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optikalus posted:It's the megasas driver being too verbose. I don't think those are actually errors. In that case it's possible our customer pasted us the wrong bit of the log - they're saying that discs are actually dropping out of arrays. On these, they set them up as individual RAID 0 per disc because the 9260 doesn't support JBOD exporting by default. They then use these in linux softraid.
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Apr 4, 2012 13:47
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Anjow posted:In that case it's possible our customer pasted us the wrong bit of the log - they're saying that discs are actually dropping out of arrays. On these, they set them up as individual RAID 0 per disc because the 9260 doesn't support JBOD exporting by default. They then use these in linux softraid. SCSI resets aren't in themselves very useful for troubleshooting. They can mean bad things are happening like errors on the bus or a specific device, but they are also used in some instances where there are no errors. I'd call your hardware vendor and engage their support if you're seeing issues.
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Apr 4, 2012 17:50
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Anyone heard of XtremIO?
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Apr 4, 2012 20:37
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How does a PS4100E-High Capacity-24TB compare to a NetApp 2240 or a Nimble CS220? Do they have good management software and how is their snapshot ability compared to NetApp and Nimble? I noticed that the quick ship price for the PS4100E is $25k, while Nimble and NetApp are still hovering around $34k. I'm starting to be more forceful with NetApp, since so far they haven't budged on their price and included the complete software bundle. I like what I saw from their equipment, but so far I haven't seen much effort from them to accomodate us.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:09
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Do you mean an Equallogic PS4100E? If so, I have experience with their arrays and management software, but not with NetApp or Nimble. I will say that the E means it is using SATA (or 7.2k SAS, whatever you want to call it). Just make sure you are getting enough IOPS. On the management side, I love their software. It really could not be any easier to use. Their arrays are entirely "virtual storage." You basically say, I want X amount of disks in RAID50 and Y amount in RAID10, or I want all disks in RAID10, and it does the rest. When you make a LUN it is basically like making a partition. The array does all the work and will automatically balance it all in the best way it can. SANHQ is software that comes with, just like everything else Equallogic, and allows for a very easy and granular look at what is going on. I don't know about NetApp or Nimble, but it completely blows EMC's Unisphere Analyzer out of the water. Snapshots and replication are extremely easy to set up. MPIO is also very easy. I absolutely loved my Equallogic array. The only issue was you had to buy the unit completely filled, and if you wanted to add more IOPS or Storage you had to add a whole new array. In my company that is difficult because they would just put it off over and over again. With my VNX I can say "this new project requires X space and Y IOPs, we need to add Z disks." You cannot get that granular with Equallogic. If you do not have a dedicated storage admin or time to mess around with your SAN all day, I cannot recommend Equallogic enough.
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Apr 4, 2012 22:58
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Internet Explorer posted:Do you mean an Equallogic PS4100E? I think it is the PS4100E. That's good to know. As far as how their snap shots work, are you able to browse them and recover individual files or do you need to mount the snapshot in order to retrieve the file? With NetApp standing pat on pricing at the moment, I need to start seriously considering some other options. I'd like NetApp to work out, but they need to start making some concessions on their end to make it a more fair deal. I hate getting stuck doing negotiations, but with a small IT department, I guess that's the reality of the situation. It's sad when getting back to programming and designing databases sounds so refreshing right now.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:26
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Yeah, I was in the same situation when we researched SANs the past 2 rounds of replacements. It was months of researching and getting quotes and I had tons of other stuff to do. The first time we stuck with Equallogic and bought 2 new units, this last time we went with EMC and I regret it quite a bit. Unless something changed very recently, you need to mount the snapshot on a server and recover the file. I think this is the same with anything serving up iSCSI. I'm not sure, but I think you only see that when you are doing NAS functions from the SAN. Equallogic does have a NAS box that goes on top of their block stuff, but I have no experience with that. When we were negotiating with Equallogic, NetApp, and LeftHand 3 years ago or so, NetApp was the highest by far and they wouldn't budge at all.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:48
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Aniki posted:I think it is the PS4100E. That's good to know. As far as how their snap shots work, are you able to browse them and recover individual files or do you need to mount the snapshot in order to retrieve the file? With NetApp standing pat on pricing at the moment, I need to start seriously considering some other options. I'd like NetApp to work out, but they need to start making some concessions on their end to make it a more fair deal. I hate getting stuck doing negotiations, but with a small IT department, I guess that's the reality of the situation. It's sad when getting back to programming and designing databases sounds so refreshing right now. With our PX4000X we have to mount set the snapshot to online, mount it, do what we want with it, un mount, set to offline. This is firmware v5.0.7 and I don't see anything in the changelog that makes this process change
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Apr 4, 2012 23:49
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Nebulis01 posted:With our PX4000X we have to mount set the snapshot to online, mount it, do what we want with it, un mount, set to offline. This is firmware v5.0.7 and I don't see anything in the changelog that makes this process change This will always be the case with snapshots on LUNs. It had to be mounted to a host that understands the filesystem on the lun snapshot. To the array its just a bunch of bloks in a container. NetApp can expose files from a snapshot directly when it's an nfs or CIFS share because those are WAFL files.
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Apr 4, 2012 23:55
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NippleFloss posted:This will always be the case with snapshots on LUNs. It had to be mounted to a host that understands the filesystem on the lun snapshot. To the array its just a bunch of bloks in a container. Well that's pretty sweet, the more you know 
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Apr 5, 2012 00:29
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It looks like NetApp and CDW are starting to provide some solutions on price. It looks like they included a $5,000 installation fee, which I'll see if they can waive or heavily discount, otherwise I don't see why we couldn't set it up ourselves. They also mentioned including some training vouchers, so I assume that we could use those or their general support for any questions during the setup. That would bring us down from $34k to $29k and if we hold off on some virtualization specific software, which we probably aren't going to need right away, then that would bring it down to $26k. That being said, I would like to just get all of the software included, but I need to wait and see how much they budge.
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Apr 5, 2012 01:17
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Aniki posted:It looks like NetApp and CDW are starting to provide some solutions on price. It looks like they included a $5,000 installation fee, which I'll see if they can waive or heavily discount, otherwise I don't see why we couldn't set it up ourselves. They also mentioned including some training vouchers, so I assume that we could use those or their general support for any questions during the setup. That would bring us down from $34k to $29k and if we hold off on some virtualization specific software, which we probably aren't going to need right away, then that would bring it down to $26k. That being said, I would like to just get all of the software included, but I need to wait and see how much they budge. If you aren't in a time crunch setting the filer up yourself is a great way to learn and it's really not that hard. My first NetApp experience was setting up a new cluster (and hosing it during setup, and starting over). If you elect to go that route and you hit any issues or have any questions I'd be happy to help. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Apr 5, 2012 |
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Apr 5, 2012 01:35
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Internet Explorer posted:Do you mean an Equallogic PS4100E? I can second all this, EQL's stack is my new measurement stick ever since I bought our PS6510E.
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Apr 5, 2012 02:11
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Aniki posted:It looks like NetApp and CDW are starting to provide some solutions on price. It looks like they included a $5,000 installation fee, which I'll see if they can waive or heavily discount, otherwise I don't see why we couldn't set it up ourselves. They also mentioned including some training vouchers, so I assume that we could use those or their general support for any questions during the setup. That would bring us down from $34k to $29k and if we hold off on some virtualization specific software, which we probably aren't going to need right away, then that would bring it down to $26k. That being said, I would like to just get all of the software included, but I need to wait and see how much they budge. This is why I hate Netapp, EMC etc, for this BS nickel-and-diming on features - and this is exactly the main reason why I went with EqualLogic last time and I will always go with all-inclusive vendors only: all features are available from day 1, no ripoff prices later, after I already bought into the system.
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Apr 5, 2012 02:15
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szlevi posted:This is why I hate Netapp, EMC etc, for this BS nickel-and-diming on features - and this is exactly the main reason why I went with EqualLogic last time and I will always go with all-inclusive vendors only: all features are available from day 1, no ripoff prices later, after I already bought into the system. All inclusive pricing doesn't make sense when your product range is that broad as you end up heavily penalizing customers who don't use half of what they end up paying for. Equallogic is relatively niche, by comparison, which means they can price things differently.
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Apr 5, 2012 02:51
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NippleFloss posted:NetApp and EMC have arrays that do FC, iSCSI, nfs, CIFS and fcoe, support a lot application integration features, multiple replication types and both scale up and scale out architectures. Well, except everybody is trying to imitate them now, look at VNX pricing... And we both now the same feature on a lower-end product costs a lot less eg Netapp so it's really nothing else but simply raping their customers. Ohh and that 'niche' EqualLogic is actually the #1 iSCSI vendor.
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Apr 5, 2012 03:50
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szlevi posted:Well, except everybody is trying to imitate them now, look at VNX pricing... ISCSI only storage is a niche. And EMC has many offerings other than VNX. It's cool that you're happy with your storage and equallogic is pretty cool from everything I've heard but there's nothing wrong with licensing certain features or bundles of features, at extra cost as long as the cost is reasonable. That revenue pays the teams who develop and maintain those features. It also allows NetApp, for instance, to be cost competitive with vendors who don't match their full feature set.
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Apr 5, 2012 04:09
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NippleFloss posted:ISCSI only storage is a niche.
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Apr 5, 2012 04:19
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Misogynist posted:On the other hand, when IBM makes you buy a dongle to enable RAID-6 support on your PCIe RAID card, well, gently caress you. Yea, there is definitely a happy medium. NetApp has improved a good bit on the licensing front since I was a customer of theirs but they still have a ways to go. My current pet peeve is that flexclone isn't free. That's a WAFL layer feature that has a multitude of uses. It needs to be included on any filer sold. YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Apr 5, 2012 |
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Apr 5, 2012 04:45
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NippleFloss posted:If you aren't in a time crunch setting the filer up yourself is a great way to learn and it's really not that hard. My first NetApp experience was setting up a new cluster (and hosing it during setup, and starting over). I'd appreciate that. Their software seems straight forward enough, so I think it is something that I'm capable of. It will definitely be a different world of data management, but that will be a good change over the fragmented mess that we currently use for storage.
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Apr 5, 2012 09:57
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NippleFloss posted:If you aren't in a time crunch setting the filer up yourself is a great way to learn and it's really not that hard. My first NetApp experience was setting up a new cluster (and hosing it during setup, and starting over). I'd say it's the design that's easier to hose, not so much the implementation.
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Apr 5, 2012 10:02
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szlevi posted:This is why I hate Netapp, EMC etc, for this BS nickel-and-diming on features - and this is exactly the main reason why I went with EqualLogic last time and I will always go with all-inclusive vendors only: all features are available from day 1, no ripoff prices later, after I already bought into the system. Yep that's a big part of why I went with Nimble. The listed feature set is the listed feature set. There are no little stars by anything that link to a footnote saying "Only valid if you purchased some lovely overpriced software addon" Also gently caress replication manager.
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Apr 5, 2012 13:59
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I've read several times that Equallogic aren't #1 in iSCSI because they do everything better than everyone else, they're #1 because it's all-inclusive so you know exactly what you're getting.
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Apr 5, 2012 19:11
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Aniki posted:It looks like NetApp and CDW are starting to provide some solutions on price. It looks like they included a $5,000 installation fee, which I'll see if they can waive or heavily discount, otherwise I don't see why we couldn't set it up ourselves. They also mentioned including some training vouchers, so I assume that we could use those or their general support for any questions during the setup. That would bring us down from $34k to $29k and if we hold off on some virtualization specific software, which we probably aren't going to need right away, then that would bring it down to $26k. That being said, I would like to just get all of the software included, but I need to wait and see how much they budge. I've never touched a NetApp before receiving our 2240-4. It was quick and painless to install. The setup takes care of everything you need to get it online, and then you can use a GUI to configure everything else if you want. I found the docs are pretty clear and easy to follow if you want to do everything through CLI like a boss.
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Apr 5, 2012 19:22
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Bitch Stewie posted:I've read several times that Equallogic aren't #1 in iSCSI because they do everything better than everyone else, they're #1 because it's all-inclusive so you know exactly what you're getting. Well, it's pretty much impossible to do everything better than anyone especially continuously but they are doing the most important things better than anyone else ie the management-monitoring-pricing triumvirate sits on the top of every shopper's checklist.
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Apr 5, 2012 20:23
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There is a pretty big difference in what NetApp and EMC can offer and what Equallogic can offer. But, if you only need the smaller feature set, to me the choice with Equallogic is clear.
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Apr 5, 2012 20:39
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Bitch Stewie posted:I've read several times that Equallogic aren't #1 in iSCSI because they do everything better than everyone else, they're #1 because it's all-inclusive so you know exactly what you're getting. They've got a good product from everything I've seen, but they're also competing in small market. The last numbers I saw had iSCSI as around 15% of the total networked storage market. iSCSI doesn't yet have nearly the penetration that FC or NFS do, especially in the high end. It wasn't even worth charting the iSCSI market 10 years ago. It's growing quickly, but still small, and less competitive. szlevi posted:management-monitoring-pricing If this was really at the top of most customer's lists then EMC wouldn't have more market share than the next 3 storage companies combined, and they wouldn't be growing it quarter after quarter. Equallogic is a good fit for a certain type of business but it's really lacking for many others. Which is why Dell bought Compellant (which uses a traditional licensing model where you pay for the features you want).
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Apr 6, 2012 03:38
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We're most likely going to be getting Compellent for our main server room on campus, but I'm thinking an Equallogic would be pretty good for another department we support, I guess you'd call it a branch office. Unless Compellent offers something redundant in the 15-20 TB range for same amount of money as Equallogic.
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Apr 6, 2012 03:58
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FISHMANPET posted:We're most likely going to be getting Compellent for our main server room on campus, but I'm thinking an Equallogic would be pretty good for another department we support, I guess you'd call it a branch office. Unless Compellent offers something redundant in the 15-20 TB range for same amount of money as Equallogic.
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Apr 6, 2012 06:44
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Compellent is absolutely terrible. We were given a unit due to the amount of business we do with Dell, and it's a pile of junk. Controller crashes that they can't explain, blaming issues on firmware being out of date even when the array says there are no updates (you, literally, have to call to find out if there are updates and to get them to release them to you, but in the meantime if you do "Check for Updates" your array will tell you it is all up to date), Copilot support rebooting the wrong controller when 1 is down and bringing your entire storage down, Copilot support blaming performance issues on using thin-provisioned VMDKs, Copilot support saying a massive performance issue is due to number of disks (we're talking each disk getting like 10 iops, yes 10 not 100). Do never buy.
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Apr 6, 2012 23:56
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I'm hoping someone can help me out with a problem we're having here at work. I'm not a Windows server admin, nor am I a server hardware expert. We have a VTrak e610f enclosure hooked up to a Windows 2008 server by Fibre Channel (LSI7204EP). fcinfo sees the fibre channel card, LSI's fibre channel utility can see and query the enclosure. What's confounding us, however, is VDS. The service is installed, but the MMC/diskraid.exe report that it cannot communicate with it and mentions a hardware provider. I've been searching for a while now and see plenty of mention of iSCSI, but nothing specific about FC. I tried to follow Promises' instructions and installed their PerfectPath software, but it hasn't solved the problem. The drive shows up as one solid block of storage in Disk Management, but we were hoping to be able to divvy up the storage somewhat. Can anybody point me in the right direction? Should I have said VDS Hardware Provider?
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Apr 26, 2012 16:35
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Well, six weeks after requesting a Netapp quote we finally received it on the day we racked our new Equallogic. 
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Apr 26, 2012 17:26
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Captain Capacitor posted:I'm hoping someone can help me out with a problem we're having here at work. I'm not a Windows server admin, nor am I a server hardware expert.
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Apr 26, 2012 21:11
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ozmunkeh posted:Well, six weeks after requesting a Netapp quote we finally received it on the day we racked our new Equallogic.
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Apr 26, 2012 23:42
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We have a 2050 that we plan to retire, but want to reuse it's disk shelves. Before we can retire the 2050, we need to put our 3140 in it's place. We have a 3240 that will take the place of the existing 3140. When we replace the 2050 with the 3140 we will take all of the 3140's shelves with us. The problem is that we want to use the existing 2050 disk shelves with our 3240 before we replace the 2050. What we did was purchase two shelves on ebay that we will temporarily use with the 2050. I have put the two shelves into play, and have 28 disks sitting empty. What is the best way to move my data to these shelves? Is it to create two new aggregates and snapmirror the data from the old shelves to the new ones? Or is it to use the disk replace command to move the aggregate one disk at a time? We plan to sell these shelves on ebay after we are done, which is why we have to play musical data.
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Apr 27, 2012 01:13
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adorai posted:We have a 2050 that we plan to retire, but want to reuse it's disk shelves. Before we can retire the 2050, we need to put our 3140 in it's place. We have a 3240 that will take the place of the existing 3140. When we replace the 2050 with the 3140 we will take all of the 3140's shelves with us. The problem is that we want to use the existing 2050 disk shelves with our 3240 before we replace the 2050. What we did was purchase two shelves on ebay that we will temporarily use with the 2050. I have put the two shelves into play, and have 28 disks sitting empty. What is the best way to move my data to these shelves? Is it to create two new aggregates and snapmirror the data from the old shelves to the new ones? Or is it to use the disk replace command to move the aggregate one disk at a time? We plan to sell these shelves on ebay after we are done, which is why we have to play musical data. Use volume snapmirror, or volume move, which just uses VSM on the back end to move a volume between aggregates.
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Apr 27, 2012 02:30
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NippleFloss posted:Use volume snapmirror, or volume move, which just uses VSM on the back end to move a volume between aggregates.
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Apr 29, 2012 23:41
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three posted:Compellent is absolutely terrible. We were given a unit due to the amount of business we do with Dell, and it's a pile of junk. That's quite odd... What series controller(s)? What version of Storage Center are you running? I've had nothing but extremely good experiences with Copilot, and never had a problem getting the help I need. Yes, it's a little annoying that you have to call and open a case to update the firmware/Storage Center software. But it's nice that when you do, they remote login and do a health check before releasing the software. If you set up an alert in Knowledge Center, you'll get an email notifying you whenever there's a new version, and then you can call in and start the case. I've had mine about a year (SC40 controllers, on 5.5.6 OS right now) running VMware and Oracle Database backends. I have plenty of thin-provisioned VMDKs that were storage-vmotioned over from an old array, but I don't see problems with that. I've never had my controllers lock up, and never had Copilot reboot either of my controllers. I routinely hit 300-600MB/sec and 11K IOPS during busy times, with latency staying below 4ms. Don't you get a survey link every time you open a case? If you're really having that many issues, I'd give a negative survey response and wait for the calls to come in. I rated something negatively the first time a Dell contractor came out to replace a part, and had never worked on any of the Compellent gear. He wasted over an hour reading manuals for a cache card replacement. I got a call from a manager asking for more details a few hours after I submitted the survey. The next time I had someone out (their lab had identified a problem in some limited cases with Emulex 8Gb FC cards, so they proactively replaced them with Qlogic 8Gb FC cards) the same guy came out. He said that he got a call asking him to schedule some Compellent training at Dell's expense after the last time he was out, and was a lot more comfortable working on them now. I've been nothing but pleased so far.
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Apr 30, 2012 21:13
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Intraveinous posted:That's quite odd... What series controller(s)? What version of Storage Center are you running? We have the same controllers, 5.5.3 OS. We have had Dell and Compellent come into our office numerous times. We've had Storage Engineers, Dell Tiger Team, etc. We've given them beyond the benefit of the doubt. I find most people that like them have only used cheap devices or local storage. Compellent doesn't even support for any of the VAAI features except space reclamation, so I'd never use it for virtualization.
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Apr 30, 2012 21:27
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Previous arrays were HP EVAs, just retired my EVA 4000, still have an EVA 4400 in production. My job doesn't have enough people to have a dedicated SAN Admin, and I wouldn't say that I've got a particularly high-end deployment, but it's not really low end either. The fact that SAN is just one of many things I do (VMware, AIX, Linux, Network) is what pushed me toward the Compellent. It's easy enough to configure and use without having to dedicate exclusively to that. As for VAAI, Storage Center 6.0 supports Full Copy Offload and Hardware Assisted Locking too. Meh, I'm sorry you've had bad luck with it. Since you got it for free and hate it, if you wanna send it my way, I'm sure I could figure out something to do with it.
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Apr 30, 2012 21:55
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