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TL posted:I somehow spaced out when Kuja referred to it as being a "magic free zone" the first time through and brought Vivi and Dagger with me. That was about the biggest pain in the balls I've ever experienced in a FF game.  Yeah, I did that too. Same people and everything.Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:For a while they can wreck bosses in an instant. Not too shabby but by the end of the game bosses have too much HP for it to work.
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Mar 24, 2012 07:31
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U.T. Raptor posted:I beat that Demon Wall boss (the one you're supposed to run from) with a couple giant-rear end Quickening chains. Yeah, he's about the rough limit of it. Once you start fighting bosses bigger than that /normally/ (so, about another 10 hours of gameplay in), Quickenings (and summons, in many ways) drop off to the point of near-uselessness almost immediately. On the other hand, Quickening-chaining the Demon Wall to death means you get early Deathbringers, which allows you to break the game faster!  Elentor posted:It is bad design that you never learned the battle, but it is good design that you were still able to beat the game since its focus isn't the gameplay, it's the story. Ah, but the statement was that he got to the final disk, not that he beat the game. Considering the multiple complaints I've heard about Disk 4 of FF8, both in boss quality and story content, I wholly believe that FF8 will let you get to the final disk, but then proceeds to tapdance all over your balls unless you've broken it over your knee already. That's not good design, even if it WAS good design up to that point.
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Mar 24, 2012 07:59
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KataraniSword posted:Yeah, he's about the rough limit of it. Once you start fighting bosses bigger than that /normally/ (so, about another 10 hours of gameplay in), Quickenings (and summons, in many ways) drop off to the point of near-uselessness almost immediately. You mean Demonsbane, right?
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Mar 24, 2012 11:55
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The Deathbringer is much much sillier to get and much much more effective, being a 90-power sword.
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Mar 24, 2012 13:21
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KataraniSword posted:Ah, but the statement was that he got to the final disk, not that he beat the game. Considering the multiple complaints I've heard about Disk 4 of FF8, both in boss quality and story content, I wholly believe that FF8 will let you get to the final disk, but then proceeds to tapdance all over your balls unless you've broken it over your knee already. Even if you had a decent understanding of the system on your first playthrough, the final section could be stupidly annoying. Unless you keep your party near death and refine the gilgamesh card, that is. 
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Mar 24, 2012 13:21
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Schwartzcough posted:Junctioning was hard for you, but the game was still playable- maybe that means it's well-balanced after all. You raise some good points there. I do think that a game can be difficult or complex and still be accessible, just that FF8 wasn't, at least as I played it. It was more frustrating than fun for me, but to each his own.
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Mar 24, 2012 14:19
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I liked the way FF7 dealt with its minigames. You had a pretty easy version for real plot consequences, and then a harder challenge mode in the Gold Saucer arcade for funbucks.
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Mar 24, 2012 17:18
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Glazius posted:I liked the way FF7 dealt with its minigames. You had a pretty easy version for real plot consequences, and then a harder challenge mode in the Gold Saucer arcade for funbucks. I wish there were better ways of earning GP in the Gold Saucer. When I was trying to get Omnislash on the first disk having to play the basketball game for 20 minutes trying to earn GP to pay for the battle square really grated on me. Not as much as trying to do well in the battle square without a ribbon though. Speaking of which, I'm replaying FF7 at the moment and I'm at the start of the second disk but I still don't have a ribbon, I thought I usually had one by now. Whens the earliest time you can get one?
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Mar 24, 2012 17:46
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I wish there were better ways of earning GP in the Gold Saucer. When I was trying to get Omnislash on the first disk having to play the basketball game for 20 minutes trying to earn GP to pay for the battle square really grated on me. Not as much as trying to do well in the battle square without a ribbon though. You can get one in the next dungeon that Elentor is going to visit.
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Mar 24, 2012 17:51
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If you have an excess of cash, a guy randomly shows up at the entrance to Gold Saucer offering GP for Gil.
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Mar 24, 2012 18:20
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If you don't mind making a sandwich or two, you can also get a decent amount of GP by betting on Chocobos. My sister, who admittedly has a lot more patience than I, was able to get the best prizes from the battle square just with the GP from bets.
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Mar 24, 2012 18:29
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The White Dragon posted:
If you don't I will. I think using blood orange juice would give it proper color. And FFIX is the best because you can do the battles two player. Are there any other really good rpgs that do this besides FFIX and FFVI?
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Mar 24, 2012 19:38
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Majesty. Buuuuuut I'm getting better at mixed drinks and complementary flavors and poo poo so maybe in another six months I'll submit it to them.
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Earthbound does it too, and there was a whole LP of two player Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.
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Mar 24, 2012 20:00
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KataraniSword posted:Ah, but the statement was that he got to the final disk, not that he beat the game. Considering the multiple complaints I've heard about Disk 4 of FF8, both in boss quality and story content, I wholly believe that FF8 will let you get to the final disk, but then proceeds to tapdance all over your balls unless you've broken it over your knee already. Word, the other problem though is that playing through the game when you don't grasp how it works kind of isn't fun. I didn't find it fun. The only part of the gameplay of 8 I remember is the last dungeon, using Aura and the bosses' superattacks to set up Limit spam. Squall and Irvine would do damage and then I would restart Selphie's limit over and over until a full-party cure came up. Cheap, but it was actually kind of tense and exciting, which is more than I got out of trudging through the early game.
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Mar 24, 2012 20:20
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Die Laughing posted:If you don't I will. I think using blood orange juice would give it proper color. Maybe Chrono Trigger?
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Mar 24, 2012 20:22
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I dunno if it counts because they're in real time but most tales games
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Mar 24, 2012 20:38
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Die Laughing posted:And FFIX is the best because you can do the battles two player. Are there any other really good rpgs that do this besides FFIX and FFVI? The Tales series, of course! (And it actually makes sense to have multiplayer there, unlike FF6/9 were nothing *really* changes by turning on multi.) e: v In terms of characters/story, sure, but from what I've played the recently released Graces easily beats it in terms of gameplay. Admiral H. Curtiss fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 20:38
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Die Laughing posted:If you don't I will. I think using blood orange juice would give it proper color. If you mean with multiple human players, I'd suggest the Tales series, the best of which is Tales of Vesperia.
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Mar 24, 2012 20:41
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I always just waited until I could breed Chocobos to get all the GP-prizes. You can amass crazy amounts of GP just getting your Chocobos up to snuff, not to mention the prizes you can win. Just knock 'em out at the same time, I say!
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Mar 24, 2012 22:27
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Die Laughing posted:And FFIX is the best because you can do the battles two player. I wanted to like the multiplayer because it was a nice idea (I'm sure some of the other games have this too, like, 4 - 6?) but trying to share characters and making sure both players are paying attention is kind of key, also when I play RPGs like this I get pretty particular about setups and what I need to do, etc. That said, I liked the idea of having one player running around talking to people and stuff in the field, and setting all the characters to controller 2 so the other player can do the battles, that way for the most part both players are equally involved.
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Mar 24, 2012 22:28
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Phoenix Taichou posted:(I'm sure some of the other games have this too, like, 4 - 6?) FF4 did it best because both players has full control over everything. Playing with your buddy who doesn't know where to go at all? Nudge Cecil in the right direction. Fuckin' around? Buttonmash him into a corner. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 22:55
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The White Dragon posted:FF4 did it best because both players has full control over everything. Playing with your buddy who doesn't know where to go at all? Nudge Cecil in the right direction. Fuckin' around? Buttonmash him into a corner. I think multiplayer FF4 was the biggest cause of thrown punches in front of a video game. Well, the biggest cause that didn't have "Mario" in the name.
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Mar 25, 2012 00:09
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I had a fun time letting my roommate navigate FFVI on my first playthrough. FFIX we've been switching back and forth because I know the game just as well as he does. It's also interesting to see how you feel about characters when it's "My characters" and "His characters" as opposed to just "Party Members." I've been appreciating Steiner a lot more since he's "mine". I hope this derail isn't detracting from the thread. I've just gotten back into Final Fantasy lately, and it's been a lot of fun being able to enjoy these games as an adult when I originally feared that the series would have lost it's luster without me being a teenager anymore.
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Mar 25, 2012 00:13
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FAT WORM OF ERROR posted:I wish there were better ways of earning GP in the Gold Saucer. Well, there is. I can't recall if it's already been mentioned but there's a guy at the entrance who appears sometimes and will sell you GP.
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Mar 25, 2012 01:13
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Squalitude posted:Well, there is. I can't recall if it's already been mentioned but there's a guy at the entrance who appears sometimes and will sell you GP. But only after some events on Disc 2, if I remember correctly. I spent a bunch of time on disc 1 going back and forth and never spotting the guy, then got him the first time I went back after Disc 2 events. 
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Mar 25, 2012 04:52
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KataraniSword posted:I think multiplayer FF4 was the biggest cause of thrown punches in front of a video game. Well, the biggest cause that didn't have "Mario" in the name. Before there was FF4 or the Mario Party games, there was.. Battletoads. I don't think I ever got past the second level playing with a partner.
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Mar 25, 2012 05:16
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I guess you should include Secret of Mana/Evermore, especially with the Multi-Tap.
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Mar 25, 2012 05:39
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Scalding Coffee posted:I guess you should include Secret of Mana/Evermore, especially with the Multi-Tap. Evermore wasn't multiplayer until they developed a fan patch for roms  That was the shittiest thing about Secret of Mana 2/Seiken Densetsu 3, they took all the lessons they learned with SoM and tossed 'em out the window, making it a game for only two players.
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Mar 25, 2012 05:58
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The only right way for two people to play an RPG is to have one player holding the controller and the other reading the strategy guide. And then a lot of yelling between the two. Obviously I can't be misreading the guide so you must be doing something wrong. 
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Mar 25, 2012 08:08
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The White Dragon posted:Evermore wasn't multiplayer until they developed a fan patch for roms
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Mar 25, 2012 08:50
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The Deathbringer is much much sillier to get and much much more effective, being a 90-power sword. Yeah, but can you get it that early? I thought the earliest you could get it was from a rare monster in deep Barheim.
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Mar 25, 2012 08:58
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The White Dragon posted:FF4 did it best because both players has full control over everything. Playing with your buddy who doesn't know where to go at all? Nudge Cecil in the right direction. Fuckin' around? Buttonmash him into a corner. Hah! I didn't know you both could control them on the field! Die Laughing posted:I had a fun time letting my roommate navigate FFVI on my first playthrough. FFIX we've been switching back and forth because I know the game just as well as he does. It's also interesting to see how you feel about characters when it's "My characters" and "His characters" as opposed to just "Party Members." I've been appreciating Steiner a lot more since he's "mine". Makes sense yeah, especially if you've randomly assigned them or taken it in turns to choose character. Me and my brother did this with the Marvel: Ultimate Alliance games, just divided the heroes up half and half and developed them how we wanted them, which was interesting because he'd focus more on the powers that were fun or looked good while I'd be focusing on the stats and what worked best. Used to do this with X-Com: Enemy Unknown too - split the soldiers between us and name them, then you'd make that much more effort to keep them alive. Anyway, back to the FF controlling, it's a good way to get friends/family into the game when they don't want to do the technical stuff or aren't that great with games - let them do the running around and playing the story while you handle the battles/equipment etc Ragny posted:The only right way for two people to play an RPG is to have one player holding the controller and the other reading the strategy guide. And then a lot of yelling between the two. Obviously I can't be misreading the guide so you must be doing something wrong. I think I've become a terrible gamer over the years. When I was a kid I used to play games with my brothers, then they grew up and/or moved out, and I was just left to entertain myself for years, and I never knew that many people who were really into video games. I do remember one time in secondary school (high school to most of you) grabbed Resi 2 when it first came out, played it with a friend with a strategy guide, and we'd swap over playing or reading from the guide, so yeah that was chaotic but fun. Phoenix Taichou fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Mar 25, 2012 |
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Mar 25, 2012 10:09
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George posted:Yeah, but can you get it that early? I thought the earliest you could get it was from a rare monster in deep Barheim. I might be confusing the Deathbringer and the Demonbane. I do know you get one of the two from a random chest in that temple with the Demon Wall, if and only if you destroy it the first time you see it. It's largely irrelevant which is which for this discussion's purpose.
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Mar 25, 2012 10:46
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KataraniSword posted:I might be confusing the Deathbringer and the Demonbane. I do know you get one of the two from a random chest in that temple with the Demon Wall, if and only if you destroy it the first time you see it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on another level of breaking the game.
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Mar 25, 2012 11:03
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George posted:Yeah, but can you get it that early? I thought the earliest you could get it was from a rare monster in deep Barheim. Yeah, Demonbane is in Raithwall's Tomb. Deathbringer is indeed stolen from a monster in Barheim, which you can get to shortly after Raithwall's tomb, if I remember correctly.
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Mar 25, 2012 11:20
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Kaebora posted:But only after some events on Disc 2, if I remember correctly. I spent a bunch of time on disc 1 going back and forth and never spotting the guy, then got him the first time I went back after Disc 2 events.
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Mar 25, 2012 14:28
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KataraniSword posted:I might be confusing the Deathbringer and the Demonbane. I do know you get one of the two from a random chest in that temple with the Demon Wall, if and only if you destroy it the first time you see it. It's more that there are two walls: one required for plot progression, and another harder one that you're intended to run from the first time when going through for Plot. (You can go back later and kill the harder one at your leisure. Think of it as an easy optional boss.) Killing the harder one unlocks an extra room in the tomb, and in that room *might* be a chest which *might* contain the sword in question. (Oh, FF12, how wonderful your chest mechanics are.) I guess my point is, you don't *have* to blow it up the very first time you encounter it instead of running away. You can just come back later. Of course, by the time you're strong enough to handle it easily, the sword probably won't be terribly interesting any more: it's very much a midgame weapon.
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Mar 25, 2012 16:11
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Vil posted:It's more that there are two walls: one required for plot progression, and another harder one that you're intended to run from the first time when going through for Plot. (You can go back later and kill the harder one at your leisure. Think of it as an easy optional boss.) That chest doesn't appear at all unless you destroy the Demon Wall the first time. The rest of them do, but that one doesn't. Oh, FF12's chest mechanics. 
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Mar 25, 2012 19:50
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This is why I steal Deathbringers from Ithuno. I am never the slave of FFXII's chest mechanics. Also the damage formula for swords code:
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Mar 25, 2012 20:02
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Nah, the wall just affects whether or not you can *get to it*. Though a bit of googling does show me that you're not the first person to suggest such a thing about having to beat it on the first try... and also that others besides myself have experience to disprove it. Which is reassuring to me, as my memory is failing in my old age, and it's nice to have something to go on besides "I don't think I had that issue when I played this myself years ago". The dilemma is that it's one of those chests that may or may not spawn in the first place on any given visit to the room (and you have to walk three rooms away to give it another chance to spawn). So, agreed on the FF12's chest mechanics bit, just a different aspect of it. While there are some exceptionally bullshit chests in this game (Zodiac Spear being the most famous), this one is just standard bullshit: chance to spawn, chance to contain an item, chance to contain the item you want.http://ff12.ffsky.cn/map/map_jp_eg_17.htm 70% chance to spawn, 55% chance to contain an item (that is, 45% chance to contain money) if it spawns, 50% chance to contain Demonsbane if it spawns and contains an item. Overall 19.25% chance of getting a Demonsbane on any given attempt. Which in the grand scheme of FF12 bullshit is not half bad.
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Mar 25, 2012 20:27
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