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redmercer posted:If Obsidian wrote the next Elder Scrolls I'd preorder. That's pretty harsh on Bethesda. They're good at what they do and what they do is create giant open world environments with lots of different dungeons and content to explore. It doesn't always make sense but they're more about the now-experience and less about the overall. I'll still buy a Bethesda FO4 at full price because it'll still be fun in its own way and also hope that the support lets them work with Obsidian again too.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:06
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm glad someone made this controversial statement. It doesn't get talked about nearly enough. CJacobs posted:Fine, then. I think Fallout 3 is a better game because it feels like a wasteland. New Vegas, being set in a desert, feels like a desert with radiation. redmercer posted:If Obsidian wrote the next Elder Scrolls I'd preorder. Roman fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 15, 2012 |
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Jan 15, 2012 22:08
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rope kid posted:You could only kill the Overseer as part of the end game resolution. If you tried to attack him in Vault 13, he would annihilate you. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jacoren#Other_interactions Yeah, he has unlimited HP and the vault defenses are absurd. But it's the only time it ever happens in that game, to its credit.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:19
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Naky posted:That's pretty harsh on Bethesda. They're good at what they do and what they do is create giant open world environments with lots of different dungeons and content to explore. It doesn't always make sense but they're more about the now-experience and less about the overall. I'll still buy a Bethesda FO4 at full price because it'll still be fun in its own way and also hope that the support lets them work with Obsidian again too. The problem is that lots of content in a big world means little when the core experience isn't compelling. Maybe some people are satisfied going through samey looking dungeons over and over again for a 100 hours killing enemies that weren't a threat 50 hours ago to kill a dude or find a trinket to complete a quest that you have no emotional investment in to get a leveled reward, but it gets old fast for most people I would wager. I mean, if the combat is shallow and not a challenge, if the writing barely sounds human, if the quests are all designed in a bog-standard go here and find/kill this fashion, then what worth does so much content really have?
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Jan 15, 2012 22:22
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Perfect Potato posted:Maybe some people are satisfied going through samey looking dungeons over and over again for a 100 hours killing enemies that weren't a threat 50 hours ago to kill a dude or find a trinket to complete a quest that you have no emotional investment in to get a leveled reward, but it gets old fast for most people I would wager. Just saying people who require a great story in their games are the minority. Most video games, including the classics, could be described as "the same bullshit over and over with a lovely story."
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Jan 15, 2012 22:33
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What? WoW has tons of story. Mind you, due to the way the game is designed a lot of it is locked out to most players unless they get in with a good raiding guild, but there's a ton of poo poo in there that is way beyond Fallout 3. Even stuff like The Barrens had a story attached to it
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Jan 15, 2012 22:43
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Pretty much. Bethesda doesn't need to invest a lot of time and resources into a great story because quite frankly their sales reflect that the average person doesn't give a poo poo. I don't buy Bethesda games for their story, I buy it for the open world and gameplay which is usually fairly solid. Not perfect, no, but solid.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:46
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Ddraig posted:What? WoW has tons of story.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:48
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I think FO3 was more fun than NV, but only as a single playthrough game. I have the same feeling for Oblivion. Great experience once, zero interest to go back. I didn't really mind the lack of pre-written story and quests. Discovery and exploration made a kind of story that I created myself while I was playing. There are merits to both ways of course, but they really are two quite different games.
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Jan 15, 2012 22:51
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Roman posted:How many people read it? I'm sure super Blizzard fans absorb every detail. But do most of the millions playing WoW see anything other than "Go kill X number of X" and close the dialog window? Depends, really. People willing to invest a lot of time into WoW generally are fans of Warcraft since the game isn't really that compelling or innovative otherwise. It's pretty much the most popular MMO out there and it's largely because it's a Warcraft MMO. I've played it quite a bit (thankfully got out before it destroyed my wallet) and the story and the lore were always the most interesting parts of the game for me, and it sucked that a lot of it wasn't really available to me because I didn't have the time to commit to the huge raids and such. But when stuff like the opening of the dark portal and such came around it was great because you actually got to be part of something that is world changing (literally) Killing 20 wolves or whatever was just a mean's to an end until I could get to do the cool stuff like exploring a ruined gnome city or the city of the dead etc.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:04
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cat with hands posted:I didn't really mind the lack of pre-written story and quests. Discovery and exploration made a kind of story that I created myself while I was playing. This is basically how I feel, and pretty much exactly why games like Skyrim are great; its the ultimate 'make your own story' game. It still doesn't trump New Vegas which might possibly be my favorite game of all time, but its easy to lose a hundred hours on.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:04
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Roman posted:Every MMO ever proves you wrong. Oh cool that's good to hear, because I really emphasized the importance of story in that post.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:10
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One thing I never got about the Fallout backstory is why the war happened with the Chinese and not the Soviets. The timeline splits from history in the '50s, when the USSR was the biggest threat. It's certainly not the biggest oddity with the story though; a lot of things with the premise seem stretched pretty far in order to accommodate gameplay needs. We're supposed to believe that technology progressed for decades while culture stayed frozen in time because they wanted a retrofuturistic '50s scifi feel, which makes sense. But the Chinese are virtually never mentioned, so I never understood what the justification was. You could argue that they simply wanted to avoid a cliche but I feel like the setting of Fallout is supposed to be cliched, with things like ray guns and giant mutant animals, etc.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:15
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Roman posted:
This is why most people(not goons) feel like FO3 was a better game. FO3's story feels like it exists as an aside to an already deep and atmospheric game environment that does a good job on it's own of telling a neat story about a nuclear holocaust and for most players it's more fun to experience the story through exploration of the game world then it is to travel across barren landscape 1 and have talking head B spit out the story in large chunks. Like Roman said he will forgive a lovely story if the game surrounding it is actually fun. This is how most people think, and for most people NV just simply wasn't as 'fun', for whatever reason (for me it was the boring, poorly designed wasteland/desert that made me feel like once I discovered all the important map markers there was no more reason to walk anywhere and might as well just fast travel all the time, which is terrible) but I stuck with it because I was genuinely engaged by the story and wanted to see how it would play out. Lastly I don't know why everyone here is so defensive about a game no one is attacking, and if FO3 is so drat terrible to you all the why continue to talk about it? Just let it rest in peace or whatever.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:15
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Someguy posted:(for me it was the boring, poorly designed wasteland/desert that made me feel like once I discovered all the important map markers there was no more reason to walk anywhere and might as well just fast travel all the time, which is terrible) You've got a bit of a point with this - FO3's Wasteland had more stuff in it than the Mojave, and the stuff going on was denser. But that's partly the result of NV's designers making a realistic recreation of the Mojave. I was in Reno a month or so ago and it was unbelievable how similar the terrain outside Reno I saw with my own two eyes was to the Mojave of NV. And take a look at the Mojave area near Vegas on Google Earth - the map of NV is nearly exactly the same as reality. I think that dedication to making a realistic world terrain-wise is to be applauded, and while I fast travel a ton once I had explore the map, the exploration process is cool because it's actually what it would be like to walk around the Mojave, looking for the next town down the highway.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:22
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gohuskies posted:You've got a bit of a point with this - FO3's Wasteland had more stuff in it than the Mojave, and the stuff going on was denser. But that's partly the result of NV's designers making a realistic recreation of the Mojave. While this may be true I'd wager that the 18-month development schedule and the smaller size of the team play a far bigger part.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:39
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I guess it's a testament to the worth of a game if the main complaint is that there's not enough of it (though OE pulled off a hell of a lot in 18 months). But there are a few other things I hope they (whoever does the next game) remedy next time around: 1) If you're going to design a big dungeon around one quest, PLEASE put an exit near where the quest ends, instead of making me find my way out of a maze. Come Fly With Me was the worst offender. 2) I tend to do one quest at a time. I get the impression most people do too. Some of the quests seemed to be designed around "just do these objectives when you get the chance" and ended up being pretty boring to play through. Return to Sender had a great payoff but to actually walk to all those places and have absolutely nothing happen to you along the way was pretty dull. It may be realistic to not get attacked every few minutes, but I would rather the game err on the side of fun. 3) This may be all OCD, but there are people who agree with me: If you're going to make a point of improving the third person camera, make sure the armor and holstered weapons aren't all obviously clipping through each other.
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Jan 15, 2012 23:44
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Finally got around to buying Lonesome Road and getting back to playing New Vegas after taking a ~5 month break from the game. Only played LR for a little bit, but it seems to be shaping up to be a great ride. Bonus shot of the physics engine bugging out after critting a marked man scout in the head: Oh New Vegas, even your glitches are the best  .
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Jan 16, 2012 00:05
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I just found out about Ulysses stalking you in Lonesome Road. 
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Jan 16, 2012 00:06
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Someguy posted:Like Roman said he will forgive a lovely story if the game surrounding it is actually fun. This is how most people think, and for most people NV just simply wasn't as 'fun', for whatever reason (for me it was the boring, poorly designed wasteland/desert that made me feel like once I discovered all the important map markers there was no more reason to walk anywhere and might as well just fast travel all the time, which is terrible) but I stuck with it because I was genuinely engaged by the story and wanted to see how it would play out. There are also a fair amount of quests that amount to little more than walking back and forth talking to characters with little to engage the player in between. Freeside is full of these quests, and if you're trying to complete all of the quests in that area before moving on you end up spending a lot of time without a lot of action. The pacing in Fallout 3 is generally better from a pure game play perspective.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:06
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Roman posted:2) I tend to do one quest at a time. I get the impression most people do too. Some of the quests seemed to be designed around "just do these objectives when you get the chance" and ended up being pretty boring to play through. Return to Sender had a great payoff but to actually walk to all those places and have absolutely nothing happen to you along the way was pretty dull. It may be realistic to not get attacked every few minutes, but I would rather the game err on the side of fun. Still in the Dark was pretty bad. IIRC, you had to go to Repconn HQ, Nellis, NCR Correctional Facility, Nipton, Camp Forlorn Hope, Vault 22, Vault 3, Vault 11, and Black Mountain to complete that quest, and your only reward is power armor training and the option to ally the Brotherhood with the NCR. You can get power armor training from Arcade's quest much easier, and your reputation with the NCR actually decreases a little.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:16
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Red Ryder posted:One thing I never got about the Fallout backstory is why the war happened with the Chinese and not the Soviets. The timeline splits from history in the '50s, when the USSR was the biggest threat. It's certainly not the biggest oddity with the story though; a lot of things with the premise seem stretched pretty far in order to accommodate gameplay needs. We're supposed to believe that technology progressed for decades while culture stayed frozen in time because they wanted a retrofuturistic '50s scifi feel, which makes sense. But the Chinese are virtually never mentioned, so I never understood what the justification was. You could argue that they simply wanted to avoid a cliche but I feel like the setting of Fallout is supposed to be cliched, with things like ray guns and giant mutant animals, etc. I think it's because coming off of World War 2 China was seen as a pretty big threat. The Soviets, while heavily distrusted, got a pass for a while because they were our allies in World War 2. China wasn't really, they were just "against" Japan rather than "With" us. At the time we were hoping Nationalist China would win and it was becoming clear that they were not, and Mao was going to win. That was scary because it was the first case of Communism "fighting" democracy and winning in that era. Soviet hatred started to boil in the later 50s-60s because they were pulling ahead in the sciences, e.g. the space race.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:24
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New Vegas is kinda being stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of its design. It would seem there was a pretty conscious effort at OEI to make New Vegas more of a classic Fallout game, which clashes a bit with the Elder Scrolls feel of Fallout 3. It's like... I don't want loving dungeons in my Fallouts. Whenever I hear Fallout, I don't go "gently caress yeah, let's go dungeon crawling!" It's all about how I can affect the game-world. I mean, fine, Vaults and such can be considered dungeons in the old games, as well as the odd cave (the "dungeons" in Fallout 2 sucked royally by the way). But if you're stuck with the open-world formula, then you have to stick them in there to fill up the world. Whereas the old Fallouts could concentrate their content a bit more due to the world map system. New Vegas is sorta in between here in terms of design. Bethesda's game have one glaring fault for me personally when it comes to RPGs. If you look at the worlds, you often see something beautifully crafted (though Fallout 3s world was stupid, I'm sorry. Atmspheric, but stupid). Something that seems to speak of freedom, and making your own path through the world. But as soon as you start... poking at the world, trying to enforce your character in them, try something really exciting that isn't just dungeon crawling, then you see instantly how the worlds completely fail to respond back to the player. I can "make my own path", sure, but since noone/nothing in the game gives a gently caress, it's meaningless. It's like having a DM that lets you do whatever and get away with it. A lot of people disagree but that makes the roleplaying completely meaningless for me.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:27
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Sam. posted:Still in the Dark was pretty bad. IIRC, you had to go to Repconn HQ, Nellis, NCR Correctional Facility, Nipton, Camp Forlorn Hope, Vault 22, Vault 3, Vault 11, and Black Mountain to complete that quest, and your only reward is power armor training and the option to ally the Brotherhood with the NCR. You can get power armor training from Arcade's quest much easier, and your reputation with the NCR actually decreases a little. I think Still in the Dark is a good example of the right way to do these sorts of quests. It's an excuse to send you to points of interest you might otherwise miss. I think this is the only quest that points you toward Vault 11. The shittiest quest in the game is probably Young Hearts. You ping pong between Nellis Crimson Caravan five or six times and nothing of interest ever happens. Actually, any quest related to the Boomers is pretty dull. I did Volare on my first play through, but every other time I slaughter the whole drat faction.
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Jan 16, 2012 00:30
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I decided to replay fallout 3, but it crashes to desktop a few seconds after I hit 'new game'. It starts loading, but then it crashes. This isn't the computer I played it on before (and it's a pretty bad computer), but I can run new vegas perfectly fine on low settings. Any idea what's causing it? e: running windows 7 fronz fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 00:37
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J-Spot posted:I think Still in the Dark is a good example of the right way to do these sorts of quests. It's an excuse to send you to points of interest you might otherwise miss. I think this is the only quest that points you toward Vault 11. Young Hearts does give you a couple of fantastic opportunities to be a real rear end in a top hat, though.
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Jan 16, 2012 01:08
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J-Spot posted:I think Still in the Dark is a good example of the right way to do these sorts of quests. It's an excuse to send you to points of interest you might otherwise miss. I think this is the only quest that points you toward Vault 11. How can you slaughter the Boomers? The B-29 flying over the Dam is possibly one of the most iconic moments of New Vegas.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:11
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Someguy posted:
You probably didn't discover them all then: 
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Jan 16, 2012 02:26
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My only real problem with traversing the wasteland is how agonizingly slowly you walk. I play some Tribes and then play FO:NV where I'm taking a relaxed jog and I can't stand it.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:28
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Hopefully Fallout 4 explains how the Iguana invasion came about and where they went off to.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:34
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The Boomers base is just a huge metal shed full of meatbags that I use to equip myself with enough missiles and grenades to destroy every living thing in the wasteland.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:34
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Leinadi posted:It's like... I don't want loving dungeons in my Fallouts. Whenever I hear Fallout, I don't go "gently caress yeah, let's go dungeon crawling!" It's all about how I can affect the game-world. VocalizePlayerDeath posted:Hopefully Fallout 4 explains how the Iguana invasion came about and where they went off to. This guy has the answers: http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13537 Roman fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 16, 2012 |
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Jan 16, 2012 02:36
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Evoq posted:Im pretty sure. I specifically remember you bringing it up a few times before, it might have been in the mod thread or the old thread. nope, you might want to check your eyes.
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Jan 16, 2012 02:50
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:*checks own post history* Well either way, my point stands 
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Jan 16, 2012 03:10
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cat with hands posted:Is there a way to reset a DLC area after you complete it without starting a new game? Uncheck the DLC files you want to restart. Load your save game. Save your game. Exit the game. Recheck the DLC. Then, it should be like you never started it at all.
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Jan 16, 2012 03:26
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So, looks like the only Achievements I have left are some Honest Hearts ones, and "Pick 50 pockets," "Heal 10,000 points of life with food" and "Play Caravan 30 times." Woof, all the time-consuming ones....
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Jan 16, 2012 03:33
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Speedball posted:So, looks like the only Achievements I have left are some Honest Hearts ones, and "Pick 50 pockets," "Heal 10,000 points of life with food" and "Play Caravan 30 times." Woof, all the time-consuming ones.... You can blast through pickpocketing by just popping a stealth boy in Nellis AFB cafeteria and the casinos since there are loads of people just waiting to have their poo poo stolen.
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Jan 16, 2012 03:44
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Haha. Geckos have an eye-licking idle animation. I never would have seen that if I didn't have Animal Friend. That's great.
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Jan 16, 2012 04:05
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RagnarokAngel posted:I think it's because coming off of World War 2 China was seen as a pretty big threat. The Soviets, while heavily distrusted, got a pass for a while because they were our allies in World War 2. China wasn't really, they were just "against" Japan rather than "With" us. At the time we were hoping Nationalist China would win and it was becoming clear that they were not, and Mao was going to win. That was scary because it was the first case of Communism "fighting" democracy and winning in that era. Everything Fallout references and parodies is anti-Soviet paranoia. All that talk of communism is language used to drum up fear and hatred towards the Soviet union. And the Soviets were seen as enemies immediately- The allied good will barely lasted through the war. The real reason China is the enemy in Fallout seems to me to be that at one point the story was imagined to be a more serious look at nuclear war, and not so much a silly parody of the 50s. In a serious story written after the fall of the USSR, you can't have the Soviets as the enemy anymore. I kind of get the impression that power armor is another holdover from this initially more serious (if not more realistic) premise. Fallout style power armor is not exactly something from the 50's World of Tomorrow. It's a much more modern World of Tomorrow idea that seems to have been put in Fallout not as a joke or a reference, but because it was cool. I may be totally wrong, but as far as I can tell the Chinese are the enemy because it would be silly and unrealistic to have the Soviets as the enemy after their fall, and even though eventually the setting became so silly that something like that would fit, we're stuck with the less silly premise.
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Jan 16, 2012 04:47
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computer parts posted:You probably didn't discover them all then: Nope, discovered every location. Fact is most of them are simply throw away map markers usually small shacks full of tin cans and a bed. Certainly nothing worth visiting twice.
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Jan 16, 2012 04:51
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