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the truth posted:Weren't the writers for the series something like this? The head writer for 1 and 2 went on to The Old Republic, so a conversation writer (who did a great job with Garrus in 1 and 2) became head writer, and it's pretty clear that while he's great in small-scale stuff, he's not capable or qualified to do big picture stuff.
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Mar 21, 2012 18:34
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I don't see how this is that different from the ending of Fallout 3, which was pretty stupid and terrible, until people complained and a DLC fix came out. If anything I think this is kind of a problem to how games are made, at least with a movie they can do test audiences or something to get some feedback from people about it before releasing the final product.
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Mar 21, 2012 18:47
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ChiaPetOutletStore posted:I don't see how this is that different from the ending of Fallout 3, which was pretty stupid and terrible, until people complained and a DLC fix came out. Also they didn't just give FO3 a new ending so much as have a bunch of post-game DLC planned that happened to include a new ending. Maybe that's what Bioware is planning but I can't tell. Before this whole thing started I assumed that all the DLC they had planned would be inserted before the ending, like in ME2. edit: I guess thinking about it again, I was pretty steamed at FO3's ending at the time, and the clumsy way they adjusted it in the DLC was also pretty bad (Falkes lecturing you on turning away from your destiny or something if you ask her to go in instead). But at least that was only one game and not a whole series. And like I said, Bethesda's storytelling and characterization is just so much worse to start. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 21, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 18:51
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Stelas posted:I kind of agree, because it would be nice to see writers spurred to do a better job... but I also kind of disagree, because - ME3 aside - gamers can often be really dumb in what they like or dislike. Worst case, "HOW DARE YOU I WANT A REWRITE OF DARK SOULS' ENDING SO I GET WITH A SIDEKICK GIRL". Peeling off all those onion layers 
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Mar 21, 2012 18:53
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the truth posted:Weren't the writers for the series something like this? Bring back random coder #22 who wrote the planet descriptions for Mass Effect 1, TIA.
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Mar 21, 2012 18:56
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ChiaPetOutletStore posted:If anything I think this is kind of a problem to how games are made, at least with a movie they can do test audiences or something to get some feedback from people about it before releasing the final product. Eh, I don't remember when was the last time I played an American made game with a good ending. Or one that lasted more than literally 2 to 3 minutes.
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Mar 21, 2012 18:57
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Fallout: New Vegas fits both!
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Mar 21, 2012 19:01
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The thing with Fallout 3 is that, while it's the 3rd game in the series, you're not the same vault dweller as was in Fallout 1. You hadn't built up your character over a series of games, making choices you were told would have an mipact on the voerall ending of the game. And unless it was only New Vegas, Fallout 3 at least had an afterword slideshow or whatever that told you the fates of those you'd helped along the way. ME3 was more of an investment, and you learn the fates of maybe 3 people after the game, and those 3 people all share the same fate.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:07
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Krad posted:Eh, I don't remember when was the last time I played an American made game with a good ending. Or one that lasted more than literally 2 to 3 minutes. Last year alone had fantastic endings in Infamous 2, Portal 2 and Arkham City and that's just off the top of my head.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:12
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Samurai Sanders posted:The thing about FO3 is that I thought the ENTIRE main plot was pretty bad (clean water is pretty of important but it doesn't have whatever mystical significance they are giving it), so the ending didn't shock me as much (the bit with Falkes was pretty bad though). It's the huge gap between the rest of the plot and the ending that make's ME3's so bad. True, I meant to say this situation isn't really all that different, so I don't see why people are saying this is going to set a new precedent of making the real ending paid DLC that will just gouge the customer. Then again, it is EA, so you never really know.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:12
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Yeah I don't think bad endings are any kind of an epidemic or anything. Bioware just hosed up. Honestly when I first saw it I thought it was a situation like KOTOR2 where they had run out of time or resources or something, it didn't occur to me that that could be the ending they actually planned for. edit: maybe they should have explained (lied) that they DID run out of time and didn't make the ending they wanted, THAT might have justified making a new one. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 21, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 19:14
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axleblaze posted:Last year alone had fantastic endings in Infamous 2, Portal 2 and Arkham City and that's just off the top of my head. That's why I mentioned length as well. Portal 2/AC's endings were really short, like most other game's. ME3's is just as short, too, and had no time to wrap anything up. This also reminds me that I should finish Infamous 2.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:17
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I think short endings can sometimes be made up for by a good final segment, though. Fallout 3 didn't have that by a long shot, and ME3's was a stupid "Survive the enemy wave" thing and then 15 minutes of cutscenes. I don't remember InFamous 2's ending being particularly long, but the entire mission leading up to it was fun and engaging, and even had some decent character development. It ended with Cole either doing something heroic or something terrible that had apparent consequences, and had a neat little afterword to go with it.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:26
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Krad posted:That's why I mentioned length as well. Portal 2/AC's endings were really short, like most other game's. ME3's is just as short, too, and had no time to wrap anything up. Who cares about length though? As long as they give you a satisfying conclusion, why complain? Portal 2 in particular might have one of the best endings in recent memory. Who cares if it isn't long?
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Mar 21, 2012 19:33
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axleblaze posted:Who cares about length though? As long as they give you a satisfying conclusion, why complain? Portal 2 in particular might have one of the best endings in recent memory. Who cares if it isn't long? I do if it's a narrative-driven game, which Portal 2... really isn't.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:49
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Krad posted:I do if it's a narrative-driven game, which Portal 2... really isn't.
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Mar 21, 2012 19:58
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Samurai Sanders posted:It...isn't? You must have played a really different Portal 2 than I did. Hearing Aperture's backstory in the background while I'm trying to shoot portals doesn't count as narrative. 
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Mar 21, 2012 20:03
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Krad posted:Hearing Aperture's backstory in the background while I'm trying to shoot portals doesn't count as narrative.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:05
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Then, according to that, every single game out there except Tetris is narrative-driven, from Uncharted to Duke Nukem Forever. Come on, I'm talking about games where the story means something and a lot is lost if you strip it out of it.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:09
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Edit: nevwrmind
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Mar 21, 2012 20:12
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Krad posted:Then, according to that, every single game out there except Tetris is narrative-driven, from Uncharted to Duke Nukem Forever.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:13
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Portal 2 is narrative driven in the way that a game should be. It's all incorporated into the game organically instead of using a bunch of cut scenes and dialog boxes to drive the story. I really wish more games were like that.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:18
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All I cared about in Portal 2 were the puzzles. Oh, and I thought Wheatley was funny, that's about it. It still didn't have a story that I'd care about to make me want to play until the end, that was the gameplay.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:27
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Just because you didn't care about the narrative doesn't mean there wasn't one to drive it. I have a friend that does that with JRPGs for some reason. He could tell me the personality traits of individual characters and their interpersonal relationships, but the narrative was completely lost on him, and he was just there for fighting animes and fanciful enemies. Doesn't mean those games aren't narrative-driven.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:37
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Wasn't the goal in Portal 2 always to get to the next batch of puzzles though? I think the story was integrated very well into the gameplay, but the puzzles were still largely the focus. I feel like the term narrative-driven is broad to the point of near meaninglessness, basically.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:40
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Speaking of lovely endings, anyone try Operation Raccoon City here?
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Mar 21, 2012 20:42
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ChiaPetOutletStore posted:Wasn't the goal in Portal 2 always to get to the next batch of puzzles though? I think the story was integrated very well into the gameplay, but the puzzles were still largely the focus. I feel like the term narrative-driven is broad to the point of near meaninglessness, basically. edit: I tend to think of it as like the story in a martial arts movie. It can be good or not, but either way it's just meant to string the fight scenes together. Or porn for that matter. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 21, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 20:43
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Policenaut posted:Speaking of lovely endings, anyone try Operation Raccoon City here?
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Mar 21, 2012 20:44
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Harlock posted:There's a special level of shame reserved for people who admit to buying that. The multiplayer isn't that bad, but the campaign is absolutely god awful.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:45
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I just realized that Slant Six is the...other SOCOM developer. Ugh.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:45
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Samurai Sanders posted:What I think is that if you narrow the definition too much it becomes meaningless because in the end what is the story in a game other than the thing that carries you to the next puzzle/fight/QTE or whatever? I think it just comes down to what you're looking to get out of a game. As long as the gameplay elements are fun and engaging enough, a story to tie them together isn't really necessary. I don't think it's fair to say that a game is still narrative-driven, even if you don't like the narrative, because I could just as much say it was the gameplay that drove me through the game, and the narrative was just window dressing around the fun. EDIT: Actually that martial arts movie example is a good point, but just because the narrative steers where the gameplay will go, it doesn't necessarily affect the fun of the gameplay, or the mechanics of the game that much. Crystal Lake Witch fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 21, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 20:53
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Harlock posted:There's a special level of shame reserved for people who admit to buying that. H-Hey now! I haven't beat it yet, but it's obviously not a core Resident Evil game (90% of the story is told through COD-esque loading screen techno-hacking-CNN clips). It's fun for what it is, but I kind of wish I hadn't paid full price. If you want to come home from work and fire a gun for 20 minutes straight, you may like this game.
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Mar 21, 2012 20:55
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Policenaut posted:Speaking of lovely endings, anyone try Operation Raccoon City here? I got it and I am not ashamed to admit it. I was expecting more, a lot more, but those were tempered after seeing so many negative impressions/reviews/posts. When I finally got my hands on it (finished up three missions) I was surprised that it was better than I was expecting. It's just not the game I had hoped it would be and it falls short in a lot of areas but at least it's fun online.
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Mar 21, 2012 21:16
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Gametrailers did not hate Ninja Gaiden 3 nearly as much as IGN did; http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-ninja-gaiden/728300 What it comes down to though is this; The game removes everything that makes 1 & 2 good.
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Mar 21, 2012 21:35
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For what it's worth everyone, reports are coming in that all those terrible screenshots of the Silent Hill HD Collection from a few days ago are bullshit. I think there are still a lot of problems with the collection (framerate problems, sound mix problems, new voice acting is possibly worse than the old), but nothing so blatant as "all these textures are mysteriously gone." At first I couldn't figure out why someone would bother making fake screenshots to gently caress over a game, and then I remembered that we're talking about Silent Hill fans and that anything that doesn't fit their nebulous idea of what SH should be is blasphemy. Edit: Oh and it apparently just got patched on PS3 too so who knows what that did. RichterIX fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Mar 22, 2012 |
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Mar 21, 2012 23:58
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I just redboxed Operation Raccoon City, and so far I am having fun with it. Its not god awful as I thought it would be but there are some things that goddamned stupid in it. The most meaningful one I can think of off the top of my head is the melee. Good luck if one of the human enemies melee you because they will stunlock you to death. Also, it takes way too many hits with your melee weapon to kill them.
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Mar 22, 2012 00:09
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All I know about it is that it is a zombie cover shooter. A zombie...cover shooter. Can someone explain that seeming contradiction?
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Mar 22, 2012 00:11
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You shoot dudes with guns and there happen to be zombies around to gently caress things up. Makes the multiplayer really chaotic.
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Mar 22, 2012 00:12
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What's the consensus on Silent Hill: Downpour? I haven't gone into the thread for fear of spoilers, but I was considering picking it up. I'm not a huge SH fan, but I've played the first two games and enjoyed them quite a bit. I'd be playing with someone who is a huge SH fan, though.
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Mar 22, 2012 00:18
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bbcisdabomb posted:What's the consensus on Silent Hill: Downpour? I haven't gone into the thread for fear of spoilers, but I was considering picking it up. Crappy and glitchy. Do yourself a favour and play 3/4 instead.
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Mar 22, 2012 00:27
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