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Ridonkulous posted:Is there anything stopping Milsandre from bring back Jon Snow ala Beric Dondarion? That's not something that's done deliberately, is it? The Kiss is normally a death ritual, and Thoros was surprised when it brought Beric back.
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Jan 13, 2012 06:22
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Ridonkulous posted:He was normal when he was revived wasn't he? Well, kinda. It's mentioned that Beric lost more and more of his personality and memories every time he was revived. And seeing how Catelyn's batshit insane as Stoneheart...
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Jan 13, 2012 08:01
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Am I insane or did GRRM become loving obsessed with the word "jape" in A Dance With Dragons?
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Jan 13, 2012 08:04
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What if Jon gets revived but like Catelyn ceases to be a POV character? I feel like the end of Catelyn's POV status in stormaswords was significant beyond the fact that it made the epilogue loving amazing, and it represents just how much getting pumped full of fire magic as a corpse can change a few things in one's life, or undeath as it were. Maybe Jon gets resurrected but we only hear about it in offhand remarks about the new zombie lord commander at the wall in Cersei's or Sansa's chapters or whatever. This would be kinda good I think because it would add some sort of consequence to that idiot cliffhanger poo poo and we sorta get to keep Jon on board.
Carly Gay Dead Son fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jan 13, 2012 |
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Jan 13, 2012 08:11
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Ridonkulous posted:Is there anything stopping Milsandre from bring back Jon Snow ala Beric Dondarion? Yeah I think all the people in this thread who were hoping or expecting Jon to stay dead have just grown tired of his POV chapters. There's no in-story explanation yet as to why the most powerful resurrection person in her most powerful place would not be able to raise him from the dead- so from where I'm standing it is expected unless The Gurm wants to throw a wrench in there somewhere. Lady Stoneheart, in addition to being worm food for days, just had her last hope in the world murdered in front of her. I'd say that her actions are more than partially explained by the events of the red wedding, moreso than her late resurrection.
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Jan 13, 2012 08:22
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Ashrik posted:Yeah I think all the people in this thread who were hoping or expecting Jon to stay dead have just grown tired of his POV chapters. There's no in-story explanation yet as to why the most powerful resurrection person in her most powerful place would not be able to raise him from the dead- so from where I'm standing it is expected unless The Gurm wants to throw a wrench in there somewhere. Not to mention that the manner of her death did significant damage to her speech organs, explaining that aspect of her new form.
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Jan 13, 2012 09:17
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Orbital Sapling posted:Am I insane or did GRRM become loving obsessed with the word "jape" in A Dance With Dragons? He used jape (or japery) 44 times in ADWD, versus 62 times in all of the other books combined.
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Jan 13, 2012 11:06
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Coughing-up Tweed posted:He used jape (or japery) 44 times in ADWD, versus 62 times in all of the other books combined. Many and more droll japes, nuncle, but words are wind.
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Jan 13, 2012 11:08
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Japers are gonna jape, like nipples on a breastplate.
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Jan 13, 2012 11:30
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Word counts are as useless as neeps on a nuncle.
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Jan 13, 2012 14:54
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Mereen is where whores go to poo poo water and blood. No gold flecks though.
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Jan 13, 2012 14:55
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JesustheDarkLord posted:Word counts are as useless as neeps on a nuncle. You haggle like a crone with a fish JesustheDarkLord, maybe you were fathered on a fishwife... R+L=dragonwarg
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Jan 13, 2012 15:09
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GRRM likes rape so much he wanted to use a rhyming word for jokes.
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Jan 13, 2012 15:55
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I'm surprised we don't hear more about "Jack-a-Napes."
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Jan 13, 2012 16:01
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It was no jape for my father when I put a bolt through his gut (repeat ad nauseum)
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Jan 13, 2012 19:03
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hailthefish posted:Many and more droll japes, nuncle, but words are wind. Dark wings, dark words my friend.
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Jan 13, 2012 19:14
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Vertigus posted:Dark wings, dark words my friend. But words are wind, how do these phrases interact? Do dark wings bring dark winds? Is Drogon going to start another Doom that chokes Westeros or Essos in the ash of dark winds?
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Jan 13, 2012 19:27
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Ridonkulous posted:Only thing wrong with "Stoneheart" is that she can't talk and is a crazy killer now. The only thing wrong with Zombie Cat, is that she took the place of a character that was worth reading about.
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Jan 13, 2012 20:59
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Thete is nothing wrong with using the word japes, you bunch of nitpickers. ADWD had half again as many japes in it as the rest of the series, because it had more moments of japery. Why call a jape anything other than a jape for the sake of variance, when it is actually just a jape and best described as a jape. GRRM prose takes no mercy on your thesaurus induced approach, it describes thing with a singular clarity. So if you have a problem with japes, don't read a book with such a vast amount of japery. I find it a refreshing new entry in the long heralded tradition of japery, in fact. Because the whole book is a loving joke.
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Jan 13, 2012 21:06
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Fog Tripper posted:The only thing wrong with Zombie Cat, is that she took the place of a character that was worth reading about. Patchface?
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Jan 13, 2012 21:09
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Coupled with being one of the unlucky "good" characters GRRM decided to make us hate as much as possible via stupid stupid actions--and I don't care how justified she felt or how logical it was from her point of view, they were stupid stupid actions that wasted time in the books, hosed up her own clan's agendas, and ended up getting people killed. It's like advertising a turkey dinner with a bitter, hard-to-like wine on the side, then finding out that the turkey itself was cooked in said wine.... and the turkey is now a zombified rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 13, 2012 21:09
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BOOK TALK: Does anyone else have a feeling that Justin Massey, Stannis' knight that's trying to get in every single woman with land's pants, is going to gently caress Stannis over and steal all his Iron Bank money? I can't tell if he's loyal and ambitious or loyal because he's ambitious.
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Jan 13, 2012 22:53
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Patchface? I wouldn't mind seeing a Patchface chapter where he meets Hodor.
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Jan 13, 2012 23:42
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Dead Man Posting posted:I wouldn't mind seeing a Patchface chapter where he meets Hodor. They are, indeed, perfect foils. Hodor is brilliant but without the words to express himself, Patchface is brain damaged but with the eloquence of one of the master poets. The juxtaposition between the two and their situations is masterful and I think adds a layer of metacontextual conceit that the series desperately needed to stand toe to toe with the postmodern mastercraftsmen of today's fantasy, Erikson and Bakker.
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Jan 13, 2012 23:53
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bigmcgaffney posted:They are, indeed, perfect foils. Hodor is brilliant but without the words to express himself, Patchface is brain damaged but with the eloquence of one of the master poets. I wish this would happen, with nary a shred of irony.
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Jan 13, 2012 23:59
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Aurubin posted:BOOK TALK: No, he is gonna hire the Second Sons who have now said "eff this" to Mereneese knots and thus bring Tyrion into the employ of Stannis. 
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Jan 14, 2012 00:40
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BOOK TALK: Justin Massey to me represents GRRM's continued interest in the nobility as a ruling class and the ownership of land and titles as a symbol of power. We have seen it again and again in the series. The Westerlings, various hedge knights, Harrenhall and Janos Slynt, and most prominently Bronn. There is a constant drive to ascend into the upper echelons of Westerosi society, a society which is mostly based on familial ties rather than deeds, which makes the few exceptions all the more poignant. Massey is another in a long line of characters that strives for what is probably unattainable for someone in his position, and we see the results of that selfish determination. GRRM uses Essos as a canvas to explore differently structured societies, ones that are often starkly opposed to Westerosi rigidity. We have seen conniving members of both the High Houses and the lesser folk, and inept members of each as well. It will be interesting going forward how GRRM tries to reconcile merit vs. lineage, especially in light of the fates of many characters of note, especially the Stark and Lannister families.
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Jan 14, 2012 01:49
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Except Bronn is a badass and should have the iron throne, except he would kick it over and demand an actually comfortable chair. Also he's metal, so his name should have an umlaut over the o.
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Jan 14, 2012 01:56
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Bronn is so going to end up in the ground before the series is through.
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Jan 14, 2012 02:04
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mind the walrus posted:Gurm is so going to end up in the ground before the series is through. Fixed that for you.
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Jan 14, 2012 02:15
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mind the walrus posted:Bronn is so going to end up in the ground before the series is through. Noooooooooooooo!  Lots of people say they'd throw the book against the wall if Arya died, but for me it's Bronn. Hearing about his little side quest from Cersei's POV was the most interesting part of A Feast for Crows for me.While it's interesting sometimes, I think GRRM too often leaves the readers out of the good scenes because a POV character isn't there. In addition to leaving us with boring scenes because a POV character IS there. Though I think in some ways the stage is set for Bronn to come back. From his last interaction with Tyrion, he names his price to fight the mountain as a big fancy Lordship, which he does not yet have (I think? He might be Lord of House Stokeworth but I think he meant Lord as in like, Lord of the Vale). And I think he was being honest and not just naming a price he knew Tyrion couldn't conjure up. So while he may be comfortable where he is, he might want more. Then we've got like an unnecessary thousand pages dedicated to mercenaries in ADWD and The Golden Company coming to Westeros and Stannis also seeking mercenaries. Then again, with everything getting so messed up everywhere Bronn probably won't care about a promotion.
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Jan 14, 2012 02:54
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I don't care what I had on my agenda, if I turned the page and saw a "BRONN" chapter I don't think I'd be able to stop reading. However, I don't think we'll see Bronn again. If we do it will be from hearing about his activity or in a non Tyrion POV chapter. I'm really not sure why, but the last conversation between Bronn and Tyrion and how they parted ways was one of my favorite moments from SoS. For me if the two ever cross paths again it would lessen the exchange.
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Jan 14, 2012 03:43
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I think it would be most satisfying if Bronn slipped out of the story having improved his own status. Many of those with power who desire more eventually lose everything, while Bronn lacks that thirst for political power (gold and other material wealth is just fine) and is content witg his improved stock. It plays into what I said above about GRRM playing with convention regarding what the nobility really means. Outside the actual story, Bronn fading into the background and not becoming a POV character would help strengthen the idea that Westeros is a living, breathing world, and that its "realness" could be argued to be on even ground as our own, in a postmodern sense of the term. ASOIAF is a snapshot of Westeros at a moment in its history, and not every loose end can be tied up. I would urge you to look at what Erikson has done with The Malazan Book of the Fallen for a better example. All too often in recent efforts GRRM is caught up in mundane storytelling tropes even as he tries to subvert them. As characters endure fake deaths, necromantic rituals, and the like, in a series that previously spat in the face of such concepts, ASOIAF is becoming more and more an obviously authorial construct. Bronn not remaining a major player yet not dying a brutal death from unnecessary hubristic action would be a step back in the right direction. Sometimes a character needs to finish their role free of dramatic forces, and who better than a bloodthirsty yet astute sellsword?
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Jan 14, 2012 04:19
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Ambiguatron posted:Except Bronn is a badass and should have the iron throne, except he would kick it over and demand an actually comfortable chair. Also he's metal, so his name should have an umlaut over the o. He should also add more o's in his name for more fancy stuff. Like Bröøóòôõnn
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Jan 14, 2012 05:04
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I dunno about Bronn, to me he seems to have become more unpleasant in recent books.
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Jan 14, 2012 12:08
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ShardPhoenix posted:I dunno about Bronn, to me he seems to have become more unpleasant in recent books. He'd just had to read A poo poo of Water, he was in a bad mood.
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Jan 14, 2012 16:52
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Anders posted:He should also add more o's in his name for more fancy stuff. Like Bröøóòôõnn Sanderson.
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Jan 14, 2012 17:16
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ShardPhoenix posted:I dunno about Bronn, to me he seems to have become more unpleasant in recent books. He named the bastard baby of a retard he married for her lands after Tyrion, simultaneously mocking him, honoring him, and pissing in the eye of the crazy bitch queen. In the game of thrones, you either win or you name your retard bastard baby after your best pal to piss off the queen.
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Jan 14, 2012 17:44
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I still do not "get" how House Mormont works. It seems to be the polar opposite of the every other house in Westeros, as the kids take the mothers name or something.
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Jan 14, 2012 17:58
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House Mormont is how GRRM copes with his mother issues.
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Jan 14, 2012 18:26
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