|
japtor posted:At the press day or whatever a while back didn't Toyota mention they set up the suspension a bit different? Technically, yes. But, based upon the recent review by Top Gear, they are of the impression that any difference is negligible at best. Besides, any of us getting either car will likely fix new suspension mods to the car shortly after getting it. Definitely getting wider summer radials at the very least, this thing will never see a Canadian winter.
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 18:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:It's not so bad, the Yen is already depreciating again since the Japanese are being forced to import huge amounts of petroleum to make up for their offline nuclear plants. This is such a  version of "it's not so bad".
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 18:27
|
|
|
GM is building the new Aveo in Michigan since labor there is now cheaper then Asia. Good times!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 18:43
|
|
|
was my point extremely unclear or something? my point was not audi has a diverse portfolio or audi won't sell 100k units of a model or anything like that. it was that another OEM has established a clear baseline of what they think is the minimum production level to sustain a separate assembly plant and therefore based on those public comments plus the anticipated sales volume of the brz it makes zero sense to localize production (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 18:47
|
|
|
Isizzlehorn posted:Technically, yes. But, based upon the recent review by Top Gear, they are of the impression that any difference is negligible at best. Besides, any of us getting either car will likely fix new suspension mods to the car shortly after getting it. Definitely getting wider summer radials at the very least, this thing will never see a Canadian winter. Where do you live in Canada that you only get snow during the winter? I wouldn't mind living there. EDIT: By which I mean, if you're planning to use this as a daily-driver, I'd go on all-seasons, not summers. What happens when you want to take a mid-fall road trip and there's already snow in the passes?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 19:25
|
|
|
I got the impression he lives somewhere warm, so it'll never see anything like a Canadian winter. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 20:54
|
|
|
He's Canadian, I just figured he meant he had a winter e: Do Canadians have summer beaters instead? 
Splizwarf fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Feb 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 21:04
|
|
|
Splizwarf posted:Cakefool could probably shed some more light on this. Hooray I'm useful!  Yeah all the plastic mouldings & shell body parts will need their own press toolings, I'd imagine all underbody & inner is common, massive cost saving. If you're building three variants in the same place (Toy/Sub/Sci) You get volume savings on every common part & only need a single set of tooling. As an example think £3-500k for a single sidemember tooling set (4 x 28t dies). Mat_Drinks posted:Well poo poo, I didn't think they'd be using the same paint. Same washdown prep, same primer, same lab mixing the paint with the same chemicals & QC, same robots & sprayguns applying the paint, same ovens curing the paint in the same conditions. Sorry. InitialDave posted:They could modify their production system in Japan to provide the US with CKD kits, which would be a good halfway house. Possible, a lot of work is involved even then but labour differences would have to be phenomenal(& long term) to justify it. cakesmith handyman fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 2, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 21:16
|
|
|
Split the difference and build it in Britain! Home of the low run commercially marginal sports car!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 21:51
|
|
|
Throatwarbler posted:Split the difference and build it in Britain! Home of the low run commercially marginal sports car!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 22:38
|
|
|
You Am I posted:We'll wait for Subaru/Toyota to be down to their last dollar before doing that. You have to be bankrupt to run a car plant in the UK Thats why honda and nissan build cars here?
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 22:51
|
|
|
They've even been known to export them to Japan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 22:55
|
|
|
Splizwarf posted:He's Canadian, I just figured he meant he had a winter Check my thread. EDIT: Ontario and Michigan are neighbours and share weather. Would you say that about someone from Detroit? Sockington fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2012 23:35
|
|
|
Vancouver is pretty mild.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 00:34
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:The late '80s - early '90s really were Halcyon days for Japanese carmakers that in many ways they have not touched since. You can tell by the engineering and build on many models from that era that the budgets for them were pretty significant, likely greater than the models after this period. Not only that, but afterwards, Japanese cars lost their essential 'japaneseness.' Partly blame their popularity in the American market and the shrinking of the JDM market, due both to social trends that do not favor car ownership and general economic malaise. Japan's economy was in the shitter for a good 15 years, and it's not exactly doing great even now. That's why 42% of Honda's sales were in North America, for instance, and the profit margin is higher on its American products than domestically. And that's including the various large price subsidies and protectionist tariffs they get from the Japanese government for their domestic market. Maybe it's expansion or maybe it's just corporate decline, but the sad story of Honda is the big one there. It seems like Subaru was the last to go, but now even they're releasing an ever-growing line-up of weirdo crossovers and extremely fat cars (see: the godawful Legacy). Hopefully Toyota finds itself again, because man is their line-up bad. The only other car I would even think about owning is the Prius.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 02:14
|
|
|
Isizzlehorn posted:Technically, yes. But, based upon the recent review by Top Gear, they are of the impression that any difference is negligible at best. Besides, any of us getting either car will likely fix new suspension mods to the car shortly after getting it. Definitely getting wider summer radials at the very least, this thing will never see a Canadian winter. I think we should wait until at least a few other places try to find differences. I would definitely not gently caress with the suspension or tires, at least not off the bat. They spent years crafting this thing, I'm not gonna pretend I can make it more fun by doing stuff to the springs/shocks and tires.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 02:30
|
|
|
TMC press release today stated a sales target of 1,000/month in Japan
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 02:37
|
|
|
All of Toyota's plants are running at full capacity now. What room was left in the Subaru Indiana plant is being used to run more Camry's. Even with the yen killing imports, they would never consider building this car in the US.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 02:41
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:I would definitely not gently caress with the suspension or tires, Suspension, no, but I would definitely swap out the stock tires for something more sport-oriented. Luckily, 225/45/R17 is a great size for tires because it is the best size for price/performance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 02:54
|
|
|
17s are so expensive, ughhhhh. Also, to put it in perspective, the Mazda2 has been selling at about 1k/month.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 03:03
|
|
|
that's the first thing I was planning on doing. TIC and RCE are both already working on stuff for this and it'll definitely need stickier tires. They've already stated they put economy all seasons on it for "fun to drive" factor over outright performance, I'm betting this is going to do poorly in magazine skidpad/slalom/handling tests compared to other cars.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 03:10
|
|
|
jamal posted:They've already stated they put economy all seasons on it for "fun to drive" factor over outright performance, I'm betting this is going to do poorly in magazine skidpad/slalom/handling tests compared to other cars. Yeah, so you can feel the end step out more, right? I hope people who get it can praise it how it is. Not that it won't be faster if it's modded up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 04:18
|
|
|
Just got the March issue of Car and Driver. 3 page article on the BRZ vs the FRS
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 04:57
|
|
|
jamal posted:I'm betting this is going to do poorly in magazine skidpad/slalom/handling tests compared to other cars. And then get quoted by bench racers who utterly ignore the fact grip != handling
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 05:58
|
|
|
^ Perhaps the perfect video to illustrate this - these are completely stock cars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAHFQnyX0C0 The official 86 websites for both Toyota jp and TRD jp are up... and yes there is a bewildering array of options and accessories already... ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 06:15
|
|
|
kimbo305 posted:Yeah, so you can feel the end step out more, right? I hope people who get it can praise it how it is. Not that it won't be faster if it's modded up. quote:When asked how the two cars differ, the Scion folks tell us the BRZ is about stability and the FR-S is about agility. The word “understeer” has surfaced in initial reports on the Subaru BRZ. The Scion doesn’t understeer. Its cornering balance is neutral—bravely neutral for a car that will be sold to young buyers. Scion claims the only changes to its chassis are slightly softer springs and stiffer dampers. quote:Even with a far, far less talented driver behind the wheel, the FR-S dives into corners with enthusiasm and a minimum of understeer. We haven't had the same editor in both the Subaru and the Scion, but comparing notes, it appears that the Scion is less susceptible to understeer than the BRZ. Chief engineer Tada-San says that his goal in tuning the FR-S was agility, whereas Subaru focused more on stability, so this makes sense. "We have softer springs and stiffer dampers in front than Subaru does," Tada-San tells us. "At the rear, I chose the same spring rates as Subaru but different valves in the dampers."
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 08:15
|
|
|
Has anyone heard anything about the turning radius? I'm kind of bummed that the Scion is the more neutral handler. I liked the front end and center stack of the Subaru a lot better (and those 86 badges are a bit chintzy). I wonder if the BRZ actually understeers off the track in normal conditions. Given the irrational power of branding, I suspect that the Subaru is going to hold its value better in Subaru markets such as my own (PacNW), but I'd like to be wrong on that one. blk fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Feb 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 19:56
|
|
|
Any difference between the two will be nearly imperceptible, and will be completely overshadowed once you put real summers on it instead of Prius tires. Just get the one you like the looks / brand of more. edit: from topgear online quote:So how different is it to its twin sister, the Subaru BRZ? I spent a whole day in the BRZ at Subaru's test track late last year, so this is where you expect me to say no, to say there are small but definable differences between the Subaru and Toyota. Possibly while scratching my chin and looking thoughtful. But there aren't. DEUCE SLUICE fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Feb 3, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 20:56
|
|
|
DEUCE SLUICE posted:Any difference between the two will be nearly imperceptible, and will be completely overshadowed once you put real summers on it instead of Prius tires. Like I said before, let's get more opinions on it. I hope they're the same, too, but I'd also like it if all that diff hardware actually makes a perceptible difference.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 21:03
|
|
|
On paper, a TRD version (assuming with better rubber from the factory) will be significantly faster now. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 22:15
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Where do you live in Canada that you only get snow during the winter? I wouldn't mind living there. Ontario, suburbs surrounding Toronto. While splitting the season at 6 months for each car sounds good, I think I'll wind up pushing it longer with the FR-S. You can reliably drive up to the end of October and never see any ice or snow. You can start the season as early as March, definitely by April. Conservatively speaking, that's 5 months winter, 7 months summer. My current DD is an old 2000 Camry, and I invested in a set of winters already. I figure I'll get the FR-S for summer, and pickup something to replace the Camry in 5 years or so. I'll do a better job of the next winter car and start it with underbody spray to avoid any goddamn rust as much as possible. I know full well how detrimental Canadian winters are on cars, on account of deep cold, salt and sand. That won't be happening with the FR-S. kimbo305 posted:I think we should wait until at least a few other places try to find differences. Fair enough. You can bet there'll be 'aftermarket' parts from TRD day 1, though. I don't put too much stake in 'they spent so much time building it, it's perfect the way it is'. Nissan said the same thing of the GT-R when it first came out, and that's been through a ton of minor and major changes since.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2012 22:57
|
|
|
Isizzlehorn posted:Fair enough. You can bet there'll be 'aftermarket' parts from TRD day 1, though. I don't put too much stake in 'they spent so much time building it, it's perfect the way it is'. Nissan said the same thing of the GT-R when it first came out, and that's been through a ton of minor and major changes since. I acknowledge that little tweaks can make it better. They continually messed with the suspension formula on the S2000 in the US market to respond to various complaints/needs. But that's different from ordering a set of springs and tires along with the car just assuming it'll be gravy together.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 00:03
|
|
|
Toyota doesn't have a very good track record with using spring rates that aren't a complete joke on chassis that end in '86' though
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 04:43
|
|
|
Well uk base price is £25k http://blog.toyota.co.uk/toyota-announces-official-uk-price-for-new-gt-86 Which is about in line or slightly more than an mx5. Do all the different trims come with an lsd?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 05:19
|
|
|
£25k is affordable, time to start saving for a 12 month old '13 model 
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 10:36
|
|
|
Isizzlehorn posted:Fair enough. You can bet there'll be 'aftermarket' parts from TRD day 1, though. I don't put too much stake in 'they spent so much time building it, it's perfect the way it is'. Nissan said the same thing of the GT-R when it first came out, and that's been through a ton of minor and major changes since. *cough* http://www.trdparts.jp/86_performanceline/index.html
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 10:53
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:*cough* http://www.trdparts.jp/86_performanceline/index.html What's the deal with the TRD door latches? There's graphs and everything showing something but I can't make sense of it. Also, a "performance" gas cap that you can only see with the fuel door open seems kind of pointless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 13:54
|
|
|
Jay-Zeus posted:Also, a "performance" gas cap that you can only see with the fuel door open seems kind of pointless. You'd be surprised how many people will tout their pointless TRD crap in a signature on Club86.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 15:20
|
|
|
Jay-Zeus posted:What's the deal with the TRD door latches? There's graphs and everything showing something but I can't make sense of it. Also, a "performance" gas cap that you can only see with the fuel door open seems kind of pointless. I recall this coming up before. The idea is the stock latches don't hold the doors in tight enough during high-g maneuvers, and can cause instability issues (very minor ones). This is the case on most cars, though, so TRD went as ADD as you can get and built better door hinges to improve on that performance. You can find the hinges under 'performance' mods on the TRD site linked up above, along with some pics and 'graphz'. You know, so you can try and justify yourself to anyone astonished you went and upgraded your loving door hinges.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 15:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
Sockington posted:You'd be surprised how many people will tout their pointless TRD crap in a signature on Club86.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2012 15:58
|
|
Cat Army