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Just ate at a mad awesome Korean place in a strip mall in Pleasanton. Son sat us, mom cooked and waited on us, dad was doing dishes. The chee was well kimmed.
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Apr 21, 2012 05:15
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i shoot friendlies posted:So I just got one of these 195F seems pretty low for pellicle formation. Also after a certain point being under smoke doesn't matter anymore. 22 hours is well beyond that point.
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Apr 21, 2012 06:36
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GrAviTy84 posted:195F seems pretty low for pellicle formation. Also after a certain point being under smoke doesn't matter anymore. 22 hours is well beyond that point. err the pellicle forms before you smoke something, in the fridge. (or at room temperature I guess)
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Apr 21, 2012 07:39
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mindphlux posted:err I thought so too but I just read the chapter on smoking in modernist cuisine and it said otherwise. I might have misread. There's a lot of info in that book and I may just be overwhelmed. I get how you can get that pellicle from drying off a wet surface, I don't get how you get that from a surface that is dry from liberal dry rub. Nevertheless I recall 225F being the sweet spot and the there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-smoke thing.
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Apr 21, 2012 08:37
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GrAviTy84 posted:I thought so too but I just read the chapter on smoking in modernist cuisine and it said otherwise. I might have misread. There's a lot of info in that book and I may just be overwhelmed. I get how you can get that pellicle from drying off a wet surface, I don't get how you get that from a surface that is dry from liberal dry rub. Nevertheless I recall 225F being the sweet spot and the there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-smoke thing. 225 is too high for most meats. This is not a book, but rather the practical experience of the old southern redneck who opened my eyes to proper pork cooking. Anything above 210 is going to cause the liquid in the meat to boil and steam, and that is very bad for tenderness and juiciness. According to him, you never want the meat to get that hot. He cooked pork butts for a living, and had been doing that for 50 years. He never read a book on it, but he was an pork artist. He was right. As I have experimented, setting the oven so it goes over 210 for a significant period of time just murders the texture. After doing about 100-150 of these, I have found the sweet spot to be 195 for 24 hours. That makes the best pork I (or anyone else who has eaten it) has ever had. That temp and time completely render the fat, so that is melts through the meat. The parts that were solid fat get a "puffy" texture that is extraordinary. The outside gets dark and crispy. You do not even need spice, as the rich "porky" flavor becomes so strong. The only difference this time is I will be adding a couple hours of smoke to the process. i shoot friendlies fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 12:21
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i shoot friendlies posted:This is the difference between book knowledge and experience. The fact that you're going by time instead of internal temperature means that you really don't know which is happening, you're just guessing. If you want to know for sure, put a probe in the thing. Watch the temperature. It'll claw its way up good and slow, and then hit a point at which the temperature stalls. This is where all that collagen is being converted. The temperature is stalling because the process is endothermic. It is also (one of the reasons) why you absolutely aren't in any danger of boiling the interior of your roast or steaming it or whatever the hell you're fantasy role-playing steampunk adventure horseshit you're imagining is going on in there. And a good thing, too---because if it was, the thing would literally explode. And by `literally', I don't mean `metaphorically', I mean that poo poo would blow the gently caress up. Anyway, after the temperature stalls for awhile, it'll start climbing again. As soon as that happens, that's when you want to pull the meat and let it rest. Why? Because that's when you know essentially all of the collagen (not fat, as you say---pork fat renders at somewhere around 90 F, plus or minus a few depending on what part of the pig the fat came from) is now gelatine. I mean you can do it other ways and invoke all the down home country wisdom you want to justify it, but that's just loving voodoo and wishful thinking. You can argue with me, but you can't argue with thermofuckingdynamics.
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Apr 21, 2012 12:44
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I love Real Food Science Talk. 
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Apr 21, 2012 13:21
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Any of you guys have a discount code for the sous vide demi? Need to get one as a wedding gift.
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Apr 21, 2012 13:51
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Remember guys, this is coming from the dude that wanted to puddle machine a whole loin and kill his family
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Apr 21, 2012 17:04
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i shoot friendlies posted:225 is too high for most meats. This is not a book, but rather the practical experience of the old southern redneck who opened my eyes to proper pork cooking. Anything above 210 is going to cause the liquid in the meat to boil and steam, and that is very bad for tenderness and juiciness. According to him, you never want the meat to get that hot. He cooked pork butts for a living, and had been doing that for 50 years. He never read a book on it, but he was an pork artist. Just out of curiosity, where do you think the information in books come from? Going from oven to smoker isn't a one to one mapping. There are new variables not limited to smoke. Did you wrap in the oven? That'll buy you some moisture insurance, but you can't do that in a smoker because it would defeat the purpose of smoking. Like I said, there is a point when adding smoke doesn't do anything anymore. Like SubG said, the best way is to use a thermometer. Also this: 
GrAviTy84 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Apr 21, 2012 |
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Apr 21, 2012 17:25
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I made hot cross buns today, because my wife was craving them. They came out very well, although since I do a lot of bread baking that shouldn't have been too much of a surprise. They are quite a faff, though: the usual dough making, proving, shaping, proving, etc, plus a glaze before and after baking, and the bloody crosses. If I am going to that much effort I'd rather try and improve my cinnamon rolls.
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Apr 21, 2012 19:46
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GrAviTy84 posted:Also this: This is sorta raw pedantry, but I'm not trying to poo poo on his work; I think it's great empirical work. My point is that identifying one of the mechanisms through which a complex, porous, hygroscopic media like meat regulates heat during cooking isn't really an explanation in the sense the graph and accompanying text seems to suggest. As I said, my suggesting that thermal denaturation of collagen is `the' reason is similarly problematically reductive. I don't own a copy of Modernist Cuisine (from which I assume the quoted page is excerpted. Does he elsewhere explain propose an explanation as to why the plateau is indicative of doneness? The fact that it is the point at which you have exhausted the limits of evaporative cooling does not, on the face of it, seem to make a lot of sense for this purpose. It works as an explanation about why you'd expect a piece of meat to be dried to unpalatability if you cooked beyond that point, but it doesn't follow (by any logic I can see) that cooking right up to the point beyond which unpalatability lies should work as a strategy for insuring palatability.
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Apr 21, 2012 21:42
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SubG posted:GRRRR I am so angry! Look at me I am angry! Thermodynamics!!!!! Let me respond with the following:      Gee, I did not pay attention in physics. It looks so good but because I did not probe it and pay attention in physics, it probably will taste lousy. Oh well. You know, if only we have a PhD in physics to really break this down for us... i shoot friendlies fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Apr 22, 2012 |
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Apr 22, 2012 00:17
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i shoot friendlies posted:Let me respond with the following: I'm sure it tastes fine, tasty pulled pork is not hard to make at all. A perfect pulled pork OTOH is. For 22 hours under smoke, that is quite possibly the weakest pork shoulder crust I've ever seen come out of a smoker and has absolutely no smoke ring. You might as well have added liquid smoke to a foil wrapped oven shoulder. Anyway, I was just trying to help, duder. No need to be a dickwad. Enjoy your pork that took you 22 hrs to make that you could've made in 3.5. Edit: way to remove you quoting me after I respond 
GrAviTy84 fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Apr 22, 2012 |
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Apr 22, 2012 00:37
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GrAviTy84 posted:Anyway, I was just trying to help, duder. I really was not responding to you, I was responding to SubG's unprovoked and angry rant.
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Apr 22, 2012 00:39
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i shoot friendlies posted:I really was not responding to you, I was responding to SubG's unprovoked and angry rant. You argue like a Creationist.
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Apr 22, 2012 00:43
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GrAviTy84 posted:Edit: way to remove you quoting me after I respond It was before because I thought better of it. Look at the time stamps. You responded at 00:37, my edit was 00:36. You had not been a jerk so I thought it was jerky to be jerky to you. Turns out I was right. SubG's response, the one that begins "Horseshit." and also includes the gems, "It is also (one of the reasons) why you absolutely aren't in any danger of boiling the interior of your roast or steaming it or whatever the hell you're fantasy role-playing steampunk adventure horseshit you're imagining" and ends with the charming, "I mean you can do it other ways and invoke all the down home country wisdom you want to justify it, but that's just loving voodoo and wishful thinking. You can argue with me, but you can't argue with thermofuckingdynamics." was what elicited my response. I mean, I posted about an old southern dude who had been cooking pork for 50 years giving me his philosophy on pork. SubG's response was borderline psychotic, like he took it as personal insult that I had posted some old man's opinion about pork without discussing the intricacies of the physics of pork cookery. What a nut.
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Apr 22, 2012 00:58
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i shoot friendlies posted:I mean, I posted about an old southern dude who had been cooking pork for 50 years giving me his philosophy on pork. SubG's response was borderline psychotic, like he took it as personal insult that I had posted some old man's opinion about pork without discussing the intricacies of the physics of pork cookery. 1)Cooking is science. 2)SubG knows both science and good food. 3)Your pork looks like it just came out of a lukewarm shower.
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Apr 22, 2012 02:01
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Time for another cooking duel?
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Apr 22, 2012 03:32
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Steve Yun posted:Time for another cooking duel? No. It'd be too boring.
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Apr 22, 2012 03:37
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Gladiator battle with forks, then
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Apr 22, 2012 04:36
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Where is the smoke ring on that smoked pork? Anyway a bad rear end new Korean French fusion place just opened around here and it rules. It's called Komo Komo and it is tasty as hell and their Kimchee was A)the spiciest I've ever had and B) the best I've ever had. I think I'm gonna try and get in there and stage for a month.
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Apr 22, 2012 07:13
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therattle posted:I made hot cross buns today, because my wife was craving them. They came out very well, although since I do a lot of bread baking that shouldn't have been too much of a surprise. They are quite a faff, though: the usual dough making, proving, shaping, proving, etc, plus a glaze before and after baking, and the bloody crosses. If I am going to that much effort I'd rather try and improve my cinnamon rolls. I'm ognoring the pork-debacle 2012, and I am going to inquire about this instead... What is a hot cross bun? Sounds like a pastry of some sorts, google leads me to something that looks a bit like lauterbrötchen (spelling may be off), is lye a part of the prep? I wanna try making those buns! Could you post a picture? Added bonus if there is a smokering!
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Apr 22, 2012 07:24
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For Satan, mand, there's even a Wikipedia article about them.
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Apr 22, 2012 08:12
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Happy Hat posted:I'm ognoring the pork-debacle 2012, and I am going to inquire about this instead... What is a hot cross bun? I have never heard of using lye to make hot cross buns but I suppose you could do a lye wash if you wanted to make them bagel-y for some reason. They are a sweet/spicy soft yeast bun with a cross cut into the top. Some people use icing to draw the X while others cut it into the bun before baking. I have no idea which is more historically accurate but I personally don't like the icing ones.
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Apr 22, 2012 08:22
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Sjurygg posted:For Satan, mand, there's even a Wikipedia article about them. So there is.. My google-fu is becomming weak! Men for satan, røgringe? Helt ærligt?
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Apr 22, 2012 08:46
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Happy Hat posted:I'm ognoring the pork-debacle 2012, and I am going to inquire about this instead... What is a hot cross bun? Here is the recipe I used, together with a bit of history and testing of various techniques. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/apr/21/cook-perfect-hot-cross-buns Here is one of mine 
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Apr 22, 2012 10:12
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i shoot friendlies posted:It was before because I thought better of it. Look at the time stamps. You responded at 00:37, my edit was 00:36. It's hard to quantify how lovely your opinions are, over time, but I'd wager that the mean average is terrible. The basis of your opinions are mostly "that one guy" and "no one died". I'd report you to CPS if I knew where you lived. In the off-chance that the Something Awful staff actually does something: Thank you, but this thread has already been reported recently!
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Apr 22, 2012 10:24
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Sweat Poteto and I ate a Thai foods in London at Esarn Kheaw: Apps: http://i.imgur.com/1g8CU.jpg Mains: http://i.imgur.com/6apxL.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eyRRw.jpg Dessert: http://i.imgur.com/PFtv9.jpg Lovely place, nice staff, excellent flavours. It was an excellent evening! Thanks Poteto for introducing me to the restaurant!
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Apr 22, 2012 11:43
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Yayayayaayaayayayyayayayaya lease signing this week.
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Apr 22, 2012 13:13
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i shoot friendlies posted:SubG's response was borderline psychotic, like he took it as personal insult that I had posted some old man's opinion about pork without discussing the intricacies of the physics of pork cookery. But I'll just point out that no, in fact you were discussing the intricacies of the physics of pork cookery. You were just thoroughly wrong about them. If you manage to produce something that you're willing to eat despite relying on voodoo and wishful thinking instead of shameful `book knowledge' (which is to say, knowledge) more power to ya I guess.
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Apr 22, 2012 13:57
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Steakandchips posted:Lovely place, nice staff, excellent flavours. It was an excellent evening! Thanks Poteto for introducing me to the restaurant! Ya pretty good. He misunderstood the order and delivered egg fried rice instead of Son-in-law eggs but put it right fairly quickly and the dessert was perfect. No prawn crackers hahah
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Apr 22, 2012 14:08
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SubG posted:Borderline psychotic? Man, now you're hurting my feelings. I think we have a good working relationship here. I post, and you post borderline psychotic responses. It seems to work. This is the post that really stood out, though: SYFY HYPHY posted:I'd report you to CPS if I knew where you lived. In the off-chance that the Something Awful staff actually does something: What?? Where I am, CPS means "Child Protective Services". Are you saying you would try to get my children taken away because of my opinions on cooking? I take back everything I said about SubG. This is the most mentally unbalanced post in this whole discussion. I cannot even imagine what CPS would have to do with this. What is the thought process behind this? Is it something like, "I will tell on you to SA, and if they won't do anything I will tell on you to the government." How would this conversation go?
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Apr 22, 2012 20:08
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i shoot friendlies posted:I think we have a good working relationship here. I post, and you post borderline psychotic responses. It seems to work. Sigh. Trolls trolling trolls.
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Apr 22, 2012 20:59
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mediaphage posted:Sigh. Trolls trolling trolls.
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Apr 22, 2012 21:12
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i shoot friendlies posted:I think we have a good working relationship here. I post, and you post borderline psychotic responses. It seems to work. We haven't forgotten about that time you tried to poison your family by puddling a whole beef tenderloin.
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Apr 22, 2012 22:09
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i shoot friendlies posted:Let me respond with the following: I love how this entire post is dripping with  and then posts some mediocre-at-best photos as if they are supposed to blow everyone away with their sheer awesomeness. Seriously did you even smoke that shoulder? It looks like you cooked it in an oven for about 5 hours. I don't see any smoke ring or bark.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:22
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Something looks really off about the meat itself, too. If someone served me that, I would not eat it, for fear of food poisoning.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:33
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Lyssavirus posted:Something looks really off about the meat itself, too. If someone served me that, I would not eat it, for fear of food poisoning. I thought so too, but maybe it's the pictures. It looks really greasy.
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Apr 23, 2012 00:41
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Yaltabaoth posted:I thought so too, but maybe it's the pictures. It looks really greasy.  book knowledge talking.
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Apr 23, 2012 01:15
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