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Hmm. So what'd be a good alternative to a Mac Pro, if we're never gonna see another? Building a Hackintosh seems like more than I want to do, but I'd like to have a robust machine for my own development work.
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Apr 13, 2012 23:33
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I don't understand it to be honest. The margins are smaller, sure, but it's not as though you need to put in nearly the same R&D to keep the Mac Pro current. TB is just not mature enough to support professional users yet, though I'm sure it will be eventually.
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Apr 14, 2012 00:05
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MrBond posted:More like Intel doesn't care about keeping xeons bleeding edge, or isn't able to. More like they'd like to take care of some extra validation/etc. They share their uArch with their desktop counterparts, but it takes longer for "server" platforms. The upcoming Romley is an absolute mess of possible configurations that all need to be validated.
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Apr 14, 2012 01:33
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MaverickEX posted:Hmm. So what'd be a good alternative to a Mac Pro, if we're never gonna see another? Building a Hackintosh seems like more than I want to do, but I'd like to have a robust machine for my own development work. If Apple drops the Pro, it looks like the options might be fairly bare: 1) Just get an iMac. If the workload demands and allows, use a render farm for heavy lifting. Definitely doesn't work for everyone. 2) Hackintosh, but compatibility might be spotty or even lovely if there's no official Patsburg/SNB-E support. Obviously subpar. 3) Transition to Windows or Linux workstations from Dell, Lenovo, some other vendor, or even whitebox workstations. Obviously kinda sucks if you've got a platform investment in OSX of any kind. But I think the writing has been on the wall for a while that Apple has been focusing on consumer hardware/software/services and finding a lot of money in it. The Apple ecosystem really works best as a consumer money siphon. A workstation doesn't print cash the way an iOS device does. Even if the workstations are profitable, it may just be more profitable to focus on other things.
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Apr 14, 2012 01:44
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I wonder if they will keep the Mac Pro as it is until Thunderbolt either sinks or swims. Then either revive or kill it based on that. It's a shame Psystar lost. We could have had a budding xMac cottage industry.
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Apr 14, 2012 01:54
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Factory Factory posted:But I think the writing has been on the wall for a while that Apple has been focusing on consumer hardware/software/services and finding a lot of money in it. The Apple ecosystem really works best as a consumer money siphon. A workstation doesn't print cash the way an iOS device does. Even if the workstations are profitable, it may just be more profitable to focus on other things. This is exactly it. We are a prominent film school that went all FCP about 5 years ago after being FCP and Avid. For the past 3 years, I could see the writing on the wall about FCP, and when FCP X came out, I wasn't surprised in the least. Apple has been systematically killing enterprise and professional apps and hardware over the past few years. 1) Axed the XServes with no viable alternative. I have been bitching to them directly about the lack of enterprise virtualization support (VmWare ESXi/vSphere) for a while now, and its fallen on deaf ears 2) Starting with Lion, OS X Server is now a loving App from the Store, and they've taken away features with every release since SL, with ML being the most egregious. 3) Obviously FCP X being iMovie Pro or Wedding Video Pro however you look at it. They also axed any kind of optical media creation (Apple FCP Evangelist I spoke to "Discs are dead"). 4) Logic hasn't had a major update in 3 years, but Garage Band keeps growing 5) Mac Pro is on it's death bed with no real power users / professional alternative. A single socket consumer board with mobile graphics won't cut it for workstation class users. 6) Aperture went from a professionally oriented and priced application ($299 I think) to $80 on the app store with no major updates for a couple of years. Apple's answers to everything are 'cloud' right now. When I asked about After Effects, he said 'Everyone outsources that now." Right. We are most likely moving to CS6 or Avid next fall,and I've been lobbying to start replacing our Mac Pros with PC workstations because our needs certainly can't be met with an iMac and TB.
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Apr 14, 2012 02:16
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mayodreams posted:
What about high end iMacs? They might not match what a super duper new Mac Pro would do, but I'm pretty sure the 8-core ones etc would be competitive, and I don't think the high end ones are still mobile chipsets. As someone who owns a (few years old, but was upper-mid range model at the time) Mac Pro, they've never aggressively had the TOP END video cards really. I even upgraded to one of the later ones -w hich was lagging behind Windows equivalents (price:performance). I'm not a video professional though!
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Apr 14, 2012 02:28
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mayodreams posted:6) Aperture went from a professionally oriented and priced application ($299 I think) to $80 on the app store with no major updates for a couple of years.. This actually caused Adobe to drop the price of Lightroom to something far more reasonable. I don't think we can judge the intended audience based on price for this one.
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Apr 14, 2012 02:30
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Fayk posted:What about high end iMacs? They might not match what a super duper new Mac Pro would do, but I'm pretty sure the 8-core ones etc would be competitive, and I don't think the high end ones are still mobile chipsets. The high end iMacs aren't 8-core, they're 4-core with hyperthreading. Mac Pros are 12-core with hyperthreading, a full 24 logical processors. A top-end SNB-E update would be 16-core with hyperthreading, 32 logical processors. That's four times the CPU of an iMac. Hell of a difference.
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Apr 14, 2012 02:43
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The Mac Pro won't be killed off until it gets a Thunderbolt update. At that point, you at least have the option of external GPUs, storage chains etc. They're not long for this earth, but Apple will still be making them for some time yet. Apple hasn't 'abandoned' the Mac Pro at all. They've always followed Intel's Xeon chipset path, and they just haven't had an update with suitable processors in a long time. Marco Arment has a useful piece on this; http://www.marco.org/2012/03/29/xeon-e5-benchmark
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Apr 14, 2012 04:52
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Fayk posted:What about high end iMacs? They might not match what a super duper new Mac Pro would do, but I'm pretty sure the 8-core ones etc would be competitive, and I don't think the high end ones are still mobile chipsets. For reference, our high end suites use: 1)Best GPU available 2)Video card by way of AJA, Black Magic, or RED. The RED Rocket (loving retarded name) requires 8x PCI-E, which is the most available bandwidth on current gen ThunderBolt 3)Raid card that requires at least a 4x PCI-E slot or Fibre Channel Card And as Factory Factory said, you can only get high end quad core CPUs in an iMac, and the graphics are actually mobile chipsets, not the full desktop versions, which does make a huge difference. Never mind the fact that you can not get a professional graphics (Quadro or FireGL) in an iMac, which impacts other professional applications (AutoCAD, Pro Engineer, etc) more than the video field. The ThunderBolt PCI-E expansion chassis on the market now are like $1k, and the storage is absurdly priced too. Since Premiere and Media Composer both run on Windows, the cost of a comparable PC workstation is cheaper and more powerful than an iMac and TB.
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Apr 14, 2012 05:17
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quote:2)Video card by way of AJA, Black Magic, or RED. The RED Rocket (loving retarded name) requires 8x PCI-E, which is the most available bandwidth on current gen ThunderBolt I know it's awesome for editing and is super powerful, but that loving name makes me giggle all the time. Why would they name it that...
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Apr 14, 2012 15:03
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Shmoogy posted:This actually caused Adobe to drop the price of Lightroom to something far more reasonable. I don't think we can judge the intended audience based on price for this one. Don't get me wrong, I bought Aperture at the lower price and love it, and I like that it caused Adobe to make Lightroom better and cheaper, but that does not get around the fact they haven't really been updating it either.
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Apr 14, 2012 17:15
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Who knows, maybe with Tim in charge he'll kill the Mac Pro and replace it with something a little bit smaller, running with one or two i7's and a few PCI slots.
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Apr 14, 2012 17:42
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:Who knows, maybe with Tim in charge he'll kill the Mac Pro and replace it with something a little bit smaller, running with one or two i7's and a few PCI slots. I'm not sure but I don't think you can run dual-i7 chips. SMP is a Xeon-exclusive feature. I think the problem with a smaller Mac Pro (say 4 RAM slots and 3 internal drive bays) would be the fact that some huge PCI cards wouldn't fit in there unless you didn't make the case much smaller than it already is. A triple-size mini would be cool but I don't think enough people would buy it. 2 PCI slots, 4 ram, 3 hard drive...
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Apr 14, 2012 20:03
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~Coxy posted:I wonder if they will keep the Mac Pro as it is until Thunderbolt either sinks or swims. It's not like Apple doesn't have a history of abandoning a proven technology for something they are super hot for that's not quite adopted or completely baked yet. I guess I am glad I never bothered to finish up my ACSA certifications, since OSX Server is not exactly going to be a huge market force anytime soon :[
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Apr 14, 2012 20:28
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Viktor posted:Side note; you really need to loctite the case screws back in because they work out/loose over time.
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Apr 14, 2012 23:09
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Just saw this posted in the monitor thread: http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/14/sharp-rolls-out-high-res-igzo-lcds-destined-for-tablets-laptops/ Any chance the new MacBooks would have retina displays, or is this not enough lead time for something like that?
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Apr 15, 2012 02:22
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movax posted:More like they'd like to take care of some extra validation/etc. They share their uArch with their desktop counterparts, but it takes longer for "server" platforms. The upcoming Romley is an absolute mess of possible configurations that all need to be validated. I had a look at upgrading my dual socket (non-apple) server not too long ago. The same server hardware was available for the same niche but for 77% of the price. Server hardware doesn't really move forward that quickly until there are real, stable improvements. It's not like the 90's or the early 00's where we saw massive improvements continuously. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Apr 15, 2012 |
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Apr 15, 2012 03:23
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What's the outlook on the mini? Mac rumors says don't buy, but they don't show any rumors about updates and it's only about halfway through its usual cycle.
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Apr 15, 2012 16:54
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Casao posted:What's the outlook on the mini? Mac rumors says don't buy, but they don't show any rumors about updates and it's only about halfway through its usual cycle. It's waiting on Ivy Bridge, like the rest of the line.
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Apr 15, 2012 16:58
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cbirdsong posted:It's waiting on Ivy Bridge, like the rest of the line. Alright, has there been any insight to if it will be updated this month with the supposed MacBook Pro update? Or any rumors about anything beside ivy bridge?
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Apr 15, 2012 17:01
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Last I read, dual-core Ivy Bridge parts aren't expected to launch until summer. That's the Mini and the Air.
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Apr 15, 2012 17:09
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I'm hoping for a 15" Macbook Pro/Air that only has integrated graphics. I currently use gfxstatus to always turn off the discrete card anyway. Apple's graphics switching is so poo poo, why the hell does Twitter, Chrome, or practically anything you run force the video card on? Remove the optical and make it slimmer and it's be great. 1080p standard wouldn't hurt either. 1440x900 is rear end and is practically making me claw my eyes out. I can't wait to get rid of this thing and get the updated Macbook.
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Apr 15, 2012 18:07
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Mu Zeta posted:I'm hoping for a 15" Macbook Pro/Air that only has integrated graphics. I currently use gfxstatus to always turn off the discrete card anyway. Apple's graphics switching is so poo poo, why the hell does Twitter, Chrome, or practically anything you run force the video card on? If an app uses fancy bits in Core Animation, or uses OpenGL at all, it's very difficult for the system to know which card would be ideal (a lot of OpenGL stuff you'd be better off running on discrete). As of Lion, there's an API for developers to tell the system which card they prefer: QA 1734
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Apr 15, 2012 19:26
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Mu Zeta posted:I'm hoping for a 15" Macbook Pro/Air that only has integrated graphics. I currently use gfxstatus to always turn off the discrete card anyway. Apple's graphics switching is so poo poo, why the hell does Twitter, Chrome, or practically anything you run force the video card on? Remove the optical and make it slimmer and it's be great. 1080p standard wouldn't hurt either. 1440x900 is rear end and is practically making me claw my eyes out. I can't wait to get rid of this thing and get the updated Macbook. I don't need a thinner 15" Pro, but I also wouldn't mind having one with integrated graphics. HD 4000 should be plenty for any UI stuff. I have zero interest in any games (current ones at least) or 3D graphics otherwise.
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Apr 15, 2012 21:22
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Last I read, dual-core Ivy Bridge parts aren't expected to launch until summer. That's the Mini and the Air. Whatever the case with the mini I wouldn't expect it until summer regardless of parts just cause they tend to space releases out, and the notebooks and iMac generally have priority.
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Apr 15, 2012 21:35
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I just wish Apple would go back to discrete-only GPUs. And maybe giving us nVidia or ATI chips again? Can't understand why they jigger the entire system into offloading all graphics work including the GUI to the GPU (brilliant) and then start using GPUs from a company that hasn't figured how to make good ones yet (retarded).
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Apr 15, 2012 22:31
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Binary Badger posted:I just wish Apple would go back to discrete-only GPUs. And maybe giving us nVidia or ATI chips again? Can't understand why they jigger the entire system into offloading all graphics work including the GUI to the GPU (brilliant) and then start using GPUs from a company that hasn't figured how to make good ones yet (retarded). You'd prefer ATI over AMD? AMD bought ATI in 2006. As for why Apple would use both the Intel IGP and a discrete chip, the answer is really, really simple: better battery life without sacrificing the option of more horsepower.
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Apr 15, 2012 22:49
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Factory Factory posted:You'd prefer ATI over AMD? AMD bought ATI in 2006. This. I've had a notebook with a discrete GPU in the past. There really is no point unless you absolutely must play a game or something. The Intel GPU is more than enough for OS rendering. I guess a better answer is that most people buying computers aren't goons that need to play the latest game while they are out buying their mountain dew and cheetos. AbsoluteLlama fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 15, 2012 |
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Apr 15, 2012 23:24
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I'm hoping they'll surprise us with a new Pro, a bit like when everyone thought the Mini was going to be discontinued but then the nice aluminium unibody model came along. It seems pretty ridiculous to ditch such a high spending demographic like video editors.
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Apr 16, 2012 00:26
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They have to. People won't settle for an i7 as the top of the line when you can have dual hex or quad Xeons
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Apr 16, 2012 01:00
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:Last I read, dual-core Ivy Bridge parts aren't expected to launch until summer. That's the Mini and the Air. I've decided I want to get a mac mini (it'd be my first mac) but I'm waiting on the hardware update, and certain features that are in mountain lion. I have some questions though. I will most likely have the mac mini in an HTPC style setup. Would the apple wireless keyboard and the magic trackpad be recommended for this use? Or are there better options? If anyone uses the mac mini server does it hold up well with all processors at 100% for a month at a time?
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Apr 16, 2012 01:08
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Yes a wiireless keyboard and trackpad will most likely be required. If you have an iPhone or iPad you can use your phone/pad via VNC screen sharing to access as well. Finally, if you are going to burn 100% of the CPUs most of the time, just get AppleCare for your mini (like $100) and you'll be covered for 3 years of ape poo poo CPU usage, in case a core does burn out or something. FlashBangBob fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 02:21
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MOLLUSC posted:I'm hoping they'll surprise us with a new Pro, a bit like when everyone thought the Mini was going to be discontinued but then the nice aluminium unibody model came along. It seems pretty ridiculous to ditch such a high spending demographic like video editors. quote:It was an interesting meeting. Apple clearly wants it known that FCP X should be considered a professional application, that development is on-going, and that they are listening to comments from users. Devian666 posted:I've decided I want to get a mac mini (it'd be my first mac) but I'm waiting on the hardware update, and certain features that are in mountain lion. I have some questions though. Not sure about running full tilt all the time, I'd do a test run and monitor the temperature first. I've run mine pretty long doing encoding but not a month straight. Main concern would be ambient temp and airflow, like you don't want it to just recirculate the hot air it's spewing out. Another concern (particularly as a HTPC) is just that it'd be loud. Hell one of the main reasons I'd love a big mini (new cube!) is just to get a quieter cooling setup out of it. Edit: yeah AppleCare to be safe is probably the best idea. japtor fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 16, 2012 |
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Apr 16, 2012 02:22
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FlashBangBob posted:Finally, if you are going to burn 100% of the CPUs most of the time, just get AppleCare for your mini (like $60) and you'll be covered for 3 years of ape poo poo CPU usage, in case a core does burn out or something. Thanks for the kb mouse advice guys. The servers are a separate item from what I want to do at home. The plan is to test software I use at work. Then I may use 3 or 4 mini servers for number crunching work. The electrical engineers at work will get upset with me if I use too much power or output too much heat. That's primarily because I don't want to spend money on more UPS, cooling or modifying the switchboard so I'm stuck with a power/heat profile that I need to stay inside. It sounds like the fans are noisy on full load but that's not a big deal as it can't be any worse than my dual socket server in the back room.
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Apr 16, 2012 02:29
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Cross posting fromt he monitor thread... I have a couple of adapter in my MBP 2011 to output HDMI and it works fine. If I add a HDMI to DVI adapter it doesn't detect the monitor. 27" Korean IPS. Is this an active / passive dvi issue? Isn't all HDMI "active"? I just want to use my new monitor at full res on my MBP but the mini DP to DVI I bought is not active. Are the official ones active. Whatever the gently caress that means.
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Apr 16, 2012 11:50
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For a 27" monitor you need a MDP to Dual-Link DVI adaptor, all of which are active. Plain old DVI or HDMI maxes out at 1920x1200.
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Apr 16, 2012 12:10
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~Coxy posted:For a 27" monitor you need a MDP to Dual-Link DVI adaptor, all of which are active. Cool thanks... Will this work? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MDP2DVIS-...#ht_1645wt_1141
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Apr 16, 2012 12:41
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thegasman2000 posted:Cool thanks... Will this work? It needs to support a dual-link DVI connection. Something like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=6904&seq=1&format=1#largeimage Or Apple's version: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB571Z/A edit: I just read that your adaptor supports "Dual-link DVI" but supports display resolutions up to 1920x1200 only.
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Apr 16, 2012 16:25
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