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Danger posted:Your genre delegations are nonsensical. From this interview source http://www.thecinemasource.com/blog/interviews/steven-spielberg-interview-for-war-of-the-worlds/ StevenSpielberg posted:
Weird, I guess he thought he was making a horror movie or he was just making a really good science fiction story. Everyone considers this science fiction. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Please tell me your not going to argue with one of the greatest directors of our time as to what genre this movie is. Yeah I'm wayyyy off base here with calling this a science fiction movie. You can justify anything, you can justify saying anything is anything, that doesn't make your justification true. If your going to start saying its a horror movie, then start backing up your claims with evidence. Please point me to articles that discuss and support your statements, other than "I think". Because I am going to start siting mine. I can back my statements up not only using the filmmakers own words, but reviews, discussions, and categorizations. Give me a outside source on your claims, something unrelated to whatever jingoistic imagery you think leads to a definitive claim. Guess what all movies, films, etc.. are jingoistic in nature. They all have things that we identify with them, that's why we watch them. Now bring something to the table other than it is because I said it was so. Observe and Reports a black comedy, we have those. It's from the guy who did eastbound and down. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 01:05
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Hollis posted:Give me a outside source on your claims, something unrelated to whatever jingoistic imagery you think leads to a definitive claim. Guess what all movies, films, etc.. are jingoistic in nature. They all have things that we identify with them, that's why we watch them. Now bring something to the table other than it is because I said it was so. You might want to look up what jingoistic means before you throw that one in your arsenal of big words from now on. Moving back to the sense of dread that can be conveyed through music, I recently read that Adele's Someone Like You is an example of how music scientifically causes the audience to get the chills. So from listening to it, a good example would be the Halloween Theme and the tension that it can generate. How Music Conveys Emotion Halloween Theme
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Apr 4, 2012 01:41
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Hollis posted:You can justify anything, you can justify saying anything is anything, that doesn't make your justification true. If your going to start saying its a horror movie, then start backing up your claims with evidence. How can you say that then cite that horrendous interview as evidence?
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Apr 4, 2012 02:00
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Hollis posted:What the hell are you babbling about? Movies can be more than one genre, bro. War of the Worlds can be both a sci-fi movie and a horror movie. It's also an action movie, on top of that. Whether it's more one or more the other only matters to people that work at Blockbuster, and very soon those people won't even exist, dogg.
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Apr 4, 2012 02:27
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Also what genre a movie is goes beyond where it's filed at Suncoast. I know I learned tone and mood in high school English.
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Apr 4, 2012 02:44
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God drat I miss Suncoast and paying 25 dollars for a new VHS.
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Apr 4, 2012 02:48
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I scored a VHS copy of The Gates of Hell at Suncoast for like eight bucks back in the day. Pretty sure that was my first Fulci. Ah, memories.weekly font posted:Also what genre a movie is goes beyond where it's filed at Suncoast. I know I learned tone and mood in high school English. Yeah, I mean, I love genre theory, and discussion of genre can lead to some interesting places, but I see zero point in getting angry because someone doesn't agree with me about what genre a movie is. Like, I consider Persona a horror movie, because it creeps the everliving poo poo out of me without fail and I think it asks some scary questions. Most people file it under "drama" or something. I'm not angry at those people, why would I be? Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 02:59
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And just as the old video store model is going away, Netflix and the like are defining the new model. Its recommendation engine is essentially tuned to be descriptive rather than prescriptive, so instead of a "horror" list, you're presented with a list of films that share in a collection of generic and stylistic elements (the comically long category titles, e.g. "Classic Foreign Gritty Mind-bending Violent Horror Comedies"). It still has a long way to go (what does "Foreign" tell you?), but it's much more dynamic than fitting individual, hopefully inventive, films into predefined structures.
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Apr 4, 2012 03:18
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Hollis posted:From this interview source Hmm, it's as if authorial intent is entirely irrelevent to critical analyses.
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Apr 4, 2012 03:21
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Watching Anthony and Cleopatra - WTF?! Why is this clown prancing about making jokes in the final act?! This was supposed to be a TRAGEDY?! Watching any Korean movie - WTF?! Why has this comedy suddenly turned into a tragedy and all the people I was just laughing at are now crying or dead? Watching any Japanese movie. WTF? I thought this was an action movie but now everyone is raping everyone? Is this a porno? Watching any Indian movie - WTF I thought this was a horror movie but now everyone is singing and dancing! It weirds me out when people internalise the commercial elements of a movie - tracking it's revenue to determine its value or, in this case strictly defining it in terms of its location on a shelf at Blockbuster. People are saying WOTW is a horror movie because they are looking at the film's structure and recognising the horror beats. An entire community gets vaporized. The car gets swarmed by desperate zombie-like people, Tom Cruise has to protect his daughter by killing someone with an axe. These are all presented in a very personal, immediate way with great heed paid to the personal consequences of the actions. It's almost like we are supposed to feel the same horror that Cruise is feeling or something. If anything you could argue that it wasn't a horror BECAUSE it forces you to empathise with the character's plight, rather than getting a voyeuristic thrill from it like in say, Friday 13th.
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Apr 4, 2012 04:23
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frozenpeas posted:
I'm not calling you out on this, I now have genuine curiosity to see a Bollywood horror movie that does this and wondered if could suggest one. EDIT: ...Oh Sweet Lord, this is a terrifying movie that sure enough has them breaking out into song: Bandh Darwaza Mouser.. fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 04:43
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This has nothing to do with critical analysis or authorial intent. You're reading way to much into the idea of saying its genre is science fiction. I've already stated that it's Science Fiction film that may have elements of suspense and horror. That doesn't make it a horror film, it just means he borrowed elements from that to drive the story. It's a science fiction movie. This isn't complicated, a film can have grotesque imagery , be scary at times and not be a horror movie. Just because you think its about the 9/11 or whatever doesn't mean anything. He used those images to specifically invoke a reaction, he wants you to be afraid of the ALIENS. That's the point. A alien invasion is terrifying. It doesn't make it horror, there's numerous movies that do this. Your getting caught up in trying to say your critical analysis changes what the movie is. It's that simple. If you want to view it as a horror movie, go ahead. It doesn't mean your right because that is your interpretation of the film. I'm saying it's inaccurate to say straight out to someone. "War of the Worlds is a horror movie" because your giving the wrong impression to the person that your saying that to. If you say "War of the Worlds is a pretty scary science fiction film". That's accurate. As for critical analysis, its geared toward the bias of the analyser, seriously your going to see what your bias views see. If your a liberal your going to view films a specific way from your view point, if your conservative another, a feminist another. All of that affects critical analysis. No one has said this isn't scary, their saying it should actually be classified as a horror film when its not. It's literally what Spielberg is known for doing by the way is borrowing from different genres when making a film. Science Fiction borrows from other Genres all of the time, there's always a human element to a story. It borrows from comedy to horror. What makes something science fiction is a plausible element, technology, et.. that's why we classify it like that. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 04:53
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I wish I could say I planned for all this discussion to happen but in reality I was just trying to be ha-ha funny about Skyline.
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Apr 4, 2012 05:01
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It's at least a interesting discussion, I mean it really expounds on the views of what makes horror and science fiction, where is the distinction. Where can you say okay, at this point it crosses into horror genre.
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Apr 4, 2012 05:04
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The best horror movie I've ever seen fyi is Hamburger Hill, and that's nominally a war movie.
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Apr 4, 2012 05:41
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Hollis posted:This has nothing to do with critical analysis or authorial intent. You're reading way to much into the idea of saying its genre is science fiction. I've already stated that it's Science Fiction film that may have elements of suspense and horror. That doesn't make it a horror film, it just means he borrowed elements from that to drive the story. It's a science fiction movie. Who are you referring to when you say "we"?
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Apr 4, 2012 13:39
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Hollis posted:I've already stated that it's Science Fiction film that may have elements of suspense and horror. That doesn't make it a horror film, it just means he borrowed elements from that to drive the story. It's a science fiction movie. quote:This isn't complicated, a film can have grotesque imagery , be scary at times and not be a horror movie. Just because you think its about the 9/11 or whatever doesn't mean anything. He used those images to specifically invoke a reaction, he wants you to be afraid of the ALIENS. That's the point. A alien invasion is terrifying. quote:It doesn't make it horror, there's numerous movies that do this. Your getting caught up in trying to say your critical analysis changes what the movie is. It's that simple. quote:
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Apr 4, 2012 14:22
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Who are you referring to when you say "we"? I thought that what makes something a genre work is that it follows certain established subject matter and storytelling conventions that the audience is implicitly expecting?
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Apr 4, 2012 14:31
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Danger posted:Once again, people weren't concerned with where this video is found at Blockbuster. I think Hollis is being overly dogmatic about genre but this isn't quite accurate, either. Sci-fi and fantasy don't map perfectly onto "speculative fiction" and "mythical fiction" but the association is pretty strong, and speculative/mythical fiction are definitely not the same thing. Or, put slightly differently: science fiction is not interchangeable with fantasy, but Star Wars is a fantasy.
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Apr 4, 2012 14:31
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I think Hollis is being overly dogmatic about genre but this isn't quite accurate, either. Sci-fi and fantasy don't map perfectly onto "speculative fiction" and "mythical fiction" but the association is pretty strong, and speculative/mythical fiction are definitely not the same thing. Yea, that's the example I had in mind.
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Apr 4, 2012 14:34
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servoret posted:I thought that what makes something a genre work is that it follows certain established subject matter and storytelling conventions that the audience is implicitly expecting? That's only part of what a genre work is, otherwise, Joss Whedon wouldn't have a career. There are a large number of works that explicitly and formally accede to a particular genre, there's nothing wrong with that - however, being prescriptive about what genre something belongs to, sight unseen, because it has cowboys, or ghosts, or whatever is useless in a discussion. Classifying something according to where you'd find it at in Blockbuster is not an interesting conversation unless you're in the stock room. Did you watch it, or are you looking for where to buy it?
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Apr 4, 2012 14:51
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Classifying something according to where you'd find it at in Blockbuster is not an interesting conversation unless you're in the stock room. Did you watch it, or are you looking for where to buy it? But why are we classifying these movies by genre's at all? If you take the Blockbuster shelf(or Netflix queue) out of it, whats the point of arguing what movie fits into what genre? Wouldn't it be better to just discuss each movie on its own terms? Like it or not, genres were defined for practical reasons, not so we could have fun debating what goes where. When it comes to genre, majority rules. Most of America considers a movie featuring an alien invasion to be sci-fi. In this case perception is reality.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:03
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So Dellamore Delamorte is just a horror film because it has zombies in it. Or are you one of those people that consider 'Arthouse' a genre?
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Apr 4, 2012 15:07
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frozenpeas posted:So Dellamore Delamorte is just a horror film because it has zombies in it. I'm not one of "those" people, I'm just saying they are the people genre's were invented for. They are a quick and dirty way to classify movies for easy reference. Why try to force them into being more than they are?
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Apr 4, 2012 15:11
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Basebf555 posted:But why are we classifying these movies by genre's at all? If you take the Blockbuster shelf(or Netflix queue) out of it, whats the point of arguing what movie fits into what genre? Wouldn't it be better to just discuss each movie on its own terms? Argumentum ad populum is the weakest tea ever, dude. "Most of America" thinks a tomato is a vegetable. I'm discussing what genre this particular film belongs to because I don't think that genre is a category characterized by superficial markers. I hope I'm not mis-characterizing the opposing argument by saying that what makes something sci-fi or not is whether it has spaceships in it. I think that's foolish and completely uninteresting.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Argumentum ad populum is the weakest tea ever, dude. "Most of America" thinks a tomato is a vegetable. But it is superficial, thats what I'm trying to say. Genre's were always superficial, and always meant to be superficial. You seem to want to give them meaning they were never meant to have. Why can't you just discuss what horror elements and sci-fi elements a movie has without ultimately deciding what "category" it falls into. Discuss a movie in its own context, on its own merits. Thats always been enough for me.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:17
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Basebf555 posted:But it is superficial, thats what I'm trying to say. Genre's were always superficial, and always meant to be superficial. You seem to want to give them meaning they were never meant to have. Fair enough, but I disagree. quote:Why can't you just discuss what horror elements and sci-fi elements a movie has without ultimately deciding what "category" it falls into. Discuss a movie in its own context, on its own merits. Thats always been enough for me. Because the original sentiment was that you couldn't describe War of the Worlds as a horror movie, and you certainly can.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:23
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Did talking about Skyline just prompt an inane 100+ post debate on the subjective interpretation of sci-fi vs. horror?
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Apr 4, 2012 15:26
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Because the original sentiment was that you couldn't describe War of the Worlds as a horror movie, and you certainly can. Well I agree that you can describe War of the Worlds as a horror movie, but I also go to Best Buy and it doesn't piss me off that War of the Worlds is in the Sci-Fi section. I get why its there.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:29
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Basebf555 posted:But it is superficial, thats what I'm trying to say. Genre's were always superficial, and always meant to be superficial. You seem to want to give them meaning they were never meant to have. While I'm not really sure that's an accurate way to characterize why or how genres were developed, what meaning they were meant to have isn't really important to the discussion.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:29
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Cart posted:Did talking about Skyline just prompt an inane 100+ post debate on the subjective interpretation of sci-fi vs. horror? It's a really interesting conversation and a pleasant break from just reading about lovely netflix movie # whatever ad nauseum.
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Apr 4, 2012 15:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Argumentum ad populum is the weakest tea ever, dude. "Most of America" thinks a tomato is a vegetable. When you go shopping do you look for tomatoes near the vegetables (seems like they're always between the garlic/onions and potatoes) or near the fruit? There is a value in classifications managing expectations even if they are sometimes (subjectively?) wrong. If this thread was suddenly about movies like Godzilla, Dancer in the Dark and Shutter Island I could see why, but I'd stop checking on it for info on what I consider horror movies. Also Jason X was a comedy, what is this scifi vs horror idea?
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Apr 4, 2012 15:51
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I dunno, when was the last time you read a tomato?
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Apr 4, 2012 16:02
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frozenpeas posted:I dunno, when was the last time you read a tomato? I think this is conceivable if you have really bad synesthesia.
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Apr 4, 2012 16:31
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Cart posted:Did talking about Skyline just prompt an inane 100+ post debate on the subjective interpretation of sci-fi vs. horror? Quite possibly the best derail I have ever been responsible for. Rhyno fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 16:40
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From Amazon: Despite super effects, a huge budget, and the cinematic pedigree of alien-happy Steven Spielberg, this take on H.G. Wells's novel is basically a horror film packaged as a sci-fi thrill ride. Instead of a mad slasher, however, Spielberg (along with writers Josh Friedman & David Koepp) utilizes aliens hell-bent on quickly destroying humanity, and the terrifying results that prey upon adult fears, especially in the post-9/11 world. I think its best to concede its a horror.
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Apr 4, 2012 17:08
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Personally, my litmus test is, if it got spoofed in Scary Movie 4, it therefore must be a horror movie. By that criterion, War of the Worlds is obviously a horror movie, as are The Village, iPods and Shaquille O'Neill.
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Apr 4, 2012 17:17
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Don't forget Tom Cruise and Oprah!
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Apr 4, 2012 17:54
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:and Shaquille O'Neill. As it would happen this is the perfect segue into my next post, a lengthy genre study of the 1996 classic Kazaam,
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Apr 4, 2012 17:56
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So has anyone heard anything about The Cabin in the Woods? I think it looks pretty cool, and I like Joss Whedon so it could be fun.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:11
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