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Happy Hat posted:I'm sure that y'all have really bic penises,
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Mar 3, 2012 03:55
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quote:Oh and read this to see what it's like to work in order fulfillment from one of those online places. Queue the Rich People Problems thread. "Waaaaa! I have to work somewhat hard in somewhat mediocre conditions without feeling a real sense of personal growth! Life should not be this hard." Literally, 99% of history would kill for these problems. We take it for granted that these conditions should exist but they have only existed for something like 1/2 of 1/2 of 1% of the time that man has existed. Even today, they only exist for maybe 25% of the population. You are working, you can eat, you have health care, you have comfortable shoes (maybe 1/50 of 1% of mankind has had that), modern dentistry (again, maybe 1/50 of 1%) and all you can do is gripe. Maybe that attitude is what keeps you at the bottom of the ladder. Aimed at the author and people who think like her, not the poster.
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Mar 3, 2012 04:24
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i shoot friendlies posted:You are working, you can eat, you have health care, you have comfortable shoes (maybe 1/50 of 1% of mankind has had that), modern dentistry (again, maybe 1/50 of 1%)
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Mar 3, 2012 04:40
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i shoot friendlies posted:Queue the Rich People Problems thread. "Waaaaa! I have to work somewhat hard in somewhat mediocre conditions without feeling a real sense of personal growth! Life should not be this hard." Are there no prisons? No workhouses? Harumph!
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Mar 3, 2012 04:47
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Something something something I suck Ayn Rand's dick. gently caress the people with lovely working conditions in this country, they should have bootstrapped themselves up into the middle class.  Am I doing this right? 
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Mar 3, 2012 05:14
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bunnielab, i shoot friendlies, you both have horrifying brain opinions about how people should be treated.
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Mar 3, 2012 05:21
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I try to treat others in as kinda a manner as it can. I just don't think I have the right to hold anyone else to any standard greater then "not willfully hurting others". Pretty much the history of everyone everywhere doesn't really encourage the idea that people are any good at all.
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Mar 3, 2012 06:00
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Casu Marzu posted:Something something something I suck Ayn Rand's dick. gently caress the people with lovely working conditions in this country, they should have bootstrapped themselves up into the middle class. Ayn Rand is a poor writer and rather insufferable. I'm more of a Milton Friedman man. Denying reality does not change reality, it just changes your participation in it. We have extraordinary conditions in these United States. Probably more freedom and choice than any other civilization in history. Despite that, many people can only complain and bellyache. If you cannot succeed right now in this society, you would be a goner in any other time and any other society. If you are drowning now, name a society where you have been able to swim.
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Mar 3, 2012 06:07
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Totally. I mean two wrongs don't make a right, but at least it's better than three wrongs, right? Or like twenty wrongs. I think twenty wrongs is about the historical average. Like with the I dunno like the Visigoths or something, which I think are pretty representative. So if you don't have like twenty, thirty wrongs I don't see what you're even loving complaining about. I mean unless they're rounding up your entire family and putting them in a death camp and burning down your house and killing your dog and raping your women then it's not that bad. Purely from a historical perspective. You can argue with me but you can't argue with history.
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Mar 3, 2012 06:35
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No, you are doing it wrong. What you need to say is, "stop searching for pay without work. It is nothing but theft. Put your ingenuity into finding a way you can help someone, and sell your services to him. Yeah, I worked 6 years in various canneries, eventually I couldn't stand it any more and decided to get a real job. Then I bounced around and wound up in a better paying job that was essentially the cannery with fewer slimy rotten beans and higher union dues. Working dead-end jobs with no hope of advancement in injurious conditions used to be a sort of goal for me. Then I started trying for better jobs, eh? Most employers just want someone who can show up on time. The rest want skills. In any case they want proof or assurances that you can supply their needs, and bootstrapping is one way to do it. I like Friedman's approach to taxation. Other than that he is the neo-con of libertarians. Rule .303 fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Mar 3, 2012 |
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Mar 3, 2012 06:42
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Yeah, your problems are different from mine. From this I conclude they're probably due to your not trying. Or possibly because you are of weak moral character. Because pretty much whenever I try something it works out and since everyone is in more or less the same situation as I am,
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Mar 3, 2012 06:50
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Surrender is always an option, submission as well. Refusing to act because you could be wrong is as damaging as doing something to spite someone who differs with your opinion. You should watch out for that strain of intolerance, though.
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Mar 3, 2012 06:55
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gently caress history, right now I am betting a huge majority of the people in the world would love a nice indoor packing warehouse job. If showing up on time and working quickly is too hard for some maybe they should gratefully step aside and let some other unemployed guy have a chance. I really have had a ton of dealings with unskilled labor people and it is amazing t he level of micro management it takes to keep things going well. I have driven guys to their PO meetings, given them a ton of slack when life poo poo poops up, and done everything I can to help them do well. But there will come a point where if you become too much trouble to manage you are going to be replaced.
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Mar 3, 2012 07:02
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Rule .303 posted:Surrender is always an option, submission as well. Refusing to act because you could be wrong is as damaging as doing something to spite someone who differs with your opinion.
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Mar 3, 2012 07:03
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So what is the solution? Shoot the bankers? Put farmworkers in boardrooms? Will they be as happy as you think they will be? Will they make the banks run on time? Maybe we should shoot the bankers and put you in the boardroom, wouldn't you be better running a bank than an illegal working in a peach orchard? Is the skillset the same for a farm laborer and a banker? Is mine the same as yours? Could I do your job without proper training? Can you pick peaches at piece rate and earn above minimum wage? If you can't should you be retained by the farmer or let go in favor of the guy who can? Does social justice mean equal rules for all or special rules for a selected few? Did you ever hear Che's last joke? He was nabbed by the Bolivian army and tied up in a shack while they got final permission to shoot him or give him to the Americans. While this was going on, he was asked about his role in the Cuban revolution, and Che made some comment about Cuba's poverty. When asked how Che became involved in Cuba's national economy, he said that Fidel had come in to a meeting one day and asked who was a good economist, and he thought Fidel said good communist and raised his hand.
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Mar 3, 2012 07:27
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Rule .303 posted:So what is the solution?
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Mar 3, 2012 08:40
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Wroughtirony posted:Fun fact- if you're fired, you are ineligible for unemployment. In California at least it's pretty much the opposite: if you quit your job you can't claim unemployment but if you're fired they pretty much have to prove they fired you for breaking the law to deny you unemployment.
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Mar 3, 2012 08:46
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Someone on Facebook was talking about boycotting amazon because of that article. They're really going to be pissed when they find out where all their clothes, electronics, and food comes from. Edit: not to say that it's not a legitimate complaint. Just weird to single out amazon for treating folks on the bottom of the totem pole lovely. wafflesnsegways fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Mar 3, 2012 |
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Mar 3, 2012 09:06
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If people are poor it's their own drat fault, so if their desperation gets exploited it's ok, because they brought it on themselves and deserve it.
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Mar 3, 2012 10:28
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i shoot friendlies posted:. We have extraordinary conditions in these United States. Probably more freedom and choice than any other civilization in history. . This is highly provocative
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Mar 3, 2012 11:10
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Happy Hat posted:This is highly provocative SubG posted:Not being a prick about other people's problems seems like a start. therattle fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 3, 2012 |
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Mar 3, 2012 12:08
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Wow it's like D&D from 2007 decided to come hang out in this thread. Now do the one about prisoners' rights.
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Mar 3, 2012 13:09
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gently caress it let's do circumcision chat. I'm glad my parents didn't mutilate my dick when I was born, how does it feel you loving frankencocks.
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Mar 3, 2012 13:10
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So, after cleaning all the windows, disinfecting the terrazzo in the bathroom and polishing the mirrors, I made a box. It's filled with all the kitchen poo poo I don't use. I see four whisks, two ladles, seven wooden spoons, 2 cutting boards, a grill pan, two colanders, a bamboo steamer, a knife or two, a set of prissy little too-thin porcelain tea cups, tons of unitaskers of different types and a partridge in a pear tree. I put today's date on the box. Everything that's still in it in 3 months' time will be put to pasture. It's oddly liberating - I managed to clear out two entire drawers and three cupboard shelves. I strongly recommend it if you are a kitchen gear hoarder like me (although I guess Anoia, Goddess of Things That Get Stuck in Drawers, will be leaving the household soon since there won't be many prayers spoken to her from now on.)
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Mar 3, 2012 13:37
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I will go do the same in the basement - you have inspired me Dane!
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Mar 3, 2012 14:04
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And I shall clear the sex toys chest!
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Mar 3, 2012 14:12
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Now that I'm back in the third world all I want to do is go to my gourmet grocery store and get a bunch of serrano ham and eat it on the couch while drinking red wine and whiskey while watching old episodes of frasier. I also remember why I hate dubai every loving time I go through it.
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Mar 3, 2012 14:54
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Kenning posted:gently caress it let's do circumcision chat. I was pretty bummed about it, but then I got some NWS implants NWS to make up for it.
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Mar 3, 2012 17:38
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SubG posted:Not being a prick about other people's problems seems like a start. Well, I was tempted to edit that down to 4 words but that would be childish and dishonest. therattle posted:Hey, you can grow up poor and black in the ghetto and go to a lovely public school and have no health coverage, but you've got [i]choice and freedom[i/]! Look how many things there are that you can own or do! (In theory at least, if not in practise). Choice and freedom without the means to take advantage of them are worthless. As for why Mother Jones has a hard-on for Amazon? Because it is non-union. The safety conditions at canneries are worse, and the processing centers for the Post Office are more stressful, but they are firmly Teamster, so there "is a path available for correction".
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Mar 3, 2012 18:11
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Kenning posted:gently caress it let's do circumcision chat. Most men my age have those scars. I think its something to do with cleanliness or differentiating them from savages with bones in their noses and facial scars. So, how're your tats? :volley:
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Mar 3, 2012 18:16
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It is purely cultural. And you must mean most men in those united states, right?
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Mar 3, 2012 18:22
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Most men my age. It was something you did as a desired procedure for newborns. There are fashions in this sort of thing, some cultures singed the temples with wisps of burning raw wool to avoid convulsions, some had the infants breathe the fumes of boiling lead to avoid colic, my generation was circumsized for cleanliness - remember that the doctors that set policy and procedures were either WW I or WWII vets or taught by them and they had a serious issue with cleanliness in harsh conditions. If there had been a procedure for avoiding trench-foot they would have done that too.
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Mar 3, 2012 18:34
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Aside from feeling physically ill at the way some folk view their fellow humans, what else should I be reading? It never occurred to me that the online fulfilment happens in such high-stress conditions. I would have thought it was automated or something. I don't know /why/ I thought this, but there you go.
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Mar 3, 2012 20:03
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dino. posted:Aside from feeling physically ill at the way some folk view their fellow humans, what else should I be reading? It never occurred to me that the online fulfilment happens in such high-stress conditions. I would have thought it was automated or something. I don't know /why/ I thought this, but there you go. Um, there are like millions of jobs that are super loving stressful, this is why it is called "work" and one has to be paid in order to do it. Where are these "everything is chill, just get it done when you can" factories you guys seem to know about?
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Mar 3, 2012 21:50
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bunnielab posted:Um, there are like millions of jobs that are super loving stressful, this is why it is called "work" and one has to be paid in order to do it. Where are these "everything is chill, just get it done when you can" factories you guys seem to know about? But can we agree that renumeration should not just be gauged by perceived societal worth (*cough* advertising *cough* bankers *cough*) but also to some extent by the physical strain, the work puts on the body? I've worked factory jobs - they were lovely and low paying, but they were nowhere near as physically demanding as those reported on in the linked article. I'm not saying that all labor should be coddled or indeed that unionization is always for the good, but I do find that setting impossible goals for the workers, exploiting temp rules and paying people low wages (and skirting health insurance issues) for jobs with high risk of physical damage is loathsome. In my opinion, any business owes loyalty not only to its shareholders, but also to the workers who generate the profit for said shareholders - whether they pack poo poo into boxes, sow buttons on polo shirts or design innovative ad campaigns for beer companies.
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Mar 3, 2012 22:13
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bunnielab posted:Um, there are like millions of jobs that are super loving stressful, this is why it is called "work" and one has to be paid in order to do it. Where are these "everything is chill, just get it done when you can" factories you guys seem to know about? Or is, I dunno, the civil rights situation in the deep South circa the start of the Twentieth Century okay, because it was so common and, hey, things could be worse since actual literal slavery was illegal?
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Mar 3, 2012 22:35
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SubG posted:`It's common, and therefore okay,' isn't really an argument. Labor unions in the rust belt were totally unnecessary too. They should have just been glad that Ford and GM were working them to death.
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Mar 3, 2012 23:44
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Please explain your plan for Happiness for everyone and no yelling fun time. I'm sure there is some utopian plan that hasn't been tried yet. Being poor has always sucked but in general it sucks less now. The entirety of human history argues against the end of a have/have not system and until someone figures out a way to change it could be said that having to work for $11 an hour in a warehouse in a first world country really aint that bad.
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Mar 4, 2012 00:17
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bunnielab posted:Please explain your plan for Happiness for everyone and no yelling fun time. I'm sure there is some utopian plan that hasn't been tried yet. No one's arguing that they have a great solution that can be implemented immediately, or that things aren't vastly better than they were in the past. But improvement in working conditions happened because people were not content with the status quo; you seem to be arguing that it's pointless to get upset and work towards change unless you can do it all in one go. That's a really short-sighted and frankly dumb position. "It's better than it was before" is a ridiculous justification for not wanting things to improve further.
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Mar 4, 2012 00:21
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pnumoman posted:No one's arguing that they have a great solution that can be implemented immediately, or that things aren't vastly better than they were in the past. But improvement in working conditions happened because people were not content with the status quo; you seem to be arguing that it's pointless to get upset and work towards change unless you can do it all in one go. That's a really short-sighted and frankly dumb position. Ok, so how, in this specific situation, can you make things better while still letting a company offer near instantaneous shipping of so much stuff sold so cheaply? If you pay the workers more or slow stuff down, the business model the created the jobs goes away. The conditions in that articular are a far cry from actual exploitative working conditions and really not that bad considering the job takes no real skill other then showing up on time and walking fast?
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Mar 4, 2012 00:42
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