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I always thought God/Dog was interesting, in that he has the same schizophrenia suffered by all the other Nightkin, but it's the only instance in which it isn't played for laughs. I find it too convenient to literally permanently fix his severe mental disorder with a high speech check and some metaphor about water, though, and so I always resolve his situation by siding with God or killing him. Christine is great too, and her whole backstory with the Circle of Steel carries a lot of implications on what could be the future of the BoS actually taking an active role in the wastes and not just hoarding poo poo, basically exactly what Veronica was fighting so hard to achieve. Obviously Bethesda will ignore it for Fallout 4, but maybe they'll let Obsidian make another game later on that explores the concept 
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May 18, 2012 01:50
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Wolfsheim posted:Circle of Steel Is this OWB stuff or did I miss something? I'm playing through the DLCs for the first time and still have OWB and LR to finish.
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May 18, 2012 01:53
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El Disco posted:This is from waaaaaay back but here you go. Added for all future playthroughs. Thanks!
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May 18, 2012 02:44
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Also worth nothing about DM is that after you finish the storyline, you're free to explore the entire map (including the casino, I think? It's been awhile, so I'm not totally sure) without the bomb collar.
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May 18, 2012 02:55
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Has anyone else had crashing problems with jsawyer 4? Whenever I either walk close to or fast travel to one of the areas where one of the Courier's Stash kits is supposed to spawn I get a CTD. EDIT: I think the problem is that the it only places them at the beginning of each new game, so if you upgrade from v3 to v4 mid-game everything gets screwed up. jpmeyer fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 03:04
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Rinkles posted:Is this OWB stuff or did I miss something? I'm playing through the DLCs for the first time and still have OWB and LR to finish. You learn it in OWB.
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May 18, 2012 03:13
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The big problem with the holograms is that the emitters are generally hidden in places that make no sense whatsoever. You're told to stay out of range of the emitters to avoid them, but that is pure misinformation because a) the location of the emitter has no relevance whatsoever to the location of the hologram and b) the holograms don't actually have any limits on where they can/will go other than the normal ones all enemies have. The emitters should be clearly visible from any place the holograms can be; if there's any sort of obstruction between the emitter and a location, it obviously can't project a hologram there! And of course nearly all the emitters have solid matter between them and the holograms they control. It was just poorly thought-out and the emitters were placed based on where they'd be annoying to search for, not anything that would make even the least bit of sense. Also the whole "stand here and you die" radio mechanic was annoying, especially in that one spot where you basically have to run dead-out through several undestroyable radios' worth of space. Finally getting through that after trying five or six times- and failing not because there was any puzzle element but just because navigating through tight spaces at high speed in Gamebryo is an unholy pain in the rear end- wasn't any sort of victory but just a sigh and a thank god that's over with, now back to the game.
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May 18, 2012 04:11
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It's no secret that with all the work I did on The Armory and such that I still haven't finished FNV, but I did do all of DM and I have to say that the gameplay experience (but not the plot/characters of it) of it turned me off so much that I'm almost completely disinterested in playing the other DLC. Yes, it annoyed the gently caress out of me that much. I realize that Avellone was trying to for some kind of stupid horror movie theme and trying to get people to appreciate stimpacks again but every decision made to support these things were just endlessly irritating. Not hard, irritating. Taking all your poo poo away. Ghouls that don't die except by gibbing. Lack of ammo. God help you if you aren't a melee/energy weapon characters because those last two are made even worse. Lack of healing items. A stupid collar that explodes from music, complete with indestructible speakers. A very drab and uninspired villa with gas everywhere. Predictable traps, also everywhere. There was only one trap that got me in the entire DLC and it the only one that was cleverly placed (the shotgun pointing down on the staircase). Immortal holograms with AI as dumb as a rock and emitter placement that makes zero sense. On and on, it's just one irritation after another. It's not an actual challenge but just a chore in almost all of those cases. You know, after reading all that, it's absolutely astounding that I had the patience to finish the DLC at all. I guess I can credit them for making me interested enough in the story and the characters enough to slog through the crap decisions for the rest of it.
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May 18, 2012 04:27
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Naky posted:It's no secret that with all the work I did on The Armory and such that I still haven't finished FNV, but I did do all of DM and I have to say that the gameplay experience (but not the plot/characters of it) of it turned me off so much that I'm almost completely disinterested in playing the other DLC. Yes, it annoyed the gently caress out of me that much. You really should play the others. None of the problems you have with DM exist at all in any of the other DLCs.
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May 18, 2012 05:11
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Yeah, as much as I hated the gameplay elements of Dead Money, I really enjoyed the writing, and the other DLCs are all great. Lonesome Road does occasionally suffer from staring at ED-E while Ulysses jaws at you for what sometimes feels like forever.
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May 18, 2012 05:24
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I absolutely loved Dead Money. Despite all of the frustration resulting from the radios and the Holograms (Culminating in the bullshit-fest of the vault), the atmosphere was absolutely perfect. Having missed the .308 holotape in the police station I was almost entirely reliant on the police pistol, and even with that I had to pick and choose my battles. It's pretty much the only time playing New Vegas that I felt that every single round counted, especially when it came to deciding when to use the BAR. And when I found the Hunting Shotgun...  I'll agree that Dead Money isn't for everyone, but I would recommend that everyone try it. I think it takes a certain mindset to really enjoy it, but if you can get into it, it's probably one of the most enjoyable DLCs. If not... well, it could be worse. Plus, the BAR is badass.
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May 18, 2012 05:25
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Roobanguy posted:You learn it in OWB. It's not really addressed that well in the game though, since it's leftovers from VB. The only real trace of them I found in OWB was Christine's COS Sniper Rifle. Basically, according to Avellone, they're a small faction of hardliners within the Brotherhood who believe that the various chapters have drifted too far from the Brotherhood's initial mission. They believe that their duty is to ferret out and fight corruption, including megalomaniacs like Elijah.
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May 18, 2012 05:33
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Frankly, for all that I enjoyed F:NV itself, all of the DLCs had a fatal flaw that renders them considerably less than enjoyable. Dead Money: Horrid mechanics in pursuit of duplicating survival horror. Lonesome Road: After all the buildup, your nemesis is basically just nuts - there's no good reason for his obsession with you. Plus weirdness like the Marked Men and the aside about "Oh, these tunneler monsters I guess are going to devour the Mojave in a year or two or something." Honest Hearts: This one is pretty subjective, but I never felt like I cared about the story being presented. After playing through it once, every other time I dealt with it was just to immediately kill everyone I had to to get the quicker 'chaos in zion' way out and take the only thing worth keeping, the Burned Man's armor. Old World Blues: This one was the least objectionable. I could complain about the enemies literally spawning out of thin air next to you, but honestly, the worst part of OWB is the interminable, unskippable ending slides.
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May 18, 2012 05:52
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DemonNick posted:It's not really addressed that well in the game though, since it's leftovers from VB. The only real trace of them I found in OWB was Christine's COS Sniper Rifle. Basically, according to Avellone, they're a small faction of hardliners within the Brotherhood who believe that the various chapters have drifted too far from the Brotherhood's initial mission. They believe that their duty is to ferret out and fight corruption, including megalomaniacs like Elijah. Doesn't Christine briefly discuss that during the events of DM? I could of sworn that she touched on her background if you mentioned the BoS.
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May 18, 2012 11:18
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Strudel Man posted:Lonesome Road: After all the buildup, your nemesis is basically just nuts - there's no good reason for his obsession with you. Plus weirdness like the Marked Men and the aside about "Oh, these tunneler monsters I guess are going to devour the Mojave in a year or two or something." You made his home, and then you blew it up. I'd look into a guy for that. I liked the tunnelers, nice little bit of flavor and gives you something to think about post ending slides. Of course the Securitron army backed by my man House will make short work of them, but NCR or Legion or Wild Card might have to worry about them.
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May 18, 2012 23:48
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Dr. Gene Dango MD posted:You made his home, and then you blew it up. I'd look into a guy for that. Sane people don't blame the mailman when they get a letterbomb.
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May 19, 2012 00:08
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I really liked the tunnelers as well, great enemies I thought. Scary to encounter because they can take you down pretty quick. About the possibility of them taking down the Mojave, I dunno... I'm not so sure that this was actually the goal behind the character, but something I sorta liked about Ulysses is that he's... not trustworthy. I mean, he has good ideas about some things but he feels severely misled or broken down, he has lost perspective. So I took that part about the Tunnelers with a grain of salt, more like he's trying to intimidate you or whatever (though in great numbers, I could see the Tunnelers loving a lot of stuff up). Again, I don't know if it was the developers' intent but there were times where I often felt like the Courier and Ulysses' roles were reversed in terms of how we often see characters in RPGs. Or at least put more on equal footing somehow. Many times in RPGs, you have characters who's leading you around, who are more powerful than you in the most immediate sense, who are... bigger than you are. With Ulysses, it always felt to me like he tried really hard to gain the upper hand on you in the discussions but he never really succeeds. And that's kinda what I liked about LR, it's just a misled dude who has really lost perspective on a lot of things. Of course, with the build-up in the other DLCs, one sorta expected someone more... "powerful" and profound, who could *really* tell the Courier a thing or two. Instead, it's almost the other way around. If Chris Avellone intended it or not, who knows? But whatever the intent, I think it works in a pretty interesting way and sorta reinforces the Courier as a powerful character him/herself. What I did find disappointing though was his overall plan for the Mojave which just echoed Elijah in Dead Money a bit too much (though the details and motivations are different). It felt slightly like a repeat. Though the view when you approach Ulysses is IMO one of the greatest images in the Fallout franchise. EDIT: I also liked the idea that he's so frantically searching for some meaning, something to hold onto. He's clearly dismissing NCR and the Legion and House as well (though if I remember, you can actually discuss that a bit with him and surprise him with his plans). He dismisses the BoS in OWB. So his solution is to "burn away the flags, begin again." Which is sort of a nice echo to the War never changes theme. Leinadi fucked around with this message at 00:16 on May 19, 2012 |
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May 19, 2012 00:09
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Leinadi posted:So his solution is to "burn away the flags, begin again." Which is sort of a nice echo to the War never changes theme. And Dead Money. Begin again. Let go.
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May 19, 2012 00:34
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Strudel Man posted:No, you didn't. You carried something there at the behest of someone else, without knowing what it was or what it would do. You only did your job as a courier, and if you hadn't, someone else would have done the exact same thing with the exact same result. You might if you yourself were a mailman who used your position to letterbomb people, though. And that's not even counting the psychologically damaging effects of having the tribe you've lived in your entire life being forcibly integrated into the brutal alien culture of the Legion. Leinadi posted:Though the view when you approach Ulysses is IMO one of the greatest images in the Fallout franchise. Also, this. That was probably the most epic loving thing, this lunatic with the old world flag on his bank standing in front of a nuclear bomb at the end of a long corridor, flanked by twin eyebots. It's the first time I ever felt like I was actually facing a boss battle, Lanius kinda hanging out on a hill doesn't really cut it in comparison.
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May 19, 2012 01:03
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eating only apples posted:And Dead Money.
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May 19, 2012 01:10
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I love the ending slides to Lonesome Road so much, especially the narration about the Tunnelers making way for the Courier, perhaps out of fear, perhaps because they recognized a greater, more dangerous force than themselves and respected that. After Lonesome Road was over and I returned to the Mojave, I felt like the Courier was finally "complete" - he was more than ready and able to take on anything that was left in the world to deal with - especially Hoover Dam.
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May 19, 2012 01:19
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I feel like a philistine when I reflect on Lonesome Road, because the whole central point of its plot just doesn't really track with me. The whole framing mechanism of New Vegas and the other 3 DLCs has you as a man without a past, for essentially the same reason Gordon Freeman doesn't talk in Half-Life: you're not a real character so much as you are an avatar for the player, a method to extend their point of view or desired character into the game. For almost the entirety of the content available in the game your past doesn't figure in even slightly, so having the main thrust of LR be 'before any of this happened you did stuff and now have to answer for it' always felt like a weird sort of narrative betrayal to me--I've had the entirety of this game to write my own story, and the purported conclusion of the story has nothing to do with me, it's all this other guy I have to suddenly adjust my perspective to account for. When so much of the game is about responding and reacting to the things you've done and the character you've become, having that control of my identity taken away felt flat and out of place. I liked the way it ended and I thought Ulysses was an interesting character, but it still ended up being kind of unpleasant for me.
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May 19, 2012 02:57
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Jerusalem posted:I love the ending slides to Lonesome Road so much, especially the narration about the Tunnelers making way for the Courier, perhaps out of fear, perhaps because they recognized a greater, more dangerous force than themselves and respected that. The trouble with the DLCs is that the Courier accomplishes so much in them that when you get back to the Mojave doing stuff like collecting 200 cap debts and helping the NCR kill ants seems kind of trite, from a roleplaying perspective. But then when I start a new character I wanna jump into the DLC right away, but then I won't actually do any regular sidequests, etc etc and I drive myself crazy overthinking it.
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May 19, 2012 02:58
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Wolfsheim posted:You might if you yourself were a mailman who used your position to letterbomb people, though. And that's not even counting the psychologically damaging effects of having the tribe you've lived in your entire life being forcibly integrated into the brutal alien culture of the Legion.
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May 19, 2012 03:03
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CarlCX posted:I feel like a philistine when I reflect on Lonesome Road, because the whole central point of its plot just doesn't really track with me. What I liked about this is that the dialogue options you get allow you to address the accusations against you as you see fit - personally I find it fascinating that I'm being blamed for actions I have no familiarity with. Your character starts with a blank slate, so the fact that you are "responsible" for the Divide doesn't impact on the way you've decided to play the game/the person you've become since being dug out of that grave with a bullet in your head. You can call out Ulysses on it, tell him that you have no recollection, or that even if you did you are in no way responsible. He'll answer those retorts with arguments of his own, and I loved that it IS possible to eventually convince Ulysses that he is wrong and you are right. I love even more that right and wrong are treated subjectively, you're right only in so far as you the player believe in those actions. Ulysses isn't really wrong, he believes he is right and that makes him right until you convince him otherwise. By the same token, you're right until you can be convinced that you're not. I think one of the big lessons to come out of Lonesome Road is that we construct our own reality/sense of ethics/morality - either by ourselves, through the values imparted to us or by taking on board the messages/actions of others. Looking at the basic plotline for the expansion, at first glance it is as basic as,"Madman wants to blow up the world and create his own utopia", it's basically a Bond Villain in a post-apocalyptic setting. But there is more to it than that, and you don't have to look at it in purely black and white terms (but you can as well, if you choose to!). Wolfsheim posted:The trouble with the DLCs is that the Courier accomplishes so much in them that when you get back to the Mojave doing stuff like collecting 200 cap debts and helping the NCR kill ants seems kind of trite, from a roleplaying perspective. I'm lucky in that I was almost entirely through the game when I got Lonesome Road, so I didn't go there until I was almost ready to finish the game. If (when) I start a new playthrough, I'd probably be so tempted to jump in early if only to get the General's coat. 
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May 19, 2012 03:11
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CarlCX posted:I feel like a philistine when I reflect on Lonesome Road, because the whole central point of its plot just doesn't really track with me. That's kind of the point, though - it is, I imagine, supposed to be unsettling. It's forcing the player to analyse the non-direct repercussions of the PC's actions, it's just the ones chosen happen to be from before the start of the game. Tack on the stuff about whether you can be responsible if you don't remember it and it's a straight up rerun of the themes of Torment and KOTOR2.
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May 19, 2012 03:55
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MrL_JaKiri posted:That's kind of the point, though - it is, I imagine, supposed to be unsettling. It's forcing the player to analyse the non-direct repercussions of the PC's actions, it's just the ones chosen happen to be from before the start of the game. Tack on the stuff about whether you can be responsible if you don't remember it and it's a straight up rerun of the themes of Torment and KOTOR2. I always saw Lonesome Road as the story of someone who followed you and saw your actions, and learned the wrong thing every time.
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May 19, 2012 09:32
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Just finished Honest Hearts last night, and I really enjoyed it. I sided with Joshua Graham and wiped out the White Legs, and let him execute Salt-Upon-Wounds at the end. I also really have to commend the developers for making me self-motivated, because I found the story of The Survivalist way, way more intriguing and interesting than the actual conflict going on, and spent a while hunting down all the logs and stashes, none of which was referred to in a quest but rather stumbled on as a result of one. The only thing I could really fault the DLC for was not letting me resolve the moral conflict with Daniel properly. Especially since I had hunted down all the logs, I really, really wanted an option to tell him "First of all, the White Legs have already wiped out New Canaan, and then followed you here. There is no reason they won't follow you again, and again, and again, unless you make a stand. And if you're going to make a stand, there's no better place than here, where you have Joshua Graham and the Courier on your side, in Zion, where the Sorrows have lived for decades, a place that was protected and kept safe by the Survivalist and is seen as a holy place. This place has abundant food, beautiful scenery, and is all-around probably a great place to live compared to the shithole that is much of the Wasteland. More importantly, it's the Sorrows' home and they deserve to be allowed to keep it. Sometimes you have to stand and fight for what's right, and what's right is not letting the White Legs take whatever they please." But instead I was left without any option to justify myself, and instead had to just tell him "I think the other guy's right" and leave it at that. Otherwise, though, it was a great DLC and I really enjoyed myself. I know A Light Shining In Darkness is going to get a good workout throughout the rest of this playthrough, and Joshua Graham's Armour is pretty awesome.
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May 19, 2012 19:11
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vyelkin posted:The only thing I could really fault the DLC for was not letting me resolve the moral conflict with Daniel properly. Also, not being able to laugh in Follows-Chalk's face when he says "Bet they don't have anything as nasty as Yao Guai out where you come from, huh?" I liked when Joshua Graham joins you at the end and if you try to do Companion Wheel stuff, he calmly says "That's not going to happen."
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May 19, 2012 20:22
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myname_isdoug posted:Also, not being able to laugh in Follows-Chalk's face when he says "Bet they don't have anything as nasty as Yao Guai out where you come from, huh?" I'd liked to have known for sure whether or not Waking Cloud was hitting on me
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May 19, 2012 21:13
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redmercer posted:I'd liked to have known for sure whether or not Waking Cloud was hitting on me The married mother of three? I think we can safely say no.
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May 19, 2012 23:30
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I'm having issues with the bomb plot in camp mcarren, I got into the control tower after the spy, I sit at the bottom of the stairs, but he just wont start his conversation.
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May 19, 2012 23:33
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redmercer posted:I'd liked to have known for sure whether or not Waking Cloud was hitting on me Girl had a husband, no matter how you dealt with that issue. I think probably not, Courier. Look, there's lots of women in the Mojave who'll sleep with you. Is that not enough? Actually I like how little romance there is in this game. I know Red Lucy and Sarah in Vault 21 will sleep with you eventually - who else is there? Benny, for a Black Widow Courier, and various prostitutes at the Wrangler and in Westside. I can't think of anyone else. Romances in games always feel so forced. It's great to be able to hit on dozens of people, with the right perks, but only a few will actually lead to anything, and even that isn't meaningful in the long term.
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May 19, 2012 23:37
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Okay, it was a dumb pun joke based on one of her chatters; but marriage in a culture doesn't always come with that sort of exclusivity.eating only apples posted:It's great to be able to hit on dozens of people, with the right perks, but only a few will actually lead to anything, and even that isn't meaningful in the long term.
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May 19, 2012 23:46
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I haven't played the DLC in a while, so I'm going back and playing through them all again. I finished Dead Money last night. Would have finished sooner, but the section with the speakers before the vault was annoying as all gently caress. Running to the console to shut off the alarms didn't work, because I always exploded just as the console booted up, and the only other solution was to jump from beam to beam after shooting the only unprotected speaker, so that I could get to the incredibly small safe zone long enough to quick-save. Those holograms next weren't exactly helpful either, but at least it only took me a try or two. I never actually played Honest Hearts for some reason, so I started it up today. It's really weirdly paced if you ask me. They start off by upping the ante when they call off your entire Caravan, and then they have you do abunch of fetch quests. I'd also like to note, has anyone noticed that none of the water is irradiated in Honest Hearts? Did the bombs not hit Utah at all or something :/
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May 19, 2012 23:47
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Pound_Coin posted:I'm having issues with the bomb plot in camp mcarren, I got into the control tower after the spy, I sit at the bottom of the stairs, but he just wont start his conversation.
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May 19, 2012 23:52
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Ungrateful Dead posted:
That's why it's called "Zion". Well, that and the real life Zion National Park, but the metaphor is also valid.
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May 20, 2012 00:10
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Ungrateful Dead posted:I'd also like to note, has anyone noticed that none of the water is irradiated in Honest Hearts? Did the bombs not hit Utah at all or something :/ Lake Mead is also not irradiated.
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May 20, 2012 00:12
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Honest Hearts really had a wonderful 'trouble in paradise' feel to it I think. Just playing it for the first time, after the dramatic opening and meeting Follows-Chalk... and then everything is sorta quiet. Beautiful views from high plateus. Go down into the valleys where the river flows, oh my... none of the water is irradiated! And look... there are fishes! And then, suddenly it starts to rain. I was pretty impressed with how well I though Honest Hearts fit into Fallout as a whole considering it's all about tribals (which I've never really liked that much in Fallout) and that it has such a serene environment. And I like playing it a lot in the context of the other DLCs. I love the others too but they are about really "high-fantasy" concepts (like much of Avellone's writing), demanding in terms of gameplay and they all completely break the main game through ludicrous loot and rewards. HH feels like it fits in more naturally with the main game in a sense (not a surprise since Josh Sawyer was the lead guy on both, but still).
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May 20, 2012 00:28
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To be fair I don't think radiation wouldn't be an issue anymore after so many years. Didn't the survivalist in HH talk about radiation in his early entries though? I don't remember.
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May 20, 2012 00:30
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