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So the new episode has been out for a while now. http://www.onepieceofficial.com/videos.aspx?v=8102
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Dec 26, 2011 01:39
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 21:48 |
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THE KING OF THE FISH-MAN ISLAND! NEPTUNE, THE GOD OF THE SEA! Here's the latest episode.
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Jan 8, 2012 05:29
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The scenes with Sanji continue to be offensive.
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Jan 8, 2012 07:00
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gnome7 posted:The scenes with Sanji continue to be offensive. If your favorite before was Sanji, it's now Zoro after this arc. Everyone else's training has had a positive impact on them except maybe Zoro's depth perception.
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Jan 8, 2012 21:57
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How exactly do oars, paddlewheels and sails work underwater I don't even
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Jan 8, 2012 22:34
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Anony Mouse posted:How exactly do oars, paddlewheels and sails work underwater I don't even Haki and/or nanobots. Whichever choice sparks a 50 page argument over the matter.
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Jan 8, 2012 22:43
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Anony Mouse posted:How exactly do oars, paddlewheels and sails work underwater I don't even bubbles
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Jan 9, 2012 00:00
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Shadow0 posted:If your favorite before was Sanji, it's now Zoro after this arc. Everyone else's training has had a positive impact on them except maybe Zoro's depth perception. I still prefer him over Zoro. I'm not sure I'd say he's my favorite becuase Luffy, Franky and Brook are great too, but am I the only one not getting bent out of shape about this transgender thing? I just don't think Oda has any bone against them and is playing it for laughs, so I don't see any offense to take. It's like when stand up's make jokes about various races and ethnicities. I don't think they have any actual beef, so I just laugh at the joke and forget it. Anony Mouse posted:How exactly do oars, paddlewheels and sails work underwater I don't even Why would they work any differently underwater than on the surface of the water? Even then, oars and paddles only do any work when they're under the surface of the water, so it's basically exactly the same thing. Sails would still work as well I would imagine, given that the water currents would push against them and create pressure, thus moving them forward. Turn sail to dictate direction. Trim for speed etc. I'm sure there are more efficent methods of travelling underwater, but I can't see why any of those methods wouldn't generate propulsion for some reason.
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Jan 9, 2012 00:57
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tsob posted:Why would they work any differently underwater than on the surface of the water? Even then, oars and paddles only do any work when they're under the surface of the water, so it's basically exactly the same thing. Sails would still work as well I would imagine, given that the water currents would push against them and create pressure, thus moving them forward. Turn sail to dictate direction. Trim for speed etc. I'm sure there are more efficent methods of travelling underwater, but I can't see why any of those methods wouldn't generate propulsion for some reason. Think about it this way. The paddle is spinning in a circle. Half of the paddle is in the water; this is the part pushing the boat along. Now imagine if the top half that were spinning in the opposite direction were also in the water. Suddenly the paddle is gaining resistance in two directions rather than one, so you're effectively becoming stationary, or (worse) will be causing the whole boat to begin spinning in circles. Oars work about the same way. You'd be gaining resistance with all movement, so you'd be going nowhere. Unless the oars were tremendously thin, and turned on their side when pulling back to significantly decrease resistance... But this would still be quite silly and difficult.
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Jan 9, 2012 01:23
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Oh yea, that makes sense. Well, now I feel dumb 
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Jan 9, 2012 02:20
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tsob posted:I still prefer him over Zoro. I'm not sure I'd say he's my favorite becuase Luffy, Franky and Brook are great too, but am I the only one not getting bent out of shape about this transgender thing? I just don't think Oda has any bone against them and is playing it for laughs, so I don't see any offense to take. It's like when stand up's make jokes about various races and ethnicities. I don't think they have any actual beef, so I just laugh at the joke and forget it. The only way I justify Oda's representation of transgender people is by imagining that they're actually a separate race of being in this universe who more closely resemble drag queens and that Sanji's aversion to them is considered in the same class as having an aversion to fishmen. Seriously, those woman are the most ridiculous things ever. Compare:   A real MtF trans versus an Okama from One Piece. If this was an American show I would be outraged. Still, most of the actual hatred of them only comes from Sanji and random enemy soldiers. Back in Impel Down they were portrayed as being good people respected by all, but that was back when they were just drag queens and not referred to as actual transsexual people like when Sanji went to their island. So while it's undefendable, it's still overlookable. Still I'm getting sick of Sanji's nosebleed gag.
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Jan 9, 2012 02:43
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tsob posted:am I the only one not getting bent out of shape about this transgender thing? I just don't think Oda has any bone against them and is playing it for laughs, so I don't see any offense to take. It's like when stand up's make jokes about various races and ethnicities. I don't think they have any actual beef, so I just laugh at the joke and forget it. There's a phrase floating around that I think sums it up well: Intent Is Not Magical. Not ~meaning~ any harm doesn't mean you don't CAUSE harm when you write or say (insert horribly offensive thing here), and you can't wave your good/harmless intentions around as an excuse for not acknowledging or apologizing for the fact that you have hurt someone. You don't have to be a cartoonish racist/homophobe/etc before things you do or say or make jokes about count as -ist. I'm still torn on what I think of the issue in One Piece. I thought it started out a pretty positive representation - weird but positive, because everything in One Piece is weird as hell. Then it grew less and less positive and Sanji's character became increasingly gross and I'm very ready for Oda to stop this now.
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Jan 9, 2012 04:32
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Liar posted:Think about it this way. The paddle is spinning in a circle. Half of the paddle is in the water; this is the part pushing the boat along. Now imagine if the top half that were spinning in the opposite direction were also in the water. Suddenly the paddle is gaining resistance in two directions rather than one, so you're effectively becoming stationary, or (worse) will be causing the whole boat to begin spinning in circles. This is how frogs and other web-footed animals swim. It's not all that impractical.
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Jan 9, 2012 04:42
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QueerPope posted:The only way I justify Oda's representation of transgender people is by imagining that they're actually a separate race of being in this universe who more closely resemble drag queens and that Sanji's aversion to them is considered in the same class as having an aversion to fishmen. Huh? Did you watch Impel Down? Ivankov turned that dude into a total hot chick. Also, these aren't "real" transsexuals. The way I figure it, they're actual drag queens. I think the Impel Down section did trans community a lot of justice: mtf, ftm, drag queens, and drag kings respectively. I think you're taking it too seriously and I find it absolutely hilarious. Sanji got a major boost from me, post-time skip as he continuously steals chapter after chapter of laughs. Where's the proof that they're transsexuals and not just drag queens? Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 05:10
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mushroom_spore posted:There's a phrase floating around that I think sums it up well: Intent Is Not Magical. Not ~meaning~ any harm doesn't mean you don't CAUSE harm when you write or say (insert horribly offensive thing here), and you can't wave your good/harmless intentions around as an excuse for not acknowledging or apologizing for the fact that you have hurt someone. You don't have to be a cartoonish racist/homophobe/etc before things you do or say or make jokes about count as -ist. I had a big long post typed up to say why I disagreed with you, twice, but it started to feel a little bit too political and argumentative for an anime board each time. Suffice to say, I disgree, though I'd be willing to apologize if I thought had offended someone by my words or actions in just about any case. I don't think Oda has any -ism against transgender folk based on Impel Down though so I don't care that he's making fun of them.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:20
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You don't care that he's making fun of them because you're not trans. That's fine for you, by all means, but can you seriously not see how someone who is might get offended by this? People read silly manga like One Piece to get distracted from reality, not to be reminded that a decent chunk of humanity literally thinks they're less than human.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:32
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Jorenko posted:This is how frogs and other web-footed animals swim. It's not all that impractical. The Frog:leg and Ship:paddle ratio is completely different, they'd barely move at all.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:33
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There have been progressive and backwards elements to the series's representation of transpeople and such. Overall, I try to look past it, but I agree the backwards elements make me kind of uncomfortable.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:38
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Oda didn't write all the over the top stuff the anime team has done with these cats. He had, maybe, a panel dedicated for the sabody take off and Sanji's doners. But, with the anime team needing to stretch stuff out to fight filler we get constant drawn-out call backs that take it a bit far.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:40
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Endorph posted:You don't care that he's making fun of them because you're not trans. That's fine for you, by all means, but can you seriously not see how someone who is might get offended by this? People read silly manga like One Piece to get distracted from reality, not to be reminded that a decent chunk of humanity literally thinks they're less than human. I don't get offended when people tell jokes about the Irish so long as I don't think they're nationalist against Irish. Which is to say never, since I've never met someone I think actually has one. It's not a big thing these days. I don't mind when I flick past the comedy channel and see Chris Rock telling jokes about white folks either. I even watch some of it if I'm bored occasionally. Yes, I can see why someone might get offended but I don't think Oda has an issue with transgender folk based on Impel Down so I think those people should simply learn to let it go. Part of being an accepted group is having a joke made at your expense. I realise that sounds callous, but self censorship and what not for fear of offending someone, somewhere bugs me and I'd prefer to target people who've displayed actual phobias or beligerence against a specific group than someone who has shown respect towards them, even if he tells a joke at their expense too. Edit: I should probably add that I'm mostly going off the manga here, and have only seen some of the episodes that feature this stuff - not all of them, because I only watch the occasional episode. tsob fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 05:42
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Himuro posted:Where's the proof that they're transsexuals and not just drag queens? Appachai fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 05:48
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The trans jokes now are about as serious as John Travolta in Hairspray. They're so abnormal and a parody that they shouldn't be taken serious. The ones people are getting upset by are absolutely nothing like any transgender person I've ever seen. I've never seen anyone look or act like that unless it's a flamboyant parody. For example, Hard Gay. I don't think there's anyone in the world that thinks that gay people act anything like him.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:54
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tsob posted:than someone who has shown respect towards them, even if he tells a joke at their expense too. The "joke" here is basically the trans equivalent of "haha, those black people, with their huge lips and their stealing watermelons and going to jail all the time. Am I right? Hilarious!" If you make jokes like that, here's a hint: you don't actually respect the people it's about. If you do respect them, why do you find it funny? Oda didn't pull the stereotype of ugly crossdressers who want to forcibly convert straight men to their ways out of thin air. Real, actual people in real life are frequently hurt or killed or have their rights taken away because other people believe in stereotypes like that. It's not at all comparable to Chris Rock making fun of white people, and I'm not capable of finding it funny.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:08
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LockHeart posted:Oda didn't write all the over the top stuff the anime team has done with these cats. He had, maybe, a panel dedicated for the sabody take off and Sanji's doners. But, with the anime team needing to stretch stuff out to fight filler we get constant drawn-out call backs that take it a bit far. I'd agree it's definitely not nearly as bad in the manga. LockHeart posted:For example, Hard Gay. I don't think there's anyone in the world that thinks that gay people act anything like him. Eh, I don't know. When I was a kid, I didn't know what a real gay person was like, and a lot of what I thought was informed by things not unlike Hard Gay.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:09
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mushroom_spore posted:The "joke" here is basically the trans equivalent of "haha, those black people, with their huge lips and their stealing watermelons and going to jail all the time. Am I right? Hilarious!" The joke seems to be mainly in Sanji's reactions, and not the way transgender/crossdressers look. Their look is just overblown in the same way everything in One Piece is overblown.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:11
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An interesting aside: This is what Oda drew when someone asked him what the straw hats would look like if the hormone shot got used on them.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:16
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tsob posted:The joke seems to be mainly in Sanji's reactions, and not the way transgender/crossdressers look. When we had the last discussion about this, I was still leaning partly towards the joke being at Sanji's expense for being a -phobic jerk too. Some of it is, or can be read that way (most of the blood donors gag) but honestly not much of it. When the okama themselves are portrayed as negative stereotypes, it's not about Sanji's reactions anymore.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:21
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mushroom_spore posted:When we had the last discussion about this, I was still leaning partly towards the joke being at Sanji's expense for being a -phobic jerk too. Some of it is, or can be read that way (most of the blood donors gag) but honestly not much of it. When the okama themselves are portrayed as negative stereotypes, it's not about Sanji's reactions anymore. I don't think the joke is "oh look at what a phobic dick Sanji is", I think it's much more simple and just "how overblown can we make Sanji's reaction to something he doesn't like". It's not at the expense of anyone, it's just the best way to get an over the top reaction of that character - because that's what his personal tick is.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:24
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tsob posted:I don't think the joke is "oh look at what a phobic dick Sanji is" His personal tick is that he's horribly traumatized from two years spent running from aggressive trans/gay people who wanted to convert him, and that he finds them so repulsive that he (manga spoiler) gets a powerup from it. That "something he doesn't like" is trans/gay men. His personal tick is being a -phobe. I don't know how else you can read it.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:31
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mushroom_spore posted:His personal tick is that he's horribly traumatized from two years spent running from aggressive trans/gay people who wanted to convert him, and that he finds them so repulsive that he (manga spoiler) gets a powerup from it. I read it that his personal tick is loving women, if not being an outright lech - and that this is just an extension of that. He's horrified by being fooled (as he sees it) or come on to by men instead of the sexy women he imagines.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:39
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tsob posted:He's horrified by being fooled (as he sees it) or come on to by men instead of the sexy women he imagines. Which is amazingly textbook trans/homophobia. Not being interested and turning someone down, or whatever, is one thing. This is something else.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:45
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Endorph posted:You don't care that he's making fun of them because you're not trans. That's fine for you, by all means, but can you seriously not see how someone who is might get offended by this? People read silly manga like One Piece to get distracted from reality, not to be reminded that a decent chunk of humanity literally thinks they're less than human. Er...I have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder. How do you know anything about me? As for the jokes, I'll admit that the anime is really dragging the jokes out. The manga didn't do it nearly as much as this. But...that's the anime for you. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 06:49
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mushroom_spore posted:Which is amazingly textbook trans/homophobia. Not being interested and turning someone down, or whatever, is one thing. This is something else. Yes, it's blowing his reaction up as large as possible for comic effect. Just like Nami gets greedy when it comes to money, even if it means stealing from people or charging her friends money for simple favors. Or Zoro getting lost and cutting up some complete strangers ship and killing their dream because of it. Or Franky flashing his gonads in front of the whole town while Robin suplexes them just to get him on board. All pretty much the same in my book, because it's all about placing the person in a situation that will highlight that personal tick Oda gave the character and then blowing it's reaction up as large as possible for comedy. Why aren't you getting offended that he's a pervert that is willing to steal in to showers and spy on the women in them out of interest? Or that he only wanted the invisibility fruit so he could perv on women?
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Jan 9, 2012 06:52
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Himuro posted:Er...I have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder. How do you know anything about me?
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Jan 9, 2012 06:52
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Mr. Lobe posted:I'd agree it's definitely not nearly as bad in the manga. I'm glad someone read that I thought it got skipped over 
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Jan 9, 2012 06:55
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tsob posted:Why aren't you getting offended that he's a pervert that is willing to steal in to showers and spy on the women in them out of interest? ...because it's in no way relevant to a conversation about Oda writing the okama?
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Jan 9, 2012 06:55
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Endorph posted:I was talking to tsob? I probably should have quoted them to make that clearer but. For the record I tried on women's clothes and make up several times when I was 16...maybe 17, over the course of a couple of months. It's not something I think of that often these days and I'm not sure why exactly I did it in retrospect since it's not something I ever feel a desire to do nowadays, but I did find it fun and the clothes were nice. I also envy women the sheer variety in clothes they have to choose from, where as with guys it's pretty much: jeans/t-shirt, suit or combats/t-shirt. If I could get a shot of hormones to be a woman for part of the year I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd never want it to be permanent though, because I do enjoy having a dong at the end of the day. I understand, at least to some degree where these folk are coming from. I'm not saying I understand their pain or anything, by the way, because I never did it in public or suffered any persecution for having done so - but I do understand the desire to want to. mushroom_spore posted:...because it's in no way relevant to a conversation about Oda writing the okama? It is relevant to him writing in an offensive manner though, because that's him being offensive towards women's rights.
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Jan 9, 2012 06:59
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There's a difference, though. Pretty much everyone understands and agrees that wanting to spy on women in the changing room is a bad thing, or at least an inappropriate thing. Even actual sexists would probably agree with that, at least in the sense of "You don't need to tell everybody about wanting to spy on them." A very large chunk of the population is woefully misinformed about trans issues, on the other hand. They're very rarely talked about or portrayed in media, and when they are it's often inaccurate, vilifies them, or both. There are probably quite a few people out there who have literally had no exposure to the topic before One Piece, at least directly, especially considering how young some of it's readers are, and there are probably a few people who think Sanji is perfectly justified in both being horrified by and wanting to beat the poo poo out of them.
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Jan 9, 2012 07:07
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So are you saying that all potrayals of transpeople or crossdressers in media should be universally positive until they've become unremarkable in society?
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Jan 9, 2012 07:15
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I feel like this is a trick question. What do you mean by "universally positive?"
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Jan 9, 2012 07:19
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