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Chexoid posted:So how did Muay Thai end up in Brazil anyway. It's from Thailand, right? Why do basically all Brazillian fighters seem to specialize in it? How it got to Brazil is usually attributed from memory to a guy called Nelio Borges. If I remember rightly it was during the 70s and he was actually trained by a Korean who had travelled to Thailand to Thai box using Taekwondo and ended up training in the style. For that reason I guess is why the Thai boxing we see in Brazil is a little differently influenced, as is most Muay Thai outside of thailand that is to say, there's a difference in how Australians perform Muay Thai to traditional Thai boxers and different again to the dutch style. (I've seen all three live in person even did a bit of training in Phuket. I guess it got incorporated more into Brazillian Martial arts with the rise of Vale Tudo competitions where I'm guessing their more traditional art, Caepoeira was less effective against guys who were training Karate because of the Japanese population in Brazil. This is just speculation though, so take from that what you will. There's not a lot of concrete lineage online. Though it should be noted that the most famous gym for which the Brazillian MT is known, Chute Boxe was founded by Rudimar Fedrigo almost exclusively in the beginning as a MT gym. His lineage might help to point you in the right direction, anything else I don't really know.
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Jan 25, 2012 11:46
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I have a dumb fight terminology question-- I see the term "arm punch" used a little bit. It seems to be a disparaging term. I am guessing it is like the difference between throwing a ball with just your arm or throwing with proper rotation of shoulders, hips and shifting weight and so forth. Is that about right?
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Jan 30, 2012 18:57
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The Sphinxster posted:I have a dumb fight terminology question-- I see the term "arm punch" used a little bit. It seems to be a disparaging term. Yeah
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Jan 30, 2012 18:58
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The Sphinxster posted:I have a dumb fight terminology question-- I see the term "arm punch" used a little bit. It seems to be a disparaging term. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_wnt84iyMk&t=303s Gotta put your rear end into it
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Jan 30, 2012 19:27
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Thank you! That's really pretty good howling. I wonder if he practiced from a tape.
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Jan 31, 2012 01:58
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Any documentaries or perhaps books that could explain the history and evolution of martial arts throughout the world or perhaps throughout Asia or something? Any good martial arts documentaries period?
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Feb 4, 2012 03:45
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heeebrew posted:Any documentaries or perhaps books that could explain the history and evolution of martial arts throughout the world or perhaps throughout Asia or something? Any good martial arts documentaries period? For more current stuff there's a documentary about Anderson Silva called Like Water which has been well reviewed but as far as I know hasn't been distributed so it would be hard to find. There's a documentary about Jon Fitch called Such Great Heights but I'm also not sure if that one can be easily found either. I haven' seen Jens Pulver's documentary but if it's anything like Jens Pulver it's probably horribly depressing. I'd be curious if anyone else has suggestions on books. I've read Matt Hughes's autobiography (Made In America) and while it's interesting as a portrait of sociopathy I don't know if I'd recommend it as a book. I've also read Forrest Griffin's book (Got Fight) which is funny but doesn't really tell you that much about MMA.
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Feb 4, 2012 07:33
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The Smashing Machine is wonderful as is Driven, but they don't really document the evolution of the sport if that's what you're looking for. They're both snapshots of the fighters and the sport at that moment. Driven has a bit more history in it, what with Jens' career spanning longer in relevancy than Kerr's did, but neither are a commentary of the sport necessarily. Choke is a complete puff piece on Rickson when it should be about Yuki Nakai and his goddamn heroic run.
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Feb 4, 2012 07:44
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Driven is on Netflix instant, if I'm not mistaken. Human Weapon and Fight Quest used to be on instant, but not anymore. They were both TV shows that got into the history and modern usage of various martial arts like silat, sambo, kendo, judo, muay thai, etc., albeit in kind of a corny format. When We Were Kings is an Oscar-winning documentary on Ali's training leading up to the "Rumble in the Jungle," also on instant. There's also AKA Cassius Clay. Beyond the Mat should also be required viewing for any fan of sweaty men hugging each other.
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Feb 4, 2012 16:28
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Grifter posted:For more current stuff there's a documentary about Anderson Silva called Like Water which has been well reviewed but as far as I know hasn't been distributed so it would be hard to find. For what it's worth, Like Water did get picked up last month and is scheduled to be released sometime this year but it sounds like it will be a limited release or Video On Demand or something.
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Feb 4, 2012 17:24
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Takedowns and Falls is on Netflix. It's an okay documentary about a high school wrestling team in Pennsylvania.
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Feb 4, 2012 18:49
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If you can find a copy of PRIDE Fighting Decade, that's a pretty good watch.
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Feb 5, 2012 03:23
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I'd be surprised if there was more than a handful of well-researched history books on the evolution of empty-handed combat. It's a real shame.
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Feb 5, 2012 04:13
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jeffersonlives posted:If you can find a copy of PRIDE Fighting Decade, that's a pretty good watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFQ0V8TcyvY
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Feb 5, 2012 07:51
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jeffersonlives posted:If you can find a copy of PRIDE Fighting Decade, that's a pretty good watch. Definitely worth watching but take everything with a grain of salt.
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Feb 6, 2012 21:08
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Hey, for like 3 years I've been trying to start making a (not super-serious and lame) MMAth program that takes statistics such as submission %/#, ko %/#, decisions, etc. and builds a profile for each fighter. I may/may not use this as a Comp Sci project at some point. Anyway, I'm wondering if I would possibly have enough people to fill a thread for a bit. I mean, even if you're not willing to help out with the original algorithm design, database design (probably a single text file will do for this, but I'm open to ideas), or program functionality, I'm sure you can argue with people about facets of the program. Since it's pretty general I figured I'd throw it in here.
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Feb 8, 2012 17:53
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Save Russian Jews posted:Hey, for like 3 years I've been trying to start making a (not super-serious and lame) MMAth program that takes statistics such as submission %/#, ko %/#, decisions, etc. and builds a profile for each fighter. I may/may not use this as a Comp Sci project at some point. I'd contribute to your thread. I've actually been wanting to do something very similar for a while now, possibly involving making a program to crawl sherdog or wikipedia to gather data.
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Feb 8, 2012 18:26
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moww posted:I'd contribute to your thread. I've actually been wanting to do something very similar for a while now, possibly involving making a program to crawl sherdog or wikipedia to gather data. I was thinking it could just be a general MMAth thread, like a repository for crazy stat-poo poo (I'd honestly love to have whatever access dokmo has to fight info) and those sometimes-cool, sometimes-not who-beat-who flowcharts. I guess I could just throw a post in after the OP that contains vital info to the program/database and keep the thread dedicated to stats and such, or I could just make a thread for the program creation and design.
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Feb 8, 2012 18:32
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Save Russian Jews posted:Hey, for like 3 years I've been trying to start making a (not super-serious and lame) MMAth program that takes statistics such as submission %/#, ko %/#, decisions, etc. and builds a profile for each fighter. I may/may not use this as a Comp Sci project at some point. Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure how many people here know anything about programming (I sure don't). You'd be better off help-wise posting it in that coding subforum
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Feb 8, 2012 18:34
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To get off the ground you'd just need some kind of sql(or whatever) DB and a front end to display whatever stat or algorithm you want. You could have that up in an afternoon if you used something like Joomla (I used that in school 2 years ago no idea if its still "a thing") where it pretty much sets itself up and there are a ton of prebuilt modules you can pluggin. The tricky part is raw data: unless there is some way to hook up to sherdog's DB (or Fatherdog's brain)you're stuck with manual updates and lovely time consuming processes to get actual fight data in there. Unless you're like able to build screen scrapers or some other clever way to get the data from a website front end, but if you can do that, then you're past anything I just talked about in this post. I am not good at any of this and there are a million ways to do what you're describing with varying levels of quality and complexity.
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Feb 8, 2012 18:44
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I guess I wasn't clear, but I know Java/C# and am almost done with a CS degree-- the issue is that, without some sort of web scraper, like Xguard said, almost all of the data will have to be entered by hand (well, that and we will never fully agree on algorithms, but the fact that dozens of people can potentially argue about and have input on the algorithm will put it at a very high level). However, I can autonomate a lot of the tedium from the input/editing of the database with a gui for adding, modifying, and displaying entries in the DB file (which can probably just be a delimited .txt file). If we have a set amount of people working correctly with such a program, entering x people's records into the program, I can then combine the files they create (I vaguely remember a text program that lets you merge files like this) and work it out. It'd probably be best to start with something small and visibly discrete like the UFC HW division before we move onto some all-encompassing score-jizzer for the entirety of MMA.
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Feb 8, 2012 18:56
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Oh okay. you're probably better off going to one of those outsource data entry sites and paying someone to crawl through fight finder or something and input your data. Goons are awful people that at the very least will give you incorrect data. Taking ideas from people on what they'd like to see as far as advanced metrics would actually be pretty cool because no one really does that for MMA outside of the UFC's private data. I know a guy put a really cool post in the gambling thread with some findings on who wins most in what scenarios.
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Feb 8, 2012 20:55
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If you're doing this as a hobby/project that's cool, but if you're committed enough to spend money on data entry you might as well just buy a subscription to fightmetric's statistics database since they do the official stats for the UFC. They also have an api you can subscribe to if you want to throw up their stats on your web page without too much extra legwork spent on presentation. They keep their pricing for both opaque though so I imagine it could get expensive depending on your ability to negotiate with people like that.
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Feb 8, 2012 21:15
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proof of concept posted:If you're doing this as a hobby/project that's cool, but if you're committed enough to spend money on data entry you might as well just buy a subscription to fightmetric's statistics database since they do the official stats for the UFC. They also have an api you can subscribe to if you want to throw up their stats on your web page without too much extra legwork spent on presentation. They keep their pricing for both opaque though so I imagine it could get expensive depending on your ability to negotiate with people like that. That's definitely something to look into after a proof of concept actually gets hammered out. Thanks, man.
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Feb 8, 2012 21:38
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I really would prefer you not hit me with hammers tia
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Feb 8, 2012 21:41
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oh well there you go. If its for a school project you might be able to convince them to give you a cheap price or some kind of limited free access or something. Or they'll laugh and say no way.
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Feb 8, 2012 21:50
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What about collaborating with Johnny Fistpout aka dokmo? He used to give us all those graphs of fighter stats, fight outcomes, etc.
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Feb 8, 2012 22:14
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Save Russian Jews posted:Anyway, I'm wondering if I would possibly have enough people to fill a thread for a bit. I mean, even if you're not willing to help out with the original algorithm design, database design (probably a single text file will do for this, but I'm open to ideas), or program functionality, I'm sure you can argue with people about facets of the program. I still don't know much about MMA but I do have lots of experience with sports math. I would be happy to contribute.
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Feb 8, 2012 22:23
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dokmo posted:I still don't know much about MMA but I do have lots of experience with sports math. I would be happy to contribute. you're my hero, dok mo
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Feb 8, 2012 22:51
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moww posted:I'd contribute to your thread. I've actually been wanting to do something very similar for a while now, possibly involving making a program to crawl sherdog or wikipedia to gather data. I made a site scrapper couple years ago for sherdog when I had a similar idea. Will see if I can find it. Got bored with it for whatever reason. e: this is a thing http://www.datachoke.com/ e2: can't find it  It was cool too. Was doing it to learn python
lamentable dustman fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 9, 2012 |
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Feb 9, 2012 02:12
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Save Russian Jews posted:Hey, for like 3 years I've been trying to start making a (not super-serious and lame) MMAth program that takes statistics such as submission %/#, ko %/#, decisions, etc. and builds a profile for each fighter. I may/may not use this as a Comp Sci project at some point. I have a background in software development, statistical analysis and developing complex models of systems and would be very interested in trolling the poo poo out of your thread.
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Feb 9, 2012 02:26
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Save Russian Jews posted:(but the fact that dozens of people can potentially argue about and have input on the algorithm will put it at a very high level). Yeah, exactly. This is how powerful models are developed. By committee.
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Feb 9, 2012 02:34
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I'd be interested in helping out as well, though I have no (real) coding experience... I am looking into learning and getting some experience, though. Eagerly awaiting the thread 
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Feb 9, 2012 04:46
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I can't code for poo poo but I can help provide data.
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Feb 9, 2012 05:32
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rocco tuna will make the website.
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Feb 9, 2012 06:50
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Just want to thank the OP for the emphatic recommendation of Kazuo Misaki vs. Jorge Santiago 2. Holy poo poo what an amazing fight.
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Feb 9, 2012 08:18
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Wanted to throw it out there that I have some C++ experience and am currently taking an Advanced Algorithms course and I'd be interested in assisting as well. Everyone who does MMA can code right?
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Feb 9, 2012 09:30
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david carmichael posted:I have a background in software development, statistical analysis and developing complex models of systems and would be very interested in trolling the poo poo out of your thread. ladies and gentlemen: exhibit A
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Feb 9, 2012 16:37
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Save Russian Jews posted:I was thinking it could just be a general MMAth thread, like a repository for crazy stat-poo poo (I'd honestly love to have whatever access dokmo has to fight info) and those sometimes-cool, sometimes-not who-beat-who flowcharts.
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Feb 9, 2012 21:46
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It was mentioned in the UFC thread that Nick Diaz trains for triathlons year-round, and that's why he has such good cardio. Swimming is probably the hardest part of that training, and I was wondering if there are any other modern fighters that use swimming to develop cardio. I remember reading that Ali used to run and box in swimming pools to develop power, but haven't heard of many other fighters doing it; aside from BJ Penn's jump out of the pool video. Purely from a training standpoint, it seems to be only a win-win situation: virtually no joint impact and incredible for improving overall cardiovascular fitness quickly. The only downsides I can think of for fighters are: potential shoulder issues from poor form, low availability or access to pools, and the time investment it takes to develop good form. And also the hassle of having a pool membership and suiting up/showering off versus the ease of running.
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Feb 10, 2012 04:14
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