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^^ Its a similar process I think. Fun part is when she was reading the Dark Prophecy, 'theres got to be something wrong with someone who calls words written in human blood "interesting"'. So many clues, and yet they all fail to show her essential nature.
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Mar 4, 2012 10:33
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Two Finger posted:Yeah. Also the whole gimpy leg thing never really sat right with me since they fight with swords known to kill just from the slightest scratch. What, did it knee him in the hip or something? You're not imagining it, but they got around that by using the Oath Road to release the Black Ajah oaths and then restate the regular ones
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Mar 4, 2012 17:29
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Prison Warden posted:Yeah, keeping stuff spoiler tagged is vital here. I'm sure there are quite a few people here reading the series for the first time, going by all the posts in the thread. It also helps if you let people know what the content of your spoilers are, such as warning people in this case that "this relates to a information involving the character Verin that won't be explicitly revealed until book 12, The Gathering Storm." In that same vein (i.e. what I typed for Prison Warden's spoiler applies to my own), on my second read-through, I was trying way too hard to find evidence of Verin being black ajah. At one point she invites/orders Egwene to meet with her in her room in the Tower and discusses a paradox without having to use vague language or double-talk of any sort. I don't know if that circumvents the whole "no lying" oath since both opposing statements are simultaneously true, but it makes matters worse when she tells Egwene "that has nothing to do with this," and, when Egwene questions her further, she responds that "that has everything to do with this." (Note that the two statements are absolutely separate from each other and may have been phrased in such a way to gently caress with people who suspected how black ajah worked that early and considered Verin a possible member of said group)
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Mar 4, 2012 17:40
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veekie posted:^^ (Spoilers for Book 12) That was explained easily enough by her being Brown Ajah. Moiraine had already thought that some Browns were so unworldly that they didn't think anything outside a book written 500 years ago could actually be important. She's exaggerating a bit, as most Aes Sedai seem prone to do when thinking of sisters from other ajahs, but Verin does fit the description better than a lot of Browns.
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Mar 5, 2012 00:47
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Book 13: Can people start putting the book number before the tags of the book they're spoiling when using spoiler tags, otherwise there is no point.. Anyway, wasn't it implied from moraine that one of the two sisters (verin or the other one) in the Two Rivers, when Perin was there, is black ajah?
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Mar 5, 2012 02:20
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Lascivious Sloth posted:Book 13: Can people start putting the book number before the tags of the book they're spoiling when using spoiler tags, otherwise there is no point.. Book 5 and later: She says in her letter that Rand should be as suspicious of Verin as he is of Alviarin, both of whom are Black. However, that comes immediately after her telling him not to trust any woman who has at that time earned the shawl. It's meant as a warning that there's no difference between an Aes Sedai Rand knows and thinks he can trust and any other sister. There's no indication that Moiraine knows either of them is Black.
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Mar 5, 2012 09:28
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With all the future book talk this thread is starting to look like an SCP page  That being said, I'm almost caught up. Just finished Great Hunt, and I'm about to burn through TDR tomorrow.Spoilers aside, I'm glad I found this thread. I hadn't read any of these since I was a teenager, and I had forgotten how much I enjoyed them.
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Mar 5, 2012 09:43
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I just finished this weeks reading. Whoever was talking about Mat earlier was right - he does something badass in every chapter. I love how he puts an "everyman" perspective into the book. Even when he gets his specialness, it doesn't really make him a super character like Channeling or being a wolf-talk-mcgee.
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Mar 5, 2012 17:04
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Mentioning the specific book for spoilers is a good idea, I suppose. I was trying to avoid drawing attention back to the whole Verin thing, but I guess the cat is out of the bag anyways It's that time again! With updated stats on the first book even! Wheel of Time cliché corner! Eye of The World Braids Tugged: 1 Blood and Ashes!: 35 Woolhead: 6 T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 2 Bad case of the Sniff-les: 10 Dresses creased, needed smoothing: 0 Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0 ------------- The Great Hunt Braids Tugged: 0 Blood and Ashes!: 6 Woolhead: 8 T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 0 Bad case of the Sniff-les: 14 The invention of the ironing board cannot come quick enough for all these rumply clothes: 6 Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0 ------------- Variance: Braids Tugged: -1 Blood and Ashes!: -29 Woolhead: +2 T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: -2 Bad case of the Sniff-les: +4 Dresses creased, needed smoothing: +6 Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: -- ------------- Total: Books Finished: 2 Braids Tugged: 1 Blood and Ashes!: 41 Woolhead: 14 T'hus sp'a'ke Ma'trim Ca'uth'on: 2 Bad case of the Sniff-les: 24 Dresses creased, needed smoothing: 0 Fold those arms. Accentuate that bosom: 0 Some of the more famous clichés aren't in full force yet, or havent even come up! Fear not, the smoothing, braid tugging and arm folding seems to be making a fair showing in book 3 so far. And Mat has perspectives now, so his old tongue should be showing strong. And with Mat perspectives we can add Mat's catchphrase to the list! Exciting times ahead, peeps!
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Mar 5, 2012 17:27
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The WoT idioms pick up full steam here on out. I'm only 30% through TDR and Nynaeve has already been tugging her braid faster than the hand gyrations of a teenager with a fast internet connection. I can only surmise there is some sort of flu pandemic, as well, from the amount of sniffing. This makes a degree of sense too with how pervasive shivering is, even when it's not cold.
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Mar 5, 2012 18:43
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I'd forgotten most of the chapters where the Supergirls travel south to Tear. Holy crap do they all act bitchy to each other most of the time. Also where the gently caress did Nynaeve learn to Balefire somebody out of the blue?  Though I guess this is the first of many many things she will rediscover how to channel before her story arc is done.
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Mar 5, 2012 20:23
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Cartoon Man posted:I'd forgotten most of the chapters where the Supergirls travel south to Tear. Holy crap do they all act bitchy to each other most of the time. Also where the gently caress did Nynaeve learn to Balefire somebody out of the blue? Welcome to the female characters in the Wheel of Time! Only through bitching and passive-aggressiveness can women ever achieve anything, according to RJ Book 5/6 spoilers: A lot of channelers start to do this as the series goes on, where they just pull new weaves seemingly out of their rear end. The difference in ability between the weaker and stronger channellers is kinda ridiculous, weaker ones can struggle to pick up simple things, while the stronger ones just invent 15 new weaves that they never even dreamed of in the Age of Legends, on raw instinct. Nynaeve and Rand do it the most, though since Rand doesn't have a teacher everything he is doing with the one power until book 5 is this, I guess. At least Rand kinda has an excuse for doing this, since he begins actively being taught weaves by his previous life, who was the leader/ most powerful of the Aes Sedai back then. The other main example I can think of is Aviendha discovering how to travel through sheer tsundere-ness. Basically, it's really no surprise that the Forsaken think the modern Aes Sedai are all terrible at their jobs.
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Mar 5, 2012 21:42
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Concerning the cliche tally, Book 4 or 5 (?) Is this when we should start counting how many times Mat remembers dying? Or could that be folded into something else?
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Mar 5, 2012 21:45
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Prison Warden posted:Aviendha discovering how to travel through sheer tsundere-ness. That and the Aiel channellers who apparently figured out through sheer force of will how to un-weave poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2012 00:06
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 The Wheel of Time, Book 3 - The Dragon Reborn - Chapters 36 - 47I know this seems like only a short week, but it'll move us ahead 20%, and leave 20% next week to finish to book. Read it up, suckas.
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Mar 6, 2012 03:53
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Thomchat: Anyone got any comments or theories on Thom? I love his character, but Lan has a pretty good head on his shoulders and that thing he said about not trusting him has always kinda stuck with me.
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Mar 6, 2012 03:58
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Book 1: I got the feeling that Thom was the maybe bag-guy maybe good-guy character that was a mystery, and a mystery that was resolved when Thom proved himself as a rogue with a good but heavy heart.
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Mar 6, 2012 04:09
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Two Finger posted:Thomchat: It probably has to do with Thom's outlander (i.e. more knowledgeable than Emond's Fielders) familiarity to what Moiraine is in the first book coupled with his aloofness, ability with Daes Dae'mar, and disdain for Aes Sedai. It's explained later why, exactly, he has issue with Aes Sedai, which may be a way of wrapping up the plot thread of why Lan may have mistrusted him in the first place. Maybe not, but that's my take on it. Further Thom related stuff, I really like the part where he muses on the Myths that existed before the Age of Legends with Elayne. I hope I'm being vague enough to not need spoilers, but its funny how he considers his own possible role in historical legend in regards to his personality and abilities and very nearly guesses it exactly right. For those who know what I'm talking about and have therefor read that far: Thom Merrilin aka Merlin. A gleeman who is supremely knowledgeable and teaches Rand the basics in the art of of being a schemer and ruler. He's an acrobat, juggler, fire-eater, philosopher, musician, and (as far as knives are concerned) talented in sleight-of-hand. He muses on his fire juggling/eating as being interpreted as fire breathing and his efforts with helping Rand as raising up a King. He aids Rand in/after pulling the "sword that isn't a sword" from the "stone of Tear." The parallels are obvious, and it's amusing that Thom's character basically figures it out as/before it happens. Just as an aside, the random words associated with the customs, crops, and products of the various cultures really irritate me. Some of them are obvious via description, while others are half-assed word rearrangements. The biggest offenders, in my opinion, are kaf coffee, a la caffeine drink, oosqaui whiskey, and the especially egregious zemai corn or maize, with the "ze" placed at the front of the loving word.
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Mar 6, 2012 06:27
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I'll start up with this. Not sure if I can catch up as I'm a slow reader but, hey, who knows.
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Mar 6, 2012 07:32
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^^^ Good luck. If you've got all the books presently on hand, there's a good chance you'll outrace the thread in a matter of weeks/months. It's way too easy to get caught up in the story compared to the pace of the thread.
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Mar 6, 2012 08:46
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Aafter posted:I'll start up with this. Not sure if I can catch up as I'm a slow reader but, hey, who knows. Dont be afraid to post your thoughts/questions on book 1 as you read it.
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Mar 6, 2012 12:18
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I'm behind the thread but I'm working through The Great Hunt and the whole thing with Rand and 'Lady Selene' makes so much more sense on a second read. I get what's going on, what she's talking about and why Rand acts so strange as soon as she shows up. In fact just knowing who characters are and what their motivations turn into has helped a lot on this reread, I guess I just wasn't paying much attention last time around which was probably 2005 at this point.
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Mar 6, 2012 13:37
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Why is Elayne still as good as Egwene with the Power in TDR? Nynaeve is just super strong and a fast learner, and Egwene has the benefit of her experiences as a damane, but Elayne has neither and should still be garbage. They'd been traveling with Verin since the end of TGH and prior to that they'd been hiding out in Falme so I'm not sure when or how Elayne would have learnt any new tricks. Yeah, I know, it's pedantic, but these things are noticable when you're reading through the books quickly. The other thing that stuck out being Verin's age making no sense, since she has grey in her hair but was a novice with Siuan, and Siuan was only in her 40s in Eye of the World.
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Mar 6, 2012 17:55
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Neurosis posted:The other thing that stuck out being Verin's age making no sense, since she has grey in her hair but was a novice with Siuan, and Siuan was only in her 40s in Eye of the World. I don't think that's right... It's been a while since I read the books, but isn't Verin one of the oldest living Aes Sedai?
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Mar 6, 2012 18:06
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Ithaqua posted:I don't think that's right... It's been a while since I read the books, but isn't Verin one of the oldest living Aes Sedai? In Book 2 Siuan talks about Verin having the cooks leave out sweets when they were both novices. Edit: Never mind, it just says Verin had them leave them out, not that they were novices together. Although that hardly seems in character for an Aes Sedai which is why I presumed it was while they were novices.
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Mar 6, 2012 18:07
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Neurosis posted:Yeah, I know, it's pedantic, but these things are noticable when you're reading through the books quickly. The other thing that stuck out being Verin's age making no sense, since she has grey in her hair but was a novice with Siuan, and Siuan was only in her 40s in Eye of the World. Verin wasn't a novice with Siuan  Moirane specifically remembers that she used to order the cooks to leave sweets out for her and Suian when they were novices.
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Mar 6, 2012 18:08
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Yeah, as I said above, I just assumed it because it seems that Aes Sedai taking any interest in novices is kind of unusual, and a Brown sister would be one of the least likely to do so.
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Mar 6, 2012 18:10
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Ithaqua posted:I don't think that's right... It's been a while since I read the books, but isn't Verin one of the oldest living Aes Sedai? That claim is made at one point, I believe, but she's just shy of 150 when the story begins. That would put her well down on the Namelle sisters and Romanda, and only just over half as old as Cadsuane. I think we'll have to write it off to retcon by authorial fiat. Edit: Aes Sedai are guided to their Ajah long before they're raised to the shawl. In the case of novices as strong as Siuan and Leane - both of whom were near the top of the ladder pre-stilling - it isn't unreasonable to assume someone would have an interest in starting the process before their Accepted test. Jedit fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 7, 2012 |
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Mar 6, 2012 19:06
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A Terrible Person posted:Just as an aside, the random words associated with the customs, crops, and products of the various cultures really irritate me. Some of them are obvious via description, while others are half-assed word rearrangements. The biggest offenders, in my opinion, are kaf coffee, a la caffeine drink, oosqaui whiskey, and the especially egregious zemai corn or maize, with the "ze" placed at the front of the loving word.
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Mar 7, 2012 00:13
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Holy crap, Elayne walked across the room and just bitch-slaped Egwene across the face.  drat I knew the supergirls got catty, but I'd forgotten it was this bad back in these early books.
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Mar 7, 2012 01:44
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List of non-catty women in WoT: Min (sometimes) Birgitte I enjoyed it when Egwene tried to bully Rand with saidir in the dreamworld and Rand just shook it off and laughed.
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Mar 7, 2012 11:26
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Neurosis posted:List of non-catty women in WoT: TGS spoilers, I think? It's even better when Perrin does it, because he treats her like such a kid and she just gets SO MAD about it. Then Perrin slices Balefire in half, does a  and wanders off to be awesome somewhere else.
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Mar 7, 2012 19:25
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Antioch posted:TGS spoilers, I think? ToM actually, Perrin is more or less ignored in TGS, in fact, the vast majority of ToM with Perrin is about 3-ish weeks in the past.
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Mar 8, 2012 02:23
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I'm behind the thread but I'm working through The Great Hunt and the whole thing with Rand and 'Lady Selene' makes so much more sense on a second read. I get what's going on, what she's talking about and why Rand acts so strange as soon as she shows up. In fact just knowing who characters are and what their motivations turn into has helped a lot on this reread, I guess I just wasn't paying much attention last time around which was probably 2005 at this point. I think shes actually using weak Compulsion on them the whole time, since everyone starts acting counter to the norm around her. Except Rand is so bloody contrary and stubborn that lesser forms of Compulsion isn't getting her anywhere. Also on Thom, how many regicides now? And Verin, hot drat does she do a lot of private talking with Darkfriends. Barthames in particular, she was absolutely sure she could get an invitation from one of the most powerful men in the city, he spills all about Fain after her private talk with him, and after that he winds up in several pieces. Also she lies outright about damane being able to detect a man channeling, ensuring Rand doesn't use the Power, and thus, avoiding Baalzamon until the final climatic moment(I expect having one of the Forsaken detect him and then nuke the whole group from orbit would be bad). Oh you wascally Aes Sedai...
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Mar 8, 2012 02:48
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veekie posted:
I'd say you're reading a bit too much into it really. Standard Aes Sedia double speak covers quite a bit, and Verin has been shown to have a decent amount of standard contacts. (Potential spoilers from one of the last books) In particular, her statement is entirely true about the damane. She doesn't know the extent of what they're capable of, and she quite possibly is aware of legends at least telling of ways to detect male channeling. Far Madding is a perfect example, who knows if the damane have something similar? Barthames reaction aligns very well with what we see happening later on with Ta'veren, and you have all 3 in the area when it happens. For getting access, Verin's plan is to let the innkeeper know that Verin would like to see Barthames new manor. She is relying on Cairhienin being Cairhienin to draw an invitation to visit. In addition, Aes Sedia are at least equivalent to important nobles in the amount of respect/access to stuff they can usually command. There are a lot of things that she does that in retrospect are quite wascally, but these I feel are just standard fare, and nothing stemming from later revelations.
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Mar 8, 2012 03:22
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veekie posted:I think shes actually using weak Compulsion on them the whole time, since everyone starts acting counter to the norm around her. Except Rand is so bloody contrary and stubborn that lesser forms of Compulsion isn't getting her anywhere. I think the biggest support of this is that It isn't just men feeling attracted to her or anything like that; when Egwene sees her she describes feeling "less than" her, she even starts ascribing things like "can probably use more of the one power than I can", and such (I think this is before she can reliably detect channeling and such and Selene is probably hiding that she can channel when in the White Tower). I think there is also a scene, either in TGH or TDR where Lanfear says something to the effect that Graendal's use of Compulsion is always so blunt and ruins the subject, whereas she finds that more subtle uses are far more effective, which is kinda a big hint. I think it's around when Liandrin tries to use compulsion on her, though I'm not 100% sure that scene even happens, now I think about it. I think that stuff is only a spoiler if you haven't finished book 4, though I'm not 100% on this.
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Mar 8, 2012 03:45
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^^ Something like a Mask of Mirrors + Compulsion broadcaster? Sorta like evil cosmetics. ZypherIM posted:
What about when he gets ripped to itty bits? Who's behind that anyway?
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Mar 8, 2012 05:39
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Cartoon Man posted:Also where the gently caress did Nynaeve learn to Balefire somebody out of the blue? TEOTW paperback p. 685 posted:As she spoke, the Aes Sedai thrust her staff out at arm's length, pointed back towards the Guiding. Something leaped from the end of the staff, like liquid light rendered to a syrup of fire, a blazing spear of white and red and yellow, streaking into the black, exploding, coruscating like shattered diamonds.
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Mar 8, 2012 07:11
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Paracelsus posted:It's pretty clearly something different from the fire Rand (PoV character) had seen her using before. Maybe Nynaeve subconsciously picked up on it? Egwene: "Nyneave only needed to see something done once to know how it is done." RE: when Siuan provoked Nyneave into attacking, then shielded her, presumably spanked her(so much spanking), and dosed her with something foul in book two. EDIT: That was very likely Balefire used on Machin Shin. Rand threw regular fire at it and it didn't even care. veekie fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 8, 2012 |
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Mar 8, 2012 09:13
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Yeah that could've been the beta version of Balefire. Normally when somebody uses Balefire, Jordan makes it a point to mention how the POV character sees an afterimage in their eyes like when you stare a bright light and then shut your eyelids. Back in book 1, he probably had the idea for some kind of badass laser beam of death, but hadn't fully worked it out in his mind how it would operate. Did Jordan ever mention how Moiraine learned the forbidden weave?
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Mar 8, 2012 12:53
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