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Vilerat posted:I think I need to go somewhere lovely so I can appreciate HL again. I think I got 110 days of HL that I will never, ever, spend. Coming out of AF, HL was a godsend.
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May 15, 2012 14:57
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pamchenko posted:Ahahahahahahaha! I have a friend who interned at an embassy last year and then got super excited about going into FS. She kept saying how much she'd love to go back to the country she interned in (which, to be fair, is not exactly a hot spot, but is geographically located in Europe), and I said that would be great, but isn't in any way guaranteed. Her response? "Oh, I know. I'd be okay going anywhere in Europe." So I guess it's a good thing that I don't really want to go to Europe. Also, I spoke with a friend here in DC taking the FSOT who was under the impression that she could basically spend her entire career in one country with some short tours back to DC. How does one think this way if they did any amount of research?
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May 15, 2012 15:08
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mtreecorner posted:So I guess it's a good thing that I don't really want to go to Europe. This is arguably possible for places like.. Nigeria. I also know a lot of people who've done multiple tours in Brazil, but that's with stints in Mozambique, AIP, D.C., etc. But mutiple tours means 3 or so over the course of a career. That's still like 1/3 of your time, but it's nowhere near most of a career.
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May 15, 2012 15:13
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TCD posted:This is arguably possible for places like.. Nigeria. I think she was thinking more Western Europe or East Asia than anywhere in AF. lol.
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May 15, 2012 15:20
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mtreecorner posted:I think she was thinking more Western Europe or East Asia than anywhere in AF. lol. Tell her good luck with that.
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May 15, 2012 15:55
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TCD posted:I think you're doing homeleave wrong. Oh, no doubt I'm doing it a little bit wrong. I've got some weekend trips planned, but what I really should have done was go to San Diego to visit some friends or something. Oh well, next time.
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May 15, 2012 18:31
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TCD posted:Tell her good luck with that. Nobody gets choice 1st world assignments in a row, that's just silly.
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May 15, 2012 19:40
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I'm in Japan and I have been thinking about biting the bullet and working with State, so signed up for the test two days ago. The email said invitations would go out in early May, but I've yet to get anything more than the robo-mail I got upon registering. Now that I finally took the plunge and signed up, I'm really worried that I'm going to fall through the cracks, having waited so long to register and being in a foreign country. I know it says the deadline is May 25, but I kinda really want to get it now. 
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May 16, 2012 04:03
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ATI Jesus posted:Orientation needs to learn how to manage the expectations of the new hires. It's not doing the newbies any service and just pisses off GSO and management. directly speaking from a new specialist class, management seems to be addressing this issue. There are a ton of questions of what expectations and life will be like at posts and they're trying to answer as many as they can without 'it depends'; speakers are elaborating on their experiences at-post; they're also addressing cultural and hardship differences 'more in-depth from prior classes'. Of course, management can always preach it but there's still an unavoidable period where people experience/realize culture shock, so maybe they're just subtly warning folks and advising them on a more appropriate way to react. mtreecorner posted:Also, I spoke with a friend here in DC taking the FSOT who was under the impression that she could basically spend her entire career in one country with some short tours back to DC. How does one think this way if they did any amount of research? I suppose if you're really good at your job, likable, and have great rapport with your peers/management, you can back & forth between two or three countries and D.C. Even if you could stick to "east asia and western europe" i'd suspect it would not be until late in your career, and you would have to establish an incredible reputation. Jacobobb posted:I'm in Japan and I have been thinking about biting the bullet and working with State, so signed up for the test two days ago. It's been awhile, but I think you get a robo-mail that confirms the test date and time, then you show up there for the FSOT. Unless you mean you mean the OA, in which case 
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May 16, 2012 22:57
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pamchenko posted:Oh, no doubt I'm doing it a little bit wrong. I've got some weekend trips planned, but what I really should have done was go to San Diego to visit some friends or something. Oh well, next time. Started drinking at 2 PM today. I love home leave in Louisiana.
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May 17, 2012 01:47
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the_chavi posted:Started drinking at 2 PM today. I love home leave in Louisiana. I would expect Louisiana to be a hardship post.
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May 17, 2012 15:52
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Skandiaavity posted:It's been awhile, but I think you get a robo-mail that confirms the test date and time, then you show up there for the FSOT. Unless you mean you mean the OA, in which case It was just for the FSOT. It finally came through, though. Needing two forms of ID to take the test is kind of a pain in the rear end. I hope my drivers license hasn't expired yet...
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May 18, 2012 00:25
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edit- Figured out where I should actually post this so I'm going to post it there. But if there isn't too much bleedover between the two threads, do you guys have any insight on my questions? ---- Used to read this thread and then lost track of it, and I'm not up to reading 60+ pages to catch up... hope I'm not repeating anything too common. I know you're all mostly FSOs in here and thus might not be able to help but I was curious about positions working with State based in the US. I've been abroad a good deal of my 20s (2 years of Peace Corps and just shy of 2 years in Japan now) and though I'm interested in the DoS I ultimately think I would not want to go the FSO route. Specifically, my Country Director in the Peace Corps told me during my exit interview that he thought the Foreign Service wouldn't fit well with me because there is a lot of rear end-kissing and kowtowing (is this true?) and I'd chafe too much. I'm also not thrilled at the idea of having little control over post assignments. However, I have a serious interest in foreign policy and would ultimately like to take part in helping to shape it, so that's what I'm gunning for. Anyway my point is mostly- 1) Was my CD right, about how much brownnosing you've got to do? I couldn't tell if he just had an axe to grind or what. 2) Do you guys know much about working stateside for State? I'd love to work with East Asian and Pacific Affairs specifically, but mostly anything in security would be great... 3) The grad school question. A lot of people I know went to get an MA in IR and are looking into various policy positions in DC. If I were to go the FSO route I don't think I'd bother with grad school because I think my degree+international experience and a stint working with a security thinktank in DC would be more important than a degree that most other applicants could have, but if I'm hoping to work based in D.C. do you think it'd make sense to take the two years (and debt) for an MA? Like I said, I know this isn't really the right place for it but I haven't seen threads for anything closer to what I'm interested in, and since it dovetails with the FSO somewhat I hoped you guys might have some insight. CronoGamer fucked around with this message at 11:16 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 10:36
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Domestic assignments are a mix of Civil Service and FS. The one benefit of having a masters is that you come in at a higher salary as a FSO. For the CS side, the better jobs probably require a masters. I'd look on USAJOBs and look at openings and see degree requirements. As to some of the concerns as FSOs. Well, it just depends on the Post how much or how little you'll have to do (or how badly you want a particular job  )
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May 18, 2012 12:51
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TCD posted:Domestic assignments are a mix of Civil Service and FS. Meaning the responsibilities of domestic assignments are a mix of the two? Or that half the people working domestic are civil servants, and the others are FS on home rotations?
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May 18, 2012 13:20
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I'm not sure if the ratio is half and half, but yes, it means that some of the people working in DC are civil servants, and some are FS on DC rotations.
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May 18, 2012 13:32
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CronoGamer posted:2) Do you guys know much about working stateside for State? I'd love to work with East Asian and Pacific Affairs specifically, but mostly anything in security would be great... I can speak to the civil service as a current GS-12 - The civil service jobs are hard to come by, especially now. Not to say you can't get one... but the FS has a simpler entry system imo. In the CS, you need to have qualifications for that specific job and hope veterans don't apply (They get first priority int he civil service for the most part). Also, you can apply for a job where they (though they really shouldn't) have a person picked already and need to put it on USAjobs for legal reasons. You can tell when a job is posted for only 7 days and super specific qualifications. It is frustrating and more so with lowered hiring. That said, you do have PC exp... so that helps in getting a CS job but not as much as you think. I will warn you... right now, the civil service is hard to get into unless you go in entry level. This is true at almost every agency. A better tactic would be to apply to many different agencies because I honestly haven't seen many opportunities at state unless one has crazy experience. Looks like jobs geared to former FSO's to me. Have you looked at USAID? Your PC exp may fit in better there. As for graduate degree... it depends. It is more important to have outside of government but a masters in something is always useful. Some CS jobs look for a grad degree though. In my personal opinion, if you want to eventually help shape policy... a grad degree would be useful beyond JUST getting a job.
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May 18, 2012 15:27
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mtreecorner posted:In my personal opinion, if you want to eventually help shape policy... a grad degree would be useful beyond JUST getting a job. This is largely how I've been viewing it, but didn't want to rush into it if it wasn't necessary and thought I'd ask around. I wouldn't necessarily need to go into the DoS right after getting a grad degree- working in DC showed me how often people drift around from State to consulting firm to thinktank and back into State depending on the administration- but it's something toward which I'd ultimately like to work. Thanks for the advice! (missing my NCE from the year after Peace Corps pretty badly right now though...  )
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May 18, 2012 16:01
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If you want to be CS, you really really really should consider trying to get in as a PMF.
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May 18, 2012 18:37
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Diplomaticus posted:If you want to be CS, you really really really should consider trying to get in as a PMF. It's very competitive but I agree with Diplomaticus.
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May 18, 2012 18:56
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Diplomaticus posted:If you want to be CS, you really really really should consider trying to get in as a PMF. Yeah. 15 people from my grad program (including me) applied to PMF this year. One got to the finalist stage. And he didn't take it. Dick.
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May 18, 2012 21:15
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Almost every TDYer in my office coming from civil service was a PMF. It's actually pretty cool if you're doing it, because you'll still be civil service but get to experience the FS lifestyle while on TDY.
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May 18, 2012 21:28
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Also just to highlight how competitive State is, it consistently ranks in the top 10 best places to work in federal government, and regularly makes it into the top 50 for overall places to work from places like Washingtonian. There are (outdated stats, but close enough) something like 20,000-22,000 employees at State. 7500 of those are civil service, at ALL ranks. You can imagine, therefore, how competitive entry level jobs are. Now factor in that some of these jobs are outside Washington at the various passport agencies and field offices. Another 11,000 jobs or so are foreign service. I have no idea how the remainder are calculated. Compare to overall federal government workforce of something like 2.2 million. Yeah, it's competitive.
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May 18, 2012 21:34
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mtreecorner posted:It's very competitive but I agree with Diplomaticus. Thirded. You might also consider applying for Pickering or Rangall fellowships... not sure if you have to apply as an undergrad though, but it can't hurt to look into it. If you join the FS, you don't have to make a career out of it. Do a tour or two overseas and then you can convert and apply for CS positions at State. You'll have a much better chance of getting these CS positions once you've worked in the system. I know a lot of people who did this - worked in the FS for two or three tours, then once they had kids and wanted to settle down in the US, they converted to CS jobs in similar employment fields to what they did overseas. (Consular work, economic analysis, nuclear negotiations, whatever.) I'm not sure about the overall ratio of CS to FS, but there are some offices that are more heavily CS weighted. For example, in PRM (Population, Refugees, and Migration), most of our experts in the field are CS, because they've been working with ICMC and UNHCR for 20+ years. (Lovely people in that office - I staffed a visit by the A/S to Turkey a few months ago, and both he and the staffers who came with were amazing.) the_chavi fucked around with this message at 23:03 on May 18, 2012 |
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May 18, 2012 23:00
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The whole 'shaping foreign policy' is going to happen over your head. It's really very complex. For specific bureau's, I can't really comment. But a few years ago, I had a talk with Former Ambassador Christopher Hill (who was the Former Asst. Sec of East Asian and Pacific Affairs, and also the U.S. Ambassador to several places, most recently Iraq I believe). He worked very hard and did not always get to pick his posts, or which bureau he specialized in. He just happened to be good at Korean and Japanese affairs, finding common ground and working from there. He was ALSO good at overall diplomacy, and his skills were applied in Eastern Europe, which was his specialty; and then the Middle East. So the impression of an FSO is not to try to narrow yourself to "I want to work with [East] Asian affairs specifically." If you consider that, I'd imagine you might have a hard time at State. All that relates to how diplomacy works, (especially domestically), it involves rear end kissing, yes, but it's not exactly of the "kiss up" variety. There are so many involved people in foreign policy; State, the executive office/president, the senate, off the top of my head there's like 4 or 5 house committees, etc. and then THAT trickles all the way across/down to the Ambassador, who is Big Boss where you work, and THEN you have other factors to consider, such as the bureaus and policy changes or job rotations every 2 to 4 years, think tank interventions, private business/commerce decisions (which, by the way, the Ambassador might have a personal interest in) etc.... all of that may or may not occur at post, and so you've got little control over what decisions are being made. To put it in perspective, nominally: The current AsstSec for EAPA I believe is a Political Appointee, Kurt Campbell. Compare his background with Former Ambassador Hill's (who was mentioned above), and you can start to see how they contrast. Both have had the same job, within the last 6 years. The Bios also give you an idea of how many different folks (from Campbell's prior history)- and approaches (Hill's) - are involved. Again, that's only nominally. There's never really a clear answer on how to 'get the job'; some of the stuff you just have to be "in" with whomever is the current President, Secretary of State or Congress. (try to think of the amount of brown nosing that might take you..) As to how a FSO is involved in the diplomacy process aside from what was stated in the OP, I think Business of Ferrets is our go-to FSO on the forum, so I'd delegate that specific question to his expertise. But my understanding is FSO's support the mission of the embassy and not always work on the policy. Both of those change over duties and time. If you want to work in Security, there are one or two Diplomatic Security (DS) goons who might be able to answer your question too. I believe they operate domestically and foreign. also Diplomaticus, do we want to research any CS <-> FS, or other laterals like Pickering/Rangall/PMF Fellowships for the OP? or not?
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May 19, 2012 03:41
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CronoGamer posted:Specifically, my Country Director in the Peace Corps told me during my exit interview that he thought the Foreign Service wouldn't fit well with me because there is a lot of rear end-kissing and kowtowing (is this true?) and I'd chafe too much. I'm also not thrilled at the idea of having little control over post assignments. However, I have a serious interest in foreign policy and would ultimately like to take part in helping to shape it, so that's what I'm gunning for. People who do well at State tend to a) get along well with others and b) perform strongly in their job. I have to assume that many workplaces are more or less like this. Those two things are going to do more for one's advancement than any brown-nosing. Yes, lots of FSOs are Type-A, ambitious personalities, but even severe introverts appear to do OK. Also, in my experience, my bosses seem to have most appreciated my candid (but still respectful) feedback, especially when I disagreed with their views. You don't need to kiss rear end if you're a good worker and a person people like. If I had to guess, I would say your CD had some kind of bad experience with the Foreign Service. Maybe he has felt tension with State folks in embassies. Just as likely is that he tried to become an FSO, but failed. The FS has a lot of RPCVs, and they do just as well as the rest of the general population. After the first two tours, most officers actually have a considerable amount of control over where they serve, and even more control over where they don't serve. Flexibility is always required, and there are no guarantees, but as you move up in the organization there are fewer unknowns in the assignments process. (If it helps as an example, I've been in more than ten years and I don't anticipate having to take any job I don't want anytime in the next 10-15 years.) CronoGamer posted:2) Do you guys know much about working stateside for State? I'd love to work with East Asian and Pacific Affairs specifically, but mostly anything in security would be great... If this is what you want then your best bet is to become a political-track FSO. The main bilateral policy shops are full of FSOs, and even in the functional bureaus where there is sometimes a larger number of CS employees, very often the bosses are FSOs, so the last word on policy sits with them. There are plenty of good CS folks at state -- many experts in their field -- but the jobs are so hard to get that, in some offices at least, people literally have to die before much opens up. CronoGamer posted:3) The grad school question. A lot of people I know went to get an MA in IR and are looking into various policy positions in DC. If I were to go the FSO route I don't think I'd bother with grad school because I think my degree+international experience and a stint working with a security thinktank in DC would be more important than a degree that most other applicants could have, but if I'm hoping to work based in D.C. do you think it'd make sense to take the two years (and debt) for an MA? If you can get hired as an FSO without doing the grad degree, then do so. A couple years of work as an FSO is going to be more educational and professionally relevant than the best IR grad programs. That said, it seems like a Masters is pretty much the price of admission to any decent entry-level policy work (including NGOs, think tanks, gov, private sector) in Washington, D.C. Though I don't know for sure, I would judge relevant work experience to be more valuable than graduate education, if you have to choose between the two.
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May 19, 2012 04:07
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Thank you for all the replies. It's been extremely helpful- I was entirely unfamiliar with the PMF program before and that's certainly something I'll look into, now.Business of Ferrets posted:Maybe he has felt tension with State folks in embassies. Just as likely is that he tried to become an FSO, but failed. The FS has a lot of RPCVs, and they do just as well as the rest of the general population. That was sort of the impression I'd gotten, too. I knew that there was a lot of crossover with RPCVs so thought it odd, and I knew he'd told others from my group that there'd be too much rear end-kissing so I knew the comment wasn't directed at me personally. I've got an RPCV friend in Mumbai now and he seems to be doing well. quote:If you can get hired as an FSO without doing the grad degree, then do so. A couple years of work as an FSO is going to be more educational and professionally relevant than the best IR grad programs. That said, it seems like a Masters is pretty much the price of admission to any decent entry-level policy work (including NGOs, think tanks, gov, private sector) in Washington, D.C. Though I don't know for sure, I would judge relevant work experience to be more valuable than graduate education, if you have to choose between the two. This track makes sense to me, and if I were a little younger I think it'd be the clear answer, but I'm in my late 20s and not sure I'd want to take the time out that 2-3 tours would take before getting started at home. I don't have my heart set on State necessarily- private sector, thinktank, even UN work all hold a lot of interest for me as well. In that light, it seems like the degree makes more sense with a possibility of moving into CS in some capacity later, right? Skandiaavity posted:The whole 'shaping foreign policy' is going to happen over your head. It's really very complex. Thanks for this! When I worked with the think tank in DC I became familiar with Kurt Campbell and his background, and I'm also familiar with a few of the other people who made it up there in State or in the DoD, but I didn't know about Ambassador Hill. But you (and the other posters) have given me a good deal to mull over, so thanks a ton.
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May 19, 2012 06:59
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Skandiaavity posted:also Diplomaticus, do we want to research any CS <-> FS, or other laterals like Pickering/Rangall/PMF Fellowships for the OP? or not? If you want.
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May 19, 2012 10:32
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CronoGamer posted:This track makes sense to me, and if I were a little younger I think it'd be the clear answer, but I'm in my late 20s and not sure I'd want to take the time out that 2-3 tours would take before getting started at home. I don't have my heart set on State necessarily- private sector, thinktank, even UN work all hold a lot of interest for me as well. In that light, it seems like the degree makes more sense with a possibility of moving into CS in some capacity later, right? Most FSO's enter around their 30's. I think the average age was 30 or 35, and the youngest person in the current specialist class so far is 28... For generalists I'd like to think it's mid 20's and above? Speaking from experience, you mentioned you had DC thinktank/private sector experience as well, so you should be already aware that the expectations set in the private sector are usually high, and at times, not always realistic. The goals are set because they don't get to see the full playing board. "It Depends", the motto of FP, is simply unacceptable to the stakeholders, who have to answer to those that pay them. Thus, they try to narrow or specify their interests to maximize their impact (and chance for success), if that makes any sense. It's a lot to digest, and never an easy choice. If the above sounds more appealing to you, then it's great to see people wanting to get involved in a more global scale, even academics, and help out any way they can. It brings out the community and offers different perspectives to solve issues.
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May 19, 2012 13:36
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Skandiaavity posted:...and the youngest person in the current specialist class so far is 28... So that's why they didn't invite me to OAs. Ageism :shakefist:
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May 19, 2012 21:58
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Skandiaavity posted:Most FSO's enter around their 30's. I think the average age was 30 or 35, and the youngest person in the current specialist class so far is 28... For generalists I'd like to think it's mid 20's and above? Based on my experience in A100 the average starting age is mid-thirties, unless you join with the other Pickerings, in which case it's more like 26.
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May 20, 2012 04:42
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Skandiaavity posted:Most FSO's enter around their 30's. I think the average age was 30 or 35, and the youngest person in the current specialist class so far is 28... For generalists I'd like to think it's mid 20's and above? I think that must be atypical to not have at least a person or 2 in the specialist class who is younger than 28. I was told by someone from states HR that pending approval from the FRP I'll be invited to the July class(register is empty), in which case I'll be entering at 23 as an IMS. Another friend(and fellow PCV) is undergoing security clearance as an IMS -- he is ~24-25. Being so young definitely helped speed up the security clearance for me, it took a hair less than 7 weeks. Based on the 15 or so PCVs I know who passed the FSOT this last year, age was NOT a factor in whether they passed the QEP or not. Those who had a relevant masters degree all were invited to the OA. A relevant bachelors degree and PC was not enough to get an OA invite.. infact.. I think of the 12 who had bachelors degrees, only 3 were extended OA invites -- and the ages varied across the board. Area of study/school rank/GPA/work experience appeared to be the most heavily weighted, the written test score may be there as well but it seemed there was a correlation between the most qualified people and higher scores. Age didn't appear to be a determinant at all, though this is admittedly a small sample size. jayk fucked around with this message at 05:29 on May 20, 2012 |
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May 20, 2012 05:15
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jayk posted:I think that must be atypical to not have at least a person or 2 in the specialist class who is younger than 28. I was told by someone from states HR that pending approval from the FRP I'll be invited to the July class(register is empty), in which case I'll be entering at 23 as an IMS. Another friend(and fellow PCV) is undergoing security clearance as an IMS -- he is ~24-25. Being so young definitely helped speed up the security clearance for me, it took a hair less than 7 weeks. Just as a fyi, I was dinged on my first go around with the QEP. I started the service at age 25 as an IMS. I'm currently looking at my future.
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May 20, 2012 07:29
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TCD posted:Just as a fyi, I was dinged on my first go around with the QEP. FSO QEP? Did you apply through the Mustang program? MGT Cone? The QEP was brutal this year. A good friend of mine was rejected ECO Cone despite attending a top uni, eco major with a solid GPA, peace corps, and good essays/FSWE scores. Instead he'll be attending a top 10 B-school. I was also dinged - though in retrospect I applied for the cone which most interested me and not the one which I fit best. It's all timing though, I don't know the stats but it's my understanding they are inviting something like 50% less people for the OA this year compared to '09.
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May 20, 2012 13:56
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TCD says, “I’m currently looking at my future” - How is the future for an IMSer, any career growth? I am trying to join the IMS ranks, but this will be less money (at first) and back to performing Helpdesk duties. Are there enough opportunities for promotion or meaningful career development or should I be cool with the IMS slot over the long run. Insight is most appreciated.
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May 21, 2012 01:02
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jayk posted:The QEP was brutal this year. No poo poo. My husband (then boyfriend) got bounced out at the QEP stage last year. Trying again in the next testing window...
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May 21, 2012 06:10
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coconutcrab posted:TCD says, “I’m currently looking at my future” - How is the future for an IMSer, any career growth? I am trying to join the IMS ranks, but this will be less money (at first) and back to performing Helpdesk duties. Are there enough opportunities for promotion or meaningful career development or should I be cool with the IMS slot over the long run. Insight is most appreciated. My thoughts on the IMS career field are probably different than Vile's for example. My degree is in IR and minor in business. I just happen to know IT, and got hired on for that. Promotion in IRM are probably some of the lowest in the Department. Every bump is highly competitive and something I’m thinking about. However, once you hit '3' you start taking a financial impact from switching jobs etc. As a 4, I can go over to be a generalist without too much time lost. I'll have to do 2 additional entry level posts, but it's not the end of the world. This is the reason why I took the FSOT last year, and I’m now qualified to attempt the Mustang conversion program. As for promotion stuff. Most people will hit 3 in IRM. However, I do know several people who will retire at FS-3 all the way over on the steps. There's a significant 3-2 hurdle in our career field. Currently, being a 3 means you’ll be the head IT manager at a smaller post or a section manager at a medium-large post. A 2 is normally an IT manager at a medium sized post or the section manager at a large post. There’s also corresponding jobs in DC with more responsibility for higher grades. Currently, the amount of actual IT work done is an inverse slope. Most 2’s will do little IT work, if any. For the most part you’ll just be managing staff, projects, budgets etc. 1s are essentially IT managers.
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May 21, 2012 13:36
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Aaaand I'm going to Manila, Philippines!  Nobody quit on flag day, too! TCD, you have a great IMS heading your way. Humble and determined. Diplomaticus, you're getting two OMS. one's a great girl (so far!) the other one i haven't had a chance to talk to yet. BOF, you also have a great guy (OMS, i believe?) incoming to Tokyo. Very smart, very resourceful. (edit: Vilerat you got an awesome FMO, too. He looks like Superman's alter ego, I swear) Some very interesting post divisions. FMO's got their choice (as in first world country choices), IMS got either first or second choice (except the guy going to Nigeria), Med Officers got their choice, DS agents al l got their choices. The OMS all seemed very happy even though they did not always get their top 3. Skandiaavity fucked around with this message at 03:23 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 02:55
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Skandiaavity posted:Aaaand I'm going to Manila, Philippines! Congratulations!
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May 23, 2012 05:06
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 22:54 |
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Grats! My flag day sucked cause I was going to SA-7 and already knew it. Yes, they gave me a Virginia flag.
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May 23, 2012 05:48
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