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This sounds like a plot by Western Imperialists!  It seems like big governments everywhere are starting to regret this whole internet thing.
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Mar 31, 2012 14:18
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Anyone seeing any other messages get out past the Great Firewall? Anyone have any actual reports from Bejing? I'm betting that the 'tanks' are probably armored personnel carriers, possibly SWAT level, certainly there for that reason. In case of riot, rather than because of riot. Basically, it could very well be that they're just throwing this up as an overprecaution because of Bo Xilai, rather than any actual thing happening.
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Mar 31, 2012 16:02
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Warcabbit posted:Anyone seeing any other messages get out past the Great Firewall? Anyone have any actual reports from Bejing? I'm betting that the 'tanks' are probably armored personnel carriers, possibly SWAT level, certainly there for that reason. In case of riot, rather than because of riot. The "tanks" were non-existent, it was a hoax. Not sure about other compounds, but I know ours was plastered with reminders not to listen to FLG bullshit or spread their lies and rumors. So, yea, government's not dumb, they know who's been stirring up the poo poo.
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Mar 31, 2012 17:12
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The lastest journal of Asian American Studies has an interesting article on transnational citizenship between the US and China. I'm not sure if it's kosher to post a PDF of this since it's on my personal dropbox and the original is behind an academic paywall, but here is a link and the abstract: http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/journal_of_asian_american_studies/v015/15.1.liu.html quote:This study examines one of the largest online communities of returning Chinese professional migrants and explores migrants' choices and interpretations of citizenship. It proposes the concept of "selective citizenship," showing how migrants negotiate complex citizenship requirements and choose nationality based on the international hierarchy of nation-states and on individual needs. Selecting or changing nationality is also a way for migrants to adapt to local conditions and assert their own identity and autonomy. "Selective citizenship" thus challenges the popular and idealized "dual nationality" model and reminds us of the importance of full considerations of historical and local contexts.
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Mar 31, 2012 17:47
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Peven Stan posted:The lastest journal of Asian American Studies has an interesting article on transnational citizenship between the US and China. I'm not sure if it's kosher to post a PDF of this since it's on my personal dropbox and the original is behind an academic paywall, but here is a link and the abstract: Maybe I'm missing some context here, but how is it bad as a Chinese national to get dual citizenship as an American? If they choose to return to China, can't they just enter on their Chinese passport and things are fine and dandy? Or does China actively reject dual citizenship?
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Mar 31, 2012 19:20
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Evil Robot posted:Or does China actively reject dual citizenship? Yes
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Mar 31, 2012 21:56
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Evil Robot posted:Maybe I'm missing some context here, but how is it bad as a Chinese national to get dual citizenship as an American? If they choose to return to China, can't they just enter on their Chinese passport and things are fine and dandy? Or does China actively reject dual citizenship? You can't be a Chinese citizen while holding citizenship for another country, it is against the law.
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Mar 31, 2012 22:26
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Ronald Spiers posted:You can't be a Chinese citizen while holding citizenship for another country, it is against the law. It's not illegal, it's just not allowed. If you are caught with a second passport they'll cancel your hukou and invalidate your Chinese passport. There *are* of course, ways around it, not unlike there are ways around it in other countries with similar policies.
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Apr 1, 2012 01:48
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:It's not illegal, it's just not allowed. If you are caught with a second passport they'll cancel your hukou and invalidate your Chinese passport. There *are* of course, ways around it, not unlike there are ways around it in other countries with similar policies. Sounds awfully illegal...
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Apr 1, 2012 09:26
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Police states require ambiguous laws; if everyone is a criminal you can arrest anyone. China's police state likes to be quiet and unobtrusive but you shouldn't forget that it exists.
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Apr 1, 2012 11:51
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Arglebargle III posted:Police states require ambiguous laws; if everyone is a criminal you can arrest anyone. China's police state likes to be quiet and unobtrusive but you shouldn't forget that it exists. It's not criminal, it's not illegal. There is no fine, there is no jail. It's just simply not allowed to have a foreign passport while retaining a Chinese passport. If you enter and they realize it, they'll mark you in the system as preparing to cancel hukou. If you try to leave without cancelling it, you will be turned back to cancelling your hukou (and presenting proof of it), or presenting proof of renouncing the other(s). Tons of other countries with essentially the same policy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dual_Citizenship.svg The US does not disallow dual citizenship, it just doesn't recognize it as legitimate. It also has one of those ambiguous laws on the books regarding dual nationals entering the US on anything other than a US passport.
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Apr 1, 2012 13:21
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I believe the US made the error of recognizing dual citizenships a few years ago. Real shame.
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Apr 1, 2012 16:32
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Cliff Racer posted:I believe the US made the error of recognizing dual citizenships a few years ago. Real shame.
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Apr 2, 2012 08:45
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Hedenius posted:Why? That would be off topic but the gist is that once you get over the age of 18 you should be prepared to state yourself as being a citizen of one country, no divided loyalties, etc. If you want to discuss it further you can make a thread on it.
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Apr 2, 2012 09:00
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Cliff Racer posted:That would be off topic but the gist is that once you get over the age of 18 you should be prepared to state yourself as being a citizen of one country, no divided loyalties, etc. If you want to discuss it further you can make a thread on it. Given that half the people reading this thread are expats, I think the balloon has already gone up on this one. Holding the citizenship of a country does not make you personally or politically loyal to that country. A whole continent of Europeans - who can live, work and move freely across national boundaries - would seem to refute the idea that patriotism is the wellspring of civilised society. I agree with the idea of closing tax loopholes and fully understand why dual nationals are not permitted to serve in certain parts of the armed forces, but to suggest that people are somehow lacking because they don't feel the need to belong to one country and only one country is baffling. Next, you'll be telling me that Catholicism is unpatriotic. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Apr 2, 2012 |
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Apr 2, 2012 13:16
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Cliff Racer posted:That would be off topic but the gist is that once you get over the age of 18 you should be prepared to state yourself as being a citizen of one country, no divided loyalties, etc. If you want to discuss it further you can make a thread on it.
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Apr 2, 2012 14:36
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Cliff Racer posted:That would be off topic but the gist is that once you get over the age of 18 you should be prepared to state yourself as being a citizen of one country, no divided loyalties, etc. If you want to discuss it further you can make a thread on it. I bet you're still smarting over hyphenated Americans right? 
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Apr 2, 2012 16:06
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Interesting article in the NYTimes today. They talk about the brewing animosities between China and the US. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world/asia/chinese-insider-offers-rare-glimpse-of-us-china-frictions.html?hp
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Apr 2, 2012 17:28
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ReindeerF posted:Of redistributing it to Chinese workers instead of Americans How come? They're still worse off than we are.
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Apr 3, 2012 19:16
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Vladimir Putin posted:Interesting article in the NYTimes today. They talk about the brewing animosities between China and the US. Or is it larger than that, that they start moving from Soft to Hard power on a global scale like the Yanks? And even then, do they have any current examples of it or is it just well voiced conjecture? The Monogram itself has more info on it, I'm reading through that now. Interesting read. I mostly found it very amusing when it talked about how the States distrusted Authoritarianism considering how they've been shaping up but meh. It was also interesting to see the American side of things. I wasn't aware about the distrust they had towards the Committee, for one. And how they expected China to step up now that it's big, while China wanted more authority. Hmm. Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 3, 2012 20:22
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Hey, no need to cross out the link to the original publication! It's so much better. NY Times really sensationalizes China-related issues. Also, there is a very big difference in Authoritarianism in China and the United States. hitension fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 13:42
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Cliff Racer posted:That would be off topic but the gist is that once you get over the age of 18 you should be prepared to state yourself as being a citizen of one country, no divided loyalties, etc. If you want to discuss it further you can make a thread on it. sanchez fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2012 13:45
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hitension posted:Hey, no need to cross out the link to the original publication! It's so much better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wines NY Times's Beijing bureau is run by Horse Semen Pie Guy.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:56
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VideoTapir posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wines I don't believe that one journalist thew a pie filled with horse semen at another journalist. In the old days they just wrote nasty articles about one another and left it at that.
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Apr 4, 2012 16:19
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hitension posted:Hey, no need to cross out the link to the original publication! It's so much better. And yeah, the States are hella free compared to China, true. It's just always amusing to see them talk about it like they're the "Bright City on the Hill". Personally, I saw a lot more truth in the Chinese side, but like I said, it was interesting to see some actual reasonable reasons the yanks might be pissed at China. VideoTapir posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wines
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Apr 4, 2012 16:41
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I really recommend Evan Osnos' recent piece on Macau. It's quite long but it has a great hook (random dude that won zillions by playing Baccarat) and some really spectacular writing by Osnos. He covers Macau's sordid history in detail and how it has shaped and been shaped by the Chinese and international players. Seriously, it's a massive pro-click. The God of Gamblers: Why Las Vegas is Moving to Macau
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Apr 4, 2012 21:27
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french lies posted:I really recommend Evan Osnos' recent piece on Macau. It's quite long but it has a great hook (random dude that won zillions by playing Baccarat) and some really spectacular writing by Osnos. He covers Macau's sordid history in detail and how it has shaped and been shaped by the Chinese and international players. One thing I really liked about this piece was the academic experiments basically proving that Chinese investors are much more tolerant of risk than American ones. There's a lovely Orientalist meme going around the west about Chinese investors, especially real estate investors, that somehow they are much more "long term" and "family oriented" and otherwise more conservative due to their ancient culture blah blah blah *sound of gong in background*. Even if you've never met or spoken to a Chinese person, which would instantly disprove this nonsense, think about the business environment in China, is it more risky or less risky than the west? Now consider that business still gets done and money invested there, and what does that say about Chinese businesspeople and investors?
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Apr 4, 2012 23:37
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Throatwarbler posted:Even if you've never met or spoken to a Chinese person, which would instantly disprove this nonsense, think about the business environment in China, is it more risky or less risky than the west? Now consider that business still gets done and money invested there, and what does that say about Chinese businesspeople and investors? What strange combination of fatalism, acquisitiveness and herd mentality has led to the massive new ghost cities of China? Millions of people buying unrentable second homes in the expectation that their purchase will appreciate in value despite the ever increasing supply, is a strong argument that there is a different cultural attitude towards "risk". But then, trying to understand the property market in most countries involves a good measure of ju-ju sticks and chicken entrails.
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Apr 5, 2012 00:36
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french lies posted:I really recommend Evan Osnos' recent piece on Macau. It's quite long but it has a great hook (random dude that won zillions by playing Baccarat) and some really spectacular writing by Osnos. He covers Macau's sordid history in detail and how it has shaped and been shaped by the Chinese and international players. One thing that jumps out at me is the average income being higher than Europe's. Sure, the average income is sky-high, just like the U.S. It would be nice to have a look at the median or mean incomes to confirm what I think is obvious -- the income inequality is astounding and super-high outliers are dragging the average way beyond the mean. @Throatwarbler I like how the Chinese investors also believe the cliche that they are more conservative than Americans.
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Apr 5, 2012 12:20
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Regarding Macau and its development related to China, it would be interesting to see the breakdown of gamblers based on their nationality. Is most of the money coming in from China? Macau is certainly easier to reach than Las Vegas for Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc. How much money coming into Macau is from CCP members?
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Apr 5, 2012 16:48
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TheBuilder posted:Regarding Macau and its development related to China, it would be interesting to see the breakdown of gamblers based on their nationality. Is most of the money coming in from China? Macau is certainly easier to reach than Las Vegas for Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc. How much money coming into Macau is from CCP members? I though the story of Macau was that it was a backdoor way to get money out of China? http://www.economist.com/node/21541417
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Apr 5, 2012 16:54
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Throatwarbler posted:One thing I really liked about this piece was the academic experiments basically proving that Chinese investors are much more tolerant of risk than American ones. There's a lovely Orientalist meme going around the west about Chinese investors, especially real estate investors, that somehow they are much more "long term" and "family oriented" and otherwise more conservative due to their ancient culture blah blah blah *sound of gong in background*. Haha. I don't know where this meme you're talking about came from, but the poker/gaming community has a very...different opinion on Asian and especially Chinese gamblers. TheBuilder posted:Regarding Macau and its development related to China, it would be interesting to see the breakdown of gamblers based on their nationality. Is most of the money coming in from China? Macau is certainly easier to reach than Las Vegas for Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc. How much money coming into Macau is from CCP members? Almost all of it is Chinese. Maybe not by player, but definitely by money wagered.
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Apr 5, 2012 17:45
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If Macau is a money laundering haven and a way to exit Chinese funny or hot money out of the country, why doesn't the central government do more to lock it down? It would seem any real effort to fight corruption would be to shut Macau down and make it harder to remove this cash from the country. I ask this assuming that the upper levels of the central government are serious about corruption fighting.
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Apr 5, 2012 18:16
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The upper levels of government are serious about fighting corruption? what?
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Apr 5, 2012 18:21
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TheBuilder posted:If Macau is a money laundering haven and a way to exit Chinese funny or hot money out of the country, why doesn't the central government do more to lock it down? It would seem any real effort to fight corruption would be to shut Macau down and make it harder to remove this cash from the country. I ask this assuming that the upper levels of the central government are serious about corruption fighting. quote:For all the hullabaloo surrounding the perennial anti-graft campaigns, the risk of going to jail remains small even for officials caught with their hands in the till. Since 1982, about 80 per cent of the 130,000 to 190,000 officials disciplined annually for malfeasance by the Party received only a warning. Only 6 per cent were criminally prosecuted, and of them, only 3 per cent went to jail. In other news, The Economist (which I usually hate) had a pretty decent long article on China's military build-up and what it means for the region and the world at large. China's Military Rise: The Dragon's New Teeth I'll be the first to admit I don't know the first thing about military hardware, but what I read from the article pretty much confirmed my notion that the anxiety over China as a military power is overstated. The PLA hasn't seen real combat for thirty years and much of their technology is still out of date. The article writer also makes the point that even though China will get some aircraft carriers soon, it will still take them many years to learn how to use them well. This is probably applicable to other sections of the army as well: The hardware is catching up, but the combined expertise and human capital of the PLA is still ways behind.
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Apr 5, 2012 19:50
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french lies posted:In other news, The Economist (which I usually hate) had a pretty decent long article on China's military build-up and what it means for the region and the world at large. Especially just after reading the God of Gamblers article, which was a real pro-click.
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Apr 5, 2012 21:28
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french lies posted:In other news, The Economist (which I usually hate) had a pretty decent long article on China's military build-up and what it means for the region and the world at large. On the other hand, Chinese military cyber-warfare and cyber-espionage is a big, big concern, especially since unlike conventional weapons they have few reservations at deploying it. Ditto for trade wars and "economic warfare." The only people who should truly worry about conventional Chinese military hardware is the Chinese people themselves (e.g., protesters and minorities) and maybe a few neighboring countries with ongoing territorial disputes. Also, Macau is basically the Monaco of Asia.
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Apr 5, 2012 22:35
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Cream_Filling posted:On the other hand, Chinese military cyber-warfare and cyber-espionage is a big, big concern, especially since unlike conventional weapons they have few reservations at deploying it. Ditto for trade wars and "economic warfare." Granted, as China is finding out, their not the only ones who can bear the brunt of economic warfare nor are they immune from financial pressure. The cyber-warfare/espionage thing is also a two way street, they just have more to gain from it at this point in the technical arena. Anyway, I would say that Vietnam and the Philippines are in China's sights more than anyone else and Russia has been arming Vietnam and working with India. The economist article had a real alarmist vibe to be honest, even if they admitted Chinese economic strength at best is going to be an issue 20-25 years from now assuming a constant growth rate. (which isn't going to happen) It honestly kind of bugged me, because it made the same alarmist assumptions the Western press always makes about China. In 2010, they had this X growth rate so if you multiple X x 20 then they conquer the world! Come on, this is 2012 and we are already seeing a reduction in Chinese growth due to various bubbles and commodity pressure. Chinese military spending will grow, but the power projection disparity between China and US is absurd. They cite numbers but don't really detail what their talking about, like what a "frigate" means in the PLAN. China certainly is building a navy that can protect their shore, but pretending their going to start aggressive operations in the "first island chain" is just nuts, especially since they are seriously like 5-6 navies already there. I honestly, think the Economist is yearning for the old "scary rising Dragon" period again, since they could suggest Western (primarily America, maybe the UK) nations do all types of crazy poo poo to emulate China. Granted, right now I think they are hoping India crushes the Naxalites so they can have a new country as a capitalist model state.
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Apr 6, 2012 07:10
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The Economist of all places is certainly not aiming to make China an enemy. If anything I got a big "see its not that bad" vibe from the article, exactly what I would have expected from a business publication.
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Apr 6, 2012 09:24
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Ardennes posted:Granted, as China is finding out, their not the only ones who can bear the brunt of economic warfare nor are they immune from financial pressure. The cyber-warfare/espionage thing is also a two way street, they just have more to gain from it at this point in the technical arena. From Reuters: quote:A hacker has posted thousands of internal documents he says he obtained by breaking into the network of a Chinese company with defense contracts, an unusual extension of the phenomenon of activist hacking into the world's most populous country. The Anonymous attack was earlier this week, and by the looks of it, they forgot to do their homework. From PCMag: quote:A new, China-focused group of Anonymous hacktivists took down several hundred of Chinese websites this week to "revolt the Chinese system."  Even still, I'm glad someone is making life difficult for the Chinese authorities in some way. It'll be interesting to see what kind of repercussions (if any) that the fenqing and patriotic hackers will think of.
french lies fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Apr 6, 2012 |
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Apr 6, 2012 11:53
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