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TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

AgentSythe posted:

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell you a single thing about Moldova. It wasn't even where I expected it to be on the map.

The FS, it will teach you geography!

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Suntory BOSS
Apr 17, 2006

Business of Ferrets posted:

Why do you think this? Because of the PNQ process?

Pretty much. State has a history of biased hiring and the PNQ's lack of transparency does not inspire confidence. I suspect disproportionate numbers of privileged Ivy League grads pass the mystery panel because the average community college grad working retail simply isn't able to compete... let alone cough up the cash for (perhaps multiple) flights to DC.

None of this really criticism, just an observation that FSO hiring is not magically exempt from the same influences and biases as the rest of society.

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

Suntory BOSS posted:

Pretty much. State has a history of biased hiring and the PNQ's lack of transparency does not inspire confidence. I suspect disproportionate numbers of privileged Ivy League grads pass the mystery panel because the average community college grad working retail simply isn't able to compete... let alone cough up the cash for (perhaps multiple) flights to DC.

None of this really criticism, just an observation that FSO hiring is not magically exempt from the same influences and biases as the rest of society.

Dude, that report is from 23 years ago. State is basically a model employer when it comes to Equal Employment Opportunity issues. Pale, male, and Yale has pretty much gone by the wayside.

Also, the PNQ process is something new in the last 5-7 years or so; when I applied, the process was blind for the evaluators, who were not allowed to know anything about your background, and could only judge performance at the FSOA. That worked well for me as a young college junior, but it really isn't the best way to make sure you're hiring people with relevant professional experience.

These days, if someone doesn't get hired, it has nothing to do with race/gender/age/orientation/{insert protected category here}. We have so many of every type of person in the Foreign Service, it really must be one of the best places in government in that regard.

Johnny Five-Jaces
Jan 21, 2009


TCD posted:

The FS, it will teach you geography!

I mean I was close, I guessed the Balkans. That puts me in the top 5% of Americans!

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Suntory BOSS posted:

Pretty much. State has a history of biased hiring and the PNQ's lack of transparency does not inspire confidence. I suspect disproportionate numbers of privileged Ivy League grads pass the mystery panel because the average community college grad working retail simply isn't able to compete... let alone cough up the cash for (perhaps multiple) flights to DC.

None of this really criticism, just an observation that FSO hiring is not magically exempt from the same influences and biases as the rest of society.

Just thinking from my class, we had federal law enforcement officers, state and local police officers (or sheriffs or something, I forget which), local prosecutors, PCVs, enlisted military, college professors, etc.

We did have a community college grad, as well as a heavily represented set of state universities (Florida State, ASU, OSU, Maryland, UMass, SUNY-errywhere) etc.

Our class was pretty well represented with minorities, especially east and southwest asian as well.

Suntory BOSS
Apr 17, 2006

Business of Ferrets posted:

Dude, that report is from 23 years ago. State is basically a model employer when it comes to Equal Employment Opportunity issues. Pale, male, and Yale has pretty much gone by the wayside.

Also, the PNQ process is something new in the last 5-7 years or so; when I applied, the process was blind for the evaluators, who were not allowed to know anything about your background, and could only judge performance at the FSOA. That worked well for me as a young college junior, but it really isn't the best way to make sure you're hiring people with relevant professional experience.

These days, if someone doesn't get hired, it has nothing to do with race/gender/age/orientation/{insert protected category here}. We have so many of every type of person in the Foreign Service, it really must be one of the best places in government in that regard.

I'm not arguing discriminatory practices or EEO violations, I'm arguing that some WASP Harvard grad who served in the Peace Corps, founded his own NGO and works for a multinational corporation is going to be able to write far more successful PNQ entries than a community college grad working part-time at Best Buy and struggling to make ends meet. I'm just not convinced that this opaque black-box selection process is an improvement over being judged by FSOA performance alone-- at least publish evaluation criteria or something.

I'll add a disclaimer that I got shot down by the PNQ and was pretty salty about it, although I don't think my admitted bias diminishes the validity of the argument. State does a good job, but it could be doing much better..

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Suntory BOSS posted:

I'm not arguing discriminatory practices or EEO violations, I'm arguing that some WASP Harvard grad who served in the Peace Corps, founded his own NGO and works for a multinational corporation is going to be able to write far more successful PNQ entries than a community college grad working part-time at Best Buy and struggling to make ends meet. I'm just not convinced that this opaque black-box selection process is an improvement over being judged by FSOA performance alone-- at least publish evaluation criteria or something.

I'll add a disclaimer that I got shot down by the PNQ and was pretty salty about it, although I don't think my admitted bias diminishes the validity of the argument. State does a good job, but it could be doing much better..

Well, by your example, someone with that type of background would be much more qualified compared to somebody working at Best Buy. That has no correlation based on Ivy league schools.

Disclaimer, I was also shotdown in the PNQ process.

pamchenko
Apr 16, 2011

AgentSythe posted:

I mean I was close, I guessed the Balkans. That puts me in the top 5% of Americans!

Well, now I can tell you that Chisinau is a beautiful little city with great food. Also, Moldova has great wine. (Okay, I didn't learn that today. But it's still true.)

Skandiaavity
Apr 20, 2005

Diplomaticus posted:

Medical is basically a physical. It takes a half a day, then a day off, then another half day, but 99% of that time is waiting; it's actually maybe only 30 minutes of physical.

Your security clearance is more in depth. They will contact your family, neighbors, prior jobs, etc. Depending on your history it could take as little as 2 months (mine) or as long as 2 years (some unlucky bastards I know). It has all those things you mention, about debt, drugs, criminal history, etc.

Pretty much. The Medical is just basically a physical and a lab test (blood/urine.) The lady/nurse at State is very skilled and polite with needles. Probably the best I met in my life, I never even felt that thing going in or out.

For the security clearances, there's a ton of reasons why they would deny you (State is a bit different from DOD, but the DOD publishes all adjudications/denials online.) The only thing I can help you with there is: be honest.. If you hide something it'll come out sooner or later, and it's better for you in all aspects to be sooner.


Also I want to second that State has arguably the most transparent hiring process. Way more transparent and fair than the private sector, and far more than other USG agencies. They literally give you everything you need to know how to pass the exam and interviews before you go in and do it. They only give you veterans preference points after you make it through, not before. No Schedule A or fast tracks, either. It's up to you how to interpret the information is given to you, and is more about what kind of person you are rather than what your background is. IMO, that's why people fail. They approach it like any other job interview.

It's true maybe a rich/upper-class person can have "more experience" than someone working at best buy, but you never really know. It depends :P That person at best buy could interpret his questions positively and respond with a solution, which will look far better than the simple answer of "I ran a NGO so of course I did all those things." Both those statements can tell you a lot about the character of the person.

Skandiaavity fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Apr 25, 2012

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

So is it inherently better to be an FSO as opposed to an expat? Or what are the pros and cons to each facet?

All about expectations. I know RPCVs who have a really hard time being in an American bubble and want to get back out into Bumblefuck to be with the real people, and I know people from Bumblefuck, USA who want to exist in an entirely American bubble. Some friends who joined in their early twenties had a hard time lining up their memories of study abroad in the Middle East (no security restrictions, go hiking wherever you want, go offline for weeks on end) with the realities of being an official American (and thus, a juicy target) in certain Arab countries.

In my current post (Turkey) I've found it pretty easy to get out and mix it up with locals if I want to, though I must confess that my closest friend group is a group of long-time Istanbul expats. I supply bacon, they negotiate more complicated language scenarios than I can handle for me. We all win!

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

AgentSythe posted:

I mean I was close, I guessed the Balkans. That puts me in the top 5% of Americans!

Yeah I loved that moment in A100 where we got the bid list, digested it shortly, then immediately ran to the large map at the back of the room to figure out where Asmara, Port of Spain, and Ougadougou were located.

It's still incredibly depressing to have to explain to people that Istanbul is not the capital of Turkey. (And then to have people sing That Song at me.)

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

the_chavi posted:

(And then to have people sing That Song at me.)

In fairness, it's not Constantinople.

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

Business of Ferrets posted:

In fairness, it's not Constantinople.

Very true.

Vilerat
May 11, 2002
SUBJECT: VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT - FOREIGN SERVICE
INFORMATION MANAGEMENT TECHNICAL SPECIALIST/DIGITAL

1. This is to alert posts that a vacancy announcement
for Foreign Service Information Management Technical
Specialists/Digital will open on April 25, 2012. It
will close on May 09, 2012. The announcement is
available on https://www.careers.state.gov.



SUBJECT: VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT - FOREIGN SERVICE
INFORMATION MANAGEMENT TECHNICAL SPECIALIST/RADIO

1. This is to alert posts that a vacancy announcement
for Foreign Service Information Management Technical
Specialists/Radio will open on April 25, 2012. It will
close on May 09, 2012. The announcement is available on
https://www.careers.state.gov.

SUBJECT: VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT - FOREIGN SERVICE
INFORMATION MANAGEMENT TECHNICAL SPECIALIST/TELEPHONE

1. This is to alert posts that a vacancy announcement
for Foreign Service Information Management Technical
Specialists/Telephone will open on April 25, 2012. It
will close on May 09, 2012. The announcement is
available on https://www.careers.state.gov.

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

the_chavi posted:

All about expectations. I know RPCVs who have a really hard time being in an American bubble and want to get back out into Bumblefuck to be with the real people, and I know people from Bumblefuck, USA who want to exist in an entirely American bubble. Some friends who joined in their early twenties had a hard time lining up their memories of study abroad in the Middle East (no security restrictions, go hiking wherever you want, go offline for weeks on end) with the realities of being an official American (and thus, a juicy target) in certain Arab countries.

In my current post (Turkey) I've found it pretty easy to get out and mix it up with locals if I want to, though I must confess that my closest friend group is a group of long-time Istanbul expats. I supply bacon, they negotiate more complicated language scenarios than I can handle for me. We all win!

I'm glad people are still responding to this question, and I especially like your explanation on being an "official" American in an Arab country. I guess being a juicy target would make it a hardship post then, eh?

I was actually just in Turkey last year on a project with an NGO I was working for (no, my family's not rich, just took out a big fat loan to study abroad :P ) and really enjoyed it there. We went to symposia in Istanbul, Ankara, and Mardin. I especially loved driving all over the Mardin province with the group, it really feels like the northern "edge" of the middle east there. And since Istanbul is so much larger than Ankara, is there an embassy in both cities? Or just a consulate in one or the other?

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester
There's only ever one embassy in a country; other places have a consulate (or if big enough a consulate general). I have no idea if there is one in Istanbul or not though and I'm too lazy to check.

Vilerat
May 11, 2002
There's a consulate in Istanbul.

Zoots
Apr 19, 2007

No passport for you.

Vilerat posted:

There's a consulate in Istanbul.

And they have a boat!

Vilerat
May 11, 2002

Zoots posted:

And they have a boat!

It's surprised me how many embassies have boats.

pamchenko
Apr 16, 2011

Vilerat posted:

It's surprised me how many embassies have boats.

Some friends of mine and I have discussed taking advantage of the Istanbul boat. Naturally, it would involve reenacting the "I'm on a Boat" video.

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Vilerat posted:

It's surprised me how many embassies have boats.

Well, I can think of a few places where it makes sense...

I'm enjoying Uruguay right now but I'm freezing. I realized how spoiled I've become living in places that are 75-90 year round.

TCD fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 27, 2012

Skandiaavity
Apr 20, 2005
but hey, Uruguay has some nice beaches. Wrong timing is all :|

mtreecorner
Sep 23, 2011

AgentSythe posted:

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell you a single thing about Moldova. It wasn't even where I expected it to be on the map.

They have great wine.

mtreecorner
Sep 23, 2011
Well kids... I made it on the OMS register.

Now the waiting game really starts.

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester
Yay!

Skandiaavity
Apr 20, 2005
congratulations! always can use one more OMS!

Vilerat
May 11, 2002

mtreecorner posted:

Well kids... I made it on the OMS register.

Now the waiting game really starts.

A few pointers:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Ambassador's OMS does not equal Ambassador.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003
Does anyone have an idea how long it will be until DS starts sending out invites to continue the application process? The posting closed on the 30th of March and I keep telling myself it'll be a few more weeks before I get the email.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment :ohdear:

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009
Vasudus, unless they've changed it recently, they don't email, they call you.

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Vilerat posted:

A few pointers:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Ambassador's OMS does not equal Ambassador.

Ugh. Combining 1 and 2, a certain OMS tracked me down in my office at like 7:30 as I was trying to go home, because I was "apparently" the only person in the building able to send a cable at that hour (notwithstanding her SMART worked just fine, she just refused to learn how to do it.)

And then repeated the same thing the next day.

It was not repeated a third day.

Vasudus
May 30, 2003

Tyro posted:

Vasudus, unless they've changed it recently, they don't email, they call you.

Yeah, now I can't remember if they called me or emailed me last year. I know they did both but I don't remember in what order :(

AKA Pseudonym
May 16, 2004

A dashing and sophisticated young man
Doctor Rope

Vasudus posted:

Does anyone have an idea how long it will be until DS starts sending out invites to continue the application process? The posting closed on the 30th of March and I keep telling myself it'll be a few more weeks before I get the email.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment :ohdear:

I don't know too much about how DS does it. But 4 weeks is nothing in State Department time.

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

pamchenko posted:

Some friends of mine and I have discussed taking advantage of the Istanbul boat. Naturally, it would involve reenacting the "I'm on a Boat" video.

Not anymore we don't... the employee association couldn't afford $100K/year for upkeep. :/ But yeah, when we went out on it (before it went off the water for good at the end of the last season) there was a TON of "I'm on a Boat" reenactments, especially since it's pretty common to see dolphins in the Bosphorus.

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

I was actually just in Turkey last year on a project with an NGO I was working for (no, my family's not rich, just took out a big fat loan to study abroad :P ) and really enjoyed it there. We went to symposia in Istanbul, Ankara, and Mardin.

What was the NGO, and what was the project? I have a lot of contacts who are originally from Mardin (Syriac Christians). I never got to visit during this tour, lamentably, but I'm hoping to serve in Ankara in the next 5-10 years, at which point I hope we'll make it down there a few times on road trips.

the_chavi
Mar 2, 2005

Toilet Rascal

Vilerat posted:

A few pointers:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Ambassador's OMS does not equal Ambassador.

These points apply to everyone, specialist or generalist.

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.
Hey Chavi -- how come you aren't listed in the OP as an FS goon?

Leif.
Mar 27, 2005

Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester
I'd put him in there but i don't know his info.

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

the_chavi posted:

What was the NGO, and what was the project? I have a lot of contacts who are originally from Mardin (Syriac Christians). I never got to visit during this tour, lamentably, but I'm hoping to serve in Ankara in the next 5-10 years, at which point I hope we'll make it down there a few times on road trips.

It was an Exkursion for the NGO head's (who was also my boss, this guy) philosophy class. Here's a press release. I was the only American in the group. Best lunch I ever had in my life was in the Kurdish quarter of Ankara on mother's day. We went to I think 3 different Syriac Christian monasteries in the Mardin province and even met the archbishop.

mtreecorner
Sep 23, 2011

Vilerat posted:

A few pointers:

1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Ambassador's OMS does not equal Ambassador.

Points taken. I am getting the idea that "Don't be a jerk" is a theme in government in general.

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TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

mtreecorner posted:

Points taken. I am getting the idea that "Don't be a jerk" is a theme in government in general.
That's also magnified in the FS as when you're overseas, the post community can play a large part in your personal life. Be a good person as often as you can be and people will be more accepting of you into the community which at some posts some of the only contact you'll have (compound living etc.)

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