- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
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Crisis over.
Guys, I know it's been a brutal and violent year for Syria, but don't worry, salvation has arrrived. Finally an international voice willing to cry and say "no further".
Ban Ki-Moon has decided that the violence in Syria isn't a good thing. But don't worry, this no mere meaningless statement. The Chief man at the UN wants to... Send in Arab League Observers.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201228224311826930.html
He's even considering appointing an envoy, which I'm sure Syria and Russia will welcome, as the mystery of why children keep blowing into pieces in Homs is something that's of upmost concern to them.
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Feb 9, 2012 02:27
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 10, 2024 12:25
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- Miruvor
- Jan 19, 2007
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Pillbug
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Sivias posted:
If other countries felt threatened for the safety of their own. The scientists ignored their concerns. Yeah, I would expect that if they're smart enough to understand the complexities of developing such a thing, they could understand that it comes with the cost of doing business. And be clear - it is business. These guys aren't just doing this because they want to explore the mysteries of the atom.
How is that backwards?
Murdering scientists is still pretty backwards dude, don't think I can explain it more clearly.
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Feb 9, 2012 03:15
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Miruvor posted:
Murdering scientists is still pretty backwards dude, don't think I can explain it more clearly.
Yes, all science is benevolent no matter what the conditions.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/01/us-usa-guatemala-experiment-idUSTRE6903RZ20101001
Listen, like I said, I don't condone assassination. But it's not like these guys don't know what they're getting their hands into. When you develop weapons of war you deal in the politics of war.
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Feb 9, 2012 03:26
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- Miruvor
- Jan 19, 2007
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Pillbug
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Never really said all science was benevolent? But by your example, then all scientists and engineers working on the latest weapons for their respective countries would be fair game for assassination then.
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Feb 9, 2012 03:36
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Wording it as 'fair game' is a misrepresentation of my point, and yours, but essentially that's correct. The ethics of assassination are not in question here, I think we can all agree it's not morally "fair game".
But as for the nature, I don't think there is an argument. Assassinations aren't anything new under the sun.
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Feb 9, 2012 03:42
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- Miruvor
- Jan 19, 2007
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Pillbug
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Agreed that it's nothing new, which is all well and good, but saying that these Iranian scientists 'innocence' is in doubt, and thus all fair and good for them to be blown up still seems pretty dubious.
*Alright, I won't clog up the thread more. The only thing I'd say to Sivias is that I'm not really questioning why certain countries feel motivated to do this, only that we shouldn't be supporting it in the slightest.
Miruvor fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 9, 2012
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Feb 9, 2012 03:51
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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So the leader of the Coptic Church, Shenouda, said civil disobedience isn't allowed by the state or by religion.
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/node/646766
And so did the Sheikh of al-Azhar about striking.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/33974/Egypt/Politics-/Strikes-banned-under-Islamic-law-AlAzhar--.aspx
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Feb 9, 2012 03:58
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- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
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I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
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Miruvor posted:
Agreed that it's nothing new, which is all well and good, but saying that these Iranian scientists 'innocence' is in doubt, and thus all fair and good for them to be blown up still seems pretty dubious.
They aren't innocent. They are being paid very well by their government to develop a weapon of war* for what's sole purpose is the absolute destruction of tens thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives. What do you think the whole hubbup is about? That's why they're being killed.
*(supposedly)
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Feb 9, 2012 04:05
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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There's a whole thread in D&D about Iran and another one about Israel, talk about it in one of those, because this is one of those conversations that could very easily go in circles.
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Feb 9, 2012 04:06
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- CeeJee
- Dec 4, 2001
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Oven Wrangler
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Kenning posted:
The criteria for calling something a genocide is pretty specific, and Sabra and Shatila met those criteria, while Hama did not.
Then the Damour massacre in 1976 should meet those criteria and have been condemned by the UNSC. The massacre where Palestinians killed hundreds of Christians, including the family of the leader of the militia that carried out Sabra and Shatila.
If Americans or Israeli civilians were killed by someone who lost their relatives at the hands of their countrymen it would be called blowback but in the case of Sabra and Shatila there seems very little interest to look beyond blaming Ariel Sharon.
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Feb 9, 2012 06:08
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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http://bambuser.com/v/2353349
Shells keep landing closer and closer to this camera.
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Feb 9, 2012 06:54
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- Golbez
- Oct 9, 2002
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1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
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Jesus Christ, I was just watching thinking, "Looks like a nice day, nothing going on" and then all of a sudden, POW, explosion to the right.
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Feb 9, 2012 07:02
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- thiswayliesmadness
- Dec 3, 2009
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I hope to see you next time, and take care all
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Every time a shell goes off you see all the birds in the area take flight. You can tell that last one was -really- close when there's that many flying right in front of the camera after it hit.
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Feb 9, 2012 07:04
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Not sure if it's true, but
https://twitter.com/#!/NMSyria posted:
WE HAVE CONFIRMATION THAT 4 MEN HAVE BEEN KILLED BY THE ROCKET/SHELL THAT HIT CLOSE TO THE LIVE BROADCAST IN BAB AMR. #SYRIA #HOMS
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Feb 9, 2012 07:08
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- Golbez
- Oct 9, 2002
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1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
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Looks like the shell that landed in the distance near the right side of the frame started a fire, there's a black smoke plume there now.
Edit: Then again, I could be wrong, I don't know what that is.
Golbez fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 9, 2012
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Feb 9, 2012 07:11
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- Herstory Begins Now
- Aug 5, 2003
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Can't post for 12 hours!
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Xandu posted:
Not sure if it's true, but
NMSyria was spamming the channel with a lot of stupid bullshit last night.
Golbez posted:
Looks like the shell that landed in the distance near the right side of the frame started a fire, there's a black smoke plume there now.
Edit: Then again, I could be wrong, I don't know what that is.
It's been going since at least yesterday morning (Syrian time).
Also, this is definitely different footage than yesterday, clouds are totally different.
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Feb 9, 2012 07:51
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- OwlBot 2000
- Jun 1, 2009
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I can't quite say why, but I feel less and less worried that Israel is going to carry out any major strike, despite all the war-drumming. Anybody else get that feeling that its just more of the same old posturing, and partially an attempt to distract from domestic economic problems?
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Feb 9, 2012 08:07
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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The Libyan Women's Platform for Peace sent me a press release on the new constituion
quote:The Libyan Women’s Platform for Peace (LWPP) welcomes the passage of a new electoral law, which guarantees women at least 40 seats on the 200-member Constituent Assembly that will draft the country’s new constitution.
Libya’s National Transitional Council adopted the law at 11PM on Wednesday February 8th after a month-long campaign led by the LWPP and other civil society groups forced the NTC to delay and then scrap an initial, more restrictive draft law put forward by the council.
As soon as the electoral law was announced, the LWPP organized protests and commissioned the drafting of an alternative electoral law that contained a range of provisions to ensure women’s representation and other changes. The finalized text relies heavily on language of the LWPP law, which was drafted by a team of leading legal experts.
“It hasn’t been an easy battle, but we thank all the members of our legal team including Saleh El-Merghani, Dr Koni Abuda, Ali Dawi, Alhadi Abu Hanra and all the civil society members and youth groups who joined protests in public squares all around Libya in favor of a more equitable and inclusive electoral law,” said Zahra’ Langhi of the Libyan Women’s Platform for Peace.
A quota of 10% representation for women was in the initial version of the law released in late January, but this provision was subsequently dropped in later versions of the bill which were made public.
The finalized version does not provide for a quota for women, but rather guarantees women’s representation by requiring parties to alternate male and female candidates on their lists. Because 80 seats of the 200-member assembly are allocated to party lists, 40 women will be guaranteed seats in the assembly.
“I would like to congratulate the LWPP for working very hard to achieve this victory for women,” said Hibaaq Osman of Karama. It gives me a great deal of confidence and this is a clear indication that things are moving in the right direction, because what’s good for women is ultimately good for Libya.”
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Feb 9, 2012 09:57
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- Herstory Begins Now
- Aug 5, 2003
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Can't post for 12 hours!
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http://bambuser.com/v/2353586 livestream of Homs.
Small arms fire has been getting louder and louder for the last 30-40 minutes.
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Feb 9, 2012 10:15
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Syria
Live Camera from Homs
More from Danny from Homs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJrhaF6Zuo
Now Lebanon - Syrian Rebels: We want weapons, not outside troops
quote:Rebels inside Syria said Wednesday they need more weapons - not outside boots on the ground - to arm tens of thousands of fighters including regime deserters committed to toppling Bashar al-Assad's "death machine."
In a rare live webcast from undisclosed locations around Damascus and airing in Washington, commanders operating under the Free Syrian Army (FSA) said the United States in particular should harden its policies against Assad and find a way to shuttle guns, rocket launchers and other heavy weapons to rebels.
"The major point is logistical material support. We can do this ourselves, we're not asking for any troops," a commander who identified himself only as Mohammad told some 50 people including reporters and Middle East experts gathered at a national security think tank.
"We want military support. We want supplies," he added. "We have the numbers on our side, we just don't have the weapons."
BBC - Syria crisis: Deadly shelling resumes in Homs
quote:The Syrian army has resumed shelling in Homs killing at least 13 people so far on Thursday, activists say.
With several districts controlled by rebel forces, Syria's third-largest city is a major focus of unrest against President Bashar al-Assad's rule.
Scores have been killed since the army started an assault there last week.
UN chief Ban Ki-moon says said the failure to agree a UN resolution on Syria had encouraged Damascus "to step up its war on its own people".
BBC Radio 4's Today programme has this report from Sirte, Affection for Gaddafi 'undimmed' in Sirte
New York Times - Libya Struggles to Curb Militias as Chaos Grows
Washington Post - Libya issues law for electing national congress to draw constitution, serve as parliament
quote:Libya has finalized a law to govern an election to choose a national assembly to draft a new constitution — a first step to setting up a new government after the ouster of longtime leader Moammar Gadhafi.
The law was issued Wednesday after earlier drafts were revised to accommodate criticism.
The new law determines that the 200-member national congress will include at least 40 women, doubling the number of women in an earlier draft. The body is supposed to be elected before June 23.
The new elected body will manage the country’s affairs for a year and will draft Libya’s new constitution.
Under Gadhafi’s rule, Libya had no working parliament for four decades.
Here's the full law in Arabic
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Feb 9, 2012 10:18
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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quote:China says Syrian opposition delegation has visited
China's foreign ministry has said a Syrian opposition delegation visited the country this week and met a deputy foreign minister, Zhai Jun.
It was the first contact reported by China in the wake of escalating violence in Syria and Beijing's veto in the UN of a draft resolution on the country.
China joined Russia at the weekend to veto the resolution in the security council that would have backed an Arab plan urging Bashar al-Assad to step down after months of worsening bloodshed. The veto has been heavily condemned by western governments.
"China is willing to maintain contacts and communication with relevant Syrian opposition groups," the ministry spokesman Liu Weimin told a daily news briefing.
Beijing has rejected criticism of its veto of the resolution, insisting it is committed to the long-term interests of the Syrian people.
Earlier this week, the Chinese government said it was considering sending an envoy to the Middle East to discuss the crisis in Syria.
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Feb 9, 2012 10:19
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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quote:Syria's Homs bombarded again, Turks push for solution
Armoured reinforcements poured into Homs as President Bashar al-Assad's forces bombarded the Syrian city for a fourth day, opposition sources said on Thursday, worsening the humanitarian situation and prompting a new diplomatic push from Turkey.
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told Reuters before flying to Washington for talks on Syria that Turkey, which once saw Assad as a valuable ally but now wants him out, could no longer stand by and watch.
He said Turkey wanted to host an international meeting to agree ways to end the killing and provide aid.
"It is not enough being an observer," he said. "It is time now to send a strong message to the Syrian people that we are with them," he added, while refusing to be drawn on what kind of action Turkey or its allies would be prepared to consider.
Scores were killed in Homs Wednesday, according to the opposition, drawing comparison with the plight of the city of Benghazi which triggered Western attacks on Libya last year and accelerating a global diplomatic showdown whose outcome is far from clear.
Activists said that at least 40 tanks and 50 infantry fighting vehicles accompanied by 1,000 soldiers were transported from the nearby border with Lebanon and from the coast and deployed in Homs.
Large Sunni neighborhoods that have been the target of the heaviest rocket and mortar bombardment by Alawite-led forces loyal to Assad remained without electricity and water and basic supplies were running low, activists in Homs said.
There was no comment from the Syrian authorities, who have placed tight restrictions on access to the country and it was not possible to verify the reports.
"We have seen in the last 24 hours incursions into neighborhoods such as Khalidiya, Bab Amro and Inshaat. Tanks went in after heavy bombardment and then pulled back," activist Mohammad Hassan told Reuters by satellite phone.
Mazen Adi, a prominent Syrian opposition figure who fled to Paris several weeks ago, said rebels loosely organized under the Free Syrian Army were fighting back and staging hit-and-run guerrilla attacks against loyalist forces in Homs.
"The Free Syrian Army is still managing to hit strategic targets in Homs, such as the secret police headquarters," Adi said.
"The regime cannot keep tanks for long inside opposition neighborhoods because they will be ambushed, and it is retaliating by hysteric bombing that is killing mostly civilians and with mass executions."
He was referring to the reported killing of three unarmed Sunni families in their homes Wednesday by militiamen loyal to Assad and known as 'shabbiha'.
Adi said that unlike a military onslaught on Hama in 1982 that razed large sections of the city and finished off armed resistance to Assad family rule, Homs was a bigger metropolis and rebels still had lots of cover.
The Syrian opposition intensified calls for international intervention to protect civilians. Activist-in-exile Massoud Akko said Turkey and Western countries needed to organize an airlift to Homs and other stricken cities and towns that have borne the brunt of five months of a sustained military crackdown to put down a mass protest movement against Assad's rule.
"What the people of Homs need right now is basic supplies such as medicine and baby food. This could be done by air drops into Homs similar to what the United States did in Iraqi Kurdistan in the 1990s," Akko said.
"It is not enough to say to this regime 'stop the killings', because it won't listen. We are dealing with a system based on political prostitution. The regime is acting as if it is not attacking Homs at all and says the bombardment the whole world is seeing is being done by terrorists."
A statement by the Syrian Revolution General Commission activists' group said friendly countries should call for "an immediate halt to the shelling of cities and residential neighborhoods," establish safe corridors to supply humanitarian assistance to stricken regions and support the Free Syrian Army.
Syria's position at the heart of the Middle East, allied to Iran and home to a powder-keg religious and ethnic mix, means Assad's opponents have strenuously ruled out the kind of military action they took against Gaddafi.
RUSSIAN WRATH
Russia and China, which let the United Nations support the air campaign in Libya, provoked strong condemnation from the United States, European powers and Arab governments when they vetoed a much less interventionist resolution in the Security Council last week that called on Assad to step down.
Moscow sees Assad as a buyer of arms and host to a Soviet-era naval base. For both Russia and China, Syria is also a test case for efforts to resist U.N. encroachment on sovereign governments' freedom to deal with rebels as they see fit.
Campaigning for next month's presidential election that he is certain to win, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who first won the presidency after storming the rebel Russian city of Grozny, said: "A cult of violence has been coming to the fore in international affairs ... This cannot fail to cause concern.
"We of course condemn all violence regardless of its source, but one cannot act like an elephant in a china shop.
"Help them, advise them, limit, for instance, their ability to use weapons but not interfere under any circumstances."
It is unclear what Turkey, a NATO member and rising Muslim, democratic force in the Middle East, could do to bring Moscow into any international initiative alongside those regional and world powers which have sided with the rebels against Assad.
Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, who had described the Russian and Chinese veto at the U.N. as a "fiasco," telephoned outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev Wednesday.
The Kremlin said Medvedev told Erdogan that the search for a solution should continue, including in the Security Council, but that foreign interference was not an option.
Medvedev also spoke with French President Nicolas Sarkozy asking him and other Western countries to avoid "hasty, unilateral moves" toward Syria, the Kremlin said.
Officials in Washington said they hoped to meet soon with international partners to consider how to halt Syria's violence and provide humanitarian aid.
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Feb 9, 2012 10:26
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- Corny
- Feb 18, 2006
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i am scared
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OwlBot 2000 posted:
I can't quite say why, but I feel less and less worried that Israel is going to carry out any major strike, despite all the war-drumming. Anybody else get that feeling that its just more of the same old posturing, and partially an attempt to distract from domestic economic problems?
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!
This, and the fact that every major facet of Israels military is opposed to a military strike, at least at this stage of the game.
edit: On the contrary, Saudi Arabia is very ready for Israel to strike. The Saudis aren't nearly as public or grandiose as Netanyahu or Barak, but they are much more scared of Iran than Israel is.
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Feb 9, 2012 10:46
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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loving Guardian is premoderating my comments now, making it impossible to post, end of an era.
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Feb 9, 2012 11:19
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Good piece on Sirte:
quote:Should Libya rebuild Gaddafi hometown of Sirte?
The final battle for Muammar Gaddafi's home-town last October was brutal and drawn-out.
Hundreds died on both sides, and it is hard to find a building undamaged by bullets or shells. Occasionally you see grotesquely twisted concrete structures, barely recognisable now, that were blown apart by Nato bombs.
But the money Col Gaddafi lavished on Sirte is also evident; the neat, whitewashed housing estates, the grand avenues and parks, and the imposing ministries and conference centres he built in his attempt to turn what had once been a little fishing village into a showcase capital city.
So what should happen to Sirte in the new Libya? There is no consensus yet.
Gaddafi 'still in our hearts'
The transitional government is promising to rebuild it, although this is unlikely to be on the grandiose scale of the Gaddafi era.
"All the other town councils agree that Sirte should be the priority for rebuilding," says Mohammed Kablan, the head of the new local administration.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote
Nothing has changed - just a different flag they put on our schoolbooks"”
End Quote Sirte schoolgirl
"Everybody feels sympathy for Sirte."
He said around 60% of the town's inhabitants had come back, so repairing housing, schools and utilities was an urgent need.
At the Taleah al-Nasser school in District 2, the most battle-scarred part of Sirte, there are holes in the walls made by rockets; the whiteboards are peppered with bullet-holes.
They start the day with military-style exercises in the playground, like any other Libyan school.
When it comes to singing the new national anthem though, they can only find a handful of pupils able to sing it.
This is actually an old anthem, restored to celebrate the anti-Gaddafi revolution, and most of the children come from families who remain defiantly loyal to the former ruler.
"He is still in our hearts," one of the teachers told me.
'Bad, sad and angry'
You hear that a lot in Sirte. I asked the older pupils what they thought of the changes in their country. Most were too nervous to say.
But one girl spoke up. "What happened in our town is a disaster," she said.
"They attacked us in our houses and looted them, they destroyed everything."
She dismissed the revolution. "Nothing has changed," she said, "just a different flag they put on our schoolbooks."
Her teacher, Shifa Hassan, has noticed what effect the defeat of Sirte has had on its inhabitants.
"The psychology of people is very bad," she said. "They are very sad, very angry and very aggressive."
Another teacher at the school started shouting, in tears, about the deaths of six family members during the fighting. She blamed Nato.
Everyone at the school complained about being abandoned by the new government.
map
There is no running water, and many of the houses in District 2 are uninhabitable. The needs are obvious.
But can the government make a town that identifies itself so strongly with Col Gaddafi a priority?
There is a risk of an angry backlash from other towns like Misrata, which also suffered extensive damage, and fought to bring the Gaddafi dictatorship down.
I have met many people in Misrata who believe Sirte should be wiped off the map.
Gaddafi stain
Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abushagur insists Sirte will get fair treatment.
"It's our obligation to provide services for them," he said. "We are one country, one people and we must make sure that we learn how to live together again."
He said the government had already contracted companies to build pre-fabricated schools for Sirte.
With oil production almost back to normal, there should certainly be plenty of funds for reconstruction throughout Libya.
They will have to decide what to do with the outsized ministry buildings and other prestige Gaddafi projects disproportionate to a population of around 70,000.
They will also have to decide what, if anything, will be left of Gaddafi's imprint on his birthplace.
His home, surrounded by a sprawling farm on the edge of Sirte, lies in ruins.
It is deceptively peaceful now, the ground carpeted with early spring flowers.
The buckled walls and gaping holes in the ceiling are mute testimony to the ferocity of the bombardment of this, the nerve-centre of Gaddafi's eccentric and violent regime.
You can wander through the labyrinth of rooms, and down into the network of concrete bunkers under the house, blown open by Nato bombs.
I met Abdul Salim there - unusually for a Sirte resident, someone glad to see Gaddafi gone. But he too complained of the new government's neglect.
"The problem now [is] nobody talks about Sirte, nobody visits," he said.
"The Transitional Council [leader] Mr Abdul Jalil, he should have spoken to Libya from Sirte after Gaddafi had gone, to send a message that there is now no difference between cities."
But its peculiar history makes Sirte different in the eyes of most Libyans. The stain of being favoured by Gaddafi for so long will be hard to rub off.
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Feb 9, 2012 13:46
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Martin Chulov is in Syria, in the countryside outside of Homs, and had this audio report. What's interesting is he describes the FSA being very active in the countryside outside of Homs, and a situation that's rapidly becoming a civil war, if it isn't already.
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Feb 9, 2012 14:45
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's the text from his audio report:
quote: quote: Much of the countryside in the lead up to Homs has been taken by the Free Syrian Army for now, and we can move around. But as we get closer to Homs there is a lot more fighting. There is gunfire all around, rockets are landing.
Casualties have been streaming out of Homs into various clinics. We've been to a clinic this morning. Four people were bought in dead another couple died when they got there.
It is very tense, there is a lot of gunfire, and there's a lot of shelling. It's two-way gunfight going on or so it would seem. There's certainly mortar fire coming in from regime forces and there seems to be some gunfire coming back. We did see a resupply [for rebels] come in of very old mortar tubes. There is some attempt to set up a defensive perimeter or a fight back. But it is by and large one sided.
The regime is not looking to take ground at the moment. It is softening up Baba Amr and al-Khaldiyeh [districts in Homs], and other places nearby, with what appears to be a more heavy rocket round today and some artillery. Today they have stepped it up a little.
quote: Very much so. The Free Syrian Army is able to hold some territory at this point. They do have the stated intent to overthrow the regime, they are getting resupplied, and their numbers are steadily building. It has a grim foreboding feeling of a place that is already in the midst of a civil war.
The FSA does hold some strategic parts, especially near some border crossings from Turkey and Lebanon. The fact that it has held ground does show that it has a resilience. They are looking to consolidate those gains and advance on the regime once this shelling stops.
Most of them [the rebel fighters] aren't sleeping. All those we've spoken to today looked traumatised and looked like people very much fighting a war. It is a very grim focus.
Alex Crawford of Sky News has snuck into Syria, you can watch her report here.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:10
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- az jan jananam
- Sep 6, 2011
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HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
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I didn't see an English article posted about it, but in another sign of how splintered the Syrian opposition is, the BBC interviewed FSA commander Riad al-As'ad a few days ago and he said that the SNC stands "against the people", that there is no real coordination between the two bodies, and that they do not offer any support for the FSA except words.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:32
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/02/09/193600.html
Now he's really hosed. Al-Arabiya is reporting that Malaysia is going to extradite Hamza Kashgari, who had to flee Saudi Arabia after making some inappropriate comments on the prophet.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:35
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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This video apparently shows activists in Homs using carrier pigeons to send messages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdYJniXq8bo
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Feb 9, 2012 15:38
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- Golbez
- Oct 9, 2002
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1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
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re Hamza: it's stuff like this shows how truly in the dark ages many Muslim nations are. The last time you could hide domestic woes by distracting the people with religion in the Christian world was pretty much, what, pre-Renaissance? And now we have this? The people in Saudi Arabia, if we are to take this at face value, are far, far more angry about a few tweets than anything else wrong in their country? It's either a paradise or they're easily used by the government.
What's different in the Muslim nations that don't fall into this trap? Like Turkey, is it because it's officially secular?
Golbez fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Feb 9, 2012
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Feb 9, 2012 15:40
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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And this one apparently shows the FSA attacking a Syrian army checkpoint in the Deir Be'albah area of Homs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOiwaUhuuu4
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Feb 9, 2012 15:40
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- Al-Saqr
- Nov 11, 2007
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One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
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Golbez posted:
re Hamza: It is very tempting to say things about Islam, Muslims, and their governments, but I fear it would only create a flame war and this is not D&D [yet].
So, I will simply respond with: What utter hogshit.
You could always just go with the simpler and correct option of blaming this on an oppressive government looking for distractions. no need to bring religion and people into this.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:47
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- az jan jananam
- Sep 6, 2011
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HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
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Al-Saqr posted:
You could always just go with the simpler and correct option of blaming this on an oppressive government looking for distractions. no need to bring religion and people into this.
Do you imagine a lot of people in Saudi oppose the sentence? (I'm not going to start a debate, just asking an openended question since you would know better)
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Feb 9, 2012 15:49
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- Golbez
- Oct 9, 2002
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1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
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Al-Saqr posted:
You could always just go with the simpler and correct option of blaming this on an oppressive government looking for distractions. no need to bring religion and people into this.
I edited my post to elaborate, but I'll run with this. This tactic would not work if the people didn't go along with it, and, at least at this time in world history, Islam seems to be the choice religion for this kind of insanity.
Of course, they're still in their own dark ages mainly because their governments want to keep them there. But change also starts at home.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:50
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- Al-Saqr
- Nov 11, 2007
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One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
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az jan jananam posted:
Do you imagine a lot of people in Saudi oppose the sentence?
I didnt measure public opinion, but beyond saudi people's disagreement with this guy's comments, in my opinion it's clear that the sheer viciousness that the religious establishment and their government employers are seizing this as an opportunity to paint themselves as protectors of the faith while failing in all other aspects of public governance such as making sure people dont die when it rains in a major city.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:53
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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May 10, 2024 12:25
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- Svartvit
- Jun 18, 2005
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al-Qabila samaa Bahth
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Golbez posted:
re Hamza: it's stuff like this shows how truly in the dark ages many Muslim nations are. The last time you could hide domestic woes by distracting the people with religion in the Christian world was pretty much, what, pre-Renaissance? And now we have this? The people in Saudi Arabia, if we are to take this at face value, are far, far more angry about a few tweets than anything else wrong in their country? It's either a paradise or they're easily used by the government.
What's different in the Muslim nations that don't fall into this trap? Like Turkey, is it because it's officially secular?
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. I see that poo poo in a lot of Christian places, especially in southern Europe, Africa, Eastern/Central Europe and the Americas including U.S.A. where a load of Christian fundamentalists are rallying for all kinds of backwards projects used by Republican candidates in order to avoid the things that really is wrong in America. Clearly, religion has a greater part in the Middle East than in the West, but you have to watch what you're saying.
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Feb 9, 2012 15:58
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Feb 9, 2012 02:27
