 20:41
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ComposerGuy posted:Can you point me to where this is stated? I've always been confused about whether Frodo, Bilbo, Sam and Gimli die over there. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien: Letter #325 posted:As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time - whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:09
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Thanks for that. That makes a lot of sense. I like the explanation that the Elves pretty much don't know what the gently caress is going on when mortals die. I seem to recall that Eru called mortality a "gift" at some point and the Valar and Elves are pretty much left scratching their heads about it. "Dying is a gift? Whatever you say man."
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Dec 31, 2011 21:13
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More like they get really sick of immortality, and can see envying the spontaneity and personal drive that a limited lifespan gives Men.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:14
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:I, too, would also enjoy seeing Peter Jackson's visualisation of the city of Gondolin falling to Morgoth's army of orcs, balrogs and dragons. I . . . goddammit. gently caress you, man. gently caress you. Even my friend with aspergers hasn't been able to read The Silmarillion. Admittedly, reading can be another issue for him but I digress. It'll never happen, but I can still daydream about what the weapons and armor would look like by taking the art design in the LOTR films and thinking about what would have inspired it from even more ancient sources. This is the art history nerd coming out in me, though. I love seeing what inspired what, so taking such a fully fleshed out world and moving backwards through it would be like heaven for me. Then again, I do appreciate sunlight and fresh air so I'm going to climb out of this particular rabbit hole before I get lost in it.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:27
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Geekboy posted:Even my friend with aspergers hasn't been able to read The Silmarillion. New thread title please someone.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:32
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I like the idea that the Hobbits can live for about as long as they want. I like this idea because it pleases me to think that Bilbo stuck around long enough to see Sam, Legolas and Gimli again.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:33
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kiimo posted:I like the idea that the Hobbits can live for about as long as they want. Hobbits live 80-100 years or so. Its mortals that are in Valinor who can choose to die when they want. Also, Aragorn because of his special bloodline.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:42
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But Hobbits are mortals. I read that as the Hobbits and Gimli are going to die but get to choose when they want to go in the Undying Lands. The elves live forever.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:46
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kiimo posted:But Hobbits are mortals. I read that as the Hobbits and Gimli are going to die but get to choose when they want to go in the Undying Lands. The elves live forever. Right, I'm saying Hobbits don't get to choose when to die unless they are in the undying lands. I'm sorry if I was confused about your original statement, but it seemed to me that you were thinking all hobbits got to choose when they die, not just the ones who sailed away.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:51
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Are dwarves mortal like Humans (and hobbits)? I think they go hang out with Aule or something. I can't remember.
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Dec 31, 2011 21:54
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Nuggan posted:Right, I'm saying Hobbits don't get to choose when to die unless they are in the undying lands. I'm sorry if I was confused about your original statement, but it seemed to me that you were thinking all hobbits got to choose when they die, not just the ones who sailed away. No I'm just saying that Bilbo and Frodo, being in the undying lands aren't going to die right away. Bilbo without the ring was on death's doorstep. He goes to Valinor and keeps living. At some point Legolas builds a ship and takes Gimli and Sam to Valinor. When they get there, I assume Bilbo and Frodo are still alive and welcome them when they arrive. I refuse to believe otherwise because I like the idea too much. (Edit: even though Tolkien makes it intentionally vague whether Legolas brought Gimli, we all know he did)
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Dec 31, 2011 22:05
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euphronius posted:Are dwarves mortal like Humans (and hobbits)? I think they go hang out with Aule or something. I can't remember. Yeah, they die, but they live for hundreds of years.
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Dec 31, 2011 22:13
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Data Graham posted:Yeah, they die, but they live for hundreds of years. I got the impression that Dwarves live about as long as the Dunedain Men did.
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Dec 31, 2011 22:44
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ComposerGuy posted:I got the impression that Dwarves live about as long as the Dunedain Men did. Dwarves live to about 250, except for Dwalin, who lived to the age of 340 because
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Dec 31, 2011 22:50
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The Gift of Men is that their spirits go back to Ilúvatar so that when the world is unmade at the end of time their voices will be added to the second song that creates the new world.
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Dec 31, 2011 22:54
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Nuggan posted:Hobbits live 80-100 years or so. Its mortals that are in Valinor who can choose to die when they want. Also, Aragorn because of his special bloodline. I'm pretty sure hobbits live a fair bit longer than humans, but that this was changed somewhat in the movies. Wasn't Frodo like 30 and considered a teenager?
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Dec 31, 2011 23:00
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Yes, 30-50 is described as the "tweens" for hobbits. Irresponsible young adulthood. Bilbo reaching 111 (and being pretty spry at that age) wasn't terribly unusual, but 130 or so (the Old Took's final age, and Bilbo's age upon going to the Grey Havens) was a record.
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Dec 31, 2011 23:03
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Trump posted:I'm pretty sure hobbits live a fair bit longer than humans, but that this was changed somewhat in the movies. Wasn't Frodo like 30 and considered a teenager? 30 for hobbits is right around 18 for humans, 50 for them is about 40 for us. Bilbo was pretty old at 111. Its possible for them to live a bit longer, but most only make it to around 100.
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Dec 31, 2011 23:07
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Rando posted:The Gift of Men is that their spirits go back to Ilúvatar so that when the world is unmade at the end of time their voices will be added to the second song that creates the new world. Obviously instead of a Silmarillion movie, Peter Jackson should do a movie about the end of Middle Earth when Morgoth returns to destroy the world. That way through some plot devices, they can bring back Frodo and Same and Legolas and Gimli and Aragorn and everyone for the movie as some sort of reincarnation.
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Dec 31, 2011 23:39
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Why don't they just do a direct to DVD animated Lost Tales/Abridged Silmarillion in the style of Animatrix or the Batman one?
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Dec 31, 2011 23:55
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feedmyleg posted:Why don't they just do a direct to DVD animated Lost Tales/Abridged Silmarillion in the style of Animatrix or the Batman one? I wouldn't mind it simply being animated, more classically. Or maybe mix it so some stories are classically animated and others a CG. But let's keep the Animatrix/Gotham thing far away from this. I don't want to see some random anime's studios off the wall interpretation of Middle Earth.
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Dec 31, 2011 23:57
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ToastyPotato posted:I wouldn't mind it simply being animated, more classically. Or maybe mix it so some stories are classically animated and others a CG. But let's keep the Animatrix/Gotham thing far away from this. I don't want to see some random anime's studios off the wall interpretation of Middle Earth. That being said, I would kill to see Hayao Miyazaki do any sort of Middle-Earth related film. I don't think that an epic LotR adaptation would have suited his style very well, though, and in truth his vision would probably clash with Tolkien's in many ways. But to be honest, I would vastly prefer to see Miyazaki adapting The Hobbit in animated form than the Peter Jackson films we're going to get. As excited as I am for these films and as much as I love PJ, that's still how I feel. What's really, truly sad is that we could have had a Miyazaki adaptation of my other favorite fantasy novel series at one point, A Wizard of Earthsea. He wanted to make a film based on the books back in the '80s, but Ursula K. Le Guin turned him down back then because she didn't know much about him, and at the time she was firmly against anyone adapting her work for the screen. Even more epicly sad is that Goro Miyazaki (Hayao's son) eventually did adapt Le Guin's work a few years ago and totally botched the job, making a thoroughly mediocre film that had none of the skill, beauty, and charm of his father's work. I don't think I'll ever get over how sad that made me, the fact that Studio Ghibli actually made a film based on Earthsea, but it totally sucked because the wrong Miyazaki was in charge  Don't even get me loving started on the atrocious and offensive SyFy Earthsea film.
kaworu fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 01:17
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One thing I was sad to see not in the movies (even the Extended Editions from memory) is Gimli and Legolas' selling to the other their idea of beauty. Gimli talking about the beautiful caverns behind Helm's Deep for example, or how it's mentioned in the books that after Gimli showed them to him Legolas was basically left speechless as he finally understood what Dwarves saw in caves and rocks.
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Jan 1, 2012 02:48
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I know they shot footage for an epilogue where each of the characters would have one final moment. Gimli was to be examining a big-rear end jewel.
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Jan 1, 2012 02:57
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Zero One posted:Obviously instead of a Silmarillion movie, Peter Jackson should do a movie about the end of Middle Earth when Morgoth returns to destroy the world. Except for Arwen since she likes girly things.
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Jan 1, 2012 03:12
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one thing that has always bugged me... i don't have a copy of fellowship handy at this moment, so bear with me... in the second chapter, a shadow from the past, in the green dragon tavern, i think it was bill ferny who said he saw something walking through the trees... i forget his exact description, but huddled around the pub everyone is talking about how queer things seemed these days, how many strangers are appearing on the roads... and bill ferny says he has seen what are basically ent-wives. is this correct? he doesn't say ent-wife, of course, but what he describes is essentially that. sorry I can't be more clear. anyone know what i'm talking about?
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Jan 1, 2012 03:55
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Twat McTwatterson posted:one thing that has always bugged me... i don't have a copy of fellowship handy at this moment, so bear with me... I just looked through Chapter Two now and Sam says his cousin saw a "Tree-Man" bigger than an Elm walking beyond the North Moors. Nobody believes him and they get a few laughs out of it before talking about the Elves, but the description is pretty vague and second-hand. I'd say it would be far more likely to have been an Ent than an Ent-Wife, since the latter are described as small and hunched over and this was described as a giant. It could even have been a troll, or straight up just a giant. Or maybe Sam's cousin just smoked too much pipe-weed?
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Jan 1, 2012 04:20
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