The Coldest War: You Play Aurora!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > The Coldest War: You Play Aurora!

SPERMCUBE.ORG: Nov 3, 2011; Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Bremen posted:

With one fire control, all six weapons will fire on the same missile salvo. This is a bit sub-optimal but not that bad.

Other than that, PDCs can't be refit with new tech so it might be worthwhile to aim for a turret with 5,000 km/s tracking speed to match our current fire controls, and then develop a better turret later when better fire controls are available.

A small sensor would be nice as well; while another PDC could paint the targets with its own sensor, it's unfortunately extremely obvious what the source of the sensor is. If the Federation has meson weapons as well, they could take out the sensor base and leave the rest of our bases blind.

The point about the sensors is well taken. I was assuming a Federation missile attack which could be countered by the same defenses they were attempting to cripple and not something like a meson attack which we can't stop at all. So in a meson fight the side with the widest most distributed defense wins. In that case active sensors in all point defense bases makes sense. I will incorporate that into a new design. Also I'll see about squeezing in another fire control at the expense of weapons.

I tested out refitting PDCs and turns out it's broken just like you said. The construction job completes like normal but nothing changes. I'll redesign the turret to match our fire controls and if we need to refit in the future there is probably an SM mode workaround or something. Whatever.

M28 Poltergeist 100MM Meson Cannon Anti-Missile Turret

Damage Output 1x1 Rate of Fire: 15 seconds Range Modifier: 1.5
Max Range 15,000 km Turret Size: 4.2 SPW: 4.2 Turret HTK: 1
Power Requirement: 3 Power Recharge per 5 Secs: 1
Cost: 9 Crew: 30
Maximum Tracking Speed: 5000km/s
Materials Required: 6.6x Duranium 0.6x Corbomite 1.8x Corundium

Development Cost for Project: 90RP

There that makes it a bit smaller. Here's a redesign of the whole thing to incorporate Veloxyll's sensors and another fire control.

code:

MCB-4 class Missile Defence Base    2,150 tons     233 Crew     162 BP      TCS 43  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-14     Sensors 1/30     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 16.8

M28 Poltergeist 100MM Meson Cannon Anti-Missile Turret (4x1)
Range 15,000km     TS: 5000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15
1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
UN/PVB-8 Picket Close Defense Meson Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 60,000 km TS: 5000 km/s
83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (4)     Total Power Output 4    Armour 0    Exp 5%

UN/SGS-1 Warbler missile warning sensor (1)     GPS 30     Range 1.5m km    Resolution 1


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 1 sections

It's possible to build one of these about every 5 days in a pinch. A few of them can completely neutralize the commies' slow-moving ICBMs but if they launch faster TNE missiles from earth against us then they will get here so fast there isn't much we could do except take the edge off the attack.

# ? May 14, 2012 01:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 08:03

Ynkling: Mar 22, 2012; For these reasons I vote for granting UN membership to our moon.

FROM: Ynkling, Councilor, UNSA

Updated Research Directive

I decided that I don't actually care in regards to UNEC votes (and also that speed is of the essence due to the upcoming Mars diplomacy)

I'm ordering the sum total of our R&D assets to be used to make the MCB-4 class Missile Defence Base a reality, in whatever way most efficient. We'll resume research into the Moscow when we finish.

A reminder to the UNEC heads (and I guess deputes, too) that you can declare a :siren:

Priority Research Goal :siren:

to shift a minimum of 5 labs to a project of your choice.

# ? May 14, 2012 02:25

bgreman: Oct 8, 2005; ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES

I had fully intended to do an update today from work, but forgot to copy the latest save to my work computer. Instead, I'll do a bonus informational update on some of the lesser-used screens in the game, as well as the various System Map controls.

When I do update, the narrative will indicate that negotiations are ongoing between the UN and Federation, until I get a firm response from Ceebees.

# ? May 14, 2012 19:48

Ceebees: Nov 2, 2011; I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

I'd kinda prefer to not unilaterally decide the treaty terms, so...

From: Ambassador CMDR Ceebees
To: UNEC
The Outer Systems Treaty is effectively complete except for a term of lease. In the interests of not potentially having our colony invaded by the Federation mystery ship, can the council vote on that? I think Ynkling suggested a 15-year (20% payment) term.

By the by, who's on the council now, anyway?

# ? May 14, 2012 20:36

Ynkling: Mar 22, 2012; For these reasons I vote for granting UN membership to our moon.

There's no handy list on the first page of the UNEC people, which is a strange oversight. This is from page 19, listing the departments and their respective UNEC head:

bgreman posted:

Through light RP, various departments in the UN have been established:

UNIN: United Nations Interplanetary Navy (Naval Forces, UNEC Overseer: Lord Windy)

UNSA: United Nations Science Administration (Research, UNEC Overseer: Ynkling)

UNCAO: United Nations Civil Administration Office (Civil Administrators and colony governance)

UNDOT: United Nations Department of Transportation (Commercial shipping, UNEC Overseer: DagPenge)

UNIEB: United Nations Industrial and Economic Board (Industry, UNEC Overseer: jimmy4400nav

UNRA: United Nations Resource Acquisition (Mining, UNEC Overseer: Puistokemisti)

# ? May 14, 2012 20:43

bgreman: Oct 8, 2005; ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES

Ynkling posted:

There's no handy list on the first page of the UNEC people, which is a strange oversight. This is from page 19, listing the departments and their respective UNEC head:

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll add that list to the front page right away.

# ? May 14, 2012 20:48

Lord Windy: Mar 26, 2010

Ceebees posted:

I'd kinda prefer to not unilaterally decide the treaty terms, so...

From: Ambassador CMDR Ceebees
To: UNEC
The Outer Systems Treaty is effectively complete except for a term of lease. In the interests of not potentially having our colony invaded by the Federation mystery ship, can the council vote on that? I think Ynkling suggested a 15-year (20% payment) term.

By the by, who's on the council now, anyway?

I vote for a 15 year lease. Hopefully by 15 years we can discuss a new lease on similar terms.

As for Mars, we all know my plan. I'm interested in seeing other peoples alternatives if my plan of an independent mars isn't ideal. Perhaps Ceebees can make an alternative.

# ? May 14, 2012 23:15

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Lord Windy posted:

I vote for a 15 year lease. Hopefully by 15 years we can discuss a new lease on similar terms.

As for Mars, we all know my plan. I'm interested in seeing other peoples alternatives if my plan of an independent mars isn't ideal. Perhaps Ceebees can make an alternative.

Ideally, I say we stop giving so many concessions to the Eurasian Federation. So far we've basically be rolling over the second they start to sabre rattle. While I realize that war is not a good thing, we have to realize that the Federation is not suicidal, they don't want to start a war with us either. I was against us conceding the Saturn satellites to begin with, it doesn't matter that the Federation got pictures of them first, if we go by that logic, then we get the whole universe since we had the Hubble Telescope take pictures years before. If they try to say Russia had the first man in space, remind them that the Soviet Union is not a sovereign state anymore. The point is I feel we've been to generous with the Federation when we don't need to be. We've demonstrated that we can colonize worlds before the Federation, if they decided to focus on weapons rather than colonization efforts, then tough nuts. If they want to try and intimidate us with weapons equipped space ships, then I say we shoot them out of they sky with our space ICBMs if they try actually threatening our colonies. We're at least a year out from our own space warships, but even then we're capable to some defense, the Eurasian Federation has no real advantages. If they're actually stupid enough to start a shooting war, then they might have the skies for a couple months, but then we can pump out our own corvettes. Meanwhile, we'll have at least one TNE battalion, which can be masterful for defense.

I again do want us to be diplomatic, but we need to be tougher. I think that instead of partitioning up the solar system, we say that the person who colonizes a orbiting body first get sovereignty over it. We can apply it to the solar system and the rest of the galaxy. If we want pretty boarders we can negotiate and trade colonies. But we cannot be intimidated by the Federation.

I'm not unreasonable though, I understand that gas giants can have lots of valuable moons, perhaps control of a gas giant system can be determined by who controls the most moons in the system. A normal planet and it's satellites can be determined by who controls the planet. If the Federation can recognize this and some of our other points, then I don't see as much of a problem giving them the Saturn system.

As for an independent Mars...No, just no. We are at a point in humanity's time that we need to be united, the last thing we want to do is start balkainizing the second we reach space. If we give Mars independence, then people from both entities will colonize it, how long do you think it will be until there is suddenly a "crisis" and Federation "peacekeepers" enter Mars and then the people hold a "plebiscite" and decide to join the Eurasian Federation. And assuming that doesn't happen, do we want to give every world independence,, even if the Federation doesn't try to strong arm their way into control, there's a good chance that we are not along in this universe, what if first contact is hostile? Do we want a lose conglomeration of world facing off against an alien menace, or should we have a united, or at least semi- united humanity standing against it.

I propose that we negotiation the following points with the Federation:

-That Sovereignty over a world is by who first established a colony on it, not by first picture;
-We can share the Mar's ruins information, in return if they share any wormhole locations they might discover in the solar system;
-Control of a gas giant system is determined by which faction controls the most moons;
-Control of a Star System is determined by who controls most of the systems and planets in a star system (Except the Sol system). If this occurs, then I feel we'll have to come to some agreements about military presences in a system that both governments have a presences in;
-With the exception of the Mars ruins, a government doesn't have to share info gained from another system, but if they do the other side will pay a large monetary amount to gain the information;
-I do agree with the eventual goal of demilitarizing Earth, we should definitely be talking with the Federation about this.
-Lets open up more trade with the Federation, trade is the best positive diplomacy, and the best deterrent of war;
-Lets see if we can jointly develop a missile shield, neither one of us want to be nuked;
-An extremely ambitious negotiation point Once we discover ways to go beyond the solar system, lets see if we can jointly explore new solar systems, that way we don't get too ambitious and cutthroat with exploration and information about exploration

Windy, I love that our military leader is the most against going to war, we need that from our military commanders. I feel that some measures are a bit too much like appeasement, but definitely keep up the peace rhetoric, we need it. However, we need to make sure we don't just give in too much in the name of peace.

Everyone, sorry for the long post, but I love role playing in politics games, It's so much for fun for me :suicide:

# ? May 15, 2012 07:35

Lord Windy: Mar 26, 2010

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Ideally, I say we stop giving so many concessions to the Eurasian Federation. So far we've basically be rolling over the second they start to sabre rattle. While I realize that war is not a good thing, we have to realize that the Federation is not suicidal, they don't want to start a war with us either. I was against us conceding the Saturn satellites to begin with, it doesn't matter that the Federation got pictures of them first, if we go by that logic, then we get the whole universe since we had the Hubble Telescope take pictures years before. If they try to say Russia had the first man in space, remind them that the Soviet Union is not a sovereign state anymore. The point is I feel we've been to generous with the Federation when we don't need to be. We've demonstrated that we can colonize worlds before the Federation, if they decided to focus on weapons rather than colonization efforts, then tough nuts. If they want to try and intimidate us with weapons equipped space ships, then I say we shoot them out of they sky with our space ICBMs if they try actually threatening our colonies. We're at least a year out from our own space warships, but even then we're capable to some defense, the Eurasian Federation has no real advantages. If they're actually stupid enough to start a shooting war, then they might have the skies for a couple months, but then we can pump out our own corvettes. Meanwhile, we'll have at least one TNE battalion, which can be masterful for defense.

I again do want us to be diplomatic, but we need to be tougher. I think that instead of partitioning up the solar system, we say that the person who colonizes a orbiting body first get sovereignty over it. We can apply it to the solar system and the rest of the galaxy. If we want pretty boarders we can negotiate and trade colonies. But we cannot be intimidated by the Federation.

I'm not unreasonable though, I understand that gas giants can have lots of valuable moons, perhaps control of a gas giant system can be determined by who controls the most moons in the system. A normal planet and it's satellites can be determined by who controls the planet. If the Federation can recognize this and some of our other points, then I don't see as much of a problem giving them the Saturn system.

There are some really good points here and most I agree with. I particularly like the parallels between the Hubble Telescope and their photo ops.

And this is where my point of view really comes in. I see one of the leading causes of original cold war to be caused by a breakdown of communication and a strong fear of each other. Coupled with intractability and an unwillingness to compromise and empathise due to pride from both sides deepened the issue until we ended up with a winner due to economic collapse.

There were issues with communication everywhere. Olympics boycotted, politics exported to countries regardless of what was best for those counties, polarization of populations and ideology and arms races. I don't want to see the same tit for tat to start again. I don't want to live in fear of nuclear retaliation because we can't work together and share.

And yes, my methods are very similar to the 'Sunshine Policy' towards North Korea and the appeasements towards Hitler. They might even lead towards the same outcomes. But it is my desire that if we can be reasonable towards and look less jingoistic than we used to, than we might have a shot of a future where our relationship towards eachother is more like America towards the EU than the USSR vs The West part 2.

So I hope you can all see my vision a little more clearly now. I also hope you can temper it and point out where I might be rolling over a little too much. At the same time, I would like nothing more than if you can all take a genuine interest in ensuring that World War 3 never happens and moving towards a solar system where Humans live in total harmony.

Jimmy4400nav posted:

As for an independent Mars...No, just no. We are at a point in humanity's time that we need to be united, the last thing we want to do is start balkainizing the second we reach space. If we give Mars independence, then people from both entities will colonize it, how long do you think it will be until there is suddenly a "crisis" and Federation "peacekeepers" enter Mars and then the people hold a "plebiscite" and decide to join the Eurasian Federation. And assuming that doesn't happen, do we want to give every world independence,, even if the Federation doesn't try to strong arm their way into control, there's a good chance that we are not along in this universe, what if first contact is hostile? Do we want a lose conglomeration of world facing off against an alien menace, or should we have a united, or at least semi- united humanity standing against it.

I suffer quite badly from not explaining myself properly or even at all sometimes.

The reason I want to give Mars independence is because I want to give the two parties both a way to communicate between each other and something to work towards. Nothing builds trust like a joint project where two sides have something to gain.

I certainly don't think should be an only one time thing. It would be my desire to look at joint research projects, joint universal exploration and possibly even a real drive to share important discoveries with each other. Find new planets to work together with as well, and build peace that way.

Finally, I don't intend Mars to fall to either side, it should be given full access to a proper military and made sure it's government is fully independent lest either side attempt cheat each other.

I know this isn't really addressing your core complaints, but I hope a proper explanation might explain my reasoning

Jimmy4400nav posted:

I propose that we negotiation the following points with the Federation:

-That Sovereignty over a world is by who first established a colony on it, not by first picture;
-We can share the Mar's ruins information, in return if they share any wormhole locations they might discover in the solar system;
-Control of a gas giant system is determined by which faction controls the most moons;
-Control of a Star System is determined by who controls most of the systems and planets in a star system (Except the Sol system). If this occurs, then I feel we'll have to come to some agreements about military presences in a system that both governments have a presences in;
-With the exception of the Mars ruins, ~~a government doesn't have to share info gained from another system, but if they do the other side will pay a large monetary amount to gain the information;~~ Possible correction, Governments should share important information with eachother. Particularly things like new ruins being discovered or other important information. But the finding nation has first right to explore and while all cultural discoveries are to be shared, scientific discoveries don't have to be
-I do agree with the eventual goal of demilitarizing Earth, we should definitely be talking with the Federation about this.
-Lets open up more trade with the Federation, trade is the best positive diplomacy, and the best deterrent of war;
-Lets see if we can jointly develop a missile shield, neither one of us want to be nuked;
-An extremely ambitious negotiation point Once we discover ways to go beyond the solar system, lets see if we can jointly explore new solar systems, that way we don't get too ambitious and cutthroat with exploration and information about exploration

I like the tone of the majority of this agreement, and I made a small adjustment to one point I like.

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Windy, I love that our military leader is the most against going to war, we need that from our military commanders. I feel that some measures are a bit too much like appeasement, but definitely keep up the peace rhetoric, we need it. However, we need to make sure we don't just give in too much in the name of peace.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I know it's a little odd that the War Leader is the biggest peacenik. Please always feel free to question me on anything that you feel slips to far from 'in the name of peace' to 'appeasement most foul'. Everyone needs constructive criticism.

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Everyone, sorry for the long post, but I love role playing in politics games, It's so much for fun for me

This whole game was designed around the purpose of making stories (I think Steve even mentioned it somewhere as well). I think it's important that we do role play somewhat, otherwise we'll just be watching numbers go up.

# ? May 15, 2012 11:22

DagPenge: Jun 4, 2011; Looks like our civilians are fine, thank god for the capitalist spirit!

What Lord Windy and Jimmy4400nav is posting above, was what I was trying to say earlier on. I agree with the proposal that Jimmy4400nav made with the modifications made by Lord Windy.

Maybe this is a good time to start talking about our future goals as well, we aren't that far off going to Mars, we have plenty of ships and the ability to colonize whatever we want. Our mass drivers are either online or they will be shortly and I think we have some automated mines too.

What do we want to do with all this? Should the mines go to Venus along with a mass driver? What about warships? how many do we want and with what kind of weapons?

# ? May 15, 2012 11:34

Iunnrais: Jul 25, 2007; It's gaelic.

I am in support of the Saturnian Treaty (a better name than Outer Space Treaty, in my opinion) merely for the sake that they may have immediate armed forces there. I definitely support (and prefer) a treaty that emphasizes the need for having a preexisting colony in order to claim turf.

Again, I would like to propose specifying that you need more than mere infrastructure, you need infrastructure and a significant population base, namely, at least 10,000 people.

# ? May 15, 2012 18:09

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Lord Windy posted:

And this is where my point of view really comes in. I see one of the leading causes of original cold war to be caused by a breakdown of communication and a strong fear of each other. Coupled with intractability and an unwillingness to compromise and empathize due to pride from both sides deepened the issue until we ended up with a winner due to economic collapse.

There were issues with communication everywhere. Olympics boycotted, politics exported to countries regardless of what was best for those counties, polarization of populations and ideology and arms races. I don't want to see the same tit for tat to start again. I don't want to live in fear of nuclear retaliation because we can't work together and share.

And yes, my methods are very similar to the 'Sunshine Policy' towards North Korea and the appeasements towards Hitler. They might even lead towards the same outcomes. But it is my desire that if we can be reasonable towards and look less jingoistic than we used to, than we might have a shot of a future where our relationship towards each other is more like America towards the EU than the USSR vs The West part 2.

So I hope you can all see my vision a little more clearly now. I also hope you can temper it and point out where I might be rolling over a little too much. At the same time, I would like nothing more than if you can all take a genuine interest in ensuring that World War 3 never happens and moving towards a solar system where Humans live in total harmony.

Right, definitely. we need peace in the solar system for sure. I also agree that negotiation with the Federation is paramount to ensuring peace stays in our time. We just have to be sure that the Federation is coming to the table and willing to offer up things or agree with some things before we just start handing them stuff. One of the biggest failures of the Sunshine Policy and appeasement was that basically it was giving aggressors things they wanted without any real conditions. Hitler just had to pinkie promise he wouldn't start any war, and with the Sunshine Policy, the North didn't have to change any of their horribly abusive human rights practices, suspend nuclear tests or really give anything to get the aid the south, they just basically had to promise to no have any military provocation, and even then they broke that agreement when some Northern patrol boats blew up a Southern patrol boat, and the regime used the monetary aid to continue to prop up its corrupt existence.

I'm not criticizing the peace process or our desire for peace again, I'm just saying that in order to make sure we get along with a hostile super power in the long run, we have to make sure they're willing to give us some things in exchange for us giving them some things.

Lord Windy posted:

I suffer quite badly from not explaining myself properly or even at all sometimes.

The reason I want to give Mars independence is because I want to give the two parties both a way to communicate between each other and something to work towards. Nothing builds trust like a joint project where two sides have something to gain.

I certainly don't think should be an only one time thing. It would be my desire to look at joint research projects, joint universal exploration and possibly even a real drive to share important discoveries with each other. Find new planets to work together with as well, and build peace that way.

I agree with this, joint projects are a great way to build relations, that why I want to make sure that when we begin extra solar colonization and exploration we're working jointly, this will not only will we build better relations, we both will benefit from information gained.

Lord Windy posted:

Finally, I don't intend Mars to fall to either side, it should be given full access to a proper military and made sure it's government is fully independent lest either side attempt cheat each other.

I know this isn't really addressing your core complaints, but I hope a proper explanation might explain my reasoning

Again I don't quite agree with a fully independent Mars, but I'm willing to cross this bridge when we get to it

Lord Windy posted:

I like the tone of the majority of this agreement, and I made a small adjustment to one point I like.

I like this edit, I think it will be mutually beneficial for both sides.

Lord Windy posted:

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I know it's a little odd that the War Leader is the biggest peacenik. Please always feel free to question me on anything that you feel slips to far from 'in the name of peace' to 'appeasement most foul'. Everyone needs constructive criticism.

Awesome, just be sure to reign me in if I'm getting too militaristic and jingoistic.

Iunnrais posted:

Again, I would like to propose specifying that you need more than mere infrastructure, you need infrastructure and a significant population base, namely, at least 10,000 people.

I can agree with this, that way actual colonies develop and not a bunch of small bases that exist solely to put a flag on some system. I'm totally onboard with this amendment to our treaty.

# ? May 15, 2012 19:40

SPERMCUBE.ORG: Nov 3, 2011; Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Again I don't quite agree with a fully independent Mars, but I'm willing to cross this bridge when we get to it

I agree with this. Right now the proposal is sacrificing sole control of Mars in exchange for nothing at a time when our resources are already stretched thin. I'm not opposed to a peace planet in principle but at this point I think we need to focus on expanding our mining and industry rather than making political deals that gain us nothing in the short-term. And Mars is very valuable because of its proximity to earth. But, like I said, I'm not opposed to it in principle (and even think it's a good idea) so what if we postponed the whole idea for a bit. Instead of Mars it could be an extrasolar colony somewhere down the road.

I would also like to propose a medium-term goal I like to call The Get Our Shipyards the gently caress Away from Earth Plan. In this plan we ultimately get our shipyards the gently caress outta here just in case. Maybe to Mars or something?

# ? May 15, 2012 20:56

Ynkling: Mar 22, 2012; For these reasons I vote for granting UN membership to our moon.

The Get Our Shipyards the gently caress Away from Earth Plan is likely part of the Feds' reasoning behind the Saturnian Treaty.

I, for one, am 100% opposed to an independent Mars, and am furthermore opposed to any future colonies seceding from the UN. An independent Mars necessarily sets up the stage for the balkanization of humanity in space - if one colony can become independent, then all colonies will strive for independence. Once our Meson PDCs are under construction and our Engineer Brigades en route to Mars, we'll likely be able to claim Mars all for ourselves while giving away some research. Anything less than claiming the red planet would be a mismanagement of political capital.

# ? May 15, 2012 21:17

Ceebees: Nov 2, 2011; I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

Sorry.

Anyway, for the sake of clarification, these additional points:

That Sovereignty over a world is by who first established a colony on it, with a minimum stable population of no less than 10,000, and not by first discovery or landing;
We can share the Mars ruins' information, in return if they share any wormhole locations they might discover in the solar system;
Control of a gas giant system is determined by which faction controls the most moons;
Control of a Star System is determined by who controls most of the systems and planets in a star system (Except the Sol system). If this occurs, then I feel we'll have to come to some agreements about military presences in a system that both governments have a presences in.
Governments should share important information with each other. Particularly things like new ruins being discovered or other important information. But the finding nation has first right to explore and while all cultural discoveries are to be shared, scientific discoveries don't have to be
I do agree with the eventual goal of demilitarizing Earth, we should definitely be talking with the Federation about this.
Lets open up more trade with the Federation, trade is the best positive diplomacy, and the best deterrent of war;
Lets see if we can jointly develop a missile shield, neither one of us want to be nuked.
An extremely ambitious negotiation point Once we discover ways to go beyond the solar system, lets see if we can jointly explore new solar systems, that way we don't get too ambitious and cutthroat with exploration and information about exploration.

Are they intended as an addition to the Saturnian treaty, or as a foundation for the Martian/Rules of Colonization treaty(s)?
Because if they're a new treaty, then the Saturnian one has 2 council votes for a 15-year term, and i'm tempted to call that good enough so we can move on to arguing about new issues.

(also, i was calling it the Outer Systems Treaty as a joke on the Outer Space Treaty.)

Ceebees fucked around with this message at 21:46 on May 15, 2012

# ? May 15, 2012 21:31

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Ceebees posted:

Sorry.

Anyway, for the sake of clarification, these additional points:

That Sovereignty over a world is by who first established a colony on it, with a minimum stable population of no less than 10,000, and not by first discovery or landing;

We can share the Mars ruins' information, in return if they share any wormhole locations they might discover in the solar system;

Control of a gas giant system is determined by which faction controls the most moons;

Control of a Star System is determined by who controls most of the systems and planets in a star system (Except the Sol system). If this occurs, then I feel we'll have to come to some agreements about military presences in a system that both governments have a presences in.

Governments should share important information with each other. Particularly things like new ruins being discovered or other important information. But the finding nation has first right to explore and while all cultural discoveries are to be shared, scientific discoveries don't have to be

I do agree with the eventual goal of demilitarizing Earth, we should definitely be talking with the Federation about this.

Lets open up more trade with the Federation, trade is the best positive diplomacy, and the best deterrent of war;

Lets see if we can jointly develop a missile shield, neither one of us want to be nuked.

An extremely ambitious negotiation point Once we discover ways to go beyond the solar system, lets see if we can jointly explore new solar systems, that way we don't get too ambitious and cutthroat with exploration and information about exploration.

Are they intended as an addition to the Saturnian treaty, or as a foundation for the Martian/Rules of Colonization treaty(s)?
Because if they're a new treaty, then the Saturnian one has 2 council votes for a 15-year term, and i'm tempted to call that good enough so we can move on to arguing about new issues.

(also, i was calling it the Outer Systems Treaty as a joke on the Outer Space Treaty.)

This is probably for the Martian/ Rules of colonization treaty. The Saturnite treaty seems to be focused on a possible lease on the Saturn satalites, so those will probably be exceptions under our colonization rules assuming the federation accepts them.

# ? May 15, 2012 22:30

Lord Windy: Mar 26, 2010

I do have one question, have we finished surveying the Saturn system? I'd strongly recommend us finishing that first as well before we sign any agreement. Just want to make sure there is nothing the Russians are hiding.

# ? May 15, 2012 23:18

bgreman: Oct 8, 2005; ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES

Lord Windy posted:

I do have one question, have we finished surveying the Saturn system? I'd strongly recommend us finishing that first as well before we sign any agreement. Just want to make sure there is nothing the Russians are hiding.

The UNS Panner finished its geological survey of the Saturn system some time ago, and has moved on to Uranus.

# ? May 15, 2012 23:22

Iunnrais: Jul 25, 2007; It's gaelic.

What did we learn about the Saturn system? Compared to Jupiter, in specific.

# ? May 15, 2012 23:30

bgreman: Oct 8, 2005; ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES

From: UNGS
To: Mr. Iunnrais
Re: Jupiter and Saturn Geological Surveys

Only four of the Galilean moons were surveyed (by the Prospector survey probes): Ganymede, Callisto, Europa, and Io, as well as Jupiter itself. Only Callisto had any minerals:

Callisto

UNS Panner surveyed everything in the Saturn system. Epimetheus, Mimas, Titan, and Iapetus have minerals:

Epimetheus

Mimas

Titan

Iapetus

I also need to know exactly which PDC design you want the components researched for, Ynkling, Lord Windy's original one, or SPERMCUBE.ORG's.

# ? May 15, 2012 23:48

Ynkling: Mar 22, 2012; For these reasons I vote for granting UN membership to our moon.

SPERMCUBE.ORG's revised PDC with sensors:

SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:

M28 Poltergeist 100MM Meson Cannon Anti-Missile Turret

Damage Output 1x1 Rate of Fire: 15 seconds Range Modifier: 1.5
Max Range 15,000 km Turret Size: 4.2 SPW: 4.2 Turret HTK: 1
Power Requirement: 3 Power Recharge per 5 Secs: 1
Cost: 9 Crew: 30
Maximum Tracking Speed: 5000km/s
Materials Required: 6.6x Duranium 0.6x Corbomite 1.8x Corundium

Development Cost for Project: 90RP

There that makes it a bit smaller. Here's a redesign of the whole thing to incorporate Veloxyll's sensors and another fire control.
code:
MCB-4 class Missile Defence Base    2,150 tons     233 Crew     162 BP      TCS 43  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-14     Sensors 1/30     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 16.8

M28 Poltergeist 100MM Meson Cannon Anti-Missile Turret (4x1)
Range 15,000km     TS: 5000 km/s     Power 3-1     RM 1.5    ROF 15
1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
UN/PVB-8 Picket Close Defense Meson Fire Control (2)    Max Range: 60,000 km TS: 5000 km/s
83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
Pressurised Water Reactor PB-1 (4)     Total Power Output 4    Armour 0    Exp 5%

UN/SGS-1 Warbler missile warning sensor (1)     GPS 30     Range 1.5m km    Resolution 1

# ? May 16, 2012 00:00

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Quick question, how re you guys designing stuff, is there an aurora ship designer I can download, or something. I see all these cool ideas being made and I want to chip in.

# ? May 16, 2012 01:06

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Quick question, how re you guys designing stuff, is there an aurora ship designer I can download, or something. I see all these cool ideas being made and I want to chip in.

Aurora is free, I suspect they just used that.

# ? May 16, 2012 01:13

Iunnrais: Jul 25, 2007; It's gaelic.

For quicker reference, I summed up the amounts on each of Saturn's moons and dropped it in this chart.

code:

		Jupiter	  Saturn    Difference

Duranium: 	411,338	  440,711   - 29,373
Neutronium:	 34,926	   78,387   - 43,461
Tritanium:	 20,773	   23,421   -  2,648
Boronide:             0    32,658   - 32,658
Mercassium:	 81,770	   46,440   + 35,330
Uridium:              0   230,710   -230,710
Corundium:            0   190,372   -190,372
Vendarite:	 42,717	        0   + 42,717
Sorium:		 59,868	        0   + 59,868
Gallicite:	 83,892	   28,674   + 55,218

Total:		735,284 1,071,373   -336,089
(assuming equal worth)

I believe we only have mines on Mimas and Titan, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

We would want, in a perfect world, to mine at least 336,089 units from these two mines in order to come out even in a purely numerical sense, assuming all minerals equal. But all minerals are not equal. Here's a reminder of what the minerals do [edit, added all of them, highlighting the ones we lack in Jupiter]:

Duranium. Most common ore and used to build factories, mines and ship structures.
Neutronium. Very dense material used for shipyards, advanced armors and kinetic weapons such as railguns or orbital bombardment systems.
Corbomite. Used for advanced shields, stealth systems and electronic warfare systems.
Tritanium. The primary material used in many missile technologies and in the construction of ordnance factories.
Boronide. The primary material used in the construction of power systems and capacitors and also for the creation of Terraforming facilities.
Sorium. Used for construction of jump drives and jump gates. Also refined by fuel refineries to produce fuel.
Uridium. Used in sensors and fire control systems.
Corundium. The primary material used in almost all energy weapons as well as mining installations.
Mercassium. Used for Research Facilities, life support systems and tractor beams.
Vendarite. Used in the construction of fighters, fighter factories and fighter bases.
Gallicite. Used in the construction of engines, including missile and fighter engines.

Now, all three of these minerals are available on Titan. Of them, Boronide and Corundium are most valuable (in my humble estimation). Corundium can be mined fairly easily, but the Boronide and Uridium are hard to get at. And we will want to suck Titan as dry as possible before relinquishing her.

Mimas, by comparison, offers only what we have plenty of already.

With all this data, I propose we offer, as part of the Saturnian treaty, that we relinquish Mimas within 5 years (we have plenty of Duranium) or even sooner, IN EXCHANGE for a longer term on Titan. 30 years? 40? 50? Titan is key.

Edit Again: Can we get the mining screen, specifically the one that has the "Years to Depletion" index, for Titan?

Iunnrais fucked around with this message at 04:06 on May 16, 2012

# ? May 16, 2012 01:21

Ceebees: Nov 2, 2011; I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

Iunnrais posted:

I believe we only have mines on Mimas and Titan, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

A megacorp smacked down a colony on Iapetus whilst we were negotiating.

# ? May 16, 2012 03:12

SPERMCUBE.ORG: Nov 3, 2011; Space commies are th' biggest threat t' red-blooded American Freedom we got in th' future. So me and my boys got to talking over a few hot dogs the other day and this is what we came up with...

Iunnrais posted:

Edit Again: Can we get the mining screen, specifically the one that has the "Years to Depletion" index, for Titan?

I don't think we're purchasing minerals from Titan in which case it won't tell us the years to depletion. Plus that the Titan mining company will periodically add more mining complexes means that the resources will be exhausted much sooner than any estimates.

I wouldn't worry about getting our piece of Saturn's moons before our lease is up. What was the lease going to be again? Fifteen years? That's a long time. And don't worry about the payment on the lease either. The Federation may think they're getting easy money but I'm sure circumstances will favor us in the future.

# ? May 16, 2012 03:14

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Lord Windy posted:

And yes, my methods are very similar to the 'Sunshine Policy' towards North Korea and the appeasements towards Hitler. They might even lead towards the same outcomes. But it is my desire that if we can be reasonable towards and look less jingoistic than we used to, than we might have a shot of a future where our relationship towards eachother is more like America towards the EU than the USSR vs The West part 2.

So I hope you can all see my vision a little more clearly now. I also hope you can temper it and point out where I might be rolling over a little too much. At the same time, I would like nothing more than if you can all take a genuine interest in ensuring that World War 3 never happens and moving towards a solar system where Humans live in total harmony.

Finally, I don't intend Mars to fall to either side, it should be given full access to a proper military and made sure it's government is fully independent lest either side attempt cheat each other.

Dear rest of the council,

Please fire the current UNIN secretary, I feel s/he is a peace-loving hippie and not nearly balls-to-the-wall crazy enough.

Sincerly, UNCA Farecoal

P.S. gently caress the commies

Veloxyll posted:

Randomised. And yup. the EAF is trying to demand. I'm actually against establishing full planetary control of any assets from Earth. If the EAF wants to establish a full colony on Mars, we won't stop them. Why, exactly, should we be carving up space into little national pockets?

Commies = bad

Farecoal fucked around with this message at 05:29 on May 16, 2012

# ? May 16, 2012 03:48

Iunnrais: Jul 25, 2007; It's gaelic.

Ceebees posted:

A megacorp smacked down a colony on Iapetus whilst we were negotiating.

In which case, we could offer to drop Mimas immediately, keep Iapetus for 5 or 10 years, and Titan for as long as we can possibly stand.

# ? May 16, 2012 04:09

Lord Windy: Mar 26, 2010

Farecoal posted:

Dear rest of the council,

Please fire the current UNIN secretary, I feel s/he is a peace-loving hippie and not nearly balls-to-the-wall crazy enough.

Sincerly, UNCA Farecoal

P.S. gently caress the commies

Dear Mr. Farecoal

I'm writing to inform you that I have pointed no less than 12 ICBMs at your house. If your insistence on my dismissal does not stop I would be required to launch them.

I know how fond your are of your things!

With Love,

Lord Windy,
Director of Defence and Procurement

PS.

If I ever I get you in Secret Santa, I'm going to make sure you get coal!

Lord Windy fucked around with this message at 04:51 on May 16, 2012

# ? May 16, 2012 04:10

General Antares: Sep 5, 2011; There be corundium up in them thar asteroids!!!

See the problem here is that the commies aren't acting like the EU, ie making requests and being generally diplomatic, they're acting like the USSR, ie making demands and saber rattling.

# ? May 16, 2012 04:47

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

# ? May 16, 2012 04:48

Vander: Aug 16, 2004; I am my own hero.

Are the minerals of a celestial body randomized or the same for every game?

# ? May 16, 2012 04:57

Veloxyll: May 3, 2011; Fuck you say?!

Randomised. And yup. the EAF is trying to demand. I'm actually against establishing full planetary control of any assets from Earth. If the EAF wants to establish a full colony on Mars, we won't stop them. Why, exactly, should we be carving up space into little national pockets?

# ? May 16, 2012 05:12

Ceebees: Nov 2, 2011; I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

Veloxyll posted:

Why, exactly, should we be carving up space into little national pockets?

So that when we decide to blow them up, our targets will be labelled and color-coded?

Iunnrais posted:

In which case, we could offer to drop Mimas immediately, keep Iapetus for 5 or 10 years, and Titan for as long as we can possibly stand.

Last communication implied that we could keep bases on all three for a single, unified term. I'm tired of thinking about this, and there's a sort of tepid consensus for 15 years, so i'm going to formally accept a 15-year term tomorrow evening unless yelled at a lot between now and then.

Here's what i have, for yelling-at-me purposes:

The (provisional) Saturnian Treaty posted:

The FEAN reaffirms their claim on Saturn and its moons, out to 200m km.

The FEAN, in turn, willingly revokes their rights to Jupiter and its moons, of which exactly one is worth anything at all, out to 200m km.

A separate Martian ruins treaty will be discussed in the near future. The UN shall not excavate the Martian Ruins until these talks have concluded

The civilian mining colonies in the Saturn system shall be permitted to remain without undue harassment. This has the following strictures:

Someone shall explain to me exactly what constitues 'due' harrassment.

No United Nations civilians beyond those required to operate the mining complexes will be permitted to establish residence within the 200m km cordon.

No United Nations-flagged ship, military or commercial may approach within the 200m km cordon without activating its transponder and announcing its intentions. Any ship not obeying this directive shall be fired into after due warning has been given.

The United Nations shall lease the territory occupied by the civilian mining colonies on Titan, Mimas, and Iapetus from the Federation of European and Asian Nations for a period of 15 years. The UN shall remit 20% of the taxes collected from these operations to the Federation of European and Asian Nations as payment for said lease.

The mining colonies must not make any attempt to subvert our sovereignty over the Saturnian system.

The mining colonies must be dismantled or relocated by or before the end of the term of lease.

The mining colonies may not be used to station troops or warships. The existing garrison battalions may remain to provide order to the mining colonies. Any hostile act by these battalions toward Federation of European and Asian Nations citizens will be considered an act of war.

No new colonies may be established after the date of ratification of this agreement.

Both polities agree that further treaties shall be necessary to ensure the safety of the human population on Earth.

# ? May 16, 2012 09:24

Lynneth: Sep 13, 2011

I'd like to claim a scientist, obsessed with missiles/rockets, if an appropriate one ever appears. For science.

# ? May 16, 2012 21:14

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

If at all possible, can I claim a Naval Officer with a high Espionage skill?

# ? May 16, 2012 21:29

Ynkling: Mar 22, 2012; For these reasons I vote for granting UN membership to our moon.

Ceebees, you should remove "The UN shall not excavate the Martian Ruins until these talks have concluded" point from the Saturnian Treaty. That was simply a courtesy we were extending and has no place in the treaty. No need to unnecessarily hamper ourselves.

# ? May 16, 2012 21:32

bgreman: Oct 8, 2005; ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES

Lynneth posted:

I'd like to claim a scientist, obsessed with missiles/rockets, if an appropriate one ever appears. For science.

Pakled posted:

If at all possible, can I claim a Naval Officer with a high Espionage skill?

Leaders with specific stats can't be reserved. I've added Lynneth to the scientist waiting list, and Pakled to the active naval officers, but if you want to be removed, feel free to say so.

UN, 14th March 2028

As negotiations with the Federation continue, the UN's research and development efforts are turned toward the production of a ground-based weapons array utilizing meson-based directed energy weapons. Dr. Slaan is given the task of developing a practical meson weapon, and eventually a turreted version. Dr. MagicBoots and a team from Westinghouse begin implementation studies of a small nuclear reactor. Dr. Barrelfox continues his work on the "Warbler" missile detection system, while Dr. Scribbleykins picks up work on a beam fire control proposal by Thales.

UN, 26th March 2028

CMDR Galenus's superiors are impressed with the respect his subordinates give him. Elsewhere, CMRD Huseth prepares an extensive diplomatic database, increasing the efficacy of CMDR Ceebees embassy to the Federation, and yet another junior officer is promoted into the UNIN flag ranks.

UN, 26th March 2028, 2:07 UTC

From: UNIN Intelligence Office
To: UNEC
Re: Federation Contacts

Sirs, moments ago we lost contact with a second Federation Moskva-class vessel. It was making 1250 km/s toward Mars before it dropped off our sensors. Given the date of launch of the first Moskva, it would appear the Federation is able to construct and launch a Moskva-class every 70-80 days. Of course, we know nothing of their actual shipbuilding facilities, but this is a worrying development.

We also know next to nothing about the capabilities of the Moskva-class itself, other than its thermal signature and its speed, both of which we assume they --like us-- are keeping sub-maximum when in view of planetary sensor nets. We need an active sensor installation.

UN, 29th March 2028

CMDR Stokes and the UNS Panner discover a minor deposit of TNEs on Uranus's moon Oberon.

UN, 30th March 2028

Dr. Slaan quickly proves that the Bofors M28 100mm meson cannon is a valid and practicable weapon, and begins work on a turreted version. Dr. MagicBoots meanwhile finishes up work on the modular Westinghouse reactor, and resumes his work on the Raytheon "Wasp" interceptor missile.

Tranquility Police are called to the scene of a domestic disturbance, but no arrests are made.

UN, 5th April 2028

Dr. Slaan presents the UN's first entirely Trans-Newtonian weapon system: the M128 100mm Single-Mount Turreted Meson Cannon. Capable of firing once every 15 seconds at targets 15,000 km away and moving at 5000 km/s, the M128 is a formidable weapon. Dr. Slaan's labs are then divided between the sensor research of Drs. Barrelfox and Scribbleykins.

UN, 27th April 2028

Drs. Scribbleykins and MagicBoots complete their research : the Thales UN/PVB-8 beam fire control for the MCB-4 PDC project, and the SIM-3A "Wasp" interceptor missile for the MOSCOW project. Dr. Scribbleykins resumes work on the UN/SGY-5 tracking sensor for MOSCOW, while MagicBoots begins work on the SSM-4A "Tomahawk" Anti-ship submunition.

Elsewhere, CMDR Morrow obtains excellent results while running a training simulation at his Missile Complex.

UN, 28th April 2028

Dr. Barrelfox completes his work on the UN/SGS-4 "Warbler" missile detection sensor. This design, originally slated for the MOSCOW project, has been co-opted for the MCB-4 PDC. As this was the last piece of the PDC design, it is now available for construction. Dr. Barrelfox resumes work on the UN/STY-6 thermal sensor.

Industry

As you can see, you can now build the MCB-4 PDC. (New names welcome). You can also begin building your anti-missile missile.

Mining
Earth

Tranquility

Callisto

Additionally, the civilians have begun shipping the automated mines to Venus.

Shipyards

Research

UN Colonies, 28th April, 2028

Venus and the CMCs can be assigned civilian administrators.

bgreman fucked around with this message at 00:17 on May 17, 2012

# ? May 17, 2012 00:07

Iunnrais: Jul 25, 2007; It's gaelic.

From: Grad-Student Iunnrais, UN Academy
To: UN Council
Re: Mineral Stockpiling

What say we start purchasing minerals from Titan and Iapetus?

# ? May 17, 2012 00:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 08:03

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

If we want to move our shipyards to safety, why not move them to the Moon? Of course, we'd need tractor beam technology, but in any fight between the Feds and us the shipyards on both sides are sitting ducks.

# ? May 17, 2012 01:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > The Coldest War: You Play Aurora!

«‹›458 »