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I don't have a link, but I got three rhizomes from my LHBS a few weeks ago. Apparently fuggles really like humidity, and luckly I have a trellis right by my dryer vent, so they are coming along pretty well. I also have a centennial which is significantly larger then the others, but I think it gets the most light. My Zeus rhizome hasn't sprouted yet, but I think it gets the least light. Anecdotally, it seems sunlight is key to their growth, but otherwise they have been pretty much self sufficient. Also, don't flood them with water, but keep the ground moist. The last thing is, hops are basically a cousin to the weed plant, which earned the nickname weed because, well, it basically is exactly that. In it's natural climate, it grows like crazy without needing any tender loving care from a grower. From everything I've found, it's pretty similar with hops. It's pretty hard to kill them, and once they get their root system established they are pretty much self sufficient. I live in New York, which used to be the largest hop producer in the US prior to prohibition and I know several people around me, and a few in western NY who just have tons and tons of wild hops growing on the undeveloped areas of their property.
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Apr 27, 2012 05:17
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My helles is like a week and change into carbing and for some reason it's gotten... blander. I had almost a full pint of the stuff when it was on the gas for just over 24 hours and it seemed a lot more flavorful. I'm hoping it's just "keg shock" or some weird abberation like the first pull after it's settled for two weeks, but this isn't living up to the promise of the uncarbonated beer 
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Apr 27, 2012 07:37
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So a buddy of mine and I started brewing with extract kits a few months back. We went through a few batches and while they turned out pretty OK, we really want to brew something with a little more kick. All of our extract kits have come out around 5-5.5%. We're not quite ready to go all-grain, so how would we go about brewing an 8-10% beer using extract? Are there any sites out there that have recipes for extract brews?
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Apr 27, 2012 13:23
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:So a buddy of mine and I started brewing with extract kits a few months back. We went through a few batches and while they turned out pretty OK, we really want to brew something with a little more kick. All of our extract kits have come out around 5-5.5%. Pick up a copy of Brewing Classic Styles. It's an excellent recipe book that gives you one solid, sometimes award winning, recipe for every BJCP style. All the recipes have extract and all-grain versions so anyone can get good use out of the book.
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Apr 27, 2012 13:29
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:We're not quite ready to go all-grain, so how would we go about brewing an 8-10% beer using extract? Are there any sites out there that have recipes for extract brews? There are a gently caress load (more than you could ever go though) of recipes by style here: http://hopville.com/styles they'll say if they are extract or not. You can select different 'levels' after selecting 'style' ( IE http://hopville.com/beer-style/imperial-ipa-recipes/extract-with-specialty-grains). What I used to (and still) do is go to Northern Brewer/Morebeer/Austin Homebrewing and check out a the recipe sheet listed on their website. This will give you the best idea for what to formulate for extract brews. I also read what the description says about the brew, see if I want to add this or that check out hopville for ideas, check a couple books and then decide on what goes in. You can almost always get away cheaper than a 'kit' if you buy the ingredients separately. Even better if you know your want to brew a pale ale and a stout (as an example) right after each other and see if you can match up some of the ingredients and yeast to save more monies.
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Apr 27, 2012 14:14
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:We're not quite ready to go all-grain, so how would we go about brewing an 8-10% beer using extract? Short answer is use more extract, more hops, and give the beer more conditioning time (to let the rougher flavors smooth out). It's basically that simple, though you should stick to some recipes first to get a feel for how to scale the IBUs in accordance with the higher OGs.
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Apr 27, 2012 16:14
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Also be aware that higher-gravity, extract-based beers can be overly sweet because of extract's tendency to underattenuate. Be sure to pitch enough yeast, aerate well, and keep the use of crystal and other body-enhancing malts to a minimum. This is also a very good place to use kettle sugars to keep the final gravity in check. You'll have a harder time getting good results from a concentrated boil, too. The higher gravities of big beers already reduce hop utilization, and if you do a concentrated boil on top of that, you'll get even less out of them. If you have the means, a full-volume boil is definitely a good idea; if you have to do a concentrated boil, plan to boil at a gravity approximating your (diluted) original gravity by putting in only part of your extract at the start, then add the remainder of the extract in the last ten or fifteen minutes.
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Apr 27, 2012 16:27
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Jo3sh posted:plan to boil at a gravity approximating your (diluted) original gravity by putting in only part of your extract at the start, then add the remainder of the extract in the last ten or fifteen minutes. I have boiled something on the order of half my finishing volume, according to recipe packs I've ordered off a local site. That's all well and good and they often call for adding the last half or so of DME at the end. Aside from hop utilization and decreased maillard reactions due to the malts not being boiled for so long, what is the effect of not boiling extract? Could I theoretically make a low-gravity beer with tons of hops and then dunk enough DME to make something heavy like 1.080 beer? I realize there probably is a book on this but I figured I'd ask since it was being talked about. on another note, brew day today! Getting a buddy over to help me out and show him how I make the stuff I serve at parties these days. Excited.
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Apr 27, 2012 16:52
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mewse posted:So it looks like I'm getting golding and fuggle rhizomes from the local hop lady. Anyone have any good links for growing hops? I don't want to murder them but I probably will. I planeted Willamette hops last spring, soon we had a hurricane then two feet of snow in October and I assumed they were toast. Earlier this month my wife noticed some vines growing from the garden. I placed a post for it to wrap around and now they are over 3 feet long. So you never know. Hop vines can be hardy but other varieties can be susceptible to disease. here are two good beginners introduction to growing hops http://www.freshops.com/hop-growing/hop-gardening http://www.americanhopmuseum.org/hopgrowingseason.htm
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Apr 27, 2012 17:02
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Kaiho posted:Aside from hop utilization and decreased maillard reactions due to the malts not being boiled for so long, what is the effect of not boiling extract? Could I theoretically make a low-gravity beer with tons of hops and then dunk enough DME to make something heavy like 1.080 beer? Hop utilization and color change are the two big differences between concentrated and full-volume boils. There may be other effects, but I don't have a good idea of what they might be. If absolutely nothing else, sanitation is one thing a boil does for you, so you'll want to boil the late extract for ten minutes or so at minimum. You certainly could do a low-gravity boil and then beef it up at the end to whatever you wanted. You do need some extract from the start, or you won't get the hop conversion you want in beer. You couldn't boil hops and water for 50 minutes then add ten pounds of extract for ten minutes and expect a good result (at least I don't think so - I have not tried it). My advice is to boil at your expected original gravity (in this hypothetical case, 1.080) for the main part of the boil. I have not experimented with boiling lighter than the expected OG (e.g., 1.040) and then adding a huge bolus of extract for a few minutes at the end. I think you will get more utilization from a lower dose of hops, but someone would have to try it and report back.
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Apr 27, 2012 17:21
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Thanks for the advice, Daedalus and wetmouse. I think I might hang some string from a tree in my parents yard as long as they're OK with me digging up their lawn in those spots.
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Apr 27, 2012 17:53
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Jo3sh posted:sage advice Thanks. I guess I would be game for trying something crazy like that if I had the budget (which I don't at the moment). If I ever do I will most definitely write up on it.
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Apr 27, 2012 18:11
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kwantam posted:This one: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=2437 Catching up on the thread after a long vacation, I had a question about this thing. Does the regulator have a gauge so you know how many liters per minute of oxygen you're adding, or is it just a knob you turn til it "seems right"? I'm thinking of upgrading to an O2 tank because using an aquarium pump takes loving forever, generates tons of foam and still comes nowhere near the ppm that pure O2 does. But without a pressure gauge I'd be worried about massively under or over oxygenating and doing more harm than good. Sirotan posted:Also bent down the cooling element. Be careful with this. I did it on an old mini fridge and over time it started to have a weird chemical smell and stopped getting cold. I think I broke something important while bending it down 
Docjowles fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 27, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 19:36
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Found a 54 qt Coleman Steel-Belted cooler at the thrift store for  .  new mashtun!Fucker was made three months after I was born. Fate, baby. icehewk fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 03:24
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Need some opinions. Bottled an ESB on 4/9. Tried first bottle on 4/15, it came out alright. So I aged it another week, put 3 bottles in the fridge, and right now, I've pulled one out, and I've noticed some white clumps on the surface in each bottle. Some of the clumps are larger than the others. If this is an infection, I'm confused, because it didn't show on the 15th. Also, I'll be bummed. I sanitize the hell out of my bottles. I'll open it to see what the aroma is. Edit: Sour beer. =/ Checking all of the bottles, it appears that 7 capped bombers are fine, but the rest of the bottles (24 some odd 16oz Grolsch pop tops, and 2 32 oz pop tops) all have circular globs on the inside. They all shared the same 5 gallon Star San bath, and on the 15th, there was no sign of infection on the bottle I had...I'm guessing it's time to replace all of the pop top rubber. Anyone have any thoughts? TheKingPuuChuu fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 06:32
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Heh I had one reply typed up but I shitcanned it in light of your edit. If bottles with a porous rubber gasket are infected, and bottles with a regular sturdy metal cap are fine, it's pretty obvious where the infection came from. Buy new gaskets, or just trade all the swing-top bottles to someone else (after disclosing that the gaskets are hosed, don't be a jerk) and eliminate that issue. I'd let the "good" bottles sit a few weeks just to make sure the bottles were the source of the infection, but if they are still good a month from now, get rid of the swing tops.
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Apr 28, 2012 06:52
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Sorry to keep posting so frequently but it seems I'm a sucker for punishment. I've run out of ingredients and given it's almost payday I'll be putting together an order. Now, I'm not in the US so can't order from Northern Brewer, but I saw a picture on Twitter of all places of a really nice-looking (and apparently tasty) stout. It's the St Paul Porter Northern Brewer make. The recipe for it is here. What confuses me a little bit is the amount of dark malt they call for in addition to the specialty grains. The consensus in this thread has seemed to be John Palmer's "use light malt extract even with dark beers, getting the extra color and flavor from specialist grains". I'd appreciate a critique of the recipe, given I'll have to piece it together from the individual ingredients. in other news, I brewed my first recipe with partials last night, and man the smell is something else compared to the all-DME recipes I've used so far. Squeezing the grain bag with gloves to drain it felt... Alien. Weirdly organic. At least my compost heap now has something grainy and woody to pad it out. I ended up pitching the slurry from the beer I'd bottled earlier on the same night. It's the beast of a Nottingham I mentioned a few posts back. Four hours after pitching I was getting bubbling. No doubt the thing is going nuts by now, but I'm not at home to check it. Ended up saving me a sachet of yeast if it all works out.
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Apr 28, 2012 14:48
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They are probably right about using light malt extract. Dark malt extract usually doesn't ferment as completely as the lighter varients and with the chocolate and dark crystal you'll be getting more then dark enough beer. Honestly though, color should be on the bottom of the list of things you worry about, you can create a pretty wide swing in color without changing the flavor much in a lot of style, early on in brewing I think it's more important to worry about getting the gravity, IBUs, and flavors of the beer where you want them. Who cares if a stout is brown instead of black if it tastes the way you want it. When you remake a recipe that didn't get the color you were going for, you'll only have to make very slight adjustments or additions to change color. tl;dr: don't worry about color so much, it's easier to use one malt to adjust color in a beer you like then to use several malts to adjust the flavor in a beer that's the right color.
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Apr 28, 2012 15:54
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Daedalus Esquire posted:They are probably right about using light malt extract. Dark malt extract usually doesn't ferment as completely as the lighter varients and with the chocolate and dark crystal you'll be getting more then dark enough beer. "They" being "everyone in this thread", right?  I am not worried about the outward appearance of the beer, don't worry about that. I was just concerned since Northern Brewer tell you to use darker extracts but people making stouts and porters here tend to just use specialty grains to get the color and a gravity contribution and then get the majority of the fermentables from light malt.
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Apr 28, 2012 16:10
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It kind of depends on what the "English chocolate malt" and "English Dark Crystal" are. For grins I plugged it into BeerSmith. Using a lighter English chocolate (450 SRM) it's juuuuust on the low end of color for a porter, more of a deep amber than brown. If you use the 650 SRM chocolate, it's much darker and right in the middle of the color range for porter. In this case it's a tough call. When designing your own recipe, I definitely suggest using pale extract and building the exact flavors and colors you want with specialty grains. But here it's a kit that's been put together for you. If you rip out the dark extract, it is going to taste (and look, obviously) different than intended. You aren't taking a recipe and then dumping a lot of extra dark flavor into it, it was built with that in mind from the start. So it's up to you (yay homebrewing!). If you decide to change it up, I'd suggest adding about 0.5 lbs of either Roasted Barley or Black Patent malt to get back the character you removed with the dark extract. Roasted Barley will give you more coffee flavor, Black will mostly just impart color. Also think about subbing in a pound or two of Munich extract if it's available to you, it will give some more bready malt complexity.
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Apr 28, 2012 16:39
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Yea, I kinda miss read what you wrote, I thought you were referencing another forum or something. Basically extract is a replacement for using a base grain. Most extracts are made from 2-row or pale malt, as you move to Amber they will generally add some caramel malts, Vienna, or Munich malt. Dark malt extract will generally be pretty similar to Amber, but with some black malt or another high SRM malt. Generally dark malt extract won't have chocolate or roasted grains that are used for a stout anyway so it's not like you'er gonna miss out. With that in mind, taking you're Northern Brewer recipe, we can look at it in all grain: 5 lb 2-row 1 lb vienna 1 lb crystal .5 lb Chocolate Malt .5 lb Dark Crystal Malt Now, it's not a perfect conversion since I don't actually know what the makeup is of those exact malt extracts, but it's close enough for the example. As you can see, the dark malt extracts basically convert out to a majority of 2-row and a little bit of specialty malts. The crystal malt will make your beer end a little sweeter (and part of the reason dark extract doesn't ferment as much) and the Vienna is probably not gonna be that big of a deal, but traditionally is more of a lager grain. Swapping for light malt extract, you'd end up with: 7 lb 2-row .5 lb chocolate .5 lb dark crystal malt Since your recipe calls for dark crystal, you don't need the crystal malts that are present in the darker extracts as you'll already be getting some unfermentables. The Vienna/Munich/whatever they used is gone, which is arguable a good thing if you are going for accuracy, as they don't traditionally belong in the style. Since these are gone, yet the volume remains the same, it means you're just getting more base malt in your recipe instead of adjuncts that my not belong in there to begin with. In fact, looking at adjuncts, we go from 28% in the first example, to around 14% in the second. I forget where I read it, but I think the rule of thumb is you don't really want to go above 20% adjuncts unless a particular style calls for it, and I think you generally want to keep it pretty low in stouts. I hope this helps, it's not really a perfect explanation, but I'd only consider myself an intermediate brewer and this is all just off the cuff conversion so I'm sure someone will have some corrections in here, but it should at least give you the basic reasoning of why it's OK to replace dark extract with light in the case of something like a stout. :edit: I think Docjowles makes a really good point that I kinda ignored, they did design this recipe to taste a certain way and obviously someone liked the way that it tasted enough to make that the recipe they sell to people. Everything I talked about really comes down to more personal preference, how much you care about fitting a certain style, and how much you care about the whole "why vs how" aspects of the hobby. Daedalus Esquire fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 17:04
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Oh the subject of storing bulk grain, what's everyone's preference on storage? The easiest and cheapest thing I've found is a bunch of 5 gallon home depot buckets with lids. They're cheap as poo poo, but they're not air-tight. I'd like to find a couple larger (10-25 gallon) water and air-tight containers to store my surplus grain as I'm starting to accumulate a collection. Plus, a couple extra would be nice for the Misses' bird seed and our dog food storage, since my basement seems to be an ideal winter mouse home. I remember as a kid my dad had some 10ish gallon army surplus metal buckets, similar to ammo boxes, with a banded snap lid we stored emergency grain rations in. Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I think something like that would be ideal, however none of the army/navy stores around me have anything like that or have ever heard of something like that.
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Apr 28, 2012 17:26
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UxP posted:Oh the subject of storing bulk grain, what's everyone's preference on storage? The easiest and cheapest thing I've found is a bunch of 5 gallon home depot buckets with lids. They're cheap as poo poo, but they're not air-tight. I'd like to find a couple larger (10-25 gallon) water and air-tight containers to store my surplus grain as I'm starting to accumulate a collection. Plus, a couple extra would be nice for the Misses' bird seed and our dog food storage, since my basement seems to be an ideal winter mouse home. You can buy airtight barrels at outdoors-type places. They're used on extended canoe trips for if there's a dump into the water, everything stays dry.
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Apr 28, 2012 18:49
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What does 55 pounds of grain work out to, volume-wise? edit: This is a good blogpost. icehewk fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 20:19
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icehewk posted:What does 55 pounds of grain work out to, volume-wise? That guy's Top Finds page has some pretty sweet deals. Scale accurate to 0.1 grams for $6? Yes please!
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Apr 28, 2012 21:33
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Docjowles posted:That guy's Top Finds page has some pretty sweet deals. Scale accurate to 0.1 grams for $6? Yes please! Holy poo poo! The answer to my prayers: Eva-dry EDV-E-500 Renewable Wireless Mini Dehumidifer
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Apr 29, 2012 00:52
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Docjowles posted:That guy's Top Finds page has some pretty sweet deals. Scale accurate to 0.1 grams for $6? Yes please! I bought this and I love that the "suggested items" are all weed related. I guess they're not that far off since hops are the same family of plant.
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Apr 29, 2012 01:43
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A new version of BeerSmith is coming next month, featuring "cloud sync" of all your recipes and the ability to publish them to the web for easy sharing. That actually sounds pretty great.
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Apr 29, 2012 18:38
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That would be pretty cool. I love that he's finally adding in brewday timers. I really want somebody (beersmith themselves, preferably) to release a -good- mobile app. iBrewMaster is alright, but horribly designed and generally just awful to actually use, the ones I've seen on Android seem mediocre. I'd love a cloud synced iPhone app back and forth to Beersmith. e: read that whole thing and it looks like he is actually intending on mobile app development.
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Apr 29, 2012 20:56
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Docjowles posted:A new version of BeerSmith is coming next month, featuring "cloud sync" of all your recipes and the ability to publish them to the web for easy sharing. That actually sounds pretty great. Sounds cool on the surface, but: quote:BeerSmith 2.1 will be a free upgrade for all BeerSmith 2 users. A basic cloud account will also be free. It has limited online storage (currently 10 recipes in your cloud folder), but gives you enough room to download several recipes at a time (which you can easily cut/paste to your main My Recipes folder), share the ones you are working on across machines or the community, and engage in commenting and bookmarking on the new site. I'll continue just using dropbox, thanks. I realize $1 / month isn't much, but storing all my recipes on dropbox is free and easy.
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Apr 29, 2012 21:15
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Can anyone recommend a dandelion wine recipe?
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Apr 29, 2012 22:39
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Thanks a lot for taking time to explain things to a newbie.Docjowles posted:It kind of depends on what the "English chocolate malt" and "English Dark Crystal" are. For grins I plugged it into BeerSmith. Using a lighter English chocolate (450 SRM) it's juuuuust on the low end of color for a porter, more of a deep amber than brown. If you use the 650 SRM chocolate, it's much darker and right in the middle of the color range for porter. I actually had to read about SRM and its comparison to EBC but the chocolate I'd be easily able to get looks like it's a little lighter than 650 but still pretty dark. Docjowles posted:So it's up to you (yay homebrewing!). If you decide to change it up, I'd suggest adding about 0.5 lbs of either Roasted Barley or Black Patent malt to get back the character you removed with the dark extract. Roasted Barley will give you more coffee flavor, Black will mostly just impart color. Also think about subbing in a pound or two of Munich extract if it's available to you, it will give some more bready malt complexity. I think for me the main thing is getting the corresponding ingredients in the UK from suppliers here. I'm not necessarily looking to re-create the same exact recipe, but something of comparable quality. I've liked what I've heard about the recipe so something similar would be ideal. By subbing Munich extract, you mean I'd swap of the LME with something like this? Seems the place I've ordered most of my stuff from before (BrewUK) only stock actual malt, not Munich extract... Daedalus Esquire posted:Yea, I kinda miss read what you wrote, I thought you were referencing another forum or something. This was really helpful, thanks Daedalus Esquire. I think I will indeed have to go with that conversion recipe and use chocolate and dark crystal to complement pale extract. Like I said, the DocJowles point absolutely stands. This will no longer be the Northern Brewer St Paul Porter recipe. Instead, I hope it's going to be a dark, tasty porter that's going to get me deeper into using specialty grains alongside extract, and to learn about the effect caramel, chocolate, etc have on the taste and color of beer.
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Apr 29, 2012 23:29
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I have a Scottish Ale extract kit from Brewer's Best, and I've been messing around with the recipe in BeerSmith 2. This will be my first 5 gallon batch (moving up from 1 gallon), and the first one I'm tempted to tweak the recipe on. The stock recipe is here: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1038_Scottish_Ale.pdf My kit came with Cascade for bittering and aroma, and a packet of Danstar Windsor. I'm thinking of adding some more DME, bumping up the bittering hops, and switching to Fuggles for aroma, since I really liked it in the last brown ale I did. Something like this: Boil volume: 3.34 gal Boil time: 45 min 4 oz Caramel 60L (steep 20 min) 4 oz Chocolate (steep 20 min) 4 oz Smoked Malt (steep 20 min) 1 oz Roasted Barley (steep 20 min) 3.3 lbs Amber LME @ 45 min 1 lb Amber DME @ 45 min 8 oz Light DME @ 45 min 1 oz Cascade (6.4%) @ 45 min 1 oz Fuggles (4.2%) @ 5 min Does this look reasonable? One thing I'm not sure of is the quantity of Fuggles. I also picked up a packet of Danstar Nottingham since it's supposed to finish drier, but I haven't decided on yeast yet.
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Apr 29, 2012 23:33
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Kaiho posted:By subbing Munich extract, you mean I'd swap of the LME with something like this? Seems the place I've ordered most of my stuff from before (BrewUK) only stock actual malt, not Munich extract... Yeah that's what I meant.
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Apr 30, 2012 00:03
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Did my first all grain brew today, wasn't as stressful or difficult as I thought it would be. However, my effeciency sort of sucked, even though I tried a batch sparge. Here's the recipe: http://hopville.com/recipe/1307575/klsch-recipes/kolsch I did a mash out with 1.5 gallons of boiling water to raise the temp up to the 165-170 range, although it only seemed to get to the low 160s. I mixed for about a minute or so, then drained into the kettle with a vorlauf to settle the grain bed. Then, I tossed in 3.5 gallons of water at about 170 and stirred the grains fairly thoroughly, and drained with a vorlauf. Should I have allowed the mash out to sit in the tun for longer? Do I just need to stir more? I ended up only getting about 66%, and I was hoping for at least 70%.
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Apr 30, 2012 00:14
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Zakath posted:Did my first all grain brew today, wasn't as stressful or difficult as I thought it would be. However, my effeciency sort of sucked, even though I tried a batch sparge. Here's the recipe: http://hopville.com/recipe/1307575/klsch-recipes/kolsch Either way 66% is pretty good for a first shot. I generally leave my batches in for about 15 minutes before starting the drain since I am heating up the next batch anyway and it will give it some time to extract.
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Apr 30, 2012 00:48
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zedprime posted:Did you only take 5 gallons of runnings? Depending on your boil off you can easily take 5.5-6, or even 6.5 which will boil down to 5 and some change, and then you lose the change to hops or trub or whatever. Over extraction exists but I wouldn't worry about it unless making a really low gravity beer.
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Apr 30, 2012 03:42
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Anyone ever use WLP630? I pitched a couple vials and they were like cottage cheese, is that normal? They were also mailed to me over 5 days so the ice pack was good and warm when it got to me.
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Apr 30, 2012 18:57
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Never used that particular strain, but I've seen some pretty weird yeasts so I wouldn't worry unless it just never ferments. British yeasts come out of the vial either as a giant solid yeast turd or gross eggdrop soup looking crud, for example.
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Apr 30, 2012 19:03
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Okay, so I'm toying around with a partial mash vanilla porter recipe and I could use some advice on fermentables. In the end I'm looking for a more drinkable version of a porter, so any input is much appreciated. Feel free to point out obvious noob mistakes, I consider myself an obvious noob thus far. Here's what I've plugged into Hopville: 4lb Muntons Amber DME 8oz Breiss Dark Chocolate 8oz Crisp Crystal (15L) 1oz Fuggles pellet - 60 mins remaining .5oz Fuggles pellet - 30 mins remaining .5oz Brambling Cross - 5 mins remaining White Labs Burton Ale yeast (WLP023) Primary until it calms down, secondary for two weeks with four vanilla beans, seeds scraped in and pods chopped
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May 1, 2012 01:22
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