Wasteland 2: Apostles of Quarex welcomed! BETA IS OUT!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Wasteland 2: Apostles of Quarex welcomed! BETA IS OUT!

Blooshoo: May 15, 2004; I'm a newbie

http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/27/brian-fargo-talks-wasteland-2-abysmal-publisher-treatment-and-having-fun-again/ Fargo does a interview about wasteland stuff and the gaming business in general. Pretty interesting read.

# ? Mar 27, 2012 19:47

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 19, 2024 21:14

mixitwithblop: Feb 4, 2009; by elpintogrande

Megazver posted:

The only one I ever caught on my own:

Vampire Bloodlines Theme

Massive Attack - Angel

Yeah that one is a ridiculously similar. Picked up on it the first time I played the game. A friend walked in on me playing it and thought it was actually Massive Attack.

As a long time Massive Attack fan I don't have a problem with it.

# ? Mar 27, 2012 19:51

nessin: Feb 7, 2010

When it comes to sampling music from other artists: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120316/08413818131/bruce-springsteen-another-pirate-remixer.shtml

# ? Mar 27, 2012 19:54

Peas and Rice: Jul 14, 2004; Honor and profit.

Shadley Puffin posted:

Both the Redding track and The Stand OST are basically one big homage to the slide guitar master Ry Cooder and specifically his incomparable work from the film Paris, Texas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ymVaq3Fqk

Thanks for the link - I had no idea, and this is a loving great soundtrack.

# ? Mar 27, 2012 20:25

theblackw0lf: Apr 15, 2003; "...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Blooshoo posted:

http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/27/brian-fargo-talks-wasteland-2-abysmal-publisher-treatment-and-having-fun-again/ Fargo does a interview about wasteland stuff and the gaming business in general. Pretty interesting read.

Holy crap is this a fascinating but depressing read. Some stand-out quotes.

quote:

BF: There is more tension than you can believe. You would not believe the stories you hear about how developers are treated by publishers these days. It is abysmal.

MF: Why don�t we hear more about it�?

BF: Because they are afraid to talk, because they�ll never get another contract if they do. That�s why. You cannot believe� it�s awful. It�s really bad. You should try to dig in and get some stories out there. Look at the most recent one with those poor guys at Obsidian. They did Fallout: New Vegas, the ship date got moved up and, who does the QA on a project? The publisher is always in charge of QA. When a project goes out buggy, it�s not the developer. The developer never says, �I refuse to fix the bug,� or, �I don�t know how.� They never do that. It�s the publisher that does the QA, so if a product goes out buggy, it�s not the developer�s fault. So, (Fallout: New Vegas) goes out buggy and they didn�t do the QA, their ship date got moved up and they missed their metacritic rating by one point. Did they get a bonus? No. Do you think that�s fair? I tried to get some of my publisher friends, who I used to make a lot of money for, to donate. Do you think they donated? No. Their employees did...

MF: Does working with the publisher inflate the budget?

BF: In my experience, yes.

MF: About how much?

BF: At least 25%. In some cases, 35%, because sometimes they insist on taking over functions like doing all the casting and audio recording, where they would spend way more than what we would, if it was our money. I mean, it is our money, because it�s advances, but they insist on taking it over. They can trump the cost up. When we did all of our directing, for all of our games, every project I had ever done, including Bard�s Tale with Cary Elwes, we directed the talent. We knew the material, so we could give them the context for each line. Well, the publishers would allow us to visit the studio, but we weren�t allowed to speak directly with the people doing the recording. They send some very expensive voice director in, and he directs them. We don�t even get to handle it. So, if the audio doesn�t come out quite right, the developer gets the negative mark, yet they aren�t the ones who get to be in charge of it. They aren�t allowed to. They aren�t allowed in the room.

MF: I think that there is this misconception among gamers that developers handle quality assurance and always have control over things like voice acting.

BF: If a product ships with bugs, somebody knew about them. So, if they aren�t getting fixed, I don�t think it�s because a developer refused to fix them. From my last project, I wasn�t allowed to do the cinematics. And what�s the first thing you see?

MF: The opening movie.

BF: Right� and I didn�t get to do it. There is so much that the publishers do that the developers get negatively affected by. As a developer, it�s frustrating. The developers don�t want to say anything because they know if they did the publishers aren�t going to want to do business with them. I think there is a direct correlation between the developers that have the power to kick (publishers) out of their office. Blizzard doesn�t have to put up with that. Epic doesn�t have to put up with that. Why do their products keep coming out one good one after another? Because they don�t have to listen to that.

# ? Mar 27, 2012 22:35

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

Even more reason to reject cinematics and VA in games.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 00:11

AllanGordon: Jan 26, 2010; by Shine

Seashell Salesman posted:

Even more reason to reject cinematics and VA in games.

I don't know man. Having a cool opening cinematic was always a highlight when I was a kid.

Nowadays I guess I don't really care. I just skip through them after the first time, but when I was younger I'd watch them through each time.

Don't really get why publishers are so hard on with getting famous actors to be their voice actors though. Besides like Mark Hamill in the Arkham series I've never really cared if I knew the VA's voice or not.

Maybe it's a marketing thing, but seems like another silly thing that just pointlessly adds to the budget.

Really rather there'd just be a ton of text though with some voice acted highlights.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:04

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

In other RPG related Kickstarter news "These Guys Want Half A Million To Prove That People Still Love JRPGs"

:frogdowns:

The game they (Monkey Paw) are localizing is Class of Heroes 2, an RPG exactly no one was clamoring be brought over. And it'll be getting a release even if they don't reach the target, it'll just be a more modest digital only version. So these guys actually believe there's enough people out there to raise 500k for what amounts to a special collector's edition of a mediocre niche (even with the JRPG niche) game that you'd be able to buy anyway.

e:

quote:

Maybe it's a marketing thing, but seems like another silly thing that just pointlessly adds to the budget.

It's this. Bethesda always gets a bunch of press about their famous actor du jour.

Rinkles fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 28, 2012

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:10

UselessLurker: Apr 28, 2008

Rinkles posted:

In other RPG related Kickstarter news "These Guys Want Half A Million To Prove That People Still Love JRPGs"

The best part of all of this? Class of Heroes is basically Wizardry but with :anime:

all over it. :downs:

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:21

signalnoise: Mar 7, 2008; i was told my old av was distracting

Want my money for a Japanese RPG? Localize Ys 4 and 5. I will pay cash money

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:31

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

On NeoGAF, where Vic Ireland posts regularly, people are telling him this is a really bad idea for a 'first' run on using Kickstarter to help with localizations (except it's not really a localization but more of springing for physical release).

I have to agree with them, and I'm part of the demographic that actually likes these sort of games.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:31

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Blooshoo posted:

http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/27/brian-fargo-talks-wasteland-2-abysmal-publisher-treatment-and-having-fun-again/ Fargo does a interview about wasteland stuff and the gaming business in general. Pretty interesting read.

This interview should be required reading for everyone everywhere. Why have none of the other interviews been this detailed?! Still, some of the others have been good, but you know. I should probably put a bunch of these in the original post. But seriously, this interview. Absolutely great. The part TheBlackW0lf quoted is also astounding; I never would have guessed the developers might just be entirely shut out of such enormous parts of the project, particularly ones that leave such a lasting negative impression if they go wrong. How many games ridiculed for their stupid voice acting mistakes were just bungled by the publisher while the developer cried itself to sleep?

The thing that possibly made me most excited about that interview was reading about him working it out with Electronic Arts to use copyrighted material; I could have sworn I read something horrifying about him not being able to use specific details from the original game, and needless to say that would have been super-unawesome. But instead this sounds very promising. Chalk up another win for Brian Fargo's excellent promotional abilities!

Megazver posted:

Vampire Bloodlines Theme

Massive Attack - Angel

I have listened to both of those songs so many times, you would think this would have occurred to me. Nice catch.

fookolt posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOuy4YM0AI

And thanks for reminding me that I would talk to Deionarra sometimes just so I could hear "I shall wait for you in death's halls, my love" and get a chill. Every single time.

Also, I recently met someone named Deyanira, which is pronounced pretty similarly. You know, in case you wanted an alternate spelling for your daughter so it was not so obvious you were a huge Planescape nerd.

RE: Voice acting big names ... well, in some cases, it makes sense. I do not really care about Wayne Newton, but for people who are Into Las Vegas, having him in New Vegas was probably brilliant. And then you have "the guy who played Chandler" in a major role, doing a voice that probably a thousand no-name voice actors could have pulled off better. THAT makes no sense.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 02:40

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

UselessLurker posted:

The best part of all of this? Class of Heroes is basically Wizardry but with all over it.

You haven't seen the new Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls (yes, Wizardry: Lols) have you? It's wonderfully watered down and given an unhealthy dose of anime. :japan:

signalnoise posted:

Want my money for a Japanese RPG? Localize Ys 4 and 5. I will pay cash money

If JRPGs want money they can start by getting Matsuno to make FFT2 while Konami makes Suikoden 6, firing the current chucklefuck that's responsible for Tierkries and whatever the lovely PSP Suikoden game's called.

Between Wasteland 2 and the Baldur's Gate 1/2 enhanced editions Japan better get its act together, especially if/when the BG games sell a loving ton and companies suddenly realize "oh poo poo, people will throw money at us to make games that don't require a mid/high 8-digit budget!"

I hope to god that Wasteland 2 is distributed via Steam. Not only does it give them an easier way to get the digital distribution out to donors but there's really no reason not to use Steam since it's simply better than driving to a brick and mortar, and even if Valve starts charging more royalties it'll still be the cheaper option for developers.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 03:31

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Another $10,000 donation tier falls to the anonymous wealthy apocalypsos of the Internet! :toot:

Only five left, better tell your trust fund friends to age into their inheritance in the next 20 days.

Evil Fluffy posted:

I hope to god that Wasteland 2 is distributed via Steam. Not only does it give them an easier way to get the digital distribution out to donors but there's really no reason not to use Steam since it's simply better than driving to a brick and mortar, and even if Valve starts charging more royalties it'll still be the cheaper option for developers.

This is the plan. And I believe these are the exact reasons that it will be distributed through Steam. Because Valve has changed the game*, and the change is just getting rolling now. :hellyeah:

_{*for all the time I spent hating them in 2004 because I was on a pay-per-minute dial-up account in England and could not play Half-Life 2 for two days after release because of loving Steam stupid critical failure bug for those of us who did not want to install Counterstrike: Source}

# ? Mar 28, 2012 04:59

Rebel Blob: Mar 1, 2008; Extinction for our time

Quarex posted:

Another $10,000 donation tier falls to the anonymous wealthy apocalypsos of the Internet!

That was the RPG Codex's combined contribution getting sent in. They were only trying to raise $5,000 at first for an in-game statue, but the collection was so successful they doubled it and are going to send someone to the party.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:12

Dr. Video Games 0031: Jul 17, 2004

Quarex posted:

Another $10,000 donation tier falls to the anonymous wealthy apocalypsos of the Internet! Only five left, better tell your trust fund friends to age into their inheritance in the next 20 days.

Don't worry, Fargo will just up the availability yet again to keep the false sense of scarcity going.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:18

RagingBoner: Jan 10, 2006; Real Wood Pencil

Rebel Blob posted:

That was the RPG Codex's combined contribution getting sent in. They were only trying to raise $5,000 at first for an in-game statue, but the collection was so successful they doubled it and are going to send someone to the party.

That's what I figured it was. All the big money names who would donate to this have surely heard about it and done so by now, right?

Anywho, statshot:

If not for that $10k donation just now, the average donation would be very close to slipping under $50. No love for the boxed copy, I guess.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:21

Chairchucker: Nov 14, 2006; to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

UselessLurker posted:

The best part of all of this? Class of Heroes is basically Wizardry but with all over it.

Man I loved Wizardry 8, I'd pay for a kickstart of a decent Wiz 9.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:31

Henry Scorpio: Mar 20, 2006; Maybe it just collapsed on its own?

Blooshoo posted:

http://www.ripten.com/2012/03/27/brian-fargo-talks-wasteland-2-abysmal-publisher-treatment-and-having-fun-again/ Fargo does a interview about wasteland stuff and the gaming business in general. Pretty interesting read.

He's pretty spot on with some of his gripes, but I don't know if I agree that publishers are solely responsible for buggy releases. From my point of view as an engineer it's broken rear end code, poor system design, bad tools, a dysfunctional team(including a bad dev-publisher relationship), or a myriad of other developer factors that are ultimately responsible for buggy releases. Despite the hardships of unpredictable dates and such a lot of developers are able to get their poo poo together before the publisher rams it through certification or onto steam. Still, I guess his point is that if developers were left to their own devices most would opt to spend more time polishing like Blizzard or Valve until their game was ready - but that basically requires a money spigot.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:32

The rat says squee: May 6, 2007; What else should they say?

Quarex posted:

...And then you have "the guy who played Chandler" in a major role, doing a voice that probably a thousand no-name voice actors could have pulled off better. THAT makes no sense.

Matthew Perry is a huge Fallout fan, and was on the Ellen DeGeneres show talking about playing Fallout so much he hurt his hand.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/14/how-ellen-degeneres-got-matthew-perry-his-role-in-fallout-new-v/

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:45

RagingBoner: Jan 10, 2006; Real Wood Pencil

The rat says squee posted:

Matthew Perry is a huge Fallout fan, and was on the Ellen DeGeneres show talking about playing Fallout so much he hurt his hand.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/14/how-ellen-degeneres-got-matthew-perry-his-role-in-fallout-new-v/

I wonder if the transitive property works here?

After all, I love Fallout and played the poo poo out of all of them, so do I also love cocaine?

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:49

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

RagingBoner posted:

I wonder if the transitive property works here?

After all, I love Fallout and played the poo poo out of all of them, so do I also love cocaine?

That requires reflexivity as well (unless you're saying FO3 loves cocaine?).

# ? Mar 28, 2012 05:58

The rat says squee: May 6, 2007; What else should they say?

Seashell Salesman posted:

That requires reflexivity as well (unless you're saying FO3 loves cocaine?).

I love Fallout and cocaine, so I must love Matthew Perry. It's easy!

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:04

RagingBoner: Jan 10, 2006; Real Wood Pencil

Seashell Salesman posted:

That requires reflexivity as well (unless you're saying FO3 loves cocaine?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oEg8xct3y4&feature=related

It certainly loves LSD.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:06

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

The rat says squee posted:

I love Fallout and cocaine, so I must love Matthew Perry. It's easy!

But does Matthew Perry love you?

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:25

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Seashell Salesman posted:

But does Matthew Perry love you?

He loves cocaine so he'll tell me he does if he wants any of this cocaine.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:26

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

chairface posted:

He loves cocaine so he'll tell me he does if he wants any of this cocaine.

I've seen this episode of Friends!

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:34

Dr. Quarex: Apr 18, 2003; I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Wasteland 2 Kickstarter: Just About Matthew Perry And Cocaine

I am glad the RPG Codex raised more than their goal, though I am sad that there was not a last-minute big-name donation from someone else. Like, one of the publishers finally got mad at being shamed ... wait, no, we have learned that publishers have no feelings.

Somewhere, I still feel like Richard Garriott de Cayeux is wringing his hands evilly. Well, really, it is just that I hope he is. Though I would also totally get behind a Wizardry 9 starter. Perhaps since he cannot make Ultima anymore, he can join forces with both the old major Wizardry teams! Hmm, which sounds worse, Wiltima or Ulzardry?

# ? Mar 28, 2012 06:38

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

I remember reading years ago that Brian Fargo had bought wasteland back. About time this got going. I played the poo poo out of wasteland on my Apple //c.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 07:12

Thuryl: Mar 14, 2007; My postillion has been struck by lightning.

The rat says squee posted:

Matthew Perry is a huge Fallout fan, and was on the Ellen DeGeneres show talking about playing Fallout so much he hurt his hand.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/14/how-ellen-degeneres-got-matthew-perry-his-role-in-fallout-new-v/

So that's where they got the idea for that episode with the Ms. Pac-Man machine. Must have had a psychic on the writing staff.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 07:32

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

Quarex posted:

This interview should be required reading for everyone everywhere. Why have none of the other interviews been this detailed?! Still, some of the others have been good, but you know. I should probably put a bunch of these in the original post. But seriously, this interview. Absolutely great. The part TheBlackW0lf quoted is also astounding; I never would have guessed the developers might just be entirely shut out of such enormous parts of the project, particularly ones that leave such a lasting negative impression if they go wrong. How many games ridiculed for their stupid voice acting mistakes were just bungled by the publisher while the developer cried itself to sleep?

And now you understand why developers laughs at you when you ask why there isn't a computer RPG based on table-top Paranoia: It'd just be a day of their lives and the project would get shut down because the publisher would think they were reflecting upon them. :downs:

# ? Mar 28, 2012 08:08

evilmiera: Dec 14, 2009; Status: Ravenously Rambunctious

Quarex posted:

This interview should be required reading for everyone everywhere. Why have none of the other interviews been this detailed?!

Well, I'd guess because he didn't want to burn any bridges that early into the project. Most other developers are probably thinking along the same lines, but then again I'm not sure this is standard practice with all publishers. At least not in regards to VA work, the bug thing is pretty common.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 08:55

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Going back to the Matthew Perry in New Vegas chat, I would take an experienced voice actor over a hollywood name any day.

Possible exception: Chris Walken in True Crime, Trejo in NV, boss.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:19

Tarquinn: Jul 3, 2007; I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.; Hell Gem

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Going back to the Matthew Perry in New Vegas chat, I would take an experienced voice actor over a hollywood name any day.

Possible exception: Chris Walken in True Crime, Trejo in NV, boss.

What about Martin Sheen, Claudia Black, Lance Henriksen, Tricia Helfer and Seth Green in Mass Effect?

What I am saying is that a I disagree. Normal actors can do an outstanding VO job too.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:23

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Going back to the Matthew Perry in New Vegas chat, I would take an experienced voice actor over a hollywood name any day.

Possible exception: Chris Walken in True Crime, Trejo in NV, boss.

Then again, did Matthew Perry take a pay cut to be in NV? I know that Orlando Jones appeared in Halo 2 because he loved the first game (and appeared in a testimonial for the E3 preview), and I suspect David Cross, Michelle Rodriguez, Laura Prepon, and Brian Posehn likely did as well, given that all of them essentially have cameo roles as Marines (or in Posehn's case, a Grunt).

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:37

lordfrikk: Mar 11, 2010; Oh, say it ain't fuckin' so,
you stupid fuck!

Tarquinn posted:

What about Martin Sheen, Claudia Black, Lance Henriksen, Tricia Helfer and Seth Green in Mass Effect?

What I am saying is that a I disagree. Normal actors can do an outstanding VO job too.

Definitely agree. I like to believe there's shitload of good voice actors who just need to be found by the companies, which obviously means more :effort:

for the publisher/developer who can't probably be bothered.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:42

Seashell Salesman: Aug 4, 2005; Holy wow! That "Literally A Person" sure is a cool and good poster. He's smart and witty and he smells like a pure mountain stream. I posted in his thread and I got a FANCY NEW AVATAR!!!!

Every voice actor sounds like Jerry Lewis doing the nutty professor in my video games. Except the ones without subtitles. I just uninstall those games.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:45

RagingBoner: Jan 10, 2006; Real Wood Pencil

For all the tons and tons of money spent on voice acting, is there a contingent of people out there clamoring for voice acting?

That is to say, plenty of people basically say they can take it or leave it, but I've never heard anyone except publishers demand MORE voice acting. 80% of the time I find it ignorable, 10% of the time it is distractingly bad (Danny Trejo in FO:NV just sounds SO disinterested in his lines), and only 10% of the time does it add anything at all to the experience.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 14:58

Dissapointed Owl: Jan 30, 2008; You wrote me a letter,
and this is how it went:

And yet, Liam Neeson kept me playing Fallout 3 more than I would have otherwise.

It wasn't a search for my digital dad. Who gives a poo poo.

I was searching for Neeson.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 15:04

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 19, 2024 21:14

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Tarquinn posted:

What about Martin Sheen, Claudia Black, Lance Henriksen, Tricia Helfer and Seth Green in Mass Effect?

What I am saying is that a I disagree. Normal actors can do an outstanding VO job too.

Alright, fair enough, these are some pretty good examples of excellent hollywood VO talent.

# ? Mar 28, 2012 15:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Wasteland 2: Apostles of Quarex welcomed! BETA IS OUT!

«‹›233 »