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I haven't watched any of the Kotaku-translated episodes in a while, but I seem to recall them referring to Arino solely as "Kacho" even in the written subtitles, as if that was his nickname or something instead of just his (un)official title. So yeah, in that case I admit it's jarring if you can clearly hear "Arino", know that his real name is Arino, and yet the subtitle keeps referring to him as "Kacho". Otherwise, English or Japanese titles or names don't really matter to me as long as they're in the proper context. I prefer the SA Team approach of subtitles written for people who may know next to nothing about Japanese culture or the language, instead of leaving half of it untranslated and shoving a paragraph of explanation at the top. VV That actually happened to me. I wrote the series off after watching a few TV Nihon and Kotaku episodes. But later I came back and tried some SA Team eps and was totally drawn in. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 13, 2012 |
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May 13, 2012 23:04
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Tewratomeh posted:Otherwise, English or Japanese titles or names don't really matter to me as long as they're in the proper context. I prefer the SA Team approach of subtitles written for people who may know next to nothing about Japanese culture or the language, instead of leaving half of it untranslated and shoving a paragraph of explanation at the top. It always makes me feel a bit odd these days when I see someone mention their first episode of GCCX was one of the TV Nihon's episodes. Yeah, that might have worked for them but how many people are watching that episode and bouncing off because of these things? They're not going to say things and may not realize that there is a more accessible version of the show out there. Oh well. File that under silly things that I worry about or let bother me that I don't have any control over...
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May 13, 2012 23:24
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A lot of it is just going to come down to personal taste, too. I (usually) prefer the Western names and characters, but I greatly prefer Kachou to "chief." Some are gonna want that Criterion Collection Throne of Blood ultra-Japanese culture nerd flavored style, and some are just gonna want references to Casper in the localization. You can't please everyone, but I think the only thing most of us can agree upon is that the SA Team is doing a pretty great job regardless. That, and everybody loves Pooh-san.
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May 14, 2012 00:14
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You could make two different subtitle tracks for each episode. This is what Nozomi Entertainment did for Maria-sama ga miteru (one with honorifics, one without, dunno if there were other differences), which honestly makes sense for that show.
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May 14, 2012 00:36
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Keyboard Kid posted:You could make two different subtitle tracks for each episode. This is what Nozomi Entertainment did for Maria-sama ga miteru (one with honorifics, one without, dunno if there were other differences), which honestly makes sense for that show. From what I watched, though, I remember that being the kind of show where it can be very important that one character backhandedly insulted another by using not quite the right honorific, so you have plot points potentially falling through the cracks if you don't do that. Translating Rockman as Megaman, on the other hand, is not going to cause anything to be lost (especially since as far as I recall all the eps that do that have had a note on the different names at the screen where they show the cartridge and release info.)
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May 14, 2012 01:03
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I like to watch Game Center CX it's a good show
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May 14, 2012 01:55
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Gutcruncher posted:Wait, you are allowed to keep it as Game Center CX in your translations? Will the DVD be called GCCX and not RGM? When I first talked to them about the title some months ago, it sounded like they're unable to call it anything other than "Retro Game Master" since that's FujiTV/StyleJam's decision. They mentioned possibly calling it "Retro Game Master: Game Center CX." But I haven't heard anything about it since then. Anyhoo there's no such thing as a perfect translation since it can be so subjective, especially when it involves two radically different languages. That's why I'm always glad/relieved whenever people are appreciative of my translations. It honestly helps to get some reassurance. zari-gani fucked around with this message at 02:50 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 02:34
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I never understood the "Retro Game Master" title. Arino sucks at games. 
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May 14, 2012 03:33
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zari-gani posted:Anyhoo there's no such thing as a perfect translation since it can be so subjective, especially when it involves two radically different languages. That's why I'm always glad/relieved whenever people are appreciative of my translations. It honestly helps to get some reassurance. Isn't it also harder with subtitles since you also have to condense everything down to a point where I can read it at the pace that it is being spoken? Also, what does the CX stand for? Also, I think I found a great tag-line for any Game Center SEX fansubbing.
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May 14, 2012 03:39
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Cemetry Gator posted:Also, what does the CX stand for? Fuji TV. CX stands for JOCX-DTV, Fuji TV's callsign. It sounds cool, but it's odd. It reminds me of the naming convention for N64 games.
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May 14, 2012 03:43
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zari-gani posted:When I first talked to them about the title some months ago, it sounded like they're unable to call it anything other than "Retro Game Master" since that's FujiTV/StyleJam's decision. They mentioned possibly calling it "Retro Game Master: Game Center CX." But I haven't heard anything about it since then. Anyone interested in the philosophy of translation may want to check out some of Douglas Hofstadter's work. For a lighter and somewhat more immediately relevant read, HG101 posted a couple of interviews with Agness Kaku and Jeremy Blaustein recently about their work translating Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2 (and Ghost Babel.) I watched the F-Zero two-parter raw videos (thanks, joek0!) and it became one of my favorites so far out of the handful I've seen even without understanding any jokes, due in part to the games featured in the between segments (Metal Slug 4! In the Hunt! Wonder Boy in Monster Land! Battle Circuit! And the infamous "Puff puff" moment from Dragon Quest III!) The main challenge had some great moments, too, particularly the rivalry with the Fire Stingray, in addition to hilarious deaths and disappointments. That game does lend itself well to an emotional rollercoaster ride. I hope he tackles the N64 game someday  
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May 14, 2012 04:06
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Cemetry Gator posted:Isn't it also harder with subtitles since you also have to condense everything down to a point where I can read it at the pace that it is being spoken? That definitely is a huge factor! Sometimes the time it takes for the line to be said is too short to cram in the best translation. When that happens I have to come up with an alternative. Slight sacrifices in accuracy has to be made in those instances, but it doesn't come up too often. Whenever Arino makes a pop culture reference, if there's enough time, I try my best to fit it into the subs. I ran into this when translating Ninja Gaiden II; upon seeing Ashtar, a character in the game goes "Chi...!" and Arino goes, "Mr. Chii?" then goes into a deep evil growl like he's Ashtar and says, "I was just taking a walk," and the crew laughs. This is confusing to a western audience who doesn't know who Chii is. So instead of "Mr. Chii?" I made it "The host of 'Chii's Walk?'" That way the audience understands that Chii is a guy who hosts a show where he goes on walks (fortunately this information is conveyed in that show's title), and then at least has some understanding of the joke Arino makes next, even if it's not as funny to them due to lack of familiarity. Sure it may not be 100% accurate, but it's way less intrusive than putting in a translator's note at the top of the screen. (In that part, the next line he says is "Wanna buy a handbag I designed?" in reference to a line of handbags designed by Chii called Chii Chii bags -- that joke could use a bit more explanation, but there's no time for that. However, at least by this point the audience knows that Mr. Chii is a celebrity, and they can simply assume he designed a bag.) There's been quite a few times when I've been stuck on a single line and spend ten minutes or so trying to condense it to the best of my abilities. Discount Viscount posted:Anyone interested in the philosophy of translation may want to check out some of Douglas Hofstadter's work. For a lighter and somewhat more immediately relevant read, HG101 posted a couple of interviews with Agness Kaku and Jeremy Blaustein recently about their work translating Metal Gear Solid 1 and 2 (and Ghost Babel.) Another great article to check out is the interview with Tom Slattery, former Square-Enix translator (he's done FF6 Advance, Chrono Trigger DS among others... those two titles, I'm familiar with, and he does wonderful translation work). vvv In regards to the title, I wish they were allowed to use "Retro Game Challenge" since it describes the show much better. zari-gani fucked around with this message at 04:36 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 04:11
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Kerfuffle posted:I never understood the "Retro Game Master" title. Arino sucks at games. Well the show is about his attempts to master retro games, so I guess you could look at it that way. Alternatively, maybe it's supposed to be ironic, like when you call a tall guy Shorty 
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May 14, 2012 04:34
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Kerfuffle posted:I never understood the "Retro Game Master" title. Arino sucks at games. I thought it was suppose to be ironic. But it's a pretty silly thing to do if you are trying to break the show into a new market. How would people who have never heard of the show know this, they wouldn't even know the host is a comedian. Just some "random Japanese guy".
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May 14, 2012 05:20
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Giving foreign media new names that aren't necessarily in the spirit of the content happens all over the world, and it actually *is* in service of trying to sell it: to buyers and "selling it" to the audience. So I kind of defend "Retro Game Master" because I seriously doubt that I could brainstorm anything better that wouldn't be A) nondescriptive or confusing to the public as "Game Center CX" or B) abrasive and unappealing ("Old Game Moron???").
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May 14, 2012 05:53
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rdbbb posted:Giving foreign media new names that aren't necessarily in the spirit of the content happens all over the world, and it actually *is* in service of trying to sell it: to buyers and "selling it" to the audience. So I kind of defend "Retro Game Master" because I seriously doubt that I could brainstorm anything better that wouldn't be A) nondescriptive or confusing to the public as "Game Center CX" or B) abrasive and unappealing ("Old Game Moron???"). Retro Game Challenge wouldve worked far better, since it doesnt imply that Arino's a master and still gets across what the show's about.
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May 14, 2012 06:02
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Gutcruncher posted:Retro Game Challenge wouldve worked far better, since it doesnt imply that Arino's a master and still gets across what the show's about. Yeah, Xseed really hit the nail on the head.
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May 14, 2012 06:26
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Box of Bunnies posted:Well the show is about his attempts to master retro games, so I guess you could look at it that way. Xik posted:I thought it was suppose to be ironic. But it's a pretty silly thing to do if you are trying to break the show into a new market. How would people who have never heard of the show know this, they wouldn't even know the host is a comedian. Just some "random Japanese guy". Meh. I always looked at it much more cynically. I personally think those involved just wanted to make a "marketable" title and decided "Retro Game Master" was more of a hook. He's not just some Japanese guy! He's the Retro Game Master. But you can call him The Kacho. As far as the translation specifics, I've always felt the SA team strikes a really nice balance. It's really helped by the fact that they actually drop in reference pictures a lot of the times when Arino makes a pop-culture comparison. For the rest of it, though, I always feel like I can keep up. It's about conveying info to the viewer at the same rate it's being discussed, and in some cases the truly accurate translation would cause more of a hangup than the familiar name (eg Patapatas, Nokonokos). Sure, there are times when I flat out don't get a reference because it's based on Japanese culture, but then again, I miss plenty of American pop-culture references too so it never really bothers me that much. Watching the TV-Nihon eps, though, I actually had to pause the video a couple of times to read the itty-bitty text explaining the joke which kinda screwed up the flow of the episode. Not to mention that when you have to explain a joke it stops being funny anyway. edit: Now with less baseless accusations! No seriously. I'm an idiot. Bo Steed fucked around with this message at 08:38 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 08:09
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"Retro Game Master" and "Kacho" were definitely StyleJam's idea though. It's how they marketed it at Cannes years before Kotaku/Gawker Media picked it up. ETA: Don't feel bad; it's easy to forget! zari-gani fucked around with this message at 08:40 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 08:14
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^^^^ What I meant. Just briefly forgot that bit. Point being it felt more like a marketing decision than anything else. Then again, I could just be jaded after a lifetime of being similarly played to by commercial translations.
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May 14, 2012 08:36
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Random Stranger posted:It always makes me feel a bit odd these days when I see someone mention their first episode of GCCX was one of the TV Nihon's episodes. Yeah, that might have worked for them but how many people are watching that episode and bouncing off because of these things? They're not going to say things and may not realize that there is a more accessible version of the show out there. It was always fun listening to people screaming at conventions that watching something subtitled was stupid. You don't know what the people are saying, watch the loving dub. :P No matter how good a job you do, it's always going to make someone crazy. An old group I used to work with once had one of our translators receive an envelope full of loose razor blades and a note to kill herself because he didn't like how she was translating the dialect for a character. Nerds be crazy  You have to admit though, watching the rage over your decisions can be fun.  I will say I fall somewhere in the middle. I do like a lot of the Japanese jokes and such left in from a purely cultural viewpoint. Part of the charm of this type of show for me was always the differences in culture, humor, etc. Doesn't bug me either way though, because you guys really are doing a fantastic job. Bo Steed posted:^^^^ What I meant. Just briefly forgot that bit. Point being it felt more like a marketing decision than anything else. Then again, I could just be jaded after a lifetime of being similarly played to by commercial translations. It does feel like a "Hey STUPID, he's playing old games!" kind of thing. But eh, I think its heart is in the right place. They're just trying to make sure this weird Japanese thing gets some traction in places where Game Center CX would give pretty much no idea what the video is about. It's sad that it needs to be force fed like that, but they're probably right. Edison Carter fucked around with this message at 08:38 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 08:36
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I think the SA team does a great job with the localizations. I recently marathoned a bunch of GCCX episodes, and TV-Nihon annoyed me with the way their purist, everything-must-have-its-Japanese-name subtitles were done, particularly in the Super Mario Bros. challenges they did. They actually did just what ImpAtom suggested and kept everything Japanese, so a koopa was a "nokonoko," and a goomba was a "kuribo," etc. I doubt anyone outside of Japan uses those names for the characters, so it's actually more confusing to have it super-accurate, not less. I prefer the way zari-gani does it and I think the SA Team does a great job in general because you take the care to localize things sensibly, like the "Chii's Walk" example. At least then I know that Arino is making a joke with a pop-culture reference and that's why the staff laughs and it isn't just some random remark. Dunno if that makes any sense, apologies if it doesn't.
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May 14, 2012 10:06
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Just posting a high-quality photo I found of some three Japanese guys.
zari-gani fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 10:06
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It's nice that Kojima and Miyamoto got to meet one of their idols. They deserve that opportunity.
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May 14, 2012 10:11
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zari-gani posted:Just posting a high-quality photo I found of some three Japanese guys. I imagine that they all just bumped into each other at that arcade and then had an impromptu Street Fighter 2 tournament. Arino played Dhalsim, of course. Unfortunately none of them won because Nakayama was the guy holding the camera... Also, zari-gani doesn't need to be told this since she already knows but I want to say it here for all of your benefit: she is absolutely incredible when it comes to making those aspects of the show understandable and accessible. She started out great and has been getting better with each translation. Which isn't to short change Nagoyan because he's genuinely terrific as well. It's just that zari-gani has translated 54 episodes/videos since she started (including the ones for Discotek) which makes it easier to see. I'm astounded that I get the pleasure of working with two extremely talented people. Finally, is it too late to suggest changing the name of the DVD release to "Iron Gamer"?
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May 14, 2012 14:44
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Small question. Is Arino tall, or is Miyamoto really tiny?
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May 14, 2012 16:32
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Vlaphor posted:Small question. Is Arino tall, or is Miyamoto really tiny?  I guess the perspective is screwy since he's apparently behind Arino.
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May 14, 2012 16:53
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Vlaphor posted:Small question. Is Arino tall, or is Miyamoto really tiny? Arino is apparently 180cm, so pretty tall for a Japanese guy.
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May 14, 2012 17:02
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Random Stranger posted:Finally, is it too late to suggest changing the name of the DVD release to "Iron Gamer"? Arino inserts the game cartridge into the system and dramatically slides the power button. "Allez gaming!"
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May 14, 2012 23:14
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Does he then take a bite out of a Famicom cart or something? 
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May 14, 2012 23:21
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Box of Bunnies posted:Arino inserts the game cartridge into the system and dramatically slides the power button. "Allez gaming!"
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May 14, 2012 23:23
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Caitlin posted:Does he then take a bite out of a Famicom cart or something? Squid jerky.
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May 15, 2012 02:12
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If memory serves me correctly it was 1993 when I first played Metal Slug...
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May 15, 2012 02:46
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I had no idea this existed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI8-Oq3G9CI A fully localized version of one of my most cherished early pc gaming experiences. I know PC gaming has kind of a "different" reputation over there but I'd love to see him take on classics like this.
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May 15, 2012 02:49
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Gimpy Joe posted:If memory serves me correctly it was 1993 when I first played Metal Slug... Toujima, can you tell us what he's doing? Kan-san! The Iron Gamer is now attempting to drop the enemy and avoid the second enemy with an edge-jump before building the steps to get the key. This will give him enough time to retrace his steps and make the goal. Oooooh, I love edge-jumps, teehehehe 
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May 15, 2012 02:53
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zari-gani posted:Toujima, can you tell us what he's doing? Arino vs. Batali: Burger[time] Battle
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May 15, 2012 03:22
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Can Masked Ninja Hanamaru be uploaded somewhere other than depositfile? That site is garbage and I can't really use it.
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May 15, 2012 04:24
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Random Stranger posted:Finally, is it too late to suggest changing the name of the DVD release to "Iron Gamer"? If we got dubbing half as amusingly eloquent as Itoi or other Japanese celebrities on Iron Chef, I'd watch the hell out of the dub. It could work. Arino: I think the endorsement of Kato-chan and Ken-chan is a tool in this game to encourage sales of the game. I feel very much like a chosen person, being able to play this game. A very profound humour mixed with... how should I say this? I think the controller is feeling happy. [laughs] Kan: [fake old man voice] Arino-san, it's that time. InokoMAX will finish for you. Inoue: Sank you very mach, sair.
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May 15, 2012 07:32
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That was a great episode, but after reading through the thread... From what we saw from the episode, I had /no/ idea that there were other chapters or stories available in the game before I read the last few pages in this thread. By the end of the episode, I was seriously wondering if people seriously paid full price for a 'game novel' that is that short at the time it came out. It's really a shame that the show didn't go deeper and did not explored the other stories, too. I suppose that it would have taken a lot of time? Really too bad, they sounded interesting. What are they like, alternate-stories that start from the same point and diverge differently than the one we saw? Do anyone have a place where I could learn more about them? Also, is this one of the most Text-intensive episodes, or there is more wordy ones that haven't been translated yet? Cosmic Afro fucked around with this message at 09:11 on May 15, 2012 |
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May 15, 2012 09:07
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I suppose this is as good a time as any to drop a plug for the Visual Novel general thread over in ADTRW if anybody is interested in more games like Kamaitachi no Yoru.
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May 15, 2012 09:16
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