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Technics haters think direct drive is inferior technology despite the entire line of Technics' DD turntables having better wow/flutter and rumble specs than virtually any belt drive turntable, even $10,000 belt drive audiophile turntables.
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Jan 2, 2012 01:52
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Mister Kingdom posted:I'm no audiophile by any means and I do have a Technics turntable, but I am curious: why do the Technics haters hate? Because they're immensely popular and very affordable (well they were until they stopped making them) and have been so for several decades. The following is just how I see it, feel free to take it with a grain of salt: It probably started in the audiophile press because, due to the same model being manufactured for so long, the price of the SL-1200 was so low compared to anything of similar quality out there that other manufacturers had to do something. I have no proof that all amateur audio* journalists are corrupt but I would be very very surprised to find out they aren't - of course some are just idiots. Once it's printed, it's true: cogging, jittering, what have you. Most of the hate seems to focus on the SL-1200MK2 (and later incarnations thereof) but some just can't seem to stand direct-drive (Technics) in general. Of course there were some super-lovely direct-drive turntables produced by other companies, but the thing about the Technics drives is they were all really good. It's also quite common to read stuff like "well they designed it but they were made in China so quality control blah blah blah" even though they were made in Japan. *) Amateur audio as opposed to professional audio. EDIT: Technics made some really crappy low-end belt-drive players though. Then again, who didn't? Another loving edit: I actually mostly use a belt-drive Philips at home because I'm lazy and it's automatic. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 2, 2012 |
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Jan 2, 2012 02:23
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1210s were the business. When I used to spin records I had a beat to poo poo 4th hand pair that were still trucking when I sold them. Everywhere I went to spin records there was a pair of beat to poo poo 1210s that kept on trucking after what looked like 15 years of raining pint glasses, cigarette/spliff ash and heavy handed DJs. I'd still have at least one of them if vinyl wasn't so freakishly expensive.
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Jan 2, 2012 03:21
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Theres another huge club at VE who agree that while the 1200 motor is amazing, and essentially the same thing as an SP-10,15 the arm is lovely poo poo poo poo and must be replaced with some carbon fibre monstrosity post haste. Of course the arm is not the most amazing thing in the world, but it's about 400,000 times better than the nail in a 2x4 tonearms you get on those Crosley bulk record erasers.
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Jan 2, 2012 03:54
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WanderingKid posted:1210s were the business. When I used to spin records I had a beat to poo poo 4th hand pair that were still trucking when I sold them. Everywhere I went to spin records there was a pair of beat to poo poo 1210s that kept on trucking after what looked like 15 years of raining pint glasses, cigarette/spliff ash and heavy handed DJs. The non-beat-to-poo poo units also work pretty well  But the main thing is that it also works really well as a home player (which is probably why DJs adopted them). Anyone with wobbly floors can attest to this.
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Jan 2, 2012 03:59
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Ron Burgundy posted:Of course the arm is not the most amazing thing in the world, but it's about 400,000 times better than the nail in a 2x4 tonearms you get on those Crosley bulk record erasers. I think "Crosleys are utter poo poo" is the one sentiment that everyone who has any experience in using record players can agree on. Of course, if you replace the plinth, the drive, the tonearm, and the circuit board, you'll have a great system! Upgrades are what it's all about anyway, right? "While our recorders may look retro, they feature enough modern day gadgetry to make anyone marvel." Gee whiz, it plays C-cassettes, too! It can also do digital computer files. Does that mean it's files for digital computers or that the files are digital as opposed to those old-fashioned analog files? 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jan 2, 2012 |
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Jan 2, 2012 04:02
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Whats wrong with the tone arms? Never had a problem with them as long as they aren't broken and they haven't been tampered with (like people fiddling with the pivot screw). :|
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Jan 2, 2012 04:14
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Jerry Cotton posted:Of course, if you replace the plinth, the drive, the tonearm, and the circuit board, you'll have a great system! Upgrades are what it's all about anyway, right? Haha this is great idea. Just keep upgrading until not one thing original is left. The sad thing I have been noticing about VE is that the sub forum about actual music (you know, the thing that plays on all this expensive equipment) is tiny compared to the entire thread/post count. It's really sad.
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Jan 2, 2012 04:19
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WanderingKid posted:Whats wrong with the tone arms? Never had a problem with them as long as they aren't broken and they haven't been tampered with (like people fiddling with the pivot screw). :| Nothing, that's the point. They're just pissed it didn't ship with an SME IV or something. (Or a blank arm board to install the most expensive hollow metal rod known to man.)
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Jan 2, 2012 04:21
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Jerry Cotton posted:The non-beat-to-poo poo units also work pretty well 1210s were the first decks where I learned how to mix by riding the pitch only. Mainly because I used to have cheap Gemini belt drives and I could slow the platter with my index finger without shaving it off. Also nipple twisting kind of worked. On 1210s the motors just keep on powering on and oh god why won't it slow down make it slow dow-. Whip the crossfader over <TRAIN WRECK> pretend like nothing happened. They were expensive back then so I could only afford hand me downs (which were still kind of expensive even though they looked like poo poo). A few years ago I remember seeing people dumping their 1210s for like 120 euros a pop and I was tempted to buy one for old times sake. But I really don't want to get back into vinyl. I don't want to pay 5 quid for singles and like 12 for EPs. Yeesh.
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Jan 2, 2012 04:25
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Ron Burgundy posted:Haha this is great idea. Just keep upgrading until not one thing original is left. Well that seems to be the fashion these days. Buy turntable ZORBO DUBUQUE 3.7 -> replace arm -> replace platter -> replace mat -> replace power unit -> replace belt (white belts are better than black belts [not kidding]) -> replace plinth -> replace feet -> buy 5000 € stand -> replace stand feet -> replace all wiring and cables (white cables are better than black cables!) -> post on vinylengine how ZORBO DUBUQUE 3.7 is great and Technics poo poo doesn't even come close. There's no "profit" part unless you sell 400 € platter mats or something. Extra optional step: post a video on Youtube of your so-called ZORBO DUBUQUE 3.7 playing a Sade record. Only Sade will do. Don't pipe the sound straight to your computer, just record it with the camera microphone. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jan 2, 2012 |
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Jan 2, 2012 06:36
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Ron Burgundy posted:Nothing, that's the point. They're just pissed it didn't ship with an SME IV or something. I actually think that the arm is a pretty valid point of criticism for the SL-1200. It's not bad by any means, but it's definitely the 1200's biggest weakness, even in comparison to other Japanese direct drive decks. By the late 70s/early 80s, Technics had fallen pretty far behind the kind of arms that other Japanese manufacturers like JVC, Denon, and Sony were putting on their higher end tables. The main reason why I've replaced my SL-1800mk2 with a Dual CS-5000 as my main turntable is because the Dual arm sounds better and is less prone to mistracking.
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Jan 2, 2012 06:47
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Funeral Pudding posted:I actually think that the arm is a pretty valid point of criticism for the SL-1200. It's not bad by any means, but it's definitely the 1200's biggest weakness, even in comparison to other Japanese direct drive decks. I think we can all agree that the 1200's arm could be better, but for the price it's still a drat fine piece of kit.
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Jan 2, 2012 07:29
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Are 1200s prone to mistracking? Thats news to me. :\ Simple and age old test: plonk a spirit level on your deck and make sure its level and flat. Take off the cartridge, unscrew the counterweight until its about to come off (but don't take it off). Set the anti skate to 3 and release the tone arm. Turn the anti skate off and the tone arm should swing all the way in. Set anti skate to 3 again and tone arm returns back to where it was. If it gets stuck along the way then the arm isn't set right. Or someone has tinkered with the pivot screws. Time to get your tone arm assembly replaced because its cheaper and easier to just buy a new tonearm. You need to de-solder/solder like 4 wires. I had to do it in the beginning because my tables were trashed but after that they were good until I sold them. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jan 2, 2012 |
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Jan 2, 2012 07:56
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WanderingKid posted:Simple and age old test: plonk a spirit level on your deck and make sure its level and flat. Take off the cartridge, unscrew the counterweight until its about to come off (but don't take it off). Set the anti skate to 3 and release the tone arm. Turn the anti skate off and the tone arm should swing all the way in. Set anti skate to 3 again and tone arm returns back to where it was. Jesus Christ, if your bearings weren't hosed before, they will be after this. In the non-DJ arena it's not as cut-and-dry as "it plays or it doesn't" there's end of side mistracking and misalignment issues because of arm geometry resulting in sibilance and all that nasty stuff.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:05
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Hmmm thats to do with setting the anti skate properly, which has nothing to do with the above.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:16
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Ron Burgundy posted:Jesus Christ, if your bearings weren't hosed before, they will be after this. There is no DJ arena. Lumping all professional use of turntables together is just plain stupid. Being rid of sibilance and "all that nasty stuff" is just as important to many DJs as it is in home use (if not more so). And mistracking is never acceptable.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:22
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WanderingKid posted:Are 1200s prone to mistracking? Thats news to me. :\ I wasn't trying to imply that the Technics arms track poorly, just that I think the Dual arm is better. 1200s are great turntables. I just think that the anti-Technics crowd and the group that thinks that SL-1200 is the only turntable anyone should ever consider using are equally misguided.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:25
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Oh ok. That makes sense. Also agreed on the second part. Part of the whole 1210 thing stems from them being ubiquitous I guess. 1210 is a bit like pro tools. Every post production facility or recording studio has some form of pro tools rig so it just becomes convenient when all your mates and every place you want to play has the same gear. I can relate to that because I don't use pro tools for production. I use FL Studio which is not an industry standard. Its difficult for me to do stuff with other people. :\ I don't think its as much of an issue now what with everything going digital.
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Jan 2, 2012 08:44
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Jerry Cotton posted:Because they're immensely popular and very affordable (well they were until they stopped making them) and have been so for several decades. Well, that certainly makes sense.  I have an SL-1600MK2. I worked at a pawn shop in the early 90s and a guy came in to pawn it. At that time, we weren't taking turntables anymore (CDs RULE!!), but my previous record player (a crappy BSR automatic) had crapped itself and I needed a new one. I bought it off him for $25. I had a friend who fixed electronics for the shop and he replaced the tonearm belt and cables (for cost - about $5) and I've used it ever since. I bought a cheapo pre-amp and it makes the turntable hum like a bitch. Any suggestions for a replacement? Mister Kingdom fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jan 3, 2012 |
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Jan 3, 2012 16:05
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Opensourcepirate posted:Blue Jeans Cable is my favorite source for premium cables at reasonable rates. They also have some very in depth and interesting articles on what makes a quality cable and why HDMI is a terribly designed standard. As someone who works with HDMI regularly in hardware validation, this article is pretty silly. They're complaining that they can't use HDMI for something it's just not intended to do: run several hundred feet. If you want to do that, you're probably in a professional setting and have access to equipment designed for that. If you are just installing a home theater, you can run 75-100 feet of HDMI cable but you'd need a repeater if you want to go further than that. HDMI is a consumer standard, not a broadcast standard.
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Jan 21, 2012 17:28
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HDMI is horrible and absolutely everyone I've met in custom install can't wait to get rid of it. Even over short runs it's a bloody nightmare because of how fragile it is, so gently caress you if it gets damaged after its been run in and the walls/ceilings have been closed up! Time to eat the cost of a balun pair so you can put your signal down the cat5s that you ran in alongside it! Times like these make you wonder why they didn't just make a consumer video standard that uses cheap, existing cable infrastructure and sensible - oh.
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Jan 24, 2012 20:36
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100 watts over RJ45 contacts and/or wires? Yea, no.
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Jan 24, 2012 20:44
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I'm guessing that's a typo, 10w certainly wouldn't be difficult. Even if you removed the ability to have power altogether it's still very compelling.
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Jan 24, 2012 21:24
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There's a PoE standard that allows up to 51W over all four pairs. And that's really pushing it in my opinion. Double of that? In DC? No way. And probably not a typo, since driving a TV is mentioned as scenario.
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Jan 24, 2012 21:42
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For long runs, you run Cat6, then do use an RJ45 - HDMI converter from monoprice to go from the wall to your devices.
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Jan 25, 2012 01:35
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Combat Pretzel posted:100 watts over RJ45 contacts and/or wires? Yea, no. Check out the white paper. At 50 volts it is only .5 amps per pair. No reason it can't be done.
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Jan 25, 2012 17:00
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http://www.avclub.com/articles/when-the-commentariat-attacks-14-entertaining-case,68392/ #2. even the avclub is covering the joke...
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Jan 30, 2012 15:03
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 Calling all cars! Calling all cars! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2920891&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=126#post400899781
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Feb 24, 2012 11:19
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Well, it was inevitable. If an idiotic belief exists, you'll find it somewhere on SA. But gold plating does look nicer. When gold-plated connectors started creeping their way into consumer products, I remember one article in a tech magazine where it was pointed out that, according to laboratory tests, it would seem that the difference between nickel- and gold-plated connectors regarding corrosion resistance would only be manifest over periods of several thousand years. (Of course laboratory tests can't prove this but we'll see in ten thousand years or so if they were right.) Incidentally, I've noticed that more and more you'll find gold-plated (or, as it may be, gold-coloured) connectors on the shittiest Chinese-made Fuckshit-brand products out there because that's the thing people want. A lot of "pro" stuff I've bought recently has had nickel-plated connectors even though I'm fairly sure older models had gold. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Feb 24, 2012 |
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Feb 24, 2012 16:30
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How can gold not be better, I mean it's GOLD for god's sake. Just look at it!
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Feb 24, 2012 17:00
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Jerry Cotton posted:Incidentally, I've noticed that more and more you'll find gold-plated (or, as it may be, gold-coloured) connectors on the shittiest Chinese-made Fuckshit-brand products out there because that's the thing people want. A lot of "pro" stuff I've bought recently has had nickel-plated connectors even though I'm fairly sure older models had gold. All of my audio and computer gear etc. is a wonderful mixture of gold and nickel plating. OH NOES THE CORROSIONS DISSIMILAR METALS, I guess. Hasn't made a lick of difference, the sound doesn't crackle when I move or turn the connectors, everything sounds like it should. Unlike my old cheapo Chinese MP3 player where I sometimes had to turn the headphone jack back and forth a few times to make sure I got sound in both channels.
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Feb 24, 2012 17:33
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KozmoNaut posted:All of my audio and computer gear etc. is a wonderful mixture of gold and nickel plating. OH NOES THE CORROSIONS DISSIMILAR METALS, I guess. Am I going to hell because some things are just copper on copper  I like to use these: because I'm lazy and don't actually own a soldering iron.
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Feb 25, 2012 01:26
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That's an instant 8khz lowpass filter with 12dB rollover RIGHT THERE!
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Feb 25, 2012 01:44
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Is it actually possble to buy $100+ headphones without gold plated jacks? I thought it had pretty much become defacto for consumer stuff.
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Feb 25, 2012 04:50
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Is a light gold-plating even really that expensive? I figure they would put just enough gold plating on it to make it look gold-plated.
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Feb 25, 2012 04:56
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Socket Ryanist posted:Is a light gold-plating even really that expensive? I figure they would put just enough gold plating on it to make it look gold-plated. Gilding connectors costs cents at the most, the layer can be just a few atoms thick.
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Feb 25, 2012 11:17
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In the end, it's still just stupid poo poo. Just like these magical power cords, that oh so improve the sound. I like how its users completely disregard the wiring of their house and that, that leads from the main hub to their house. Gold plating serves poo poo, if the wiring and solder points of all the devices in the chain aren't made of pixie dust.
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Feb 25, 2012 14:03
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Combat Pretzel posted:In the end, it's still just stupid poo poo. Just like these magical power cords, that oh so improve the sound. I like how its users completely disregard the wiring of their house and that, that leads from the main hub to their house. Gold plating serves poo poo, if the wiring and solder points of all the devices in the chain aren't made of pixie dust. Gold or nickel plating can make a difference. If you have a habit of dunking your electronics in salt water, have acid fumes in your house (get out now!) or subject your electronics to similarly corrosive conditions. I've helped pull down speakers from malls where the electronics and connectors hadn't been touched for half a century. There was no corrosion at all, just a bit of dust. Hell, I've pulled stuff from the engine compartments of cars and there was no corrosion in the connections themselves. If anyone thinks corroded connections could ever be a problem in their home setups, they're absolutely mad. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Feb 25, 2012 |
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Feb 25, 2012 14:22
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Nah, I mean from the sound quality perspective. Audiophiles wouldn't care about anti-corrosive properties, because they're probably the firm belief that things like these wear out and have to be replaced every year.
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Feb 25, 2012 15:02
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