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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Apparently it is actually a bomb's arm. Fanart potential right here. I have no artistic skill, sadly. Thinking Mr Potato Head-style just popping it out.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:26
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The White Dragon posted:I'm sure I've said it before, but green lens flare screen is hands-down THE defining screen of the game for me. I think FF7, that's the very first thing that comes to mind. Then as soon as you crest that hill the camera zooms way out to show the blown-up reactor. The cinematography in this game is strikingly good.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:48
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Kheldarn posted:Orange Fluffy Sheep is a god of Breaking Final Fantasy. He just instinctivly knows how to break any FF title. Is there actually a way to break FF4? That one seemed like it was pretty much on rails as far as character growth and plot.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:52
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Probably just abusing Spider's Silk, which is pretty easy to do.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:55
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Apparently it is actually a bomb's arm. "Your right arm comes off?" 
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Apr 19, 2012 04:57
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KataraniSword posted:Is there actually a way to break FF4? If you can get *Mindflayer on your first trip into the Dark Elf cave, that's a pretty broken game right there.
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Apr 19, 2012 04:59
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The White Dragon posted:If you can get *Mindflayer on your first trip into the Dark Elf cave, that's a pretty broken game right there. Grinding to get something that has a less than .1% chance of dropping seems like a waste of time and not proper "breaking", much like grinding for a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night doesn't break the game more than it already has been. Pelican Dunderhead posted:Probably just abusing Spider's Silk, which is pretty easy to do. Care to explain?
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Apr 19, 2012 05:04
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KataraniSword posted:Grinding to get something that has a less than .1% chance of dropping seems like a waste of time and not proper "breaking", much like grinding for a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night doesn't break the game more than it already has been. I think it's an item that casts stop on the enemy, not sure though. I don't know how many bosses are affected by it, but I imagine it trivializes random encounters. FFIV also has an ATB system where spells all take a certain amount of time to cast. Items that cast spells are all quite a bit faster, which is also nice.
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Apr 19, 2012 05:19
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Nope, Spider's Silk casts Slow. Slow is amazingly effective in FFIV. It affects almost everything, works wonderfully, and I'm fairly sure it stacks. Throw a couple Spider's Silk at almost anything, and you can pound away at it fairly safely for a good long while.
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Apr 19, 2012 05:30
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It does stack; just one level of Slow is a minor difference, but it adds up fast as it stacks. And you want spider's silk because most of the time you'll only have one caster who can learn Slow, but anybody can use items.
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Apr 19, 2012 05:38
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KataraniSword posted:Is there actually a way to break FF4? That one seemed like it was pretty much on rails as far as character growth and plot. Killing off Tellah, Porom, and Palom as soon as Cecil class changes and spending half an hour or so doing solo grinding up on Mount Ordeals. It's relatively easy to boost him up into the high 30s. From that point on the only people whose levels are fixed when they join are Cid and Edge. Everyone else joins at a level relative to Cecil, making Yang into an unholy engine of destruction and returning Rosa and Rydia with high level spells.
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Apr 19, 2012 05:45
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The reason slow is so effective in FF4 is because FF4 straddled a transition in the series. Previous games, which were turn-based, modeled speed like D&D by giving characters multiple attacks per turn and adding up the damage. Later games just modeled speed by the ATB bar. FF4 actually does both at the same time. So not only does slow slow down the rate at which enemies get turns, it severely hampers their damage output on each turn. And yeah, it stacks.
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Apr 19, 2012 05:57
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KataraniSword posted:Grinding to get something that has a less than .1% chance of dropping seems like a waste of time and not proper "breaking", much like grinding for a Crissaegrim in Symphony of the Night doesn't break the game more than it already has been. I consider this legit in a game with limited options like FF4. Breaking SO2 involves a lot of grinding too, but it's battles combined with rate-of-success chance rather than drop chance.
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Apr 19, 2012 06:10
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George posted:FF7 doesn't give partial EXP, so if you kill one side and run you're off the hook. Okay, I did not know you could kill one side and bail. But what about side attacks then? According to the wiki, it's impossible to run from those. OFC, do you reload if that happens or is there a way to get out without EXP? Edit: Oh, and if I haven't said so already, this is a crazy amazing LP and I also love the low level stuff.
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Apr 19, 2012 10:45
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I'm not entirely clear on the point of a "low level" run if that level still ends up in the 20's/30's. Finishing a game at level one, or even level five is impressive. Level 25? Just a bit of unnecessary hassle.
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Apr 19, 2012 13:03
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Xander77 posted:I'm not entirely clear on the point of a "low level" run if that level still ends up in the 20's/30's. Finishing a game at level one, or even level five is impressive. Level 25? Just a bit of unnecessary hassle. Hence why I'm keeping Taft at level 7. I might have to make her do exciting things.
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Apr 19, 2012 13:11
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Hence why I'm keeping Taft at level 7. I might have to make her do exciting things.
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Apr 19, 2012 13:20
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I doubt it's even possible to do that in FF7 given how many mandatory fights there are ingame, though. What he is doing is still impressive. I mean, he's running away from every non-mandatory fight in the game. How do you get less experience than that? Running away from bosses? Finding a way to reduce your level?
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Apr 19, 2012 13:23
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Xander77 posted:Let's take a look at the Chrono Trigger LP for comparison purposes. "Main character stays at level 1, nobody else goes above level 10" is impressive. "Everyone is at level 20+, except for one character who is level 7 and who is going to kill some bosses through mechanics abuse"... really isn't. That's impossible in FFVII since tyou get EXP from bosses and the only way to prevent that is to have characters in your party dead since the characters not in your party also get EXP. And he did a level one run of FFIX in White Dragons FFIX thread, so if you need single numbers to be impressed you could always look at that. Edit: vv Well, you still did it, it was still impressive and the tidbits between the updates was enough to let us normal people have a look at the crazy of it. vv Man with Hat fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 13:25
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Man with Hat posted:That's impossible in FFVII since tyou get EXP from bosses and the only way to prevent that is to have characters in your party dead since the characters not in your party also get EXP. I did that on the actual PS2 so I posted about it rather than giving actual updates. If you want an image of a level 1 run in FFIX, imagine Stop missing a Type A - forever.
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Apr 19, 2012 13:27
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Slow breaks FF4 apart, and Spider's Silk is the best item in the game (and in The After Years). Stop is also wonderful. FF4 has a screwy ATB to begin with, so time manipulation does crazy-awesome things. Other than that, there's not really a good way to break apart FF4 from what I've seen. Most bosses rely on gimmicks like Reflect, and those who don't simply get beat down by the party. I guess you could abuse item dupe glitches and the like. But Slow is so overpowered that it alone is rather gamebreaking. Break's also surprisingly powerful, though you get it far too late in the original game for it to be that useful.
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Apr 19, 2012 13:59
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Mega64 posted:Slow breaks FF4 apart, and Spider's Silk is the best item in the game (and in The After Years). Stop is also wonderful. FF4 has a screwy ATB to begin with, so time manipulation does crazy-awesome things. If anyone knows of a good way to break FFXIII I'd like to hear that as well. I couldn't really find anything in particular, although I hear there's some ways you can exploit Snow's insanely swift casting animation somehow. And the "backflip Lightning 800 meters away from the action, rendering her invincible" glitch, but that one isn't actually very useful.
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Apr 19, 2012 14:11
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Xander77 posted:Let's take a look at the Chrono Trigger LP for comparison purposes. "Main character stays at level 1, nobody else goes above level 10" is impressive. "Everyone is at level 20+, except for one character who is level 7 and who is going to kill some bosses through mechanics abuse"... really isn't. There's a Chrono Trigger Low Level Let's Play out there? Man, I've been as dumb as Fry missing that. There goes my only idea for a unique let's play. The situation in Chrono Trigger is entirely different from FF7. In Chrono Trigger I should think there are far fewer mandatory battles (around 30 or so), for one thing, and about halfway through the game you gain access to the Wallet accessory, which means you no longer earn any experience (which means you don't really have to skip any optional content) For example, there is only one fight in the entire game where it is required for Crono to earn any experience, so keeping him at level 1 is fairly easy. A low level game is about getting through the game at as low a level as possible and the numbers there are more to do with the game than the player, it still requires a good knowledge of the game in order to pull off both. Being low level in Chrono Trigger isn't too much of a hindrance anyway. Chrono's ultimate weapon is so ridiculous he'll still be one of your top damage dealers even at level one.
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Apr 19, 2012 14:55
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Here's the CT thread that was mentioned, by Quovak: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3433363
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Apr 19, 2012 15:14
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I think we're having trouble communicating. "It's impossible to do a true low level run of FF7" is a re-statement of my point, not an objection to it.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:29
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Xander77 posted:I think we're having trouble communicating. "It's impossible to do a true low level run of FF7" is a re-statement of my point, not an objection to it. The problem is your stance seems to be "if you can't finish in the single digits, why bother?" Where as everyone else is looking at it as a "finishing as low as possible is impressive" thing and thus there's disagreement. I actually started in your camp with OFS's run, but once it was explained that he was going as low as was actually possible I shifted into more of a "oh, well that's cool then" stance.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:33
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It's getting all the way through the game without anything becoming more powerful than it is forced to be. Why do you have such a problem with the fact that the numbers aren't as low as they can stay in completely different games?
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Apr 19, 2012 21:37
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The point is being as low level as the game will allow using conventional means (ie, not using a trainer or anything). If you like your low level runs to be low level, that's completely reasonable, but you can't really complain that a low level FF7 run isn't low level enough when it's not possible get any lower level.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:38
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Wulfolme posted:It's getting all the way through the game without anything becoming more powerful than it is forced to be. Why do you have such a problem with the fact that the numbers aren't as low as they can stay in completely different games? with completely different and entirely arbitrary number systems? Seriously, Xander77, apples and oranges.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:41
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I think his complaint is that I'm still getting enough levels that things won't be super-crazy and my characters will have real HP scores. That's half the reason why I'm doing this, because I spent four hours on the first Type A fight just hoping the Needle Fork would finally loving petrify. And about 5 more on the escape from Alexandria in disc 2 due to the numerous battles between save points. I'd like a challenge to not be ramming my head against the RNG for hours at points, you know?
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Apr 19, 2012 21:45
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:The problem is your stance seems to be "if you can't finish in the single digits, why bother?" Where as everyone else is looking at it as a "finishing as low as possible is impressive" thing and thus there's disagreement. I think we're looking for different things in low level runs. I'm interested in seeing a protagonist/party that is utterly overmatched from the point of view of the average gamer, triumphing through sheer skill as well clever use and abuse of the games systems. "Things are slightly harder than they would be if I took time to grind" isn't quite the same. It's like the difference between a challenge run of Deus Ex that goes ghost, no weapons, no takedowns, no items, no augmentations, and a challenge run that goes no heavy weapons, no combat augments (shut up, I'm running on 2 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours and my analogies suck). Sure, it's a bit of a hassle, but it's not impressive as such. You don't look at it and go "wow, I could never do that". I could do a no-grind run of FF7. I'm pretty sure my last palythrough ended in the low 30's, and OFS's playthrough is expected to end fairly near that.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:02
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If it makes you feel any better, Xander, it won't be until the final dungeon I can get any real AP. What little I'm getting I'm putting towards my HP Pluses.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:04
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Xander77 posted:Eh, derails of derails. When you put it that way, your complaint is completely valid. Your original complaint was purely based on character level not being low enough, and I think that is what irked some people. Levels are arbitrary. Mechanically speaking, what OFS is doing is identical in concept to a level 1 run of FF9, for example. In both cases the goal is to get as little experience as the game will possibly allow. But to your complaint, I agree that a low level run of FF9 is far more difficult and more impressive than a low level run of FF7. Still fun to watch though.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:27
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Xander77 posted:Let's take a look at the Chrono Trigger LP for comparison purposes. "Main character stays at level 1, nobody else goes above level 10" is impressive. "Everyone is at level 20+, except for one character who is level 7 and who is going to kill some bosses through mechanics abuse"... really isn't. What level does an average run of Chrono Trigger end at? Like 30? FF7 you're probably going to hit 50 or 60. The scale is just totally different. It's like saying the Chrono Trigger run is more impressive because he's hitting for 100 damage instead of FF7's 1000.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:31
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George posted:What level does an average run of Chrono Trigger end at? Like 30? FF7 you're probably going to hit 50 or 60. The scale is just totally different. It's like saying the Chrono Trigger run is more impressive because he's hitting for 100 damage instead of FF7's 1000. Mid to high 40's, maybe low 50's, if you don't skip anything. Since the endgame is a bunch of technically optional (but definitely helpful) sidequests, it'll vary depending on how many of those you do. Enemies in the Black Omen have levels ranging in the 40's.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:46
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Vil posted:Mid to high 40's, maybe low 50's, if you don't skip anything. Since the endgame is a bunch of technically optional (but definitely helpful) sidequests, it'll vary depending on how many of those you do. Enemies in the Black Omen have levels ranging in the 40's. You can run in CT and most encounters are avoidable if you know how to avoid them.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:03
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Xander77 posted:Let's take a look at the Chrono Trigger LP for comparison purposes. "Main character stays at level 1, nobody else goes above level 10" is impressive. "Everyone is at level 20+, except for one character who is level 7 and who is going to kill some bosses through mechanics abuse"... really isn't. People do things because they have fun doing things. OFS is doing it because we're also having fun with him doing it. This derail is not fun.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:21
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:You can run in CT and most encounters are avoidable if you know how to avoid them. Yeah, but refer to the post I was quoting: I was talking an average run - bump into most things, kill what you bump into. If you use tactics like that to try to avoid experience, you'd end up with considerably less, hence Quovak's LP.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:56
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It seems that someone turned the Chocobo (In)Breeding VGCats comic into a video.
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Apr 20, 2012 05:19
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I've been reading the updates to catch up, but the pictures stopped loading for me today. Is anyone else having trouble with the images? The update I am on is "Creepy Korean Horror Movie Hour."
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Apr 21, 2012 05:14
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