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Police Automaton posted:Also I treated Christine nicely and seemed to get along well with her when I had her as companion, then when I entered the suites she loving hated me and I had to kill her. I guess that got decided by my evil karma, she mentioned me "seeing/approaching" things like Elijah. Still it seemed rather abrupt. This also might have happened in one of the conversational choices I made with her, but I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it checks NCR Rep? Wouldn't be the only time in the DLC it does that...
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May 16, 2012 22:56
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Thanks for all the quick replies! Welp, I think I'll be buying Honest Hearts, Old World Blues and Lonesome Road for sure. What Leinadi said about Dead Money being the best written has me re-thinking my imagined criticisms of it, though, so I'll give it another look. I had just read many things about it being linear but difficult to navigate and altogether frustrating. I figured it would be easy enough to skip, but I wasn't aware how interconnected the DLCs are in terms of story arc. So, I'm not sure. By far my biggest gripe with the modern Fallouts is issues with navigation in areas where the map doesn't help you all too much, and its usually exacerbated by the fact that these places tend be corridors that all look the same. To be honest, the whole "ghost people" thing seemed to be a bit of a turn-off for me, too. But I could be wrong, especially if it is supposedly the best written of the four.
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May 16, 2012 23:03
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Police Automaton posted:I absolutely loved this theme of the DLC for personal reasons, together with the heap of very valuable gold bars you can't really take with you without abusing the system. A fun addition would've been the personal lift into the vault crashing you to your death if you somehow manage to overload it with all those gold bars. But eh. quote:Also I treated Christine nicely and seemed to get along well with her when I had her as companion, then when I entered the suites she loving hated me and I had to kill her. I guess that got decided by my evil karma, she mentioned me "seeing/approaching" things like Elijah. Still it seemed rather abrupt. This also might have happened in one of the conversational choices I made with her, but I'm not entirely sure. I saved Christine though. I'm not sure what you did to annoy her. I presume not FORCING A CLAUSTROPHOBIC DOWN INTO A SMALL SPACE.
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May 16, 2012 23:03
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CommonSensei posted:Maybe it checks NCR Rep? Wouldn't be the only time in the DLC it does that... BoS rep, you mean? NCR rep would be weird.
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May 16, 2012 23:08
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GrickleGrass posted:I had just read many things about it being linear but difficult to navigate It's not difficult to navigate if you just wander around in the old fashioned way. The areas are fairly simple. It IS difficult to navigate if you expect to follow your quest arrow directly to where you need to be going because you don't travel on a direct line from A to B.
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May 16, 2012 23:16
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GrickleGrass posted:I had just read many things about it being linear but difficult to navigate and altogether frustrating. I figured it would be easy enough to skip, but I wasn't aware how interconnected the DLCs are in terms of story arc. That is definitely the problem - it's basically entirely linear, and yet still very difficult to navigate due to the death traps, complete uselessness of the map and the lack of many markers to tell you where you are. The ghost people were alright, but got a bit repetitive and boring after the fifth hour of killing basically the same thing with the same gun. I felt that the writing wasn't as good as OWB, but that said, it is sort of important for the story arc completeness.
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May 16, 2012 23:17
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Magic posted:Well with one of the other companions it's quite similar: If you're rude to Dean Domino when you first meet him then he WILL betray you in the theatre and you have to kill him. I decided to stand up for myself and was surprised that this alone determined the later actions. I was a dick to Dean all the time and had no qualms of putting a bullet into his head. To Christine I was nice though, and no I did not do that. I'm actually a member of the BoS and had even a conversation option with Christine because of that. Still, I'm siding with House on my current playthrough. (I planned to get power armor training and then cross the BoS) Outside of Dead Money I'm currently at the mission to blow up the BoS. Else I was a complete dick to people everywhere and just cared about the payment. I simply couldn't be a dick to Dog/Christine though. I'm actually thinking about switching sides from House away to the NCR and getting the "Ain't like that now" perk. It's pretty cool that the game lets me do that. (Even though I might have a shot getting my karma into the positive by myself before that) Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 23:17
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Saoshyant posted:BoS rep, you mean? NCR rep would be weird. I mean NCR Rep because (Dead Money end spoilers, I guess): As I recall, if NCR Rep is very low, the Courier has a dialogue option with Elijah at the end to team up and get a different ending... so I was guessing maybe they do that same check ahead of time to see if Christine thinks the Courier is too much like Elijah for her tastes.
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May 16, 2012 23:51
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Police Automaton posted:I was a dick to Dean all the time and had no qualms of putting a bullet into his head. I didn't have the option for a peaceful resolution, but with everything he did to Vera and Christine I didn't feel any pity for him.
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May 17, 2012 00:14
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I think I've read that Christine will hate you if you say that Elijah should be spared or reasoned with, regardless of how you treated her otherwise. I'm not positive, but that could be a factor. When it comes to DLC, I concur with most of the others and say you should try them all. I personally think Dead Money is the best of the four and Old World Blues is the worst, but I still think they should all be experienced, especially if you're a fan of the game. As someone else said, you can get them all for around $10 if you wait for a Steam sale. I agree with Leinadi about the order. Personally, I prefer to do Honest Hearts before even entering Vegas, Dead Money and Old World Blues whenever, and Lonesome Road right before the point-of-no-return.
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May 17, 2012 00:57
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CommonSensei posted:I mean NCR Rep because (Dead Money end spoilers, I guess): As I recall, if NCR Rep is very low, the Courier has a dialogue option with Elijah at the end to team up and get a different ending... so I was guessing maybe they do that same check ahead of time to see if Christine thinks the Courier is too much like Elijah for her tastes. That ending is so weird. Usually the 'early ending' stuff is because you hosed up in some way or just decided to take the coward's way out and the game kinda berates you for it or makes a joke of it (think Cave Story or Shadow Complex) but that ending has you becoming the unstoppable ruler of a hellish New Vegas alongside Elijah. Its actually way more badass of an ending for evil characters than the actual Hoover Dam endings, which are all "help Caesar/Oliver take over Vegas, then leave."
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May 17, 2012 00:59
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Kharmakazy posted:I was really impressed how that nightkin went hostile when I attacked his skull thing. I'm still not sure how that was coded. The little touches you notice are always the best. Try screwing with the jukebox in the King's room next time you are wandering around Freeside.
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May 17, 2012 01:23
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Rinkles posted:So how many gold bars did most people scrounge off the SM vault? I left them all there and trapped Elijah in the vault. Because of irony, that's why.  The trick to the Ghost People is just to give them a whack with a bladed weapon when they're down, so they end up being an annoyance more than anything. Navigating the dark streets is a pain too, it took me ages to follow a simple guide to find the snowglobe, because I ended getting lost and turned around. That, and the fact that healing items are hard to get, and you can't sleep in the beds during the outside bits add to the difficulty. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 17, 2012 02:41
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I loved Dead Money. All of it including the stupid killing cloud, the bear traps everywhere, the creepy Ghost People (an evolved life form with a culture of their own!), the plot, all characters (but Dog/God, shut up you rear end in a top hat), and even the radios/holograms. The main game was turning into an easy cake walk even with hardcore and a bunch of mods to make things harder, so I absolutely loved the DM experience. However, I would not do it again. This is not something you can repeat gladly.
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May 17, 2012 10:10
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Wolfsheim posted:That ending is so weird. Usually the 'early ending' stuff is because you hosed up in some way or just decided to take the coward's way out and the game kinda berates you for it or makes a joke of it (think Cave Story or Shadow Complex) but that ending has you becoming the unstoppable ruler of a hellish New Vegas alongside Elijah. Its actually way more badass of an ending for evil characters than the actual Hoover Dam endings, which are all "help Caesar/Oliver take over Vegas, then leave." http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Money_endings#Alternative_endings I also forgot about Vera's song. 
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May 17, 2012 14:59
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Saoshyant posted:I loved Dead Money. All of it including the stupid killing cloud, the bear traps everywhere, the creepy Ghost People (an evolved life form with a culture of their own!), the plot, all characters (but Dog/God, shut up you rear end in a top hat), and even the radios/holograms. The main game was turning into an easy cake walk even with hardcore and a bunch of mods to make things harder, so I absolutely loved the DM experience. However, I would not do it again. This is not something you can repeat gladly. This is what I liked about it too. I didn't know anything about DM beforehand, so I thought I could bring all my overpowered guns and armour and annihilate everything with no challenge, the way the rest of the game had become at that point. Then I start the DLC, and suddenly all I have is an energy weapon with limited ammo (soon replaced by a melee weapon, neither of which I had ever put any points into) against a bunch of enemies that won't stay dead. That moment when my  turned to  was the best part, it wouldn't be anywhere near as fun if I replayed it.
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May 17, 2012 17:56
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Mister Gutsy posted:This is what I liked about it too. I didn't know anything about DM beforehand, so I thought I could bring all my overpowered guns and armour and annihilate everything with no challenge, the way the rest of the game had become at that point. Exactly. This is why Dead Money is so polarizing. The whole point of DM was to pull players out of their comfort zone. The villa is twisty, confusing and impossible to navigate entirely by design. As to whether NV was actually a good pick of game/engine to attempt a survival horror story in is what's up for debate. In my opinion the engine isn't suited for it. The engine isn't suited for a lot of things.
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May 17, 2012 18:13
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Well since we're on the subject, I just finished Dead Money and I absolutely hated it. It was like every annoying game trope rolled into one. It felt like such a chore to play, while the other DLC's were a blast. The only DLC I have yet to complete is Lonesome Road, can I take items/companions into it or is it like Dead Money where you can bring anything in?
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May 17, 2012 18:59
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Maguro posted:Lonesome Road, can I take items/companions into it or is it like Dead Money where you can bring anything in? You can't take companions, but you can take whatever you want and keep going back and forth between the Mojave and the Divide (handy!).
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May 17, 2012 19:03
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Maguro posted:Dead Money... It felt like such a chore to play Could you elaborate on this a little? This is exactly what I'd imagined to expect from what I've read about Dead Money and was the thing keeping me skeptical about purchasing it. At this point I'll definitely be getting the other three, but I'm still not sold on Dead Money and if it's really that much of a chore to play I don't feel it will be worth it for me to slog through it just for the wee bits of dialogue, characters and such that fit into the arcing plot of the DLCs. I just feel like it won't be worth buying for me if I'll just want to burn through it once, never touch it again, and move on simply for the sake of saying I haven't missed a bit of exposition.
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May 17, 2012 19:16
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GrickleGrass posted:Could you elaborate on this a little? This is exactly what I'd imagined to expect from what I've read about Dead Money and was the thing keeping me skeptical about purchasing it. Don't let the naysayers let you miss the best DLC New Vegas has. Dead Money is loving awesome.
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May 17, 2012 19:24
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What's the bug where putting on faction armor screws up your rep? Am I being hit with that? I've been playing through with a Pro-NCR character and it seems like my rep with them keeps going back to neutral. I've been helping them out all game, as well as wearing goddamn Ranger Combat Armor and helmet for the past 10 or so levels, and the guy in charge of security detail for President Kimball's visit wouldn't even let me keep my gun out, let alone actively protect anything. The whole lead up conversation was laced with really goofy suspicious comments from him too. Yeah, I was added to the security team at the last minute, but I'm a goddamn hero! I should be running this thing!
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May 17, 2012 19:24
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GrickleGrass posted:Could you elaborate on this a little? This is exactly what I'd imagined to expect from what I've read about Dead Money and was the thing keeping me skeptical about purchasing it. If you go in at the wrong level, enemies are all annoying bullet sponges in an area where ammo is scarce. Not to mention you have to run up and whack a limb off after or they just get back up. Now fight these enemies in an environment where going the wrong way means insta-death. It's just annoying and not fun at all. Although at the end You get enough pre-war cash and gold bars to make money a literal non-issue for the rest of the game. Can't remember exactly, but I think it's something like 400,000 caps worth
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May 17, 2012 19:28
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GrickleGrass posted:Could you elaborate on this a little? This is exactly what I'd imagined to expect from what I've read about Dead Money and was the thing keeping me skeptical about purchasing it. From my experience on this thread, there are two types of people: People who hate Dead Money, and people who like Dead Money. If you hate Dead Money, it's because of a combination of the following:
2. The ghost people were a pain in the rear end because you couldn't simply kill them--you had to gib them to keep them from getting back up. 3. The speakers were everywhere, and not all of them were destructible. Standing next to speakers for too long would kill you, and prevented you from loitering in certain areas. 4. You didn't have your precious gear with you. On arrival, you temporarily lost your equipment, and everything you used had to be salvaged from the Dead Money DLC. 5. The exterior areas were poisonous and could eventually kill you in Hardcore mode, though it would take a while. If you liked Dead Money, it was probably because of a combination of the following:
2. The DLC had some of the best dialogue, characters and voice acting in the game. 3. Some people like Survival Horror games, and Dead Money's environment of "even the air wants to kill you" definitely drove home the Survival Horror elements. Personally, I liked Dead Money. I know a lot of people did, and a lot of people didn't. It's a very polarizing DLC. I get the impression that a lot of people didn't like getting stripped of their gear and put into a disadvantageous position where you couldn't simply barrel through obstacles with a rocket launcher. I'm willing to say that the only way people consistently got killed by speakers and traps was because they refused to stop running through the game like a goddamned idiot. It's definitely disingenuous to write off the characters and dialogue as "wee bits", however, and if you can get the DLC for 4 or 5 bucks, I'd encourage you to do it.
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May 17, 2012 19:29
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I'll chime in on Dead Money. Dead Money forces you to play slowly and take your time. There are a lot of traps everywhere (some of which are an instant kill) and you have to be very careful in how you advance through the somewhat confusing layout of the Villa. The enemies you fight will rise up again if you don't slice off a limb while they're on the ground. In situations where you're fighting multiple enemies at once you won't always get the chance to do it in time, which could be frustrating/annoying for some. Your equipment is removed when you enter so you have to scrounge around and make do with what you find, even if it means using skills you've been ignoring thus far. Really, the whole experience is very tense and kind of oppressive, and the entire place is out to get you. You have to watch your step. I found myself out of ammo quite often in Dead Money (at least in the beginning stages). The gameplay is slow and deliberate so some could find it a chore. I loved it. I would put it and OWB as the best two DLCs by far, and Dead Money is the better-written of the two (this is for sure debateable, though; they're both great). The story is hugely compelling, I thought, moreso than the main game (especially once you delve deeper into the background and development of the casino), the characters are fantastic and very well-written and the payoff is great. It also, as others said, ties in with OWB and then LR. For me, OWB was more of a slog to play (even though I loved it), but that's almost certainly because I did it at level 30 and the enemies were a pain in the rear end. That place murdered me a whole lot of times.
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May 17, 2012 19:35
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Smol posted:Don't let the naysayers let you miss the best DLC New Vegas has. Dead Money is loving awesome. I think the assumption I have is that the game mechanics and such will be such a detriment from the atmosphere and story that I won't be able to enjoy it for the things it does well. I love fallout and whatnot, but I'm the first to admit the combat is clunky, navigation isn't the best, and the things that really draw me in are the world, characters, themes and all the imagination ignited in my brain by immersing myself into the experience. I guess I have more fun writing the story of my character than actually playing it. And most of the enjoyment I have derived from all of the fallout games (even the older ones) has occurred in my imagination, and not really a result directly of something particular in the game. I think that is why I was anxious about Dead Money, as I had the feeling from what I've read about others experiences that the game play would be frustrating enough that I wouldn't derive any enjoyment from the story, atmosphere, etc. And by frustrating I don't mean difficult so much as not fun. Fun to me isn't breezing through enemies to get to the next dialogue segment, don't get me wrong, I still very much enjoy the combat in the fallout series. It's just that I've always considered myself more of a cerebral gamer as I've grown older I've found what really hooks me into games is the connection I feel to the world and how easily I can immerse myself into it.
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May 17, 2012 19:37
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Big help for Dead Money: You don't have to use anything in particular to take limbs off downed Ghost People. Ammo might be tight, but it's worth the one or two rounds versus all the loving around with re-equipping.
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May 17, 2012 19:39
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:2. The DLC had some of the best dialogue, characters and voice acting in the game. This is why Dead Money is probably my favorite of the DLC packs. I absolutely loved everything about the characters and their setting, and those are the things that wholly drew me into NV in the first place. Honest Hearts kind of annoyed me with its setting and Lonesome Road just bothered me as a concept, but Dead Money immersed me immediately and made me care about what was going on, even for characters who don't actually exist anymore. Though in all fairness, Old World Blues would probably have tracked a lot more with me had I not gotten to it so late in my game that the enemies were unfathomably annoying bullet sponges that sucked all the fun out of it.
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May 17, 2012 19:40
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GrickleGrass posted:...the things that really draw me in are the world, characters, themes and all the imagination ignited in my brain by immersing myself into the experience. Sounds like Dead Money would be right up your alley, to be honest, since the immersive atmosphere, compelling story (and backstory) and well-written characters are a huge, huge part of what makes it so good. Unless you really think you'd hate the slow, methodical gameplay, you should probably get it.
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May 17, 2012 19:43
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redmercer posted:Big help for Dead Money: You don't have to use anything in particular to take limbs off downed Ghost People. Ammo might be tight, but it's worth the one or two rounds versus all the loving around with re-equipping. Is it really loving around to bind a melee weapon to 3 and just attack a 'dead' ghost person's leg once or twice?
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May 17, 2012 19:44
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Just press your weapon key again, go bare-handed, and fist their legs off!
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May 17, 2012 19:55
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DemonNick posted:Is it really loving around to bind a melee weapon to 3 and just attack a 'dead' ghost person's leg once or twice? Oh, or get Dog in your party for a bit and let him eat a ghost person and talk to him about it afterwards. You'll get a perk that auto-dismembers people for you, rendering their regeneration mechanic null.
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May 17, 2012 19:59
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Yeah I had no problems with the ghost people or any of the enemies at all (even the "invincible" ones"). It was purely frustration with the level design combined with the exploding collar mechanic. Also I'm not playing hardcore but the gas killed me several times in the later part of the DLC just because of a glitch in the quicksave system that dropped me from "safe" areas, into the gas. Not fun.
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May 17, 2012 21:03
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:From my experience on this thread, there are two types of people: People who hate Dead Money, and people who like Dead Money. Fixed that for you. I liked DM, I just found some of the elements super annoying and have no desire to replay it.
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May 17, 2012 21:13
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Kharmakazy posted:Fixed that for you. Yeah, I think the final area was the only place I died due to speakers other than the first time they're introduced and I'm all "huh what's that pinging  ".That being said, however, I liked the actual casino a lot more than the outside area due to the lack of fog and it was more maneuverable, although to be fair I didn't play it in Hardcore mode.
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May 17, 2012 21:18
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I'm actually playing DM for the second time and it's a lot smoother and a lot less painful when you're prepared for what it throws at you. gently caress the bear traps crippling your legs though, allthough there's a perk against that. EDIT: Also a hint to actually not get lost all the time in the villa: ignore the quest marker on the compass, as it will often mislead you into walking into dead ends. Also ignore whatever the map navigation system brews up. Navigate yourself while looking at the map, every time you're at a corner that leads into different directions, ignore the quest marker and just look at the map to decide for a direction. You will get lost a lot less often this way. Ironically the spell that'd draw a line to your quest target in skyrim (which was completly useless in skyrim as everything was completly linear, including dungeons) would do wonders in New Vegas. Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 17, 2012 |
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May 17, 2012 21:25
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Although at the end You get enough pre-war cash and gold bars to make money a literal non-issue for the rest of the game. Can't remember exactly, but I think it's something like 400,000 caps worth Also regarding post-Dead Money, if you break the bank once you get the Sierra Madre powered up and have collected a ton of vending machine recipes, the machine at the Mojave end becomes a handy unlimited resource.
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May 17, 2012 21:25
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GrickleGrass posted:Could you elaborate on this a little? This is exactly what I'd imagined to expect from what I've read about Dead Money and was the thing keeping me skeptical about purchasing it. The frustrating things about Dead Money were in large part attempts to aid in the atmosphere. Not always successful, but it's clear what the designers were going for most of the time. So basically the more people explain and apologize for Dead Money's failings, the more you're losing what fun can be derived from said failings. What I'd say about it is that the story is incredible, and it's linked to the other non-Honest Hearts DLC, and that the gameplay is very different to fit the atmosphere and perhaps frustrating. I've read your concerns and still can't say if you'll like it or not. You know all that already, but that's all you should really go on, if you don't want to ruin the game by dissecting it before you even play it.
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May 17, 2012 21:41
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Is there a mod that stops enemies being annoying bullet sponges at higher levels? Been playing with Project Nevada, and while the changes to the armour/damage system are cool. It's goddamn annoying that when wearing medium armour some enemies can gun me down with barely any bullets, but they can shrug off many Material Rifle shots to the face. Despite a fully maintained gun and maxed gun skills, I may as well be chucking rocks at them. Hell, with all the talk of Dead Money, as much as I loved OWB, those goddamn Roboscorpions took waaaay too much ammo at higher levels.
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May 17, 2012 21:47
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Police Automaton posted:I'm actually playing DM for the second time and it's a lot smoother and a lot less painful when you're prepared for what it throws at you. gently caress the bear traps crippling your legs though, allthough there's a perk against that. Basically this regarding the map and whatnot. Of course, Elijah says it best when he speaks about how people will blindly follow map markers and all... Tells you where to go, dulls your brain... I loved that little jab at the hand-holding of RPGs today. 
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May 17, 2012 21:50
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