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Wolfsheim posted:Anyone who doesn't kill that guy I just don't know what to tell you. He's even lying to you about still collecting them, he has like eight on him. That, and his gear is a nice +10 Barter for various skill checks early on. That bastard has never not approached me when I'm in the middle of fighting raiders. I believe he's even gotten me killed a couple of times from getting shot in the back while he rattles on. So I make it a point now to just blow him away as I see him approaching. Hey don't blame me, buddy. I thought you were their back-up trying to ambush me.  Also, another one here who's just started playing Fallout since it went
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Apr 7, 2012 15:12
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Tewratomeh posted:It's cool seeing all the style similarities and "feel" that carried over into New Vegas, but I don't know if I'll ever get used to the gameplay after the open-world exploration and real-time combat of New Vegas. I had the same reaction in reverse when I first heard about Fallout 3. Now I'm going back to 1 and 2 after playing 3 and New Vegas, and I can definitely see how going FPS was an improvement. Not being able to find items because they're tiny and not outlined on the screen, or worse, because the isometric view means they're hidden by a wall, is really annoying. Combat takes way too long too. Spending minutes at a time kiting giant ants in the Temple of Trials made me glad that the Fallout series isn't turn-based anymore.
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Apr 7, 2012 15:43
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Kurtofan posted:Haha, that guy broke my immersion so hard when I first met him. Every playthrough of the game, I almost always kill that guy. Favorite is to roast him with an Incinerator.
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Apr 7, 2012 18:36
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Well yeah, it's a decade old game. Of course it's going to feel outdated and really clunky at this point. I wouldn't doubt a lot of the fawning at this point is rose-colored glasses but boy do they put out a nice hue. 
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Apr 7, 2012 19:18
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To be fair, even back then battles with more than 4 participants felt slow and clunky, also esp. FO2 was horribly broken unpatched. For me it was all about the writing and the setting. Something which still works.
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Apr 7, 2012 19:27
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Stanos posted:Well yeah, it's a decade old game. Of course it's going to feel outdated and really clunky at this point. I wouldn't doubt a lot of the fawning at this point is rose-colored glasses but boy do they put out a nice hue. Maybe the issue isn't that turn based isometric games are bad, but that he doesn't like turn based isometric games? I much prefer the combat of FO1/2, despite coming to TB isometric games relatively late in life (at the time I preferred things like Diablo, and only got through BG2 initially by cheating all the time).
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Apr 7, 2012 19:27
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Maybe the issue isn't that turn based isometric games are bad, but that he doesn't like turn based isometric games? In my opinion they both have their places. UFO for example wouldn't work realtime, it just wouldn't. Same for JA2. There are so many choices to make, so many combat decisions and equipment in that game and to a lesser extend in UFO, it's staggering. It would be completly unplayable realtime without any AI support, which IMHO didn't turn out too well in X-Com Apocalypse, at least when you played it in realtime. The thing with FO1/2 is they're not that different in this department from FO3/NV. You usually have one "good" gun and maybe some support like stimpacks and hand grenades. There are no decisions to make, you can only control yourself and enemies come in a straight line at you like in an FPS. No need or possibility to take cover after a shot or kneel down or something, with the already limited amount of action points you have, which doesn't even mean anything anyways because you have to basically stand right in front of your enemies with most guns to be able to hit them reliably. There's no quick movement for units you cant see or are not directly involved in whats happening around you so when you start a fight in a city enjoy watching the animation of "settler" casually and slowly walking for three steps away from combat. This all, together with its almost completly random nature of damage and hit chances, made the turn based combat kind of tedious and annoying sometimes. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 7, 2012 |
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Apr 7, 2012 19:36
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Yeah, the real major difference between the combat in Fallout and 3/New Vegas is just that enemies don't wait until you're done attacking them to attack. The flow is basically the same, you have "action points" that you spend in VATS (although you're certainly not forced or obligated to use VATS at all) and when you're not in VATS you're getting attacked. Then your action points refill and you attack again. Even the locational targeting is the same, with percentage-based damage and everything. Just something about the "feel" of sneaking to avoid combat (where you actually crouch instead of just "SNEAK MODE ACTIVATED"), and how you actually run in real-time instead of point-clicking... it just feels better. And again, that's probably just because Fallout is a fairly old game at this point, so it feels clunky even where it might've been amazing at the time.
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Apr 7, 2012 19:51
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Tewratomeh posted:Just something about the "feel" of sneaking to avoid combat (where you actually crouch instead of just "SNEAK MODE ACTIVATED"), and how you actually run in real-time instead of point-clicking... it just feels better. And again, that's probably just because Fallout is a fairly old game at this point, so it feels clunky even where it might've been amazing at the time. They had real time games in 1997/8, you know. And once again: personal preference for real time games does not make turn based games inherently bad. If it did you wouldn't have so many people funding the Wasteland kickstarter because it would an isometric turn based RPG.
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Apr 7, 2012 19:55
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MrL_JaKiri posted:They had real time games in 1997/8, you know. I hope wasteland gives us tons of weapons and weapon attachments and different vests and backpacks with different capacities to store stuff in, and I say this completly unironically while I think it probably won't happen.
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Apr 7, 2012 20:06
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More customisation = better than. Especially if the effects are more BG2's unique bonuses on many unique weapons rather than DA's "+1 to damage".
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Apr 7, 2012 20:10
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Francois Kofko posted:Every time I play, I think to myself "Okay, I'm playing a melee dude this time, I don't need all these 12ga Flechettes". Every time I buy them all anyway. Just think of all the caps you have by selling all the ammo you loot; it's weightless, free money. Every unarmed/melee character I've used has been rich as gently caress (to put it bluntly).
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Apr 7, 2012 20:20
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Tewratomeh posted:Even the locational targeting is the same, with percentage-based damage and everything. New Vegas doesn't let me smash kids in the groins with a super sledge.  Re: loot, after completing Dead Money, I never needed to do anything to make money ever again. At the end of the game I still had about 20,000 caps in my inventory, and 5 gold bars in my room safe in Novac. It may have helped that I maxed out barter in my late 20's and had it at 70-80 for about ten levels prior. When I go back through on my next character, I'm just going to force myself to stop looting entirely after that, except for things I actually want/need. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 7, 2012 |
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Apr 7, 2012 21:06
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I thought the games really good about giving youstuff to spend your money on, especially with GRA. At least in comparison to F3/other similar games like the TES series, NV's money is worth a fortune. I still have like 3-4 of the 28k GRA weapons left to buy in my game, and I wasn't maxed out on implants until 45 hours in. The DLC does just kind of throw tons of money at you though.
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Apr 7, 2012 21:27
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THE PWNER posted:I actually don't remember. I've been playing the same save for a full year now on and off but I definitely remember hearing that somewhere. IIRC certain dialogue with him if you prod him about the Legion has him explain to you how it is based on ancient Rome as if you don't already know that, but this is because most people in the wasteland are assumed to be ignorant of pre-war history. Arcade shares similar dialogue when he speaks Latin; if you pick the puzzled response, he somewhat condescendingly explains that it is a very old language and that the Legion did not invent it. I don't think there's any kind of dialogue that implies that this is supposed to be a secret, or that Caesar's manipulation of the Arizona tribals hinges on them thinking that he's making all this stuff up.
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Apr 8, 2012 03:18
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Is it just me or is Arcade kind of an insufferably whiny little poo poo who is mostly useless. He's like the absolute worst elements of the Followers of the Apocalypse made manifest.
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Apr 8, 2012 03:59
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Tribals are, generally speaking, ignorant of any historic details about the Pre-War world. Hell, most people today are ignorant about anything short of history's greatest hits.
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Apr 8, 2012 04:00
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Captain Oblivious posted:Is it just me or is Arcade kind of an insufferably whiny little poo poo who is mostly useless. Arcade owns and you just have bad opinions.
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Apr 8, 2012 04:03
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Beardless Riker posted:Just think of all the caps you have by selling all the ammo you loot; it's weightless, free money. Every unarmed/melee character I've used has been rich as gently caress (to put it bluntly). Sell my ammo? Don't be crazy, dude.
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Apr 8, 2012 04:16
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Giggily posted:I just started another playthrough now that I have all the DLC, and there are some really strange differences. Some of the scripted encounters are a lot harder now than they used to be due to increased numbers, and then I spent about 10 minutes sneaking around Primm because I could have loving sworn that at any moment a dozen more guys would pop out and start mowing me down, only to have them never materialize. I haven't noticed any differences in other locations, yet, though. Goodsprings is about as deserted as it always seemed to be, but it'll probably become a lot more apparent when I hit New Vegas or something. The patch that reduced the number of spawns in Primm, the road to REPCONN, and at Black Mountain also increased the difficulty of a number of enemies, especially between Nipton and Novac. Groups of Vipers often have one guy with a grenade launcher. Good for Explosives-based characters.
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Apr 8, 2012 05:12
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Speaking of tribals, it really irks me that this protagonist has no background. Who am I? Why am I delivering this loving package? How did I get here? Where am I from? I was so excited about the Lonesome Road because all the promotional material hints at it being about "home" and the courier's background, but no, it's just about some schizophrenic egging you on to venture into a deathtrap for no real reason. I did enjoy it, though.
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Apr 8, 2012 05:30
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thehumandignity posted:Speaking of tribals, it really irks me that this protagonist has no background. Who am I? Why am I delivering this loving package? How did I get here? Where am I from? I was so excited about the Lonesome Road because all the promotional material hints at it being about "home" and the courier's background, but no, it's just about some schizophrenic egging you on to venture into a deathtrap for no real reason. I did enjoy it, though.
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Apr 8, 2012 05:37
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You're a courier. You coury. You come from someplace else, and until New Vegas you've never done anything that you thought was important. In fact, that's one of the themes of Lonesome Road. To Ulysses, the event was so important that it defined his entire life. To the courier, it wasn't even important enough to include in the character intro. The progression of DLC does lead you to believe that there's an epic conflict of titans coming up, dueling over ideologies. But when you get there, it doesn't work like that in reality. You're not mythic figures, you're people trying to get along. Yes, you're fighting to shape your world, but you're still human. They primed this theme back in Honest Hearts in particular, where Graham is hardly anything like the Burned Man legend.
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Apr 8, 2012 05:40
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Tendales posted:They primed this theme back in Honest Hearts in particular, where Graham is hardly anything like the Burned Man legend. What? Graham was a  + personified.
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Apr 8, 2012 05:43
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Omnicarus posted:What? Graham was a Graham was written like an actual person whose motivations can't be summed up in smilies.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:15
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Tendales posted:The progression of DLC does lead you to believe that there's an epic conflict of titans coming up, dueling over ideologies. But when you get there, it doesn't work like that in reality. You're not mythic figures, you're people trying to get along. Yes, you're fighting to shape your world, but you're still human. The biggest weakness of the Lonesome Road is that the courier really was given no reason to care - Ulysses basically boils down to a crazy person obsessed with the courier's (meaningless and easily replaceable) role in a tragic accident. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Apr 8, 2012 |
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Apr 8, 2012 06:16
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Strudel Man posted:That's dumb. People fight over ideologies all the drat time. The central conflict of the game is ideologically-driven. "You're still human" in no way prevents a 'duel over ideologies.' Sorry if I wasn't clear, my point was that the characters are people that have ideologies, not forces of nature that are the physical manifestation of ideologies. It's the difference between the man and the myth: The myth may sound more , but the man is more interesting.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:28
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I liked Lonesome Road, but it's biggest flaw by far is that I the Courier have no real dialogue options of worth concerning the events Ulysses talks about. You'd think surviving such a huge gently caress off explosion would warrant SOME kind of comment but no, my only dialogue options are flippantly dismissing everything. As was said, KOTOR 2 did a much better job about defining your history but also letting you define it at the same time.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:31
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Captain Oblivious posted:I liked Lonesome Road, but it's biggest flaw by far is that I the Courier have no real dialogue options of worth concerning the events Ulysses talks about. You'd think surviving such a huge gently caress off explosion would warrant SOME kind of comment but no, my only dialogue options are flippantly dismissing everything. As was said, KOTOR 2 did a much better job about defining your history but also letting you define it at the same time. I assumed from this that the explosion didn't happen immediately upon delivery of the thing and the courier had no idea they were even related.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:34
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thehumandignity posted:I assumed from this that the explosion didn't happen immediately upon delivery of the thing and the courier had no idea they were even related. Honestly this in and of itself is the other problem. It's so poorly conveyed you might be right. You also might not be. The Courier having not poo poo dialogue options would go a long ways towards fixing the problem. Vegas usually gave me pretty good dialogue options to work with but Lonesome Road, where it mattered most, was a let down.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:37
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Another problem is that it didn't matter. The courier has no reason to enter the Divide except for the crazy person goading him to.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:41
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thehumandignity posted:Speaking of tribals, it really irks me that this protagonist has no background. Who am I?
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Apr 8, 2012 06:48
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The problem isn't having a background, it's how it's handled. FO3 gives you the entirety of your background, drat be to how incongruous it is and the plot is with how you can act. KOTOR 2 is the best example of giving the player character a background. Give them a what, let them handle the why.
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Apr 8, 2012 06:49
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Is there a character creator/perk plotter tool out there?
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Apr 8, 2012 08:37
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Strudel Man posted:The biggest weakness of the Lonesome Road is that the courier really was given no reason to care - Ulysses basically boils down to a crazy person obsessed with the courier's (meaningless and easily replaceable) role in a tragic accident. The funny thing is that Ulysses ends up being right about the courier, though arguably he had a hand in making it come true. Back when the events that drove Ulysses insane were taking place, the courier was, while probably somewhat hardy considering being the post-apocalyptic version of the Pony Express takes serious balls, just an average dude. But because Ulysses passed on the job meant for him and handed it off to the courier hoping it would do him in, he set in motion the chain of events that would lead Courier Six into becoming the deciding factor of the entirety of the Mojave's future. Tendales posted:You're a courier. You coury. You come from someplace else, and until New Vegas you've never done anything that you thought was important. Man, what? The ending to Lonesome Road is the most epic thing in the entire game. WARNING - mad spoilers follow: You've chased down the ghostlike figure that's been matching your step since day one. After a long and grueling journey down the absolute most difficult path the game has thrown at you, you come to an end. When you finally confront him and he's waiting for you in an enormous missile silo-turned-temple flanked by his twin eyebots, face-obscured by a respirator, half-mad and ready to wipe what's left of civilization off the face of the planet in a bitter recreation of the events that created the Fallout world some two-hundred years before. And then, no matter what options you take, you're pulling off some legendary poo poo. You're either fighting, courier against courier, in the most harrowing battle (against a human opponent anyway, gently caress those irradiated deathclaws) in the entire game before killing an unending onslaught of marked men on your way to freedom, or you're talking the nigh-unkillable badass off the edge of utter insanity through sheer belief in your chosen ideology before standing side by side to face down the same unending onslaught of marked men etc etc. Then it all ends with you causing the apocalypse all over again (I love that this gives you Powder Ganger and Boomer fame, by the way) or sacrificing the only friend you've had on this perilous journey. During the ending slides, all the absolute horrors you killed your way through now let you pass unmolested, with even the feral tunnelers in total awe of your silent grandeur. If it were any more epic and allegorical, they would teach that poo poo in English class alongside Beowulf.
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Apr 8, 2012 09:07
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I'm finally getting around to playing the DLCs, and I just finished Honest Hearts. The Survivalist's tale is just... 
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Apr 8, 2012 17:15
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Captain Oblivious posted:The problem isn't having a background, it's how it's handled. FO3 gives you the entirety of your background, drat be to how incongruous it is and the plot is with how you can act. Note, I'm only talking about in the scope of the regular game. I haven't played the DLCs.
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Apr 8, 2012 17:42
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Count me as one of the folk who prefer the non-persona approach to the Courier. I absolutely love how Ulysses gets bent out of shape for how you've done something you quite likely didn't even remember (although I'm a bit sad you couldn't really piss him off by playing dumb with it...), and feel anything that really went beyond that would have spoiled the magic. You're the courier, the courier is you - or your post-apoc fantasy equivalent. It's a nice sense of freedom for me.
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Apr 8, 2012 17:45
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thehumandignity posted:Speaking of tribals, it really irks me that this protagonist has no background. Who am I? You make the character, you decide 
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Apr 8, 2012 17:49
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Yeah, it's not as fun being a Crazy Mass-Murdering Cannibal when the game tells you that being a Crazy Mass-Murdering Cannibal is totally out of character for you. Like if the White Glove Society missions only gave you the option of being disgusted by their cannibalism and wanting to put an end to it. If they ascribed a back-story to the Courier it'd basically be the Grand Theft Auto problem where the protagonist is a nice, reasonable person who spends time between missions massacring innocent people.
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Apr 8, 2012 18:10
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