Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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az jan jananam: Sep 6, 2011; HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH

A really good article that describes how the Syrian situation has already become factionalized and will get worse.

quote:

(Reuters) - A year ago, Ali was enjoying university in Damascus, looking forward to a career in dentistry and paying little heed to politics in a country controlled by a single family for over 40 years.

That all changed, not so much when other Syrians took to the streets to demand President Bashar al-Assad step down, but when a mysterious message popped up on his Facebook page; it told him to get out of town, or die - because he was the wrong religion.

"You Alawite," read a text on the social networking site, widely hailed by pro-democracy activists for enabling the Arab Spring uprisings. "We don't want to see your face in Barzeh."

Now, long dormant religious bigotries have thrust politics on Ali, who was born into the minority Alawite sect and still lives in the Damascus suburb of Barzeh, where most of his neighbors are Sunni Muslims. The 25-year-old student is now a firm supporter of Assad, not from any admiration for the wealthy elite that has run the country with an iron - and often bloody - fist for four decades, but because they too are Alawites.

"They sent me the threat just because I am an Alawite living in Barzeh," Ali said during a series of interviews Reuters conducted in the Syrian capital last week with a variety of Alawite residents who asked that their identities be concealed.

If Assad falls, they fear a bloodbath for fellow Alawites, outnumbered six to one by the Sunnis in a Syrian population of 23 million, which also includes large minorities of Christians and ethic Kurds.

"We will go to the palace to protect him with our lives," said Mahmoud, an Alawite student at another Damascus university, who spoke to Reuters among a group of friends.

"If Assad goes," added another in the group, also called Ali, "I'm sure I'll either end up dead or I'll leave the country."

ANGER AT CRACKDOWN

Opposition leaders, some of whom have taken up arms in an increasingly violent confrontation that has killed more than 5,000 people in 11 months, mostly dismiss suggestions the revolt is destined to divide Syrians along ethnic and religious lines.

But millions are incensed by the killing, arrests and torture unleashed last year by the Alawite-led authorities against demonstrators, including women and children, who confronted them in mainly Sunni cities like Deraa.

In a country which has seen refugees stream in from the sectarian blood-letting in Iraq in recent years, and where Assad and his late father are widely perceived by much of the 75-percent Sunni majority to have heavily favored the once scorned Alawites, the language of religious hatred is growing louder. Stories of reciprocal atrocity are gaining currency.

Typical of such tales is that of Ali, the dental student. He said he took the threat on Facebook seriously because one of his uncles had been killed. His body parts were delivered in a bag to his home village in the Alawites' western mountain heartland.

Mahmoud, who hails originally from Rabia in rural Hama province, said 39 people from his village had been killed since March: "If someone leaves the village, is stopped at a checkpoint and they know he is an Alawite, they kill him."

Like accounts from Homs last month of a massacre of 14 members of a Sunni family by suspected pro-government Alawite militiamen, or 'shabbiha', the report is impossible to check in a country where reporting is heavily restricted.

For the Alawites, who identify their faith as a variant of the Shi'ite Islam practiced in Iran, long a close ally of Assad, the rise in the ranks of the opposition of the Sunni Islamist movement the Muslim Brotherhood and other conservative Sunnis who accuse Alawites of heresy is a particular cause of anxiety.

"If Bashar loses power, then definitely a non-Alawite will rule," said Fadi, a harassed-looking man in his 30s who runs a clothes store in Damascus. "The new regime will be tough on us Alawites and it will discriminate against us."

Fadi admitted that some of his acquaintances had put their resistance to change into action, driven by fear to attack and beat up some of the demonstrators who have dared to protest against Assad and his Alawite-dominated security forces.

Others are just keeping their heads down, trying to conceal any sign of their affiliations. That can range from accent - many Alawites hail from mountain villages near Lebanon whose Arabic is distinctive - to their names, since some given names are more common among either Alawites or Sunnis.

"These days I am scared to give my name," said Ali, the student from the mainly Sunni suburb of Barzeh. "Sometimes I say it is Omar. Sometimes I use something else."

HISTORICAL GRIEVANCES

Communal support for Assad invokes not only the fear of reprisal, but the historic marginalization of Alawites from the centuries of Sunni Ottoman rule down to the emergence of Assad's father, Hafez al-Assad. He took power in 1970 and died in 2000.

Before the Assads, Alawites say, they were treated routinely as second-class citizens, discriminated against and deprived of holding senior posts in the government.

"My father used to walk 20 km to get to school, because schools in our area were scarce," said Abdullah, a government employee in Damascus recalling his father's childhood in the Alawite mountain villages in the 1950s and 60s. "Now we're allowed proper education, and this is thanks to Hafez."

Assad's opponents, for their part, recount decades of fear and oppression under the Assads, not just for Sunni Islamists but secular liberals, communists, Kurds and pretty much anyone who dared question the family's monopoly on power.

Islamists take their historical bearings from the bloodiest moment of Assad rule when, 30 years ago this week, the father unleashed his forces, with Alawites at the spearhead, on Hama.

At least 10,000 people were killed, possibly two or three times as many, as artillery and tanks pounded the stronghold of the rebellious Muslim Brotherhood, leveling much of the old city in the process. It is an experience some Syrian Islamists recount as the profanation of sacred territory by heretics.

Adnan Arour, a Sunni cleric who fled Syria during Assad's reprisals against the Brotherhood, now wages a campaign of sectarian invective against the younger Assad from Sunni-led Saudi Arabia - which has backed calls for the end of his rule.

"As for those Alawites who violate what is sacred, when the Muslims rule and are the majority of 85 percent, we will chop you up and feed you to the dogs," Arour said in June.

Though he does not speak for a majority in Syria, for fundamentalist Sunnis, Alawites' beliefs and practices place them outside the bounds of Islam altogether.

ALAWITES' DEFENCE

Alawites dominate senior positions in the security apparatus. But many others say they see few of the privileges that have accrued to Assad's inner circle over four decades.

Many of the two million or so Alawites live still in rural villages, while those who have migrated to Damascus say they are no better off than the substantial Sunni middle class which has also so far generally stood behind Assad and against upheaval.

Yara, a government employee in her 30s, was, like many Alawites, at pains to stress that their community did not feel especially favored under the Assads and that, in her view, Sunnis benefited more from public sector employment: "Most of us Alawites are small traders," she told Reuters in the capital.

"The Sunnis get the government jobs, so we don't get our due from the state," said Yara, who was sporting a bracelet adorned with the red, black and white Syrian flag adopted after Assad's Baath Party seized power in the 1960s. It stands in contrast to the older green, black and white tricolor used by opponents.

"The Alawites live in the mountains, with no electricity or water," Yara said of the continuing hardships for many of her community. "And now they say we should be kicked out?"

Though many Syrians would scoff at the notion, other Alawites insist that the president is a secular leader, blind to sectarian concerns, whose wife is Sunni.

As well as sharpening sectarian frictions, the violence of recent months has opened up differences within the Alawite community. Some prominent Alawite political activists have taken a stand against Assad. Aref Dalila and Najati Tayara have both been jailed for their opposition, while noted actress Fadwa Suleiman has led protests in the opposition stronghold of Homs.

But the Alawite students who spoke in Damascus dismissed them as self-serving attention-seekers, careless of the threat facing the minority as a group. "They don't represent us," said the student Mahmoud. "They're just hypocrites looking for fame."

Some also call naive those Alawites who push for reform, citing the example of Egypt's Christian minority, who embraced the revolution in Cairo alongside their Muslim compatriots but now fear a new rule dominated by conservative Sunnis.

"ALL MURDERERS"

At bottom, Mahmoud and other Syrian Alawites argue, it will not matter whether an individual opposes Assad or not - in the final accounting, if he is overthrown by a movement dominated by Sunni Islamists, all Alawites will be marked for revenge.

As one opposition activist put it in a private conversation recently: "Every Alawite between the age of 16 to 40 is a murderer, whether he likes it or not.

"The regime has recruited them, either as shabbiha in the capital or in the regular army, to kill us."

Disdain for the Alawites as a group is not limited to the firebrand preachers broadcasting from the Gulf. At a polite, middle-class dinner party last week in Damascus, one educated professional, a Sunni though not a pious one, spoke with casual disparagement that betrays each sect's ignorance of the other.

"The Alawites do not have mosques," the man said. "They do not pray like us. Nobody knows what they are."

The prospect of life without the Assads - a prospect many world and Arab leaders see as all but inevitable - is driving many Alawites to desperate extremes. Rallies in support of the president and his family were, in the early days of the rising, relatively staid affairs, where loyalists bussed in from Alawite strongholds ran through a routine playlist of Baathist chanting.

Now, there is real anger, passion and fear on the streets, with some crowds howling devotion to the president's younger brother Maher, commander of a military unit in the vanguard of the crackdown on opposition bastions.

Screaming for him to "finish off" the rebels, demonstrators have chanted: "Get on with it, Maher. For God's sake!"

Mahmoud, the Damascus student from Rabia, was keeping his calm when he spoke to a foreign reporter. But his voice betrayed a grim determination that sends a chilling signal for Syria's future: "For me, it's an eye for an eye," he said.

"If someone wants to kill me and my family I won't just stand and watch. If this is how they want it, then so be it."

az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Feb 5, 2012

# ? Feb 5, 2012 15:32

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:03

Intelligibility: Apr 8, 2011; Get shovel!

Anonymous just posted a vid on Twitter which according to the description shows Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE. I am not gonna click on it, god Im loving sick... :cry:

e: Sent you a pm Moses, it's on reddit now: :nms:

http://www.reddit.com/tb/pbvs9 WARNING THIS IS hosed UP poo poo IM NOT KIDDING :nms:

e2: not enough :nms:

in the world for this jesus christ....

Intelligibility fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 5, 2012

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:45

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Lot's of western leaders and Arab League members promising more action on Syria today, although it's all rather vague and unspecific at the moment. Russia is believed to be trying to convince Assad to make democratic reforms, but it looks like the ship has sailed on that one already.

If you really want to ruin your day look at some of the videos being posted online at the moment, lots of dead kids and really horrific injuries. Honestly some of the worst stuff I've seen in the past 12 months.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:45

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Intelligibility posted:

Anonymous just posted a vid on Twitter which according to the description shows Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE. I am not gonna click on it, god Im loving sick...

Can you tweet it to me, or PM, so I can spread it about?

[edit] Found it, wish I hadn't.

Here's a live stream from a Homs clinic potential :nms:

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 5, 2012

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:49

Sir John Falstaff: Apr 13, 2010

Barry the Sprout posted:

All I can do is relay what my friends are telling me. They say they are afraid of the FSA, I can't argue with them. It's not my country to do that, is it?

Out of curiosity, what faction(s) do your friends belong to? Are they Alawites, Sunnis, Christians, Kurds, other. . .?

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:54

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

Lot's of western leaders and Arab League members promising more action on Syria today, although it's all rather vague and unspecific at the moment. Russia is believed to be trying to convince Assad to make democratic reforms, but it looks like the ship has sailed on that one already.

And the whole negotiation route pretty much dies the second when the ruling power starts doing excessive use of force and bringing the heavy artillery.

The only chance to negotiate was during the initial non-violent protests but the extreme reaction from the ruling government pretty much ended that option.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:54

Nuclear Spoon: Aug 18, 2010

Intelligibility posted:

Anonymous just posted a vid on Twitter which according to the description shows Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE. I am not gonna click on it, god Im loving sick...

e: Sent you a pm Moses, it's on reddit now: http://www.reddit.com/tb/pbvs9 WARNING THIS IS hosed UP poo poo IM NOT KIDDING

ufWRDTKUFIYLJETSHA why did i click this

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:54

Intelligibility: Apr 8, 2011; Get shovel!

Nuclear Spoon posted:

ufWRDTKUFIYLJETSHA why did i click this

I warned you dude! :cry:

e: For anyone on Twitter here's the feed that posted the video, https://twitter.com/#!/OperationLeakS, Anon trying to raise awareness through reddit.

And now please excuse me while I puke my guts out...

Intelligibility fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Feb 5, 2012

# ? Feb 5, 2012 16:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

I'm just glad months of videos have numbed me somewhat to the horrors in that video. That has to really one of the worst I've seen.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:02

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

What the loving gently caress, thats horrifying! gently caress!

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:04

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

I'm just glad months of videos have numbed me somewhat to the horrors in that video. That has to really one of the worst I've seen.

And the regime is pretty delusional to think such excessive violence against unarmed people will solves things, similar to Libya it creates a anger and drive to seek vengeance despite the hopeless odds.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:10

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

To be fair we don't know the context of the video. It could be shrapnel damage and the guy is a doctor fighting infection and trying to patch the kid up. But I stopped watching when it panned to the guys face, so what do I know?

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:14

Intelligibility: Apr 8, 2011; Get shovel!

etalian posted:

And the regime is pretty delusional to think such excessive violence against unarmed people will solves things, similar to Libya it creates a anger and drive to seek vengeance despite the hopeless odds.

I don't think there can ever be a smooth and peaceful transition in Syria after the atrocities the regime committed.

See also syrian protesters holding a sign addressing the first lady (paraphrased, dont have the pic on hand right now) saying: 'To the first lady, we promise you will be the last widow.'
If, or when, the regime falls I wouldnt be surprised to see massive retaliation against former regime supporters.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:15

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

This could be the kid after he's be bandaged up, not sure if he's alive. Much less Silent Hill than the last one.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:16

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

Whenever someone says not to click something, I assume it will be bad, but not so bad the numbness I've built up from seeing enough terrible videos out of Syria and Libya will be overcome. Holy gently caress I was wrong.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:34

J33uk: Oct 24, 2005

Looks like Egypt is going to move forward with trials for the NGO employees who were detained. That's going to be diplomacy pretty interesting for SCAF and co.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:39

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

19 Americans will be tried, but it's not clear they've been detained. At least a couple are still at the US embassy, I wonder how that's going to work out.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:41

Sir John Falstaff: Apr 13, 2010

Demiurge4 posted:

To be fair we don't know the context of the video. It could be shrapnel damage and the guy is a doctor fighting infection and trying to patch the kid up. But I stopped watching when it panned to the guys face, so what do I know?

Yeah, I'll admit I didn't watch it either. But I'm always somewhat suspicious of videos like that where, from the video itself, the context is unknown, the identities of the people in the video is unknown, the location is unknown, the date is unknown, etc.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 17:50

Paradox Personified: Mar 15, 2010; SoroScrew

az jan jananam posted:

A really good article that describes how the Syrian situation has already become factionalized and will get worse.

Oh poo poo, ghosts? Can they be compared to the baltajia elsewhere?

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:00

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Yeah, I'll admit I didn't watch it either. But I'm always somewhat suspicious of videos like that where, from the video itself, the context is unknown, the identities of the people in the video is unknown, the location is unknown, the date is unknown, etc.

There's a handful of videos from the same hospital and the guy speaking in the videos refers to Syria and Homs. I don't think the date is mentioned, though.

edit: In another video featuring the kid from the end of the video in question (now bandanged up with an amputated leg, but fine), he blames Bashar al-Assad, Russia, and China specifically.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 5, 2012

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:05

Paradox Personified: Mar 15, 2010; SoroScrew

The best part are the CIA DID THIS gently caress USA comments that flood those videos constantly...

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:07

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Xandu posted:

edit: In another video featuring the kid from the end of the video in question (now bandanged up with an amputated leg, but fine), he blames Bashar al-Assad, Russia, and China specifically.

Not that I'm suggesting it isnt a horrible crime that he got hurt, the fact that a little syrian boy from a village who just has his leg blown off having the mental presence to specifically target china and russia tells me he's probably been fed those lines.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:14

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

I wasn't clear, the kid wasn't talking in the video at all, it was somebody else, probably an activist, since he wasn't dressed like a doctor.

I was mostly just using it as evidence to establish time/place though.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:15

Sir John Falstaff: Apr 13, 2010

Xandu posted:

There's a handful of videos from the same hospital and the guy speaking in the videos refers to Syria and Homs. I don't think the date is mentioned, though.

edit: In another video featuring the kid from the end of the video in question (now bandanged up with an amputated leg, but fine), he blames Bashar al-Assad, Russia, and China specifically.

Well, against my better judgment I watched the video. It shows a boy with a truly horrific face wound. What it doesn't show is "Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE!!!!!" There's really no way of knowing how the injury happened or who or what caused it.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:19

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Xandu posted:

I wasn't clear, the kid wasn't talking in the video at all, it was somebody else, probably an activist, since he wasn't dressed like a doctor.

I was mostly just using it as evidence to establish time/place though.

In the follow up video the kid looks knocked out on anasthetics. Someone is rubbing his leg, probably to keep him warm, so my bet is he's not dead.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:20

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Sir John Falstaff posted:

Well, against my better judgment I watched the video. It shows a boy with a truly horrific face wound. What it doesn't show is "Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE!!!!!" There's really no way of knowing how the injury happened or who or what caused it.

Well, I would blame anonymous/reddit for that description.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:38

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Mubarak is going to be transferred to the hospital at Tora Prison.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j5s6AnieOggKot1YTHPdiHQ9hVDg?docId=97e580559db84ed4a975345a957fb741

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:47

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

For those of you who don't want to watch the video, but know the Anon/Reddit description is wrong and want know the contents here's the description.

A teenager, probably 15, is in a hospital, sat on a bed, with his entire jaw missing, quite a bit of his cheeks, and possibly his tongue, all very red and bloody. He's conscious, and obviously extremely distressed, and this is all filmed clearly and graphically. There's no evidence it was cut off by anyone, but possibly blown or shot off.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 18:55

Dodoman: Feb 26, 2009; A moment of laxity
A lifetime of regret; Lipstick Apathy

Intelligibility posted:

Anonymous just posted a vid on Twitter which according to the description shows Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE. I am not gonna click on it, god Im loving sick...

e: Sent you a pm Moses, it's on reddit now: http://www.reddit.com/tb/pbvs9 WARNING THIS IS hosed UP poo poo IM NOT KIDDING
e2: not enough in the world for this jesus christ....

How the gently caress is the kid still alive? gently caress... I'd have gestured to someone to shoot me at that point, cause gently caress living life like that :cry:

# ? Feb 5, 2012 19:20

HappyKittens: Feb 4, 2012; by angerbutt

Intelligibility posted:

Anonymous just posted a vid on Twitter which according to the description shows Assads soldiers literally CUTTING OFF A CHILDS FACE. I am not gonna click on it, god Im loving sick...

e: Sent you a pm Moses, it's on reddit now: http://www.reddit.com/tb/pbvs9 WARNING THIS IS hosed UP poo poo IM NOT KIDDING
e2: not enough in the world for this jesus christ....

I'm pretty sure his jaw wasn't 'cut off'. There's also another boy missing his left foot, has to be an explosion of somekind.

A similar video from a few monthes ago

# ? Feb 5, 2012 19:24

Intelligibility: Apr 8, 2011; Get shovel!

Sorry if my post was misleading, didn't watch the vid and just went with the description anon gave. Apologies!

# ? Feb 5, 2012 19:27

Svartvit: Jun 18, 2005; al-Qabila samaa Bahth

Brown Moses posted:

For those of you who don't want to watch the video, but know the Anon/Reddit description is wrong and want know the contents here's the description.

A teenager, probably 15, is in a hospital, sat on a bed, with his entire jaw missing, quite a bit of his cheeks, and possibly his tongue, all very red and bloody. He's conscious, and obviously extremely distressed, and this is all filmed clearly and graphically. There's no evidence it was cut off by anyone, but possibly blown or shot off.

I've read about anti-personnel artillery doing these kinds of things when they explode close to the ground. Wasn't Homs bombed?

# ? Feb 5, 2012 19:33

Ace Oliveira: Dec 27, 2009; "I wonder if there is beer on the sun."

Svartvit posted:

I've read about anti-personnel artillery doing these kinds of things when they explode close to the ground. Wasn't Homs bombed?

HappyKittens posted:

I'm pretty sure his jaw wasn't 'cut off'. There's also another boy missing his left foot, has to be an explosion of somekind.

A similar video from a few monthes ago

It was probably shot off or blown off, yeah. I haven't watched the video but if his face is intact except for the jaw, it could very well have been a bullet. If it was from arty, he probably would have more wounds than just that.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 20:18

GyverMac: Aug 3, 2006; My posting is like I Love Lucy without the funny bits. Basically, WAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Jesus christ. No matter how this conflict ends, there will be bloodshed and suffering one way or another, its a horrible, hosed up situation.

# ? Feb 5, 2012 20:18

CoderCat: May 7, 2005; Science, it works.

FSA celebrates "liberating" Rastan city (Homs) from Assad army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbMEq_3tZtA

FSA in Zabadani and Madaya (towns near Damascus) has held up against Assad attacks so far. In this video an FSA officer announces the destruction or capture of a number of armored vehicles belonging to Assad army. The officer threatens of attacking vital assets in the region if shelling doesn't stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9p8Ylqfjxw

# ? Feb 6, 2012 01:30

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

I wonder how the new Syrian government (let's face it, it's going to be a reality in spite of all the horrific acts by Assad) will treat Russia and China. It's like a previous poster said, they really are on the wrong side of history.

# ? Feb 6, 2012 03:30

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

I wonder how the new Syrian government (let's face it, it's going to be a reality in spite of all the horrific acts by Assad) will treat Russia and China. It's like a previous poster said, they really are on the wrong side of history.

Honestly at this point there is no right side of history, the SNC has shown itself to be nothing but a tail of the gulf dictatorships, and have allowed the entire cause of the Syrian people to effectively become a pawn in a much bigger regional game. This of course was greatly helped by the sheer stupidity and barbarity of the Assad Regime who in turn have cornered themselves into being pawns of other players. I honestly now think that even if the SNC gains power they will become a very sectarian and oppressive force who tow the gulf monarchies' line.

Nobody will win this one,it's going to be a full civil war, the Syrian people have lost.

# ? Feb 6, 2012 05:06

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

GyverMac posted:

Jesus christ. No matter how this conflict ends, there will be bloodshed and suffering one way or another, its a horrible, hosed up situation.

If the opposition groups eventually wins the armed conflict which will probably be a pyrrhic victory they will naturally take vengeance on everyone associated with the ruling powers.

It's really impossible to rebuild a functional society or forgive the other side when they are responsible for maiming and killing loved ones.

# ? Feb 6, 2012 05:23

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

etalian posted:

If the opposition groups eventually wins the armed conflict which will probably be a pyrrhic victory they will naturally take vengeance on everyone associated with the ruling powers.

It's really impossible to rebuild a functional society or forgive the other side when they are responsible for maiming and killing loved ones.

The problem is that the people with the regime are a wide net of the populace, including minorities and sunnis and civil servants functionaries of the state, this means that the opposition will cast a wide net of retribution against anyone who they think was on the regime, which will in reality mean anyone who is against the SNC and their Gulf backers.

Meet the new boss, same as the old one.

# ? Feb 6, 2012 05:41

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 08:03

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

A possible outcome of the Syrian revolution on an unpredictable scale, but not a certainty. Other possible outcomes are freedom, human rights and democracy.

Yet the consequences of losing are far worse for the Syrian people. So to put it bluntly, put yourself in their shoes and then have the balls to say you'd rather the oppressive dictator.

# ? Feb 6, 2012 05:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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