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Some days I want to go talk about actual socialist ideas with some of these people, just to see if their heads explode when their minds are blown.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 04:59 |
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 11:10 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:To contribute, here's an old one from notorious moron and piece of poo poo Dinesh D'Souza that I only recently encountered from a different lovely editorial that cited D'Souza's editorial as a source for historical facts. Just replace Atheism with Communism and youve gotten a new totally original argument! World War Two, started, perpetuated and carried out by mostly Christians, and yet communism (1 goverment) and Atheism (1 % of population?) get the blame. Wow, world war two was like a godsend to christians. They do all the killing and people who have little to nothing to do with it get blamed, therefore at the same time excusing christians commiting genocide and destroying atheism AND communism as ideas worth pursuing. Brilliant !
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 05:34 |
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Pope Guilty posted:Some days I want to go talk about actual socialist ideas with some of these people, just to see if their heads explode when their minds are blown. That's the funny thing about "socialism" for conservatives, they really don't know what it means, it's just a general pejorative for them. It becomes a surrealist parody when you've got elderly people obviously on Medicare and Social Security bitching about Obama being a socialist and railing against healthcare reform making the nation socialist. There was a funny part of the Freep thread a long while back where there were pictures and articles about Tea Party protests where elderly people were attending rallies in their mobility scooters that had been paid for by Medicaid. The level of irony was so palpable that I started to think it was some kind of orchestrated parody by comedians or performance artists. Amalek posted:Just replace Atheism with Communism and youve gotten a new totally original argument! Yeah, but communist regimes have been pretty terrible, too. Just think of all the people killed by Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Those guys killed millions of people using the justification that the deaths were excusable (if not necessary) to advance communism and protect the state and proletariat from bourgeois attempts to undermine them and stomp on the average Joe communist. In those cases, communism is a pretty apt analogue to religion in the various cases of mass violence justified/motivated by individual faiths. Atheism really stands on its own as a unique entity as there really hasn't been much (if any) in the way of violence (of any kind) "caused" by atheism, though it's likely because atheism is kind of inherently disorganized and without really any fervent beliefs. poo poo, there has been more violence perpetuated in the name of anarchism than atheism, which should tell you a lot. What really gets me about that particular editorial by D'Souza is that there is some truth to it in that many violent episodes are more nuanced and complex than simply "religion did it," but he's purposely leaving religion out of the mix when the religion involved is Christianity and hypocritically oversimplifying cases where he thinks atheism is involved. So, when it comes to Stalin killing millions of people, that's totally a crime of atheism and not the mix of communist authoritarianism and suppression of dissent combined with the paranoia and megalomania that come from a cult of personality. It's not that Mao and Stalin were crazy motherfuckers who were paranoid that their respective nations contained people who might be just like them and want the same power and control, causing them to persecute and kill large groups of people who dissented from their personal whims and ideologies. No, it must have been that they were supposedly atheists, that's what caused them to be tyrants.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 12:38 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:That's the funny thing about "socialism" for conservatives, they really don't know what it means, it's just a general pejorative for them. Look I'm almost on your side (in that I hope D'Souza dies soon), but you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people. Millions of Nazis, yes, and also a lot of people died from a famine, but why blame a leader for a natural disaster? Seriously, that's like saying President Bush killed people thousands of people by making Hurricane Katrina happen.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 13:50 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:Look I'm almost on your side (in that I hope D'Souza dies soon), but you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people. Millions of Nazis, yes, and also a lot of people died from a famine, but why blame a leader for a natural disaster? Seriously, that's like saying President Bush killed people thousands of people by making Hurricane Katrina happen. A lot of the blame for the famine comes from stupid, unscientific ideas about agriculture stemming from Stalin's embrace of Trofim Lysenko, whose inane ideas flattered the Communist leadership's ideals and who derided Darwin and Mendel as "uncommunist". (See also Nazi Germany's rejection of "Jewish science", not that I'm saying Nazi Germany and the USSR are alike.) Myself, I'm always fascinated by how the millions of people who die early deaths from lovely working conditions and low pay aren't counted as having been murdered by capitalism.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 14:04 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:Look I'm almost on your side (in that I hope D'Souza dies soon), but you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people. Millions of Nazis, yes, and also a lot of people died from a famine, but why blame a leader for a natural disaster? Seriously, that's like saying President Bush killed people thousands of people by making Hurricane Katrina happen. The famine under Stalin was the result of policy, not nature. Please take some time to read up on Stalin,, the man was a mass murderer.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 14:07 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:That's the funny thing about "socialism" for conservatives, they really don't know what it means, it's just a general pejorative for them. It's not hard to understand the confusion. That word has meant a lot of things in the mainstream public consciousness, even over just the last few decades. 40 years ago, both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. called the Soviet Union a socialist country. Nowadays, the more common usage refers to mild social democracies like Norway, and sometimes even France and England. And then you have the libertarians who think that making people pay any taxes at all automatically equates to socialism. Which makes it all one big mess in the mind of someone not inclined to educate themselves with what amounts to some pretty dry reading when you live on a diet of attention-grabbing television. And of course the media isn't interested in clearing up the confusion, only adding to it. A propagandist who can link any kind of progressive social policy with Joseph Stalin in the minds of his audience is never going to give up that golden goose.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 15:09 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:but you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people. Millions of Nazis, yes, Nazis are people, my friend. In all seriousness though, you just literally dehumanized millions of war victims (hopefully you see the supreme irony in dehumanizing people for being Nazis). And you did this in defense of Joseph Stalin.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 21:35 |
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IIRC, weren't millions of people also killed during Stalin's Great Purges? I think those started well before the war, though.
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# ? Jan 17, 2012 22:51 |
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King Dopplepopolos posted:IIRC, weren't millions of people also killed during Stalin's Great Purges? I think those started well before the war, though. Yes. He starved half of Ukraine to death as a matter of policy.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 00:10 |
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King Dopplepopolos posted:IIRC, weren't millions of people also killed during Stalin's Great Purges? I think those started well before the war, though. Purges are necessary as part of the great work. I didn't really want to get into this, but how is one supposed to lead the common man to enlightenment when reactionaries full of greed and lust for the status quo are equipped to fight progress? As for the policy argument, can anyone show me a primary source stating that the famine was intentional? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 04:36 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:Purges are necessary as part of the great work. I didn't really want to get into this, but how is one supposed to lead the common man to enlightenment when reactionaries full of greed and lust for the status quo are equipped to fight progress? Are you loving kidding me? The Soviet purges were "necessary?" No, the purges were not about preventing reactionaries and capitalists from conspiring to undermine communism and abuse the proletariat, they were intended to eliminate all dissent, even from other communists. poo poo, Stalin would literally rewrite history by having dissenters eliminated from books, photos, and paintings after he killed them or sent them to gulags. Shortly before he died, Stalin was planning another purge of educated Jews (doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.) because he was convinced that they were conspiring against him and the USSR, especially since several of his doctors overseeing him in his deteriorating health were Jewish. Communist purges are not about protecting communism, the proletariat, and/or the state, they are intended to stifle dissent of all kinds that criticize the party oligarchy and to deflect criticism upon the dissenters so that the oligarchy can redirect all public criticism and unrest which threatens their strangleholds on their nations. As for the Holodomor, it was certainly not due to natural causes but there is some debate among historians about the malevolence behind it, comparable to the debate over the Holocaust about intentionalism vs. functionalism. At the very least, the Holodomor was a result of incredibly poor management that raises all those millions of Ukrainian deaths to the level of criminally negligent homicide, especially since the Soviets prevented the starving Ukrainians from fleeing the country during the famine and severely punished them when they were unable to live up to the plans and demands of the Soviet government. Brown Blitzkrieg posted:Look I'm almost on your side (in that I hope D'Souza dies soon), but you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people. Millions of Nazis, yes, and also a lot of people died from a famine, but why blame a leader for a natural disaster? Seriously, that's like saying President Bush killed people thousands of people by making Hurricane Katrina happen. So, Nazis, Nazi collaborators, and basically anyone who lived in a country formerly occupied by Nazis were not people? You're either a terrible troll or a terrible, ignorant person.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 05:02 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:Are you loving kidding me? The Soviet purges were "necessary?" I find your complete lack of evidence for your assertions rather telling.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 05:18 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:I find your complete lack of evidence for your assertions rather telling. By the same token, support your assertions that "you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people" and that the Holodomor was a "natural disaster."
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 05:23 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:By the same token, support your assertions that "you can hardly say Stalin killed millions of people" and that the Holodomor was a "natural disaster." The facts that are known: people died from a famine. Famines happen, it's a natural disaster when famines happen - due to crop failure, bad harvests, etc. Anything more than that is merely speculation.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 05:31 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:The facts that are known: people died from a famine. Famines happen, it's a natural disaster when famines happen - due to crop failure, bad harvests, etc. Anything more than that is merely speculation. You are aware that famines often happen for reasons other than weather, right? E.g. famine in Darfur caused by the conflict there and famine in Zimbabwe caused by Mugabe's land "reforms." So, just noting that a famine happened doesn't imply that the famine was caused by natural forces like adverse weather.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 05:56 |
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Oh goody, a literal Stalinist itt.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 06:20 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:You are aware that famines often happen for reasons other than weather, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor#Natural_reasons posted:... Western historian Dr. Mark Tauger, who concluded that the famine was not fundamentally "man-made".[77][78] He says that rustic plant disease, rather than drought, was the cause of the famine. The most that can be said of the contribution of human actions is that draft shortages, lack of labor, systemic economic problems, mismanagement, and peasant resistance exacerbated the crop failures already created by natural disasters.[24] quote:Another factor in the decline of the harvests was that the shortage of draft power for plowing and reaping was even more acute in 1932 than in the previous year. The number of working horses declined from 19.5 million on July 1, 1931 to 16.2 million on July 1, 1932. The efforts to replace horses by tractors failed to compensate for this loss. In 1931, the total supply of tractors for agriculture amounted to 578,000 hp (431 MW), with 393,000 hp (293 MW) produced at home and 578,000 hp (431 MW) imported. But in 1932, because of the foreign trade crisis and home producing establishing, no tractors were imported.[83] In the whole of 1932, tractors supplied 679,000 hp (506 MW) to agriculture, considerably less than in 1931. Only about half became available in time for the harvest, and even less in time for the spring sowing. Animal draft power deteriorated in quality. Horses were fed and maintained even more inadequately than in the previous year.[83] The acute shortage of horses led to the decision to employ cows as working animals. According to the speech of one Soviet official at one of the most affected by famine region, the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, "in 1932 we employ only 9000 cows, but in 1933 we involve at least 3/4 of their total number; 57000 employed at sowing."[84] On February 23, the Lower Volga party bureau decided to use 200,000 cows for special field work. So it would appear as though, rather than trying to exacerbate the famine, the authorities were actually trying to avert poor harvests at all measures? Wow, what murderous bastards! BlitzkriegOfColour fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jan 18, 2012 |
# ? Jan 18, 2012 06:21 |
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Brown Blitzkrieg posted:So it would appear as though, rather than trying to exacerbate the famine, the authorities were actually trying to avert poor harvests at all measures? Wow, what murderous bastards! Ooh, ooh, I can selectively quote wikipedia, too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor wikipedia posted:Deliberately engineered or Continuation of civil war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor wikipedia posted:Causes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#Genocide_question wikipedia posted:Dr. Michael Ellman of the University of Amsterdam argues that, in addition to deportations, internment in the Gulag and shootings (See: Law of Spikelets), there is some evidence that Stalin used starvation as a weapon in his war against the peasantry.[85] He analyses the actions of the Soviet authorities, two of commission and one of omission: (i) exporting 1.8 million tonnes of grain during the mass starvation (enough to feed more than five million people for one year), (ii) preventing migration from famine afflicted areas (which may have cost an estimated 150,000 lives) and (iii) making no effort to secure grain assistance from abroad (which caused an estimated 1.5 million excess deaths), as well as the attitude of the Stalinist regime in 1932–33 (that many of those starving to death were "counterrevolutionaries", "idlers" or "thieves" who fully deserved their fate). Based on this analysis he concludes, however, that the actions of Stalin's authorities against Ukrainians do not meet the standards of specific intent required to proof genocide as defined by the UN convention (the notable exception is the case of Kuban Ukrainians).[86] Ellman further concluded that if the relaxed definition of genocide is used, the actions of Stalin's authorities do fit such a definition of genocide.[86] However, this more relaxed definition of genocide makes the latter the common historical event, according to Ellman.[86] wikipedia posted:West Virginia University professor Dr Mark Tauger claims that any analysis that asserts that the harvests of 1931 and 1932 were not extraordinarily low and that the famine was a political measure intentionally imposed through excessive procurements is based on an insufficient source base and an uncritical approach to the official sources.[91] Other scholars, such as Dr. David Marples, professor of history at the University of Alberta, have been critical of Tauger's claims.[94] Wheatcroft states Tauger's view represents the opposite extreme in arguing the famine was totally accidental.[95]
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 08:29 |
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How did you manage to pull quotes off Wikipedia two hours after they shut down their site for SOPA?
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 10:35 |
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Shasta Orange Soda posted:How did you manage to pull quotes off Wikipedia two hours after they shut down their site for SOPA? Pfft, wouldn't you like to know, muggle? Google cache
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 10:48 |
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Bruce Leroy posted:Pfft, wouldn't you like to know, muggle? Or mobile internet, or just turn off automatic redirect/javascript
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 10:51 |
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Amarkov posted:Or mobile internet, or just turn off automatic redirect/javascript You can even just load the page and then hit the stop button before it redirects you to the black screen.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 15:51 |
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Jack of Hearts posted:Oh goody, a literal Stalinist itt. Perhaps he's an LF refugee or a McCaine alt.
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# ? Jan 18, 2012 16:17 |
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e: Here's a good one. quote:JUDGE NOT
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# ? Jan 21, 2012 20:59 |
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War is hell, man, we'll never know... *pisses on a corpse while his buddies laugh him on*
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# ? Jan 21, 2012 21:06 |
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Glitterbomber posted:War is hell, man, we'll never know... I'd actually understand what they did more if it had been on living people. It still would have been disgusting and idiotic and wrong, but it makes sense in the, "Haha, we're doing something to you that you don't like," way. But they're dead. There's not much better way of getting over on someone than killing them. You won dude, we get it. "You know, I thought you punked me when you shot me in the head, but it wasn't until you pissed on me that I said, 'Touche'. Well played chaps."
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# ? Jan 21, 2012 23:32 |
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Well both are foul and despicable, but yea at least some freak pissing on a PoW can be all "I WAS GETTIN REVENGE! WAR IS HELL!", I don't even know how you defend corpse desecration, but the right found a way.
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# ? Jan 21, 2012 23:39 |
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The Corpus Christi Caller Times is a cesspool of terrible writing, but the letters to the editor really take the cake. Sometimes, it's hard to believe people sign their names to these. http://www.caller.com/news/2012/jan/20/letters-to-the-editor-012012/ Frank Taylor Poor argument against sonograms Re: Caller-Times' editorial on Jan. 12 opposing required sonograms before abortions. I guess I didn't get the memo appointing you guardian of the women of Texas. For your information, the women of Texas make up a majority of registered voters in the state and no legislator, governor or attorney general can hold office against their will. If the state leaders you denigrate are displeasing to women, they hardly need any help from you to do something about them. The people of Texas, male and female, have a right to make laws governing abortion in this state. Their elected representatives, male and female, have the right and the duty to enact laws that reflect the will of their constituents and not that of self-righteous newspaper editors. You, evidently, would like to overturn the democratically expressed will of the people with the usual liberal artifice of legislation from the bench. As for the case you make against required sonograms, it is laughable. If the women required to take the sonograms are so well-informed, why are they pregnant with an unwanted child in the first place? You make much of the inconvenience of sonograms to pregnant women. Apparently, the gruesome deaths inflicted on the babies they are carrying don't bother you at all. Nor does the well documented post-abortion emotional distress and guilt suffered by many of the women you purport to speak for. With guardians like you, who needs enemies? Emphasis mine.
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 01:22 |
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PainBreak posted:Frank Taylor
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 05:29 |
quote:Leonard Pitts wrong; ‘three strikes’ laws keeping blacks in jail
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 05:47 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/14/america-is-drunk/?intcmp=obinsiteFox News posted:
You've heard it here first, folks. Americans love the sauce because of Muslims and illegal immigrants. Also, alcoholics/addicts cannot be creative. Hemingway, Poe, Hendrix, Cobain, Jackson Pollock, Michael Jackson... none of these people ever summoned extraordinary creativity from deep inside themselves.
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 19:10 |
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Well, it makes sense. All those Muhammadins and Catholic Mexicans are allergic to alcohol. It is the only defense us True Patriots have against their God Hating evils.
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 20:16 |
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jetgrindeggy posted:http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/14/america-is-drunk/?intcmp=obinsite You copied all those words and missed the best ones: quote:Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team. Dr. Ablow can be reached at info@keithablow.com. His team of Life Coaches can be reached at lifecoach@keithablow.com. If you drink or take drugs you can't think for yourself! So take some responsibility and hire one of my life coaches!
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 21:49 |
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*beep*Go check your mail! I wanna see some hustle down to the post office!
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 21:50 |
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Just got offa work, thinking about having a cold one *phone rings* *beeeep* YOU WERE THINKING OF HAVING A BEER, WEREN'T YOU? I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO WORK MORE ON YOUR POETRY. I WANT TO SEE THIRTY LINES, IAMBIC, ON THE DOUBLE! DON'T THINK ABOUT EASING THE PAIN!
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 21:53 |
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This is the same Dr Ablow who thinks that Newt's multiple infidelities just show how likable he is, right?
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 22:16 |
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These are from the New York Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/fracking-lies-triumphed-article-1.1009485 Fracking apparently is a good thing regardless of the evidence http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/sopa-people-article-1.1009499 SOPA and PIPA are also good things. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/yes-bloomberg-bonus-article-1.1009287 Teacher agrees, yeah gently caress teachers Im so disappointed in the Daily News I remember when the didn't use to be terrible
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 22:52 |
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redmercer posted:Just got offa work, thinking about having a cold one *phone rings* *beeeep* YOU WERE THINKING OF HAVING A BEER, WEREN'T YOU? I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO WORK MORE ON YOUR POETRY. I WANT TO SEE THIRTY LINES, IAMBIC, ON THE DOUBLE! DON'T THINK ABOUT EASING THE PAIN! Sounds like a job for a lambic.
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# ? Jan 22, 2012 22:58 |
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# ? Apr 19, 2024 11:10 |
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Limbo posted:This is the same Dr Ablow who thinks that Newt's multiple infidelities just show how likable he is, right? For those who are curious about what Limbo is speaking of: Fox News posted:Newt Gingrich's three marriages mean he might make a strong president -- really My favorite part is how he think that Gingrich's kids siding with him and against his second wife has to do with how much they love and approve of him rather than them hating the woman who broke up their parents' marriage. The fact that Ablow can't see/admit what a classic narcissist (and possible sociopath) Gingrich is shows just how terrible a psychiatrist he is.
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# ? Jan 23, 2012 02:30 |