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Kharmakazy posted:That's fine and dandy until he decides to make himself even MORE assertive later on. The bottom line is that you can't trust him. He was reprogrammed by a Follower, and tooled around with by a retarded 50's gangster, based on designs by a megalomaniac howard hughes. His programming will always be suspect unless I get to format c:\ and start from scratch. You can't trust anyone really. And I'd say he's more trustworthy than the others, if only by merit of being able to tweak his programming yourself later if you really wanted to.
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Apr 4, 2012 19:44
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And the mention of the Followers brings me to one of my favorite New Vegas hobbyhorses, which is that the Followers of the Apocalypse own and if I could somehow hand Yes Man over to them I would not hesitate for a second.
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Apr 4, 2012 19:48
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I like how they left that statement of assertiveness kinda open to interpretation, because it could really mean all of the above if you want it to, at least eventually. This playthrough I'm siding with house, I'm pretty much trying to be as evil as possible, and I'm also very high on speech. I like how speech isn't only for peaceful solutions but also a good skill to gently caress with people and/or bully them. It's also only my second playthrough and I see a lot of content I did not see before on my first one (kind of rushed that one) and I still have to see all DLC excluding dead money. Over modding I kind of almost forgot how fun that game actually was. After I release the armor collection I might do a robot race mod that's a bit more in depth than the one that's out, I already have done some work on it. The most conflicting thing for me is fitting an intelligent robot doing all that stuff the courier does and people not reacting to him in any special way. Kind of a MY IMMERSION complaint really.
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Apr 4, 2012 19:51
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It's a small thing but I liked how siding with Mr House didn't mean you have to be a dick. You can still be loyal to him and be respectful to those who want his technology - telling him you understand their reasons, but still won't undermine the trust placed in you. 
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Apr 4, 2012 19:51
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poptart_fairy posted:It's a small thing but I liked how siding with Mr House didn't mean you have to be a dick. You can still be loyal to him and be respectful to those who want his technology - telling him you understand their reasons, but still won't undermine the trust placed in you. Doesn't he force you to blow up the BoS? I may be misremembering but I thought that was mandatory.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:03
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Kharmakazy posted:Doesn't he force you to blow up the BoS? I may be misremembering but I thought that was mandatory. Yeah, there's no way House is going to tolerate the existence of the BoS anywhere near his enormous high-tech playground full of robots and computers. E: On the plus side, the Brotherhood is an excellent source of your NCR FDA recommended level of powered armor and Gauss Rifles.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:05
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Kharmakazy posted:Doesn't he force you to blow up the BoS? I may be misremembering but I thought that was mandatory. Yeah he does. There was actually a way in the gamefiles to pass a speech check to convince him that it isn't necessary or something, but it didn't make it into the final game. Some mod restored it. It makes perfect sense that house wants the BoS gone, they're all about keeping the technology away from the people and for themselves, they'd no doubt interfere with house's operation. The BoS was big in the earlier years after the war, but with a society that recovers slowly and looks into technology for solutions again, they really do become outdated. Not exactly a secret, pretty much everything involving the brotherhood quest-wise hints at that. I'm still siding with them until I get power armor training and a nice T-51b. Then I'll turn on them.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:06
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Kharmakazy posted:Doesn't he force you to blow up the BoS? I may be misremembering but I thought that was mandatory. Destroying the BOS makes no-one a dick. 
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Apr 4, 2012 20:08
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Captain Walker posted:Also, the Legion and NCR have grand sweeping ambitions for the rest of America. House doesn't. His ending is basically "get off my lawn, whippersnappers" and if he gets the Mojave he seems content to turn it into his personal playground, where freedom isn't free but safety and peace are only 2,000 caps. He has no illusions that his philosophy will work anywhere but Vegas. But the NCR seems to think they can bring democracy to Arizona, and if the Legion isn't stopped they'll try and conquer California. House believes the best hope for stability is keeping both factions as far away from each other, and himself, as possible. Not entirely true. His plan for America is to gain enough wealth to build space ships and look for new, unspoiled worlds to colonize. This sounds like the best new hope for humanity to me (however impractical it may be, if anyone can do it, it's House).
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Apr 4, 2012 20:14
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Having finished Dead Money again on a new game, I am still profoundly annoyed that I can't tell Christine and Veronica that the other is alive.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:19
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RagingBoner posted:Not entirely true. His plan for America is to gain enough wealth to build space ships and look for new, unspoiled worlds to colonize. This sounds like the best new hope for humanity to me (however impractical it may be, if anyone can do it, it's House). Yeah, he may have grand ambitions but the motherfucker is an immortal genius who spent over a century fine-tuning said ambitions. The NCR and Legion, even in victory, seem like they'll eventually collapse (NCR sooner imo due to their continued reliance on dwindling old-world resources) but House, if he can keep out any real interference, can basically build his Randian utopia in a bubble. He's also the best personal ending for the Courier, since he basically takes the reigns of progress while you live the life of luxury and get to roam the wastes (the Yes Man ending has this too, but Yes Man doesn't really have a direction, he just maintains the status quo you set up). House is almost too good a choice due to how much better he is than everyone else. Independent Vegas always seemed like a bittersweet ending if you consider getting there part of Arcade's personal arc. Though really, whichever ending he gets seems to typify how badly you hosed up Vegas for the people who live there (his only happy ending is a House ending).
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Apr 4, 2012 20:25
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RagingBoner posted:Not entirely true. His plan for America is to gain enough wealth to build space ships and look for new, unspoiled worlds to colonize. This sounds like the best new hope for humanity to me (however impractical it may be, if anyone can do it, it's House). Might not be as impractical as you think. Keep in mind that there's a shitton of tech that we barely see the edges of and there are still groups out there developing new stuff. Fallout 3 had a group based out of MIT's ruins turning out androids indistinguishable from humans. That'd be a big help for space missions.
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Apr 4, 2012 20:36
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Stroth posted:Might not be as impractical as you think. Keep in mind that there's a shitton of tech that we barely see the edges of and there are still groups out there developing new stuff. Fallout 3 had a group based out of MIT's ruins turning out androids indistinguishable from humans. That'd be a big help for space missions. That was bethesda. They um.. do things like this. In the writing department.
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Apr 4, 2012 21:08
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Police Automaton posted:That was bethesda. They um.. do things like this. In the writing department. Really no weirder than the colony of super mutants running experiments on cyborg nightstalkers to cure their invisibility induced insanity. Besides, I thought that was one of the better quests in Fallout 3.
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Apr 4, 2012 21:26
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I wouldn't call it one of the better quests, but it wasn't that horrible either, it was the same half-thought out crap they usually do, really. That being said, FO3 was one of the games with the best writing they ever did, IMHO.
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Apr 4, 2012 21:32
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Stroth posted:Really no weirder than the colony of super mutants running experiments on cyborg nightstalkers to cure their invisibility induced insanity. They're not cyborg nightstalkers 
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Apr 4, 2012 22:14
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MrL_JaKiri posted:They're not cyborg nightstalkers No, they just ate a stealth boy and absorbed its powers.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:23
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poptart_fairy posted:Destroying the BOS makes no-one a dick. I tend to disagree. Their leader atm is a dick, but in general they aren't so bad. Their world view is a bit outdated since technology on par with theirs is being produced outside their territory and not salvaged. Just like everybody else in the fallout universe they are doing what they think is best. I guess that's why NV is more realistic than most games, there aren't really any good guys, just a bunch of groups of people doing what they think is best.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:25
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Kharmakazy posted:but in general they aren't so bad. In general they murder farmers for owning laser pistols. The Brotherhood are dicks. Hidden Bunker is just to scared of the NCR to go out a be dickish to people.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:28
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Stroth posted:In general they murder farmers for owning laser pistols. The Brotherhood are dicks. Hidden Bunker is just to scared of the NCR to go out a be dickish to people. The united states regularly murders people for trying to build weapons. We're a country though, so we call it war. Same thing on a smaller scale.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:31
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Sorry guys, but there's only one faction for me. NCR forever!   
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Apr 4, 2012 22:32
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Kharmakazy posted:I tend to disagree. Their leader atm is a dick, but in general they aren't so bad. Their world view is a bit outdated since technology on par with theirs is being produced outside their territory and not salvaged. Just like everybody else in the fallout universe they are doing what they think is best. I guess that's why NV is more realistic than most games, there aren't really any good guys, just a bunch of groups of people doing what they think is best. The minute they strapped a bomb to my neck, because I was dicking around near their base looking for supplies, was the minute they marked themselves as "people to be murdered." They're all dicks and I enjoyed blowing up their base.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:48
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Fibby Boy posted:The minute they strapped a bomb to my neck, because I was dicking around near their base looking for supplies, was the minute they marked themselves as "people to be murdered." They're all dicks and I enjoyed blowing up their base. That's fine. It's all a matter of opinion anyway. My assessment isn't really unbiased anyway since I can't seem to mentally separate my dealings with them in various games.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:56
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Fibby Boy posted:The minute they strapped a bomb to my neck, because I was dicking around near their base looking for supplies, was the minute they marked themselves as "people to be murdered." They're all dicks and I enjoyed blowing up their base.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:00
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Fibby Boy posted:The minute they strapped a bomb to my neck, because I was dicking around near their base looking for supplies, was the minute they marked themselves as "people to be murdered." They're all dicks and I enjoyed blowing up their base. I don't know, I saw that more as an act of necessity. Every single faction in the Wasteland has it out for the Brotherhood of Steel, and the only reason they haven't been wiped out yet is because they've managed to remain hidden. Now, look at it from their perspective: Somehow, some random wastelander has the passcode (A passcode that itself was only given to select Recon teams, who have all disappeared) to your home base. It's not like you can let him leave-after all, you have no idea of the NCR is still actively hunting you, and that wastelander may just run and give them the location and password (if he hasn't already) if you let him go. Same reason why you can't just let him explore the base. If the Brotherhood really were dicks, they would kill the PC and take his stuff. (And the PC can have a LOT of stuff that they may want.) Instead, they give the PC a chance to work with them. It's certainly not NICE, by any stretch of the imagination, but realistically it's the only option they have. Edit: Also, by blowing up the base you're killing dozens of children whose only crime was to have been born into the group. Great job! Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 23:01
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Stroth posted:Really no weirder than the colony of super mutants running experiments on cyborg nightstalkers to cure their invisibility induced insanity. Besides, I thought that was one of the better quests in Fallout 3. It's two people, not an entire colony, and chimeric animals have existed in Fallout since FO1. Blade Runner replicants, though? Whole different bag.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:05
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I don't know, I saw that more as an act of necessity. Every single faction in the Wasteland has it out for the Brotherhood of Steel, and the only reason they haven't been wiped out yet is because they've managed to remain hidden. Now, look at it from their perspective: Somehow, some random wastelander has the passcode (A passcode that itself was only given to select Recon teams, who have all disappeared) to your home base. It's not like you can let him leave-after all, you have no idea of the NCR is still actively hunting you, and that wastelander may just run and give them the location and password (if he hasn't already) if you let him go. Same reason why you can't just let him explore the base. If the Brotherhood really were dicks, they would kill the PC and take his stuff. (And the PC can have a LOT of stuff that they may want.) Instead, they give the PC a chance to work with them. It's certainly not NICE, by any stretch of the imagination, but realistically it's the only option they have. There's a passcode? I remember the bomb thing, but I don't recall any passcode.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:10
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Passcode to explode the base, but you could wander in at any time. If you don't have Veronica they'll take you in and collar you though to test you.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:13
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Defiance Industries posted:It's two people, not an entire colony, and chimeric animals have existed in Fallout since FO1. Blade Runner replicants, though? Whole different bag. Like I said, lazy bethesda writing. Actually I'm going to go ahead and say that questline was crap. When you have robots in your world that have their style mostly out of 50s scifi literature and lost in space, you kind of have to explain a little why and how you made that giant leap to replicants a bit more than Bethesda did there in that questline. But as usual, they didn't explain anything and just hade some small sidenote of a facility where apparently the magic of their creation happens, also that Quest literally had no tie-in with the rest of the world whatsoever, we meet two of those androids in that game, you'd think if they are that relatively common in the world that there even exists an underground network to free them from their synthetic slavery, they'd leave kind of an impact on the world, knowledge and culture of the people in the game besides never being mentioned outside of that very quest again. Hmm in what other recent bethesda title did we see this kind of quest structure? Also the BoS literally cares about nobody else except themselves. It's even in their rulebook. Only thing that matters for them is playing keep-away with technology after what happened with FEV. Again Bethesda broke this by turning them into literal knights in shining armor in FO3. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 23:14
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Police Automaton posted:Also the BoS literally cares about nobody else except themselves. It's even in their rulebook. Again Bethesda broke this by turning them into literal knights in shining armor in FO3. Everybody cares about only themselves. Any altruistic motives they display are self serving. As far as androids are concerned... I can't fathom why they would even bother to make them if they did have the technology. I can't think of any real use for them given the setting. It would take a tremendous amount of resources to make them, and they are less efficient and less loyal than a protectron. I can't think of any way to rationalize building an android in a post apocalyptic setting.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:18
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As far as I can remember, there are three ways to get into Hidden Valley: Veronica, picking the door, or finding one of the dead scout patrols and using their passcode to get the door open. I never said the Brotherhood was good by any means, but they're not all jerks, either. Just like any of the other factions in the Mojave waste. (Except for the Kings, obviously )
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Apr 4, 2012 23:21
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Kharmakazy posted:Everybody cares about only themselves. Any altruistic motives they display are self serving. The Followers of the Apocalypse are basically the anti-BoS. BoS literally kills people for laser pistols. They're dicks. Actually, depending on what resources they need, it would make a lot of sense to build androids in a postapocalyptic setting. Humans in a world like this are rare, skilled humans even moreso, if the costs of androids are in a reasonable relation to what they can accomplish, they can fill up jobs nobody else can take, because nobody else is there. We in our world would need humanoid androids less because even highly skilled workforce is just simply cheaper and easily obtainable. That subplot still didn't make any loving sense.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:23
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Police Automaton posted:The Followers of the Apocalypse are basically the anti-BoS. BoS literally kills people for laser pistols. They're dicks. I disagree. Robots are skilled labor. Androids are technological equivalent to humans. The sheer amount of microcircuitry involved makes producing even one more costly than all the gold bars from dead money. Especially considering that no factories exist to make any of the parts, they would have to be hand constructed. You don't need a machine with feelings to do skilled labor. Robots yes. Androids no.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:27
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I never said the Brotherhood was good by any means, but they're not all jerks, either. Just like any of the other factions in the Mojave waste. (Except for the Kings, obviously
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Apr 4, 2012 23:34
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Kharmakazy posted:I disagree. Robots are skilled labor. Androids are technological equivalent to humans. The sheer amount of microcircuitry involved makes producing even one more costly than all the gold bars from dead money. Especially considering that no factories exist to make any of the parts, they would have to be hand constructed. Actually it's really hard to make absoulte statements like that about fallout, because in none of the games they were really clear how skilled or intelligent the usual-run-of-the-mill robots even are. Apparently artificial intelligence being capable of abstract tought and deductive reasoning is quite possible with the technology of fallout, see Eden, VAX or Skynet. The usual robots you encounter in all of the games seem to follow simple programming though, not even advanced enough to actually process their surroundings or grow beyond their pre-war role in any way. The Brainbots you can encounter seem to be a huge technological leap, even retaining some of the intelligence and personality the brains they use for their processing have. It does seem to be quite all over the place though. There's no way to even tell what an android would "cost" in a world with this technology. Also you could make a point for that you can take the brain of some random joe and use it in your robot contraption to make it intelligent without him even agreeing to it. A world like this would certainly not need replicants. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Apr 4, 2012 |
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Apr 4, 2012 23:37
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Opposing Farce posted:I know the Kings are too small-time and a little too goofy to have their own ending path (and there wouldn't really be a significant difference between that and Yes Man anyway), but there's a part of me that still wishes they did. I wasn't really able to determine any of their goals besides not letting people in their turf get hosed with too much. They weren't too good at that considering hobos kept running at me with pipes.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:37
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It always hurts my feelings to kill off the Kings every time I play through the game. Then I remember that Pacer called me a good dog during the Van Graffs quest and I feel less remorseful about spiking his jet. The hobos were the best part of freeside, always trying and failing to get me. The dead body trick is pretty funny when you're walking around with a Gatling Laser on your back though. Yes, this is a man I want to rob and gently caress with with my switchblade and lead pipe.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:39
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Stanos posted:It always hurts my feelings to kill off the Kings every time I play through the game.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:40
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Because Pacer is a jerk. I take the robot dog and run.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:41
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I generally just shoot them on sight. Robot dog is not dogmeat.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:43
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