Let's discuss Devil May Cry and whine about the upcoming reboot

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Mahuum Aqoha: Jan 15, 2004; SHEPARD!
Do it for the universe!; Fun Shoe

I haven't played any of the Devil May Cry games, but I sold my 360 last fall so I can't get the HD collection. Are 3 and 4 on the PC any good? I've got an action game itch that needs scratching.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 17:07

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 22:20

Spermando: Jun 13, 2009

The port of DMC3 is an absolute mess, but DMC4 on PC is the superior version.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 17:17

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

ThePhenomenalBaby posted:

I have two predictions on what this game will achieve on release.

1. It'll be the best Ninja Theory game.

2. It will be better than Devil May Cry 2

Anything else that it actually accomplishes will be a pleasant surprise.

Realizing this is likely true just lifted my spirits. Game'll be worth playing at the very least.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 17:36

Azure_Horizon: Mar 27, 2010; by Reene

Ryaomon posted:

http://www.siliconera.com/2012/03/01/dmc-devil-may-crys-dante-grew-up-in-orphanages-run-by-demons/

Holy poo poo my sides hurt.

Sounds better than your typical DMC plot.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves here.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 21:19

dat fukkin dog!!: Dec 17, 2008; I can't wait to touch myself on the 14th, which in the United States of the Americas is VALENTINE'S DAY just like Skullgirls and short skirts and oh my god oh so excited.

Azure_Horizon posted:

Sounds better than your typical DMC plot.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves here.

Nobody wanted a "better plot" in DMC. Everyone was just fine watching dante run down buildings and dance around

# ? Mar 4, 2012 21:25

Revitalized: Sep 13, 2007; A free custom title is a free custom title; Lipstick Apathy

dat fukkin dog!! posted:

Nobody wanted a "better plot" in DMC. Everyone was just fine watching dante run down buildings and dance around

Scenes like Dante test running the Lucifer and rolling out Pandora's Box for the first time compensate for anything you could ask for in a DMC plot.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 21:33

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Azure_Horizon posted:

Sounds better than your typical DMC plot.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves here.

That is sort of the problem.

DMC's goofy-rear end plots worked because they existed in deference to the gameplay. They existed to justify the crazy and often nonsensical stuff Dante could do in the game. This is most noticable in the later games where he can do almost everything in-game that he can in cutscenes. Nobody wanted a deep and serious plot from DMC, they want a drat game which is willing to be ridiculous and arcadey.

There's a pretty good chance that this isn't going to be like that because they're going to want to make their goofy plot a centerpiece of the game and it would violate the spirit of the story for Dante to get an electric-shooting bat guitar. It sounds like it is going to be an entire game of "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul WITHLIIIIIIIGHT!"

Not to mention that doing a plot about an abused child who was tortured in foster care after being abandoned by his father and is now lashing out at society is generally not subject matter that meshes well was "crazy stylish fun." It's a lose/lose situation because either the story is well-done (in which case it's probably going to be depressing as poo poo because, once again, abused child lashing out at a society that failed him) or it's going to be wacky and silly in which case making it about an abused child lashing out at society is in pretty poor taste.

(And yeah, I know, it's probably looking too deep at it, but having friends who had serious issues in foster care, using their problems to justify your "adult storyline" that sounds like it was written like a 13 year old pisses me off.)

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 4, 2012

# ? Mar 4, 2012 21:42

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

We just want to see Dante do cool things and be able to play as him doing cool things. Most people don't play DMC for the stories, which vary from "acceptable" to "bad"; it's for the thrill of charging into a group of enemies, launching them in the air with your sword, keeping them aloft with bullets, only to punch the poo poo out of them when they land and then blowing them up with a missle launcher.

It's playing the videogame equivalent of a B-movie. The story is just an excuse for the action. It's story is pap, what matters is the gameplay.

Having a gritty ~~Legendary~~ Dark Knight-esque reboot is pointless, if it's to the gameplay detriment.

That said, I agree with others, that it'll probably be the best game Ninja Theory has made, mechanically.

[e]: And given the choice between a game featuring campy faux-melodrama, and another with juvenile attempts at being edgy, I'll stick with camp any day. :colbert:

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 4, 2012

# ? Mar 4, 2012 21:45

Transient People: Dec 22, 2011; "When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

ImpAtom posted:

That is sort of the problem.

DMC's goofy-rear end plots worked because they existed in deference to the gameplay. They existed to justify the crazy and often nonsensical stuff Dante could do in the game. This is most noticable in the later games where he can do almost everything in-game that he can in cutscenes. Nobody wanted a deep and serious plot from DMC, they want a drat game which is willing to be ridiculous and arcadey.

There's a pretty good chance that this isn't going to be like that because they're going to want to make their goofy plot a centerpiece of the game and it would violate the spirit of the story for Dante to get an electric-shooting bat guitar. It sounds like it is going to be an entire game of "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul WITHLIIIIIIIGHT!"

Not to mention that doing a plot about an abused child who was tortured in foster care after being abandoned by his father and is now lashing out at society is generally not subject matter that meshes well was "crazy stylish fun." It's a lose/lose situation because either the story is well-done (in which case it's probably going to be depressing as poo poo because, once again, abused child lashing out at a society that failed him) or it's going to be wacky and silly in which case making it about an abused child lashing out at society is in pretty poor taste.

(And yeah, I know, it's probably looking too deep at it, but having friends who had serious issues in foster care, using their problems to justify your "adult storyline" that sounds like it was written like a 13 year old pisses me off.)

The counterpoint here is that all that silly backstory opens up room for really cool levels. With a minor amount of handwaving, you now have a reason to visit a creepy as gently caress orphanage and mix in horror with badass action scenes where you focus on keepin' it Stylish. I'm not saying it couldn't be done better, but any excuse to get some cool levels to play in is good in my book.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 22:20

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Transient People posted:

Stuff

There's ways of being subtle about it though. The other DMCs tell us practically nothing about Dante or Vergil's childhood, but what they reveal says everything that has to be said.

But yeah, trippy levels are a plus in any game.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 22:32

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Not exactly new, but here's the full quotes for new Dante's backstory and weapons:

Dante posted:

DmC�s Dante is a young man who has no respect for authority or indeed society in general. Dante knows that he is not human, but also that he is not like the demons that have tormented him throughout his life. Caught between worlds, he feels like an outcast.

Dante grew up in various institutions, orphanages, youth correction facilities and foster homes but these were mostly operated by demons and often resulted in torture and violence. Dante has therefore developed a deep hatred of demons and authority in general but tries to stay incognito. He sides with the little guy, the victims of what he sees as an unfair society.

Yep.

Rebellion and Ebony & Ivory posted:

In Game
The Rebellion sword was given to Dante by his father Sparda as a weapon with which he could protect himself against the demons that hunt him. How Dante came in to possession of Ebony and Ivory or where they come from is unknown.

Design Ethos
The design philosophy behind both Rebellion and Ebony & Ivory is to create the impression that they were crafted a long, long time ago and since their creation they have sent innumerable demons to their doom.

Ebony & Ivory have straight, clean looking barrels that make them look like contemporary firearms, while the addition of ornate embossing is used to give the guns a feeling of mystique and uniqueness. As you move into the grip you can see that the guns have a more fluid, liquid-like look that adds further mystery and a demonic flavor to their design.

Rebellion is designed to look like a powerful sword, with the detailing in the handle giving it a feeling of historical significance coupled with a demonic heritage. The same design ethos that was used for the Ebony & Ivory grips is also true for Rebellion�s hilt, making the weapons match stylistically.

Shame the sword looks pretty meh compared to the guns.

source:http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2012/02/29/dig_these_new_dmc_screens,_weapon_art

# ? Mar 6, 2012 22:27

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

An article of possible minor interest for you all:

quote:

DmC director didn't ask the designers to make Dante look like him
"They'd throw me out the window"

Tameem Antoniades, chief creative ninja and co-founder of Ninja Theory, has responded to suggestions that the studio's redesign of Devil May Cry's Dante is based on him.

Speaking in a candid interview with PSM3, Antoniades was asked what he thought of online chatter about the reboot. Among the internet sourced drivel was the theory that Dante is modelled on him, which he quickly dismissed after a little self-deprecating humour.

"What can I say? He's a decade and a half younger than me, way better looking... The only thing he's got is black hair. And he's male," he said.

"I didn't design the character. I didn't go to our designers and say, 'I think it's a really good idea if we make the new Dante look like me, because I want to be in the game.' They'd laugh at me. They'd throw me out the window."

In the interview he also said the "original concepts were very close to the original DMC, taking mixtures of the previous four games and creating a new interpretation".

Apparently Capcom wasn't too fond of Ninja Theory's safe redesign and demanded something a little more unique.

"Capcom said something which they've said to us often, which is, 'if it was going to be the same as the old DMC, why would we give this project to you guys? The reason is to surprise us, to come up with a reinvention. To create something we couldn't have conceived in Japan.'"

source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/339193/dmc-director-didnt-ask-the-designers-to-make-dante-look-like-him/

# ? Mar 8, 2012 22:15

Bonaventure: Jun 23, 2005; by sebmojo

God, the current Japanese game industry is the biggest group of self-flagellants since the Black Death.

# ? Mar 8, 2012 22:23

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Bonaventure posted:

God, the current Japanese game industry is the biggest group of self-flagellants since the Black Death.

I take it your referring to what that Capcom developer said as well?

quote:

At the Game Developers Conference, a day after Fez creator Phil Fish responsed to an audience question with "modern Japanese games just suck," renowned ex-Capcom developer Keiji Inafune delivered his own damning judgement of the modern Japanese videogame industry.

Speaking through a translator, Inafune bemoaned what he sees as a lack of innovation in the nation's output: "What happened to Japanese games? Where are they going? Will they continue to go downhill? What are the Japanese creators of today thinking and where are they heading?"

At the 2009 Tokyo Game Show, Inafune stated that the Japanese games industry was "over", and today he discussed the negative reaction and shock he got from the Japanese industry for these remarks. "'How dare you say our industry and our games are dead?' they said."

However, in the years that followed, Inafune has observed many of his critics coming around to agree with him. "They�re in a situation where they realise perhaps my prediction was true," he said.

For Inafune, who was still at Capcom at the time he made the remarks, Capcom was the only Japanese developer keeping up with the Western creations at the time. "[We] thought on a global level," he said. "We were able to see our own industry through an unfiltered lens." This understanding of the 'global level' is what Inafune believes most Japanese developers are lacking: "So I want to light a fire under Japan before it is too late."

Inafune explained how he became "a little ashamed" when he travels overseas because these days, "Japanese games are becoming a blast from the past." Just like "The Beatles were great!" or "Steve McQueen was a great actor!" Japanese games are now merely "great, great memories."

But just as The Beatles will never release a new album, and Steve McQueen will never act in a new film, Inafune thinks the Japanese games industry is damaging itself by an over-reliance on brands popularised in previous decades.

"I feel like we rarely see new creations from Japan anymore," he said. "We just stick to our memories and we re-release HD versions of games. That is the upper limit of what we are showing to our users today and that is not what our users want."

However, Inafune admits that even he is guilty of sometimes falling back on the pre-existing brands for support. Just yesterday, he explained, a fan asked him for a signature and he immediately, without thinking, scribbled a doodle of Mega Man.

But there is a middle ground, Inafune believes, where the past can be respected and remembered, but does not become a crutch. "I don�t want to get carried away," he said. "You may never see another Mega Man doodle from me after today."

Japan has become slothful on its own successes, believes Inafune. But he understands that this is just human, "We as humans don�t want to take the hard route." After decades of success, it was all too easy for Japanese developers to use the existing brands as a crutch. But, Inafune insisted, Japanese developers must start forcing themselves down the hard route if the country's videogames are to improve.

Inafune gives the example of the first Resident Evil; many within and without Capcom thought it would fail, but the studio, determined, worked on and created a massive success. He contrasted this with his own work on Mega Man Legends - a Mega Man game just trying to be another Mega Man game - and how it was an utter failure.

Inafune says this taught him a priceless lesson: "Establishing a brand takes a lot of work, but at the same time you cannot rely too much on that brand." Inafune compared the state of the Japanese games industry to Apple. "If Apple tried to stick to the glory of the old days with their old computers, they probably wouldn�t be around today," he said. "But Steve Jobs chose to develop the brand and not just maintain it."

This was Inafune�s main plea, that he repeated several times. "Japan must understand the importance of rebuilding our brands, and we must do it now," he urged. "It will be too late when our brands hold no power.

"Time is running out, and we should have realised this when I made that bold statement a few years ago."

source:http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-2012-time-running-out-japan-says-inafune

Bring out yer dead!

# ? Mar 8, 2012 22:34

FedEx Mercury: Jan 7, 2004; Me bad posting? That's unpossible!; Lipstick Apathy

Bonaventure posted:

God, the current Japanese game industry is the biggest group of self-flagellants since the Black Death.

I can't think of any other place in the world where this kind of thing would be even close to acceptable: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/the-truth-metal-gear/725032

This is a 30 minute professionally produced and edited documentary wherein the team that made the scrapped version of Meta Gear Rising was put in front of the camera to explain how they failed their supervisors for all the world to see.

# ? Mar 8, 2012 23:22

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Only tagently related to DMC, but it's nice to see Daniel Southworth and Reuben Langdon kicking rear end together again.

# ? Mar 12, 2012 01:16

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

NEWS!

An interview from PSM3 with Tameem Antoniades

Interview posted:

PSM: First we're going to read you some pearls of wisdom from the internet; "DMC DOESN'T NEED A loving REBOOT" [sic].

TA: "Nothing needs a reboot unless that reboot works. Look at Batman. The parallel to the Batman reboot was Catwoman. Nobody needed that, but when it works it can change the course of a franchise in a positive way. It can make it survive.

The deciscion as to whether DMC needed a reboot or not; it's irrelevant what my opinion is because that decision was Capcom's. They felt it neede something which is why they not only decided to take a bold step and reinvent it, but to give it to a non-Japanese dev. They had their reasons and that was our mandate. They wanted a reinvention - a reinterpretation - and that's what we went ahead and did.

PSM: Much of the argument surley rest on whether DMC4 was considered a dead end for the series, Was it?

TA: There was a feeling from some of the guys at Capcom that it could continue the way it was, but that there were certain tropes that were being- I don't know how to put this... I think when you compare it to where a lot of games have arrived at - Western games in particular, where levels feel more open and the world feels more grounded - it felt like DMC was a little stucj in its ways. It needed to be let loose. That's what we were told as part of our mandate to reinvent it.

At the same time, Inafune-san was at capcom and suggested an idea that we should hold on to - that if it was a movie released here in the UK or America, what would that movie look like? That defined the approach we took. Because if you took DMC the game and literally translated that into a movie it wouldn't really work [well, duh].

PSM: Could some of the animosity come from your strong idenity as a studio?

TA: We've pushed a strong philosphy in the past, which is that stories matter. That can be irksome to some players. Even recently, David Jaffe was proclaiming that stories have no place in games. I think that there is a place for stories in games, and when it works it elevates the experiance. But that's an assumption that if you're going to put stories in games, other parts have to suffer which I don't think is the case at all.

*CoughEnslaved'splatformingcough*

quote:

TA cont: It's also that we stated off as an Xbox dev, moved over to the PS3 and back to multiplatform. That to some people is a horrendous betrayl...But for an independant developer like us, our interest is in making games and trying to reach as many people as possible. We have no loyalty to bits of plastic and circuitry.

PSM: More internet: "They won't have a chance of selling five million units".

TA: Usually the worst creative crimes are made when you're trying to make a game for someone else - some perceived demographic that, in all likelihood, doesn't actually exist. From my point of view there's only one way to try and make a successful game, and that's to make the game you want to play. A game that everyone involved in is proud of. So from that POV, I don't care if it sells 1000 units or 2 million. I believe the time you spend making something has to be worth while. You've got 20 productive years of work in your life; if you're gonna spend 10 or 15% of it on something, make it worthwhile.

PSM: "I'm sceptical of how this game will perform. How much will tear, how the framerate will hold up."

TA: I think that comes from the fact that Heavenly Sword didn't hit 30fps at times. Then, when we moved to Unreal, we pushed Enslaved out in half the time of Heavenly Sword, if not less. And that one ahd some framerate issues which we regret; we should have held on and refused to release the build to the publisher until we hit that framerate. On this game, we've got a commitment all round that we've got to hit it. And we've made sure that the game runs at a good solid rate thorough development. So I don't think that's an issue. The people who've been testing this game say it's really responsive, and these are people who know DMC.

PSM: "Why unreal rather than MT Framework?"

TA: There was a brief discussion about using MT, but it came down to the amount of time we set ourselves to make this game. We didn't want to spend a year learning a new engine. We're already deeply experianced with Unreal. That just meant we could hit the ground runningand focus on the gameplay and content without wrestling with the technology.

PSM: Did you decide at the outset to ignore the vocal minority? people who often sound more informed than they are?

TA: When we annoucend the game, all we relased was the trailer and a 2D portriat art of Dante. That's when the bulk of the criticism came in. We had't actually demonstrated any in-game video at all. So a lot of that's just hot air at that point. You can't steer the game project based on that.

People form a relationship with the series, and if that gets broken or bastardised, people get upset. That's understandable. so I don't dismiss it. We've all been there; the new Star Wars stuff, it's changed a lot but not added anything. I think we've added stuff. We've added interesting things to the series that you wouldn't have got from Capcom Japan. If we do out jobs right, you'll get a good,, fun game with interesting angles that bring something fresh to DMC.

Like abusive orphanages :v:

quote:

PSM: "Do you regret the way Dante was unveiled to people?"

TA: I don't know what would have happend if we'd have revealed him now. Would we ahve got the same level of vitriol? I don't know. But it's good that we've got the bulk of that out of the way, and can move on. Until you meet that character and see him, and hear him talk, and see the scenes he's in, you don't get him. he's not a comic book pin-up in the traditional sense.

"I smoulder with generic angst."

The next part is where he talks about how the design wasn't based on him, but we've already heard that part.

Here's a section on how they came about Dante's redesign.

quote:

This new Dante is really the latest in a long line of Ninja Theory prototypes which, at first, were closer to Capcom's original. "It worked across three territories; us in the UK, and Capcoms Japan and America. Our original concepts were very close to the original DMC, takin mixtures of the previous four games and creating a new interpretation, but very much in that space. And Capcom said "if it was going to be the same as the old DMC, why would we give this project ot you guyss? The reason is to surprise us, to come up with a reinvention. to create something we couldn't have conceived in Japan."

At one point we were asked to forget about the design of the charater and just come up with images about Dante at key moments of his life. So we've got 100 images of this character at different ages, in different situations, different emotional states.

One of the best was of him ripping open this big wound in his chest in front of a mirror, seeing this heart beating, and realising he's not human

HAHA! Oh gently caress me! Crawling in my skin! This chest wound will not heal!

quote:

Cont:
We did all these really presicent images to define the character and then looped back round to; Okay, now he's cool. Now we know why he doesn't give a poo poo. We know his history. What does he look like?
"It's a way of designing a character we've never done. And that's when Capcom were finally happy with it."

The amount I post in this thread, I know I'm a grumpy pessismitic twat, and I'm sure most of you all think so to. But seriously. Look at this poo poo. Holy loving christ.

quote:

PSM: "Only DMC fans are going to buy this. It's not going to win a new audience."

TA: I don't know if that's true. So far it's the fans who've been vociferous about not wanting to play it. It's the people who haven't been interested in DMC since the first ones who are starting to get interested. But I'm not a marketeer. Philosophically, the way to make a successful game is to belive in waht you're doing, then hope sales follow. I'm not trying to design around what I think peole will want. That's where you get into creative bankruptcy. That, more than anything, will kill a series.

PSM "It's never going to win over Bayonetta combat-wise, so why even try?"

TA: We never set out to beat Bayonetta in combat. [except for that part where you said you were competeing to be as good as Bayonetta] We're aiming to make the best DMC in the series. We want out combat to be better than the rest. We want it to be accessible; to have all the arcan hardcore depths that you've seen in DMC.

When Itsuno-san from Capcom and his crew come out, we spend days going over the combat system and things they've previously added th earlier entires that you won't find on GameFAQs. But in terms of feel, we're aiming this as something like a movie. Something with rules that make sense; that has character that feel real, that you empathise with. For that reason, we're not looking at Bayonetta.

Nice subtle jab at Bayonetta, you smug dick. Bayonetta may not have realistic character or rules, but it's got it where it counts.

quote:

PSM Are you trying to prove something to yourself as a designer with this game?

TA: DMC is a hardcore game, and that's where it should stay. Itsuno said the general philospohy of DMC, is that the more you give it, the more you get out of it. In DMC the philosphy is to constantly give you harder modes of play, more depth and experiance, and more chances to excel. That doens't mean you have to exclude everything else. And I think it should be a hardcore story. Every game we've done so far has been a teen rated game, and this one's not.

I get frustrated that, despite all there being violence and blood in gaming, the stories are all so very safe. your average nobel or play has the prerogative to push boundaries and break grounds in some fashion, but in games that seems to be ignored. So that's what I'd love to do with DMC.

If we're to judge the quality of the story from what little has been revealed thus far, then that's because being "edgy" doesn't actually mean, pushing new boundaries. And, honestly, who could give a flying gently caress about how brilliant this story will/will not be. Is it really so much to ask for a flimsy excuse just to do cool things with a sword? DMC isn't Citizen Kane, nor should it be.

quote:

PSM: Have you binned all the character archetypes from the earlier DMCs? Dare we say it, the massive tits?

TA: If it's true that the average console gamer is over 30 - which I totally believe - then you can't use those cheap tricks to titilate people into wanting to buy your game.

I've nothing against big tits - I'd rather have my head resting on a pair right now - but if you're goning to try and stimulate someone on different levels, there's better ways to do it. If you look at movie stars, the women people find really attractive are often not the ones with the biggest tits. It's attractive on a different level.

We did that in Enslaved with Trip. People loved her, not because she had big breasts and high heels, but because she felt like someone who could be your girlfriend. That to me is more attractive that a prostitute walking around with a big gun. Not to demean prostititues - it's a valid form of commerce.

PSM The game seems full of ideas. How smoothly are you able to iterate them when dealing with Japan and the US?

TA: I belive that the path to success is strewn with failure. The more you can close off dead ends, the more chance of you have of making something good. So we're quite happy to try as much as possible, as quickly as possible, before we get to the truth. And Capcom are very good at allowing us to do that, to make mistakes.

One of the ideas that came out of this was "The Malice", the world being a character. it was the idea of explaining why the demon doors appears when you have a fight. How do you explain that trope? [um, magic] One of the artists had the idea of the world being alive and trying to block you. Then we extended that into traversal, so you can pull out bits of the enviroment and move through it. We developed that idea, pushed it out, did some test and showed it to Capcom, and they lied it. In other instances, we've done the same and it's fallend flat. But that's the nature of things. Nobody got fired, it's part of the process.

PSM: "Were you keen to keep all those aspects seperate? It's one thing to have a novel traversal mechanic, quite another to mix it with a combat system.

TA: We've been trying to intergrate combat and traversal and Malice and all those bits into each other. We're trying to make a world that feels like it's contiguous and not seperated out into minigames. DMC's a combat game and that's what it's always going to be about. But if we can add some variety around the sides, I'm all for it.

Source: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/psm3-interview.10457/

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Mar 13, 2012

# ? Mar 13, 2012 04:37

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

I could not care less about the story (which seems like it was penned by a 14-year old that listens to too much Linkin Park) as long as the gameplay holds up. Antoniades is being kinda evasive about what the gameplay is actually going to be like, and that's a little worrying. Ninja Theory is really great when it comes to art direction and visual design, but are pretty bad at getting the feel of the gameplay right. Hopefully they were being led around by the collar by the boys over at Capcom a lot on this. Also, making GBS threads on Bayonetta? Not a good idea when you're trying to sell a game to action game fans, Tameem.

The only thing I can really comment on with any certainty is how the game looks right now. Despite all the angsty story bullshit it looks beautiful so far, but if the gameplay blows I'm not buying it. Another thing that pisses me off is that they're trying to make the game "like a Western action movie". Listen, if you want to make a game like that, make it a separate IP because DMC is so incongruous with that idea (well, unless it's an 80's movie maybe) that you're going to wind up completely tearing the whole mutha' down to make it what you want. I guess the worst thing that could happen here is that the game sucks and sells well- would pretty much ensure we'd never get another solid DMC title for a really long time.

# ? Mar 13, 2012 16:00

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

quote:

...Western games in particular, where levels feel more open and the world feels more grounded - it felt like DMC was a little stucj in its ways.

quote:

Something with rules that make sense; that has character that feel real, that you empathise with. For that reason, we're not looking at Bayonetta.

Seriously? In what possible way do they think anyone is playing DMC for a grounded and realistic world? Half the reason it is fun is because it doesn't even trying to be realistic or grounded, it tries to be insane and meshes that with its gameplay.

# ? Mar 13, 2012 16:12

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

There's a possible ID on Dante's new VA and mocap, some guy named Tim Phillips.

Of course, nothing has been confirmed yet, but it would appear that he finished some project with Ninja Theory some 10 months ago.

There are also pictures of him holding some baton object for mocap, and one of him in a mocap studio with Tameem, and Alex what'shisface from Capcom.

Apparently his voice also sounds similar to Dante's from the Fight trailer.

Take all this with a grain of salt however.

Source:http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/dmc-motion-capture-cast-and-crew.10543/

# ? Mar 24, 2012 23:35

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Pesky Splinter posted:

NEWS!

An interview from PSM3 with Tameem Antoniades

Now, I don't want to sound overly incendiary or insulting, but these people are the dumbest motherfuckers that ever hosed their own mothers

Has there been a single piece of PR released that hasn't consisted Ninja Theory doing a little happy dance about how they're going to revolutionize the storytelling of Devil May loving Cry?

# ? Mar 24, 2012 23:40

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Oxxidation posted:

Now, I don't want to sound overly incendiary or insulting, but these people are the dumbest motherfuckers that ever hosed their own mothers

Has there been a single piece of PR released that hasn't consisted Ninja Theory doing a little happy dance about how they're going to revolutionize the storytelling of Devil May loving Cry?

No.

It's mostly consisted of telling people to get over the design (WHICH TOTALLY WASN'T CHANGED DUE TO THE BACKLASH GUYS, YOU GOTTA BELIEVE US!1!), how great this story is going to be and how it's going to set the world ablaze (they're pushing it over to rather ridiculous levels of grimdark and attempts to be edgy), and how deep and complex this battle system is...which we've seen two rather unimpressive WIP videos of. They also seem to be treating the fact that Angels in this may not be good and maybe morally ambiguious, as a somewhat novel idea.

# ? Mar 24, 2012 23:54

Vargs: Mar 27, 2010

Pesky Splinter posted:

They also seem to be treating the fact that Angels in this may not be good and maybe morally ambiguious, as a somewhat novel idea.

Dunno what you're talking about, we've never fought angels in a DMC-esque action game.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 00:04

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Hey, hey guys. What is the guys that people usually think of as good.... what if they're the BAD GUYS?

It is a twist nobody will ever see coming. Especially with angels. Man, I should get a writing deal.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 00:20

Chucat: Apr 14, 2006

ImpAtom posted:

That is sort of the problem.

DMC's goofy-rear end plots worked because they existed in deference to the gameplay.

I seriously thought the plot of DMC1 was Dante going to a castle that just had its previous owners die and Trish was some real estate agent who wanted him to clean it up so it could be put back on the market.

Vargs posted:

Dunno what you're talking about, we've never fought angels in a DMC-esque action game.

There's also Fallen, gently caress those things.

Seriously though I think I'm some weird abberation since I loved the first game, quite liked the third, but I absolutely despise Bayonetta. I think it probably had something to do with how Dante had an extremely small number of powerful and flexible options, as well as being mobile but slow made the entire game really methodical and careful to me. Tthe fights sort of reflected that in how they all felt like puzzles (especially Nightmare and the Shadows).

To me the later games (Bayonetta included) gave me an increasing number of tools that all seemed to be too flexible and had way too much overlap, the ones that seemed like they were designed for utility were relegated to gimmicks or combo extensions, and the enemy design went from being either a mobile target dummy or puzzles you have to solve to be able to get mad combos and bonuses to either a generic grunt that had a special move (The Seven Hells in DMC3) or something that just completely neuters the pace and feel of the game (Fallen, Dullhan's, those weird squid things.)

I just want a "slow and methodical" action game like DMC1 with a small amount of really well thought out weapons and enemies, but they seem to be getting away from that now.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 00:28

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Chucat posted:

I seriously thought the plot of DMC1 was Dante going to a castle that just had its previous owners die and Trish was some real estate agent who wanted him to clean it up so it could be put back on the market.

This is now my personal canon. :allears:

Chucat posted:

Seriously though I think I'm some weird abberation since I loved the first game, quite liked the third, but I absolutely despise Bayonetta. I think it probably had something to do with how Dante had an extremely small number of powerful and flexible options, as well as being mobile but slow made the entire game really methodical and careful to me. Tthe fights sort of reflected that in how they all felt like puzzles (especially Nightmare and the Shadows).

To me the later games (Bayonetta included) gave me an increasing number of tools that all seemed to be too flexible and had way too much overlap, the ones that seemed like they were designed for utility were relegated to gimmicks or combo extensions, and the enemy design went from being either a mobile target dummy or puzzles you have to solve to be able to get mad combos and bonuses to either a generic grunt that had a special move (The Seven Hells in DMC3) or something that just completely neuters the pace and feel of the game (Fallen, Dullhan's, those weird squid things.)

I just want a "slow and methodical" action game like DMC1 with a small amount of really well thought out weapons and enemies, but they seem to be getting away from that now.

I s'pose that's just the direction the series has taken (took?)? DMC1 definitely has an atmosphere and ambience that the others lack. And I can certainly understand someone not liking Bayonetta for many reasons.

I'd disagree slightly that the enemy design has moved towards the grunt with a special move and neutered pace enemies for say DMC4 (though certain Bayonetta and DMC3 foes though I'd agree with you on; gently caress the Fallen, and gently caress Gracious and Glorious).

And DMC2's enemies were just sacks of HP rather than having a set gimmick.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 00:58

NieR Occomata: Jan 18, 2009; Glory to Mankind.

The problem with Ninja Theory proclaiming how the DmC reboot is gonna be story-based, beyond the fact that DMC needs a story about as much as I need a hole in my head, is the fact that Ninja Theory are really, really loving bad at telling good stories. Like, it'd be one thing if it turned out that, hey, Obsidian or Cavia or Supergiantgames were penning the story for the new DMC game, which although still unnecessary is at least somewhat enticing, but we're getting the hacks behind "Journey to the West, but with a romance! And a terrible twist at the end!", "Girl fights army of bad guys to fulfill ancient prophecy!", and uh that's it.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 01:12

Alteisen: Jun 4, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Really old article but it involves another hack and slash game.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/84745/hayashi-ninja-gaiden-ii-and-bayonetta-already-outdated/

The guy that made the disaster that NG3 is says Bayonetta and NG2 are outdated, are all the people that work on these kind of games delusional?

# ? Mar 25, 2012 01:27

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

Alteisen posted:

Really old article but it involves another hack and slash game.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/84745/hayashi-ninja-gaiden-ii-and-bayonetta-already-outdated/

The guy that made the disaster that NG3 is says Bayonetta and NG2 are outdated, are all the people that work on these kind of games delusional?

I think I read it in another thread, but isn't that the one where the main character feels bad about killing people, and then mindlessly kills a whole room of people less than 10 secs later without a shed of remorse?

# ? Mar 25, 2012 01:31

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Obsidian's Devil May Cry ends with Dante convincing God to fight alongside him against both Heaven and Hell in order to rewrite the cosmic afterlife through a SSStylish combo.

I know that Japanese developers have been stuck in a creative rut for a while, but interviews like these are convincing me they're taking the entirely wrong way in revitalizing their market.

toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Mar 25, 2012

# ? Mar 25, 2012 01:33

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Alteisen posted:

Really old article but it involves another hack and slash game.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/84745/hayashi-ninja-gaiden-ii-and-bayonetta-already-outdated/

The guy that made the disaster that NG3 is says Bayonetta and NG2 are outdated, are all the people that work on these kind of games delusional?

It's true. Fun games are outdated. Multiple weapons? Outdated. Coherent tone? SUPER outdated.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 01:51

Alteisen: Jun 4, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Pesky Splinter posted:

I think I read it in another thread, but isn't that the one where the main character feels bad about killing people, and then mindlessly kills a whole room of people less than 10 secs later without a shed of remorse?

Yep, Ryu's left arm is all hosed up because of all the people he's killed, which makes no sense from a story point since Ryu kills bad guys and has saved the world twice. After you kill enough people your arm glows red, you then press Y and the game auto kills about 4 enemies for you.

So your penance for killing "innocents" is another tool to kill them easier.

This is on top of the fact that the combat in NG3 is significantly dumbed down, the game is much easier and it has a multiplayer that is the very definition of tacked(which requires an online code I might add) and it has don't get lost button(in a linear game).

Yep, Bayonetta and NG2 are 2 ancient pieces of poo poo next to the masterpiece that is NG3.

# ? Mar 25, 2012 02:28

FedEx Mercury: Jan 7, 2004; Me bad posting? That's unpossible!; Lipstick Apathy

Anybody going to pick up the HD collection next week? I'm strongly considering it, since it's such a pain to get emulation working right on my PC. It is pricy though, $40 for two games I already own :I

# ? Mar 29, 2012 08:52

randombattle: Oct 16, 2008; This hand of mine shines and roars! It's bright cry tells me to grasp victory!

Man all this is just making me wonder when we are gonna see a Bayonetta sequel or something along those lines.

Everything Ninja Theory has does has been completely unimpressive, boring, or flat out bad. I really cant imagine them doing much better with this when it is basically the same kind of game they have shown they can't do so well and sounds like it's focusing on every area no one ever asked about.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 09:13

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

Considering how Operation Raccoon City is getting a bad rap, I'm losing a lot of faith in Capcom's ability to choose good western developers for their franchises. This remake is going to vindicate their push for western studios or condemn it, and the lack of substantial gameplay footage isn't helping.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 13:51

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

notZaar posted:

Anybody going to pick up the HD collection next week? I'm strongly considering it, since it's such a pain to get emulation working right on my PC. It is pricy though, $40 for two games I already own :I

Hopefully. But I might wait and see what the general recepetion is first; bugs, glitches, that sort of thing.

randombattle posted:

Man all this is just making me wonder when we are gonna see a Bayonetta sequel or something along those lines.

Everything Ninja Theory has does has been completely unimpressive, boring, or flat out bad. I really cant imagine them doing much better with this when it is basically the same kind of game they have shown they can't do so well and sounds like it's focusing on every area no one ever asked about.

As much as I'd love a Bayonetta 2, I'm not sure where they could really go with it. Unless they go the DMC2 route and make Bayonetta say very little, scowl constantly and have gameplay mechanics that don't work for the game, but will be vastly improved upon for Bayonetta 3 (which will be a prequel, and better recieved). And then Bayonetta 4 will come along, and we won't play as Bayonetta for half the game, only for Platinum Games to reboot it by outsourcing it to a western developer, where she'll smoke and have been raised in an abusive orphange run by angels, because original flavour Bayonetta wasn't cool enough. And she'll look like the director. :tinfoil:

I can't speak for Heavenly Sword, but Enslaved isn't what I'd call a bad game. It's an average game with some really bad gameplay decision, and a story of questionable quality.

It looks fantastic, and the voice work and animation is fluid, and the characters are likable, if wildly inconsistant, it's just the combat and the platforming sections that really really let it down. I mean, if I can't fall to my death for the most part, and it locks me onto a set path, then why bother with the platforms? It's just a straight pathway. The combat in the game is really loving wretched though. Monkey takes too long to dodge out of his animations, and there's a slight delay from me pushing the button to him actually moving or attacking. Then there's the awful camera which likes to work in the worst possible way to make it so you can't see what you're fighting.

The combo system is also useless and unrewarding, since you'll only ever just spam the regular attack button.

The actual story itself starts off pretty strong, but then just plateaus and becomes really dull and overwrought. As I said, the characters are likable, but they can't seem to make up their mind on what they want to be. To qoute from the Zero Punctuation review:

"Tripitaka, are you a vulnerable flower, or a sassy action girl?...And Monkey, are you a feral, amoral, beast, or a put-upon, cynical, everyman?"

Hopefully DMC or working with the DMC team will teach them that, yes, they are infact making a game, not trying to make a playable movie with a really mediocre story.

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Mar 29, 2012

# ? Mar 29, 2012 14:03

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Pesky Splinter posted:

As much as I'd love a Bayonetta 2, I'm not sure where they could really go with it. Unless they go the DMC2 route and make Bayonetta say very little, scowl constantly and have gameplay mechanics that don't work for the game, but will be vastly improved upon for Bayonetta 3 (which will be a prequel, and better recieved). And then Bayonetta 4 will come along, and we won't play as Bayonetta for half the game, only for Platinum Games to reboot it by outsourcing it to a western developer, where she'll smoke and have been raised in an abusive orphange run by angels, because original flavour Bayonetta wasn't cool enough. And she'll look like the director.

I can't speak for Heavenly Sword, but Enslaved isn't what I'd call a bad game. It's an average game with some really bad gameplay decision, and a story of questionable quality.

It looks fantastic, and the voice work and animation is fluid, and the characters are likable, if wildly inconsistant, it's just the combat and the platforming sections that really really let it down. I mean, if I can't fall to my death for the most part, and it locks me onto a set path, then why bother with the platforms? It's just a straight pathway. The combat in the game is really loving wretched though. Monkey takes too long to dodge out of his animations, and there's a slight delay from me pushing the button to him actually moving or attacking. Then there's the awful camera which likes to work in the worst possible way to make it so you can't see what you're fighting.

The combo system is also useless and unrewarding, since you'll only ever just spam the regular attack button.

The actual story itself starts off pretty strong, but then just plateaus and becomes really dull and overwrought. As I said, the characters are likable, but they can't seem to make up their mind on what they want to be. To qoute from the Zero Punctuation review:

"Tripitaka, are you a vulnerable flower, or a sassy action girl?...And Monkey, are you a feral, amoral, beast, or a put-upon, cynical, everyman?"

Hopefully DMC or working with the DMC team will teach them that, yes, they are infact making a game, not trying to make a playable movie with a really mediocre story.

Not to sound like a dick, but I don't really get how you get from "Enslaved isn't what I'd call a bad game" to talking about how every element of the actual interactive gameplay isn't very good.

# ? Mar 29, 2012 14:08

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

Pesky Splinter posted:

Hopefully DMC or working with the DMC team will teach them that, yes, they are infact making a game, not trying to make a playable movie with a really mediocre story.

They seemed to make a big deal about how they were getting help from Capcom Japan to nail down the DMC gameplay, so hopefully they just watched Ninja Theory like a hawk in that respect. Enslaved had great production values other than the gameplay- the art direction was particularly memorable for me. (But not enough to make me forget the crappy gameplay.) I guess how the gameplay stacks up in DmC will determine whether it's a rental or day 1 purchase for me.

Concerning a Bayonetta sequel I would be totally for it. Everything was so perfect in terms of the gameplay that they don't really need to change anything, just give us new venues to use the fantastic assets they already laid down. I refuse to believe the team that put that together is creatively tapped, based on the crazy poo poo that was in the game. However, I guess I would rather have an excellent new IP from Platinum than another Bayonetta game...

# ? Mar 29, 2012 14:32

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

ImpAtom posted:

Not to sound like a dick, but I don't really get how you get from "Enslaved isn't what I'd call a bad game" to talking about how every element of the actual interactive gameplay isn't very good.

You're not sounding like a dick, it's a fair point to make. :shobon:

How can I put this? Having played worse games than this, I just found the overall experience of it to be really really average, but with bits that I really gripe about, but somehow I still enjoyed it.

I think that it was more liking the characters, and getting lost in the visuals rather than the gameplay. So yeah, from a purely gameplay perspective, it is awful. And judging it but that, then yeah, it's a bad game. It's just I didn't mind it so much for whatever reason. I suppose I just enjoyed the overall experiance, even if the indiviual pieces that made it were kinda shabby.

I can't really find the words to explain it. :shobon:

# ? Mar 29, 2012 14:42

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 22:20

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Pesky Splinter posted:

You're not sounding like a dick, it's a fair point to make.

How can I put this? Having played worse games than this, I just found the overall experience of it to be really really average, but with bits that I really gripe about, but somehow I still enjoyed it.

I think that it was more liking the characters, and getting lost in the visuals rather than the gameplay. So yeah, from a purely gameplay perspective, it is awful. And judging it but that, then yeah, it's a bad game. It's just I didn't mind it so much for whatever reason. I suppose I just enjoyed the overall experiance, even if the indiviual pieces that made it were kinda shabby.

I can't really find the words to explain it.

No, I understand you. I felt pretty much the same way about Enslaved. It was shiny and likable enough that I could overlook the gameplay (and incredibly stupid ending and Pigsy and... okay, maybe I can't overlook a lot in retrospect.)

# ? Mar 29, 2012 14:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's discuss Devil May Cry and whine about the upcoming reboot

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