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I paid for the game early on, mainly on the promise of its potential. I'm not a programmer, though I'm learning, and can't speak to game development, but as I saw the mod scene come forward, I realized that Notch's continued development wasn't exactly the point. If you view vanilla Minecraft as merely the framework, on which you hang a series of mods to make the game you want, then I think we have something worthy of the praise the game has been given. For the last ten years, the games we continue to play are also the ones that lend themselves to independent modification, even just an upgrade in graphical quality. This game allows for nearly infinite tinkering, even in the current state, and this is why the API needs to be the focus of the company, in my opinion. Hell there are mods now that allow you to create profiles, so you can make factories one day and roleplay Robinson Crusoe the next. Is it worth $30? Maybe. I personally feel that a dollar an hour of enjoyment is a fair trade, and when I purchase games, that's how I determine worth. Minecraft in this sense was, and is for me, a good buy.
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Jan 11, 2012 17:38
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Danzou posted: Notch account spottedBut seriously: Enzer posted:Then you add on top of the fact that Notch has been making excuses of late about why the game is so buggy. It is a bit disheartening when the developer of a game decides not to fix poo poo or improve things (mob ai for example) because he thinks that having a dumbed down buggy experience is what gives minecraft its character and draw. No, it doesn't. Not only that, some of the choices (or features, if you want to call it that) Notch have made are really strange and mindboggling. I remember one guy who had built this cross continental railroad, with lightstone and glass. Suddenly Notch decides that lightstone should be classed as "glass" instead of "stone", which prompted that next time the dude logged on, he could witness how roughly a billion rails just popped off like panties at a Tom Jones concert. That event just marked, to me, how Notch just stumbles around with the game while justifying every change or feature are a part of his "vision". I'm not sure I'd pay 30 dollars for Minecraft, but what I did pay during Alpha was alright.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:30
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During an interview in early 2010, Notch went to 4chan's videogame board and the official Minecraft IRC channel to answer questions about the future of Minecraft. When asked about plans for new features, he delivered many points of development. Future features included: *Carryable light sources *Torches that burn out, Lanterns that never do *Multiplayer modes that can take a week in real time, with competitive goals and sabotage/raiding *Non-tracked wheeled carts to carry goods over long distances *MINECARTS. Notch says he wants them to work on tracks, and also be RIDEABLE. *Goblins, trolls, dragons, golems, other new mobs, underwater monsters, megabeasts *Trolls can throw rocks, goblins come in swarms *Several kinds of monster "towns" can be found, either to play with or wipe out in infinite mode (e.g. goblin village, monster nest). Interactions can be hostile, friendly, or neutral, and encourage trading, quests, and development. *Ramp tiles (to replace half-blocks, which he says he dislikes) to facilitate quick travel and over which carts will have to travel *Ragdolls for everything on death *Much more "fleshed-out" crafting tree *Magic and enchanting planned but not really detailed, suggests using alchemical mixes made from enemy parts to make things you can sort of socket into equipment to enchant *Lava can be hauled around with buckets of the proper material *Animals can be moved/kept much easier, leashes/fences, etc, zoos possible *Maps are confirmed, possibly with custom annotations *Clocks and compasses confirmed, complete with animated textures *Crouching keeps you from falling off edges so it's perfect for building bridges *Diamond will be better, currently sucks *Ladders might be implemented if he can't come up with something better, main problem is FPS ladder controls suck (get stuck, fall by accident, etc) *Downloadable offline version coming when MP is released *Seasons: Changed rainfall, crop viability, ice and snow in winter, etc. *Smoke may be added, necessitating chimneys *Playing as a monster mode would easily be possible but boring without an inventory *Signposts are coming *Furniture (at LEAST chairs+tables) coming *Some enemies will be able to break through blocks to get at you, but he wants it to be fair so you don't just come back and find your fort in ruins without you even being there. He did say this: "Seeing a couple of lava golems advance on your settlement and know they'd mess it up bad if they reach it would be quite fun indeed." Things in bold were more or less delivered in the nearly 2 years since. It's nice seeing the things that he followed through on, and while some features like maps and enchanting didn't come out quite the way I'd hoped, they were at least a sort of step in the right direction. Still, some of the stuff we could have had really does look fun.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:39
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Minecraft might be worth $30, but his handling of Minecraft means I will never buy another game from his company ever again.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:40
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Minecraft might be worth $30, but his handling of Minecraft means I will never buy another game from his company ever again. Really? Out of everyone at Mojang, I think Notch is the only one I wouldn't call reliable. I don't think Minecraft, as it stands now, looks like it is worth $30, but ever since I bought it before it was even called alpha I've had countless hours of fun with it, more than $50 games. That said, I've gotten a little burnt out. The only way I can really play this game is either multiplayer or with mods. Back then, updates came out fairly often, and compared to what the rest of the game had to offer, were huge (loving ladders and doors? Holy poo poo!). Now, things like breeding and villages and newer types of crops don't even phase me. I guess what Minecraft really needs is more coders to speed up development.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:55
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Vinigre posted:I guess what Minecraft really needs is more coders to speed up development. But that would just ruin its quirky charm and indie magic 
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Jan 11, 2012 18:57
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I want to harvest some mushroom blocks, you can do that with silk touch, right? The minecraft wiki says you can, but someone earlier in the thread said you couldn't. There was a chart I read a while back that said what level of experience you needed for each enchantment, for each tier of tool. I can no longer find it. What level would a Silk Touch enchantment be for a pick?
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Jan 11, 2012 20:53
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Jamesman posted:Are there any tutorials for planning out and building more realistic statues in Minecraft? The only things I've found are for large-scale versions of Minecraft models or 2D pixel art. You aren't going to be able to build a recognizable model out of cubes unless you make it on a huge scale. That being said, it sounds like you could benefit from some art instructions books to learn about proportions and building models of the human body. Imagine trying to build the David with lego blocks, you are going to need a ton of them.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:02
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quote:@jeb_ So it looks like 1.1 is aimed for tomorrow. I know Jeb has said he's mostly fixed bugs and a few other things, and I haven't heard anything about added features, so my question is this: is there anything that's going to be included in this patch that will break my current world? Or should I be able to continue on in it with no problem?
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Jan 11, 2012 21:04
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I want to harvest some mushroom blocks, you can do that with silk touch, right? The minecraft wiki says you can, but someone earlier in the thread said you couldn't. You can, but they won't be the same as the block you harvested. When placed, a mushroom block will have the bottom texture on all six sides. So you can harvest and place mushroom blocks, but they won't look like actual mushrooms any more.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:14
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Schwarzwald posted:You can, but they won't be the same as the block you harvested. When placed, a mushroom block will have the bottom texture on all six sides. So you can harvest and place mushroom blocks, but they won't look like actual mushrooms any more. Man, that's disappointing.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:24
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ANAL_CUNT posted:So it looks like 1.1 is aimed for tomorrow. I know Jeb has said he's mostly fixed bugs and a few other things, and I haven't heard anything about added features, so my question is this: is there anything that's going to be included in this patch that will break my current world? Or should I be able to continue on in it with no problem? Possibly. There might be new terrain generation, which could make your map look ugly. But other than that? I doubt it.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:25
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Danzou posted:I don't get this whole idea that Minecraft isn't worth thirty bucks. Outsides of Smash Brothers and maybe one or two others, I've never gotten so many hours of enjoyment out of a game. I feel like its not a case of people not getting their money's worth of gameplay, more so that people wanted to have the game more feature complete for the price point. When it was $15, it was a lot easier to say, "oh thats very broken and there isn't much extra content, but hes working on that etc." Now that its full price and "released" the same amount of gameplay is there and great, but we also have many of the issues (charming indie quirks?) that have dogged MC since its Alpha state, just now in a full-priced, full-released game. I don't think its so much the gameplay value, which in a world like Minecraft is going to be pretty high regardless, but a feeling like its still basically the same game that you bought at $15+finishing only now $30 and still more or less the same thing. As someone who isn't that upset about it, I feel this is whats going on. Honestly though, if you took me aside for the first time and showed me Minecraft as it is today, I'd probably wish there was a more complete demo. There are so many things that a new player has to (or often, gets to) learn about the world, and the game does a pretty awful job telling it to you. At $15, it was a nice evening diversion with a pdf on how to survive your first evening that got me interested, but I'm really not sure I'd have done the same with the point at $30.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:29
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Danzou posted:What bugs are you even talking about? I decided to go through the bugs page on Minecraftwiki. I found this. Buglist posted:Interesting terrain generation, seems like part of a nether portal, and a few hundred dragon eggs, causes game's memory to rocket ( up to 1.5gb from normal of about 300mb)  Looks fine to me
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Jan 11, 2012 21:46
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Vinigre posted:I guess what Minecraft really needs is more coders to speed up development. That depends on a wide variety of factors. Often, adding developers to a product makes development slower until the newer developers can get up to speed. This ramp-up time is usually measured in months. If they're incompetent, then it can be a net productivity decrease in perpetuity. There's also the matter of code quality. Tightly coupled code may mean that a few developers working on a code base requires high communication overhead, which can drag down development speed. In practice, yes, Minecraft probably needs more developers, but its not quite as simple as some people seem to think.
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Jan 11, 2012 21:53
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Estel posted:Minecraft Chain World Well, it seems this time is going to be different. This time the chain world ended before starting v  v
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Jan 11, 2012 22:02
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Danzou posted:I don't get this whole idea that Minecraft isn't worth thirty bucks. Outsides of Smash Brothers and maybe one or two others, I've never gotten so many hours of enjoyment out of a game. It's worth about ten bucks no matter how much time you put into it.
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Jan 11, 2012 22:06
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Iacen posted:Not only that, some of the choices (or features, if you want to call it that) Notch have made are really strange and mindboggling. The 'Adventure Update' however was a trainwreck of disapointment, delays and broken promises.
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Jan 11, 2012 22:06
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Also, I'm guessing that the reason why so much time is spent making so little progress is code quality, not because the dev team is unskilled. Lots of time for little progress, along with weird bugs that seem disconnected with their triggering conditions, are the hallmarks of poorly constructed code.
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Jan 11, 2012 22:09
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Yeah, I barely have time to play minecraft at all and I'm still finding new bugs just in interactions between redstone and pistons at a rate of about one every week or two. They seem to have problems with both low-quality code and just fundamental/conceptual logical errors with how stuff within their own code interacts to the point where it would really make sense to just rewrite redstone functionality from scratch, but it seems like their commitment to coming out with an API ASAP so that mods don't get broken again would preclude this from ever happening.
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Jan 11, 2012 23:01
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 Are you tired of all the bugs and troubles brought on by these fancy new worlds with their signs, ladders, buckets, biomes, wolves, pistons, and actual, working, made-out-of-wood DOORS?Well now you too can go back to a time before all that and relive the glorious rose-tinted days of InDev!   To a time when you could custom-generate your own tiny little world with its own specifications!  When you started out in your own little house, and had no way of changing spawn -- because there was no respawning!  A time when you had to save and load and try not to die!  A time when your world of intrigue was filled with flattened, bizarre landscapes with harsh lighting, and texture packs weren't even supported!  When the entirety of your little world could be surveyed from a single vantage point!  When your character didn't know what to do with his arms when he walked! When there were only two animals and four monsters! When every single entity in the game made an UGH sound when getting hurt!  When cliffs were nondescript gray walls and mountains didn't exist! When sheep wool came in 3 colors, only one of which was actually useful! When wooden and stone tools only lasted half as long! When armor was made from wool, and not leather!  When day and night cycles left big schisms of half-transitioned blocks across the world, flowers were only for decoration, and the Nether was a far-off dream because obsidian didn't even exist yet!  When the underground was even darker and more boring! Why wait? If you miss the old days or never got a chance to experience them, now's the time to cast off all these so-called innovations and go back to the way it was!
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Jan 11, 2012 23:12
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I thought Indev was lost to the sands of time.  Thank you very much!
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Jan 11, 2012 23:22
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Not sure if this is the right place, but we've been having some nether issues on our SMP server. Ever since 1.0.0, the nether seems to be read-only -- even way far from the portal, you can't place or destroy blocks. I'm wondering if it's because I used MCedit to delete all the nether chunks and generate new ones around that time? We also tried deleting the nether folder and recreating it, but that doesn't help. Anyone seen anything like this?
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Jan 12, 2012 00:07
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Man, that's disappointing. You might not like the effort involved, but Pistons will move mushroom blocks without altering what they look like. I remember seeing a picture of a totally sweet mushroom house someone had made by shoving the blocks with pistons.
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Jan 12, 2012 02:19
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Mincraft is updated to 1.1!Changes posted:
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Jan 12, 2012 16:45
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Minecraft might be worth $30, but his handling of Minecraft means I will never buy another game from his company ever again. I agree with this 100%. I love this game, even in its ultimately incomplete and buggy state, but the handling of it has been nothing short of awful in pretty much every single way. I will never buy any mojang products in the future. And more over, I hope this stupid business model of paying for a beta drops dead. fondue posted:Mincraft is updated to 1.1! well isn't that wonderful. Everything in the game and all those mods that finally got fixed are shot now so we can get mob eggs in creative, wool regen that should have always been in, and a whole bunch of useless poo poo.
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Jan 12, 2012 16:55
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THE MACHO MAN posted:well isn't that wonderful. Everything in the game and all those mods that finally got fixed are shot now so we can get mob eggs in creative, wool regen that should have always been in, and a whole bunch of useless poo poo. 
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Jan 12, 2012 17:05
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THE MACHO MAN posted:whole bunch of useless poo poo. 
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Jan 12, 2012 17:06
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What happened to making biomes less flat? Bastard.
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Jan 12, 2012 17:12
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Honeydew posted:I will only consider that not useless if it becomes the default language option when your system clock is set to September 19th.
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Jan 12, 2012 17:15
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chippy posted:What happened to making biomes less flat? Bastard. I dunno, I've generated half a dozen worlds since patching and flown around and they all seem less flat than usual. I might just be coming up with good seeds though, because nothing's drastically different
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Jan 12, 2012 17:27
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Vib Rib posted:Ugh, why the gently caress are they giving us stuff we've wanted since forever? It's only going to screw up my mods. Think the whole issue is that there isn't much in this patch to really justify having the entire modding community grind to a halt. I would hazard a guess that the majority of Minecraft users play modded minecraft. Now, outside of SSP mods, we have SMP issues as well, every time Minecraft updates, Bukkit breaks and needs to be updated which can take anywhere between a few days to a few weeks (more often weeks). The issue with that is without bukkit and bukkit mods, it is hard to have any kind of anti-grief control and some mods can can take weeks to months to update for bukkit. That is a lot of frustration for regrowing wool, minor bug fixes and enchantable bows. I'm not saying that Minecraft shouldn't update, what I am saying is that Jeb should have held off a bit longer on this update, fleshed out what it gave and perhaps released it with the the modding API which is supposed to be out in March. That way when the patch breaks all the mods, the mod community will be able to use the new modding API so that patches will be less likely to break them from then on. With the way things did happen, however, what we are going to see is that mods slowly begin making progress to being able to update and then the modding API is going to come out and we will be back to square one all over again.
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Jan 12, 2012 17:34
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Honeydew posted:Canadian English, eh?
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Jan 12, 2012 17:39
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So I've been having an odd problem with playing Minecraft online. Ever since I got a new adapter it's been causing issues and I'm not quite sure why. Even though I don't have problems with any other site, Minecraft will always lag noticeably with my main connection. However if I switch to a slower, less reliable connection Minecraft runs fine. I'm not sure why that connection works better for Minecraft but it just does. Problem is I lose that connection a lot so I can't really play the game with it. Anyone know what the issue might be? I know this is pretty much a shot in the dark since I'm providing so little information but I'm bad with computers and honestly don't know what's going on.
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Jan 12, 2012 17:44
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Enzer posted:Think the whole issue is that there isn't much in this patch to really justify having the entire modding community grind to a halt. Enzer posted:I would hazard a guess that the majority of Minecraft users play modded minecraft.
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Jan 12, 2012 17:47
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Vib Rib posted:I'd agree, except since the option to ignore updates was added you have the option to keep playing with your modded setup all you like. I mean maybe you won't get more updates for this particular version, but that's hardly a reason to stop official updates. True, but what has happened before is that a mod may have updated with some bugs, a patch would come out and then you'd be waiting a rather long time for the mod to be updated. Yes, that is more on the modder's fault, however I still believe that minecraft patches could have been handled a little better, especially since Jeb is more in touch with the modding community then Notch ever was, just seems an odd time to release a patch with not much content to it, not saying that patches should stop all together. Guess what I am getting at is that since Jeb is doing weekly snapshots of future patches, if you wanted to play with all the new poo poo, use that until you had a lengthy list of items in the update. Really this is only an issue right now and will no longer be when the modding API comes out, so why not wait till then? As for your second bit, why I said I was hazarding a guess, don't know why you are poking at that comment. It is just my opinion that with the popularity of such mods like Optifine, TMI/NEI and bukkit servers, I think that there would be a great deal of users who play minecraft in some modded fashion. VVVV Really I do not think how big the patch is really effects how long it takes Bukkit to update as the whole issue is is that the drat code gets obfuscated every time there is a patch. Enzer fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 12, 2012 |
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Jan 12, 2012 18:02
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Vib Rib posted:I'd agree, except since the option to ignore updates was added you have the option to keep playing with your modded setup all you like. I mean maybe you won't get more updates for this particular version, but that's hardly a reason to stop official updates. While I'm sure only a fraction of people play with single-player mods, the majority of servers run Bukkit or similar. Mods not being instantly compatable is still an awful argument against the game updating! For me, smaller updates are preferable as Bukkit will have a new RB out in a week, rather than the Month we had to wait for 1.0.
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Jan 12, 2012 18:02
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Vib Rib posted:Ugh, why the gently caress are they giving us stuff we've wanted since forever?
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Jan 12, 2012 18:16
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Iacen posted:Which of those changes could be describes as "wanted since forever"? Wool regrowth on sheep, for one.
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Jan 12, 2012 18:18
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Enzer posted:True, but what has happened before is that a mod may have updated with some bugs, a patch would come out and then you'd be waiting a rather long time for the mod to be updated. Yes, that is more on the modder's fault, however I still believe that minecraft patches could have been handled a little better, especially since Jeb is more in touch with the modding community then Notch ever was, just seems an odd time to release a patch with not much content to it, not saying that patches should stop all together. Iacen posted:Which of those changes could be describes as "wanted since forever"?
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Jan 12, 2012 18:19
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