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Duckman2008 posted:Honestly, porting a number to Google voice gives you freedom and saves you a lot of hassle. Def win win in this case. So after I port my Sprint number to google voice, if I changed to another carrier I would just tell them I have a google voice number? I guess I still don't quite get the relationship of google voice owning the number vs the carrier. Thanks.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 00:35 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:16 |
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CatchrNdRy posted:So after I port my Sprint number to google voice, if I changed to another carrier I would just tell them I have a google voice number? I guess I still don't quite get the relationship of google voice owning the number vs the carrier. Thanks. The carriers just give you a random number, and you tie that to Google Voice yourself (note: it really only works well with a smartphone). Sprint goes an extra step and uses Google Voice integration, which allows it to more easily function, but it is by no means needed. Google Voice is just fancy call forwarding, when you call from whatever number you have on a carrier it calls Google Voice then your friend, and when your friends call you it calls Google Voice and goofed voice then rings your phone.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 00:41 |
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Duckman2008 posted:The carriers just give you a random number, and you tie that to Google Voice yourself (note: it really only works well with a smartphone). Sprint goes an extra step and uses Google Voice integration, which allows it to more easily function, but it is by no means needed. Google Voice is just fancy call forwarding, when you call from whatever number you have on a carrier it calls Google Voice then your friend, and when your friends call you it calls Google Voice and goofed voice then rings your phone. OK so I have two numbers. No one really needs to know about my new number, they can continue calling my old one and then google forwards that call to my new number?
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 00:47 |
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I guess I have a question and I think this is the place for it. I currently have Verizon and some Samsung Alias 2 that I was going to upgrade to a droid or something in a couple of months. However, I have this week been put on my works cell phone plan and been given unlimited text, data, and voice and a droid phone. They also suggested I cancel my current cell phone plan since this line is now mine and why should I bother paying 70 a month on something I don't need. I guess what I'm wondering is what phone should I look into getting? I currently have a Motorola WX445 from work but it doesn't seem to be all that great compared to my roomates Thunderbolt. I hope someone can advise me on this what feels like convoluted mess. Oh, also, can anyone tell me why the hell I can't keep my same phone number when I cancel my contract and switch to the other phone full time? It seems ridiculous that I can keep my number going from AT&T 4 or 5 years ago and not when I'm just moving accounts laterally on Verizon.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 01:39 |
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CatchrNdRy posted:OK so I have two numbers. No one really needs to know about my new number, they can continue calling my old one and then google forwards that call to my new number? Yes. Ramadu posted:I guess I have a question and I think this is the place for it. The reason you can't keep your number is that your work home is already active and you can't move one contract on top of another (its false churn, stockholders hate it). Move your number to google voice and you will be fine. Phone wise if you can swing it get a galaxy nexus. It seems you have to buy it outright, so if that is too much I would guess get an incredible 2 or some other decent Verizon phone. That is a guess. Edit: beaten by excess blarg once again. drat. Duckman2008 fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 4, 2012 |
# ? Mar 4, 2012 02:25 |
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Ramadu posted:They also suggested I cancel my current cell phone plan since this line is now mine and why should I bother paying 70 a month on something I don't need. Because when it's a work phone, there's no expectation of privacy. They can audit your phone/call usage, (in theory, perhaps in practice) read your SMS messages and email, and depending on the specific setup might even be able to remote-wipe the phone without notice. Also because you may well lose your phone number, and even if you can move the number over to that line, you'll probably lose "your" number when you leave that job. If the above doesn't matter much to you, my only other concern would be losing any features (e.g., smartphone data) that might be grandfathered on your account, but it doesn't sound like you have that. In which case, port your number to Google Voice, and point Google Voice to your work number. That way if you ever leave that job you can port/point it back to a new line.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 02:29 |
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ExcessBLarg! posted:Here's why: Well yeah I guess in theory they can do that however its a small company (like 5 employees) that I've been with for years and I'm effectively the IT guy for all this. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't really care and they even put my girlfriends number on the like free to call list along with power companies and other work related stuff I use a lot of. I've never had a smartphone so all I really would need are my contacts but I can just manually move that. They also bought me a car and pay for the gas/insurance if that helps. What is google voice and how would I point my phone number to it? I've never even heard of that, is that like google chat? Also, why would I have to outright buy a Nexus, wouldn't it technically count as an upgrade for the phone I have (this awful motorola thing)? I've not looked at any of this cell phone stuff for liek 5 years when I switched from AT&T to verizon so any answers are helpful. Thanks in advance.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 03:48 |
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Country/Provider U.S. Midwest Current contract status None Budget (phone/plan) I have a Samsung GSM I9250 Galaxy Nexus Unlocked and want to find the best bang for the buck prepaid plan. I am having a difficult time tracking down accurate information as to which SIM cards will work on this phone. At first, StraightTalk was looking to be the best but I'm not seeing that it will work with my phone. T-Mob doesn't appear to be a legit option where I live. Their service isn't marketed here at all and everyone I've asked about it has said it's either non-existent or middling at best. Verizon, AT&T, U.S. Cellular and Sprint are the big ones around here. Features I know I want Unlimited data or at least a lot of data. Talk/text isn't high priority because I don't talk for long periods of time and I use GV for text.
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# ? Mar 4, 2012 22:08 |
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Country/Provider: USA/ AT&T Current contract status: None, but moving to existing family plan Budget (phone/plan): Phone: under $150 (with contract if I need to, I might not have a choice). Plan, as cheap as possible while still being useful. I know the family plan is $10 a month, and then the data options I am told are either $15 or $25 more on top of that, though I don't know at the moment how much data $25/month gets me over $15. Features I know I want: Android OS. Some type of data, but not unlimited. Unlimited or high text count. Thinking about the HTC Inspire 4G, but is there something betting in similar price range? I don't use my phone my phone very much, but I am more or less being forced into getting a new one and as such have to figure this out pretty quickly without much background research. My family in Wisconsin need to get a new plan and it would force me to sign a new 2 year contract with T-Mobile that I don't want to do. I am currently in Philadelphia and my experience with T-mobile on the east coast has been terrible. I am instead going to join my girlfriend's family plan on AT&T, but don't know what phone I should get. I speak very little on the phone, less than an hour total per week. I text more than anything. I figure I might as well use this opportunity to make the jump to my first smart phone. I don't want to spend more than $150 on the phone itself, and prefer to spend less than that. I also want enough data so I can putz around on the net when I need to for yelp, googlemaps, etc. and not worry about incurring extra data charges. My girlfriend got an HTC Inspire 4G back in July and likes it, but seeing as that was 8 months ago I wasn't sure if there was something a bit better in a similar price range out now. We just left the AT&T store which wasn't very helpful in figuring out what phone to get, so I am turning to the forums for assistance. Thank you! edit: Looking at this thread and some other info it looks like the Galaxy S or a hacked Nexus S would be good solely because of the latest Android OS. The Galaxy is a bit more than I wanted to spend. Am I shooting myself in the foot by not going for an android phone that supports this OS, or based on my needs does it not matter that much? nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 4, 2012 |
# ? Mar 4, 2012 23:25 |
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nesbit37 posted:Plan, as cheap as possible while still being useful. 300 MB doesn't look like much, but honestly it's fine for a lot of folks as long as you don't stream anything. Folks usually won't do more than 300 MB a month with light web browsing, occasional Facebook, Google Maps, etc. But the second you touch Pandora, Netflix, You Tube, Google Music, etc., outside WiFi you're going to need that 3 GB/mo plan. That said, I'm pretty certain you're not locked into a specific data plan for the duration of the contract, as long as you're subscribed to any compatible data plan. So if you find 300 MB isn't enough, you should be able to upgrade. As for texts, do they already have unlimited messaging on the family plan? It's $30/mo, but covers all lines. So you may already be set there. Otherwise unlimited texts is $20/mo per-line. However, a popular free alternative is to port your number to Google Voice and use GV for texting over your phone's data connection. One reason to consider picking up AT&T's unlimited messaging though is that it includes unlimited "any mobile" calls, meaning you can call any mobile phone, even on other providers, without using plan minutes. Again, perhaps it's not something needed on your individual line given your usage habits, but might be worth picking up plan wide if there's a concern of being low on minutes. nesbit37 posted:Am I shooting myself in the foot by not going for an android phone that supports this OS, or based on my needs does it not matter that much? For the record, the Galaxy S model folks are talking about hacking on AT&T is actually the Captivate, which is stupidly cheap. But that's not the point, so forget that. What you probably want to do, is pick up a subsidized Nexus S (model GT-I9020A). The secret is that the phone is eligible for an AT&T subsidty, but AT&T itself doesn't sell it. Instead, you have to go to Best Buy Mobile (inside a Best Buy store) and have them add the additional line there. Right now Best Buy is listing the device as free, so that's a great option. ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 5, 2012 |
# ? Mar 5, 2012 00:05 |
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Thanks for all of the info, ExcessBLarg!. The pricing info I received from my girlfriend and her mother as that is what they are currently paying. If their plans are not accurate or if I have to get something different when I sign on I don't know. I guess I will find out when I head back in to sign up and get a phone. I just want to double check that model number for the phone. You listed Nexus S (model GT-I9020A), but then the link you posted on Best Buy is for the Nexus S (model GT-I9020T). Does the different model number not matter in this case for this phone?
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 00:43 |
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It matters if you care about 3G connectivity. The 9020T can only use T-Mobile's 3G bands, on AT&T you'll be restricted to 2G. Data speeds will be impacted by that, and IIRC in most areas call quality will be as well.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 01:04 |
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nesbit37 posted:Does the different model number not matter in this case for this phone? However, I think the model number is a mistake on Best Buy's site. The page I linked is specifically for purchasing a subsidized model compatible with AT&T. Given that Best Buy Mobile is the Nexus S's exclusive sales partner in the US, I have to imagine that they actually carry the right model. Also note that there is a T-Mobile Best Buy page as well, and although it has the same model number it has a different SKU. Long story short, if you purchase it in store, check the box and/or pop the battery out and look for GT-I9020A. If it's not, ask if it's AT&T 3G compatible and what's up with that.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 05:18 |
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Great, thanks again. The Nexus S looks like it my be a bit behind tech specs wise but considering my usage that shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the clarification with the models, I will head to a Best Buy in the next couple days and see about picking one up when I join that family plan.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 17:49 |
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My family is letting our Verizon family plan run out, so I'm doing my own plan shopping for the first time in my life. I have also never owned a smartphone before (hell, mine doesn't even have a camera, it's so old) so I need help there too. Country/Provider: USA - going with tmobile Current contract status: ending Budget (phone/plan): $200-$300 for the phone, looking at $35 unlimited text/data Features I know I want: Android, unlimited nights/weekends Tmobile has 100 minutes/unlimited text and data for $30/mo prepaid, but without free weekends. They also have 1000 anytime minutes/unlimited text and data for $35 on a plan, with free nights/weekends. Can I get this as a monthly rate if I buy my own phone separately? I'd rather not have a contract, but I like to call my family on weekends and talk for a while, so the unlimited is important to me. Also, everyone seems to be recommending the Nexus S, is that this one or this one? I don't see it on Tmobile's website, so I wanted to make sure it would work with their service.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 19:40 |
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Goons, Currently I'm available for a upgrade, and this is the options I'm looking at: ***** Country/Provider: USA / Verizon Wireless Contract Status: As mentioned above, available for a upgrade, technically 2 yr contract up for renewal on 5/12. What I'm looking for: I'm content with my Droid X, but since a upgrade is available, I'd like to utilize a phone with faster network speeds (as in 4G) and utilize a phone that has good picture/video functions. My nephew uses Pandora which has interested me so something that offers something similar would be appreciated as well. Essentially I'm looking to upgrade to a nice multimedia device. What I'm specifically looking at: My price range is $100 - $200, and specifically man plan offers these phones at that price: * Droid 4 ($200) * Droid Bionic ($100) * Droid Razr 16gb ($100) * Apple Iphone 4S ($200) Any advice would be appreciated.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 23:00 |
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iPhone 4S isn't a 4G phone. You should really get a Galaxy Nexus, though, even if it means saving a little more money. Of your choices, though, there's no reason to get a Bionic over a RAZR at the same price unless you really need a removable battery, and the Droid 4 is basically a RAZR with a keyboard.
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# ? Mar 5, 2012 23:18 |
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Endless Mike posted:iPhone 4S isn't a 4G phone. You should really get a Galaxy Nexus, though, even if it means saving a little more money. Of your choices, though, there's no reason to get a Bionic over a RAZR at the same price unless you really need a removable battery, and the Droid 4 is basically a RAZR with a keyboard. To add to this, Amazon Wireless has the Galaxy Nexus for $230 for upgrades. This will help get it into your budget. Edit: Although if the two biggest criteria are photos and multimedia, you may want to forego LTE for now and go for an iPhone 4S. 3G will handle audio streaming fine, and especially if you're usually somewhere with wifi, you may not really benefit much from LTE speeds. I guess the only very slight and probably unlikely concern would be if you use tons of data and Verizon starts more aggressively capping/throttling 3G users who are technically "unlimited" in order to get them to switch to LTE before you're ready for an upgrade. That's a pretty tenuous and minor "benefit" of LTE, though. Ciabatta fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 6, 2012 |
# ? Mar 5, 2012 23:33 |
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Sloppy posted:Tmobile has 100 minutes/unlimited text and data for $30/mo prepaid, but without free weekends. Where do you see this second plan?
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 02:35 |
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Country/Provider: T-Mobile/Midwest USA Current contract status: Off official contract with current phone (TM506 Sony Ericsson) Budget (phone/plan): $300 for phone, ~$50-60 for data/talk plan Features I know I want: 2-3gb data, ~500 minutes talk. Not so interested in tethering or other fancy options for the most part. My current phone is getting flaky with receiving calls, and dialing out occasionally, so therefore I'm looking at another new phone. I've experienced the lack of ability to call out inside certain buildings too, but that's more of a limitation of the frequency band that T-Mobile uses, rather than the phone. I had been looking at my first step towards a smart phone, either Android-based or iPhone...I'm not necessarily biased either way. With regards to both iPhones not being available on T-Mobile (if ever) and dialing issues inside buildings, though, I realize I may have to look at either AT&T or Verizon. The HTC Sensation or the Samsung Galaxy S2 are what I've been looking at for Android-based offerings, and both seem to be decent choices. Any suggesions?
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 06:11 |
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Naffer posted:Where do you see this second plan? When I called up Tmobile and asked about the $30 pay as you go plan, the girl said that I could get what I listed for $5 more as a contract. When I called back later requesting more info, the next person that answered told me I was crazy, they had nothing like that. So, it's not real
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 06:16 |
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gently caress it, think I'm gonna get a smartphone. Verizon, eligible for upgrade, and I'm basically looking at the 4s or the Nexus for use in the SF Bay Area. iPhone is appealing for the smaller size, better battery, better camera, and because it sounds like it's easier to use. On the other hand I'm wondering if the Nexus is worth it for the double data special at Verizon. Not sure if I'd get the 16gb iPhone or the 32, and I don't know if the extra $$ is justified by the extra space. Afaik there are plenty of wifi spots in the city, so maybe 2gb/mo is plenty? Planning on mostly normal phone use plus some email/web browsing and maybe some streaming music.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 07:55 |
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Phone: Samsung Galaxy S2 (EU/Germany) Quad-Band W-CDMA Looking for: US/Florida Pre-Paid Plan for Data Questions/Background: I'm going on a Florida Road-Trip with my Lady at the end of this month and since roaming is a ripoff I'm looking for the best Pre-Paid Data Plan there is. I'm looking for good availability/speed with reasonable cost. As far as my research goes I have the choice between Verizon (CDMA?), AT&T (GSM?), T-Mobile (GSM?). Which provider do I want and how does the purchase work? For instance here in Germany you can get the pre-paid SIMs just in nearly every supermarket.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 10:03 |
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idiotsavant posted:gently caress it, think I'm gonna get a smartphone. Verizon, eligible for upgrade, and I'm basically looking at the 4s or the Nexus for use in the SF Bay Area. In terms of just the plan 2GB for $30 to me is a ripoff. 4 is a good number though. But if you don't plan on streaming music and video you shouldn't hit 2gbs either. Phone wise that depends on which operating system you want. If the iphone already sounds more appealing for the reasons you mentioned get the iphone. Storage wise is debatable, how much music do you have? If you are a huge music person, it's not the worst idea to get the 32, but again it just depends on how much space you need.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 15:30 |
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idiotsavant posted:gently caress it, think I'm gonna get a smartphone. Verizon, eligible for upgrade, and I'm basically looking at the 4s or the Nexus for use in the SF Bay Area.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 15:55 |
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I hope this is a question appropriate for this thread as well, if not I will come back and delete it -- what are your opinions on skins vs. cases? The biggest complaints I've seen of popular skins like Invisible Shield is that the skin can get somewhat sticky after a while and can cause issues with touch sensitivity of the screen. As for cases, I'd imagine the size issue could be a concern.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 22:34 |
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:I hope this is a question appropriate for this thread as well, if not I will come back and delete it -- what are your opinions on skins vs. cases? What phone? For iPhones geta case, the thing is fragile. Most Android phones are a bit more durable, but not a lot more. In general I usually get one of each. If you are a normal person: Incipio makes good, thin cases Normal screen protectors are fine, amazon has them for like, $5 Zaggs are overkill and get a filmy feel If you are of the rugged sort: Otterbox Defender or Ballistic cases. Most people really don't need these. I personally like the Otterbox Commuter because it is a hybrid between thin and rugged. The commuters come with a screen protector.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 23:02 |
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Duckman2008 posted:What phone? For iPhones geta case, the thing is fragile. Most Android phones are a bit more durable, but not a lot more. In general I usually get one of each. I'm definitely leaning towards the Galaxy Nexus, and yes, my phone would experience the normal physical activity that most phones experience.
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# ? Mar 6, 2012 23:15 |
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The counter guy at Tmobile told me that the month to month plans get lower priority from the towers and smaller coverage areas compared to the contract plans. Sounds like pure horseshit, is that correct?
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 04:16 |
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Sloppy posted:Sounds like pure horseshit, is that correct? Edit: Oh, prepaid vs postpaid. That's a bit different. Often prepaid accounts aren't eligible for roaming, so if you're in an area with not-so-hot coverage the prepaid folks won't roam and postpaid folks will, although the policies there are carrier specific. Otherwise I don't think there's a significant difference in service quality. ExcessBLarg! fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Mar 7, 2012 |
# ? Mar 7, 2012 04:37 |
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Sloppy posted:The counter guy at Tmobile told me that the month to month plans get lower priority from the towers and smaller coverage areas compared to the contract plans. Sounds like pure horseshit, is that correct? He probably meant that prepaid generally doesn't have the same roaming agreements as contracts do. I don't know about Tmobile, but almost every other carrier is like that
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 06:16 |
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Tmobile's FAQ posted:850 MHz roaming allows T-Mobile postpaid customers to access roaming service in areas that previously were not accessible. Currently 850MHz roaming is not available for T-Mobile Monthly4G or Prepaid customers. My understanding is that Tmobile prepaid has some voice roaming capability, but no data roaming.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 14:13 |
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I never knew getting a new phone would be such a hassle. What genius at AT&T came up with the rule that if your current (not delinquent, but current) bill isn't paid you can't add new lines to your account? The Best Buys around me also don't have the Nexus S in stock, so between having to run back and forth between places and the (hopefully) mistyped model number on the Best Buy site this has become quite the ordeal.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 15:34 |
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nesbit37 posted:I never knew getting a new phone would be such a hassle. What genius at AT&T came up with the rule that if your current (not delinquent, but current) bill isn't paid you can't add new lines to your account? The Best Buys around me also don't have the Nexus S in stock, so between having to run back and forth between places and the (hopefully) mistyped model number on the Best Buy site this has become quite the ordeal. That's the same for every carrier. They want to make sure you are staying with them, and not upgrading and running.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 16:20 |
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I want a used phone to use as a PMP. I need at least a 4" screen, rootability and HDMI out. A front facing camera would also be nice. Research is pointing me towards the Motorola Droid X or Motorola Atrix 4G. Another option is to get a Samsung Galaxy Player. My limit is about $250 or so.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 20:16 |
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Country / Provider: USA / Verizon Contract Status: Family Plan, unlimited Data til September 2012 or 2013. Budget (Phone): $200-300. Eligible for an upgrade. Features I know I want: 4G. Durable (ish. I know it's a smartphone). Preferrably Android. Easy to crack tethering option. Basically, I realize that I lucked out with the unlimited data plan and am using my phone as my primary source of internet. A family member brought a Verizon 4G tablet to my area, which was getting 1/3 the ping and 20x the download speeds I'm used to (despite living among the hillfolk). Basically, it gave me hope of playing an online game again that isn't typeracer, and while I have the option, I want to take the fullest advantage of unlimited bandwidth. I hate to ditch my Incredible (a surprisingly good purchase), so any information about solid verizon wireless 4g phones and unreported data throttling would be much appreciated.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 20:21 |
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Cheekio posted:Verizon. 4G. Preferrably Android. Easy to crack tethering option. With regard to tethering though, this is a battle you will eventually lose. Although the Galaxy Nexus is perhaps, the easiest to manipulate into removing any device-side tethering restrictions (if there are any) due to it's out-of-the-box rootability, at the end of the day carriers can and will detect tethering network-side. Perhaps Verzion is lenient right now, but AT&T actively does this. Furthemore, while various folks are promoting "undetectable" tethering apps and the like, they're merely workaround until the carries update their detection strategies. However, in the end, there's only two ways to truly tether undetected: 1. Act like a smartphone in all capacies that generate unencrypted traffic, which includes not generating any traffic that's specific to desktop computers (e.g., games). 2. Tunnel to a VPS and encrypt all traffic that would otherwise give the connection away as being not from a phone. If you can do either, great! If not, well, you can continue to tether until the time Verizon decides to care enough to force upgrade folks into tethering plans. I guess my point is that I wouldn't make a smartphone purchase on the assumption that you'll be able to covertly tether throughout the duration of the contract--particularly if you depend on it as your sole source of Internet service. That said, the Galaxy Nexus is a fine device and still worth picking up otherwise.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 20:54 |
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b0nes posted:I want a used phone to use as a PMP. I need at least a 4" screen, rootability and HDMI out. A front facing camera would also be nice. Research is pointing me towards the Motorola Droid X or Motorola Atrix 4G. Another option is to get a Samsung Galaxy Player. My limit is about $250 or so. You could get a Nexus S for $200 or so, or a Samsung Captivate or Fascinate for even cheaper (about $100) if you are willing to do some basic rooting and pop CM9 on them. Honestly, I would get the Captivate because it should have 16GBs internal storage PLUS an external SD Card, so as long as you get good software running on it its good hardware underneath. Kalibar is the resident audiophile around here and I believe his opinion will even add in that the Captivate and other Galaxy phones have superior music quality as well, but I can't completely confirm that.
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# ? Mar 7, 2012 23:02 |
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ExcessBLarg! posted:The Verizon Android devices to get is the Galaxy Nexus Tethering info was very helpful, so I'll have to do a more thorough investigation of whether it'll be worth the cash. When I bought my last phone, Samsung was renowned for botching the software side of their offerings. Apparently they cleaned up their act for the Nexus, or is this assuming I'll root it and throw on a new ROM as soon as I get it?
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# ? Mar 8, 2012 17:28 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 05:16 |
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Cheekio posted:Apparently they cleaned up their act for the Nexus, or is this assuming I'll root it and throw on a new ROM as soon as I get it? In other words, Google puts in quite a bit of effort to make Android run drat-well on Nexus devices, perhaps a better effort than any third-party OEM does on their own models. As a result, they're the few Android phones that don't require any modification to run optimally, or have latest updates, things like that. Although you're certainly welcome to mod them, and the hacker community embraces them because all the source code is available for those devices, unlike every other Android phone.
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# ? Mar 8, 2012 17:54 |