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Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Oxford Comma: Hey guys I want a cool big dog to show off! I want it to be ~special~ like Thor but more couch potato-like because I got babbies in the house!
Everybody: GET A LAB.
Oxford Comma: OK! (gets a a pit/catahoula mix)
I need some car buying advice.

I'm going to buy a Mitsubishi Montero for my weekend camping rig. I found one on Craigslist being advertised by a dealership for a shade under $5000. Edmunds says that the dealer price is about half of that. If I go to the dealership and say "Edmunds says this car is worth $2500" are they most likely going to say "We don't care."

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saintonan
Dec 7, 2009

Fields of glory shine eternal

Oxford Comma posted:

I need some car buying advice.

I'm going to buy a Mitsubishi Montero for my weekend camping rig. I found one on Craigslist being advertised by a dealership for a shade under $5000. Edmunds says that the dealer price is about half of that. If I go to the dealership and say "Edmunds says this car is worth $2500" are they most likely going to say "We don't care."

Possibly, but there's no requirement that you do business with that dealership in that event. If it really is worth $2500, there will be other places selling them for that amount (or thereabouts). If there aren't any places selling it near that amount, then it's possible the KBB/Edmunds estimation is wrong.

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022
I'm currently driving a 2004 Chevy Cavalier. Just hit 100k miles, I put about 1/2 of them on it. It has been a very reliable car, great on gas, but I want something that isn't quite so low to the ground. I hate not being able to see around signs/tall weeds/huge redneck truck that pulled up next to me/etc. and I'd also like some more room for hauling my dogs around (100lbs total of dog) and to have something with 4WD/AWD because I live on a really lovely road by a creek that occassionally floods and washes it out. So I'm looking at crossover SUVs, the smaller the better, because I don't want to drive a behemoth of a vehicle and don't need THAT much more room than a car.

So far I have only looked online, but once I get ready for test driving I'm probably going to rent my favorite models and drive them for a weekend. I recently did that with a new Ford Focus, because I was traveling for work and it was cheaper on my company to rent than to pay my mileage, and by the end of the weekend I knew that I completely hated it. My local mechanic has also agreed to inspect anything I'm interested in buying, once I get to that point.

The main things I'm wondering right now are:

1. Recommended model of compact/crossover SUV? I've looked at reviews and talked to people who own various ones but I'm always looking for more input.

2. I know my car isn't worth much (hell I only paid $5k for it so it wasn't worth much when I bought it) but should I trade it in or try to sell it privately? I think it would be pretty awesome to get $1500 - $2000 for it, but it has no airbags and a wrecked title, then I added a minor dent and busted grill when I hit a dog. The interior is pretty disgusting due to hauling said dogs around but I can clean that up.

3. I'm expecting to pay somewhere around $20k, based on prices in this area. I expect to have somewhere between $10k - $12k saved up by the end of the year. Should I take that and finance the rest and go ahead and buy a car at the end of the year/first of next year, or should I just suck it up and keep driving my car for 1.5-2 more years and just pay cash? The only debt I have currently is about $1k on a credit card for some recent furniture purchases that will be paid off next month, and my mortgage. I don't really want a car payment, but wouldn't be opposed to financing and quickly paying it off.

There's really nothing wrong with my car and no reason why I can't drive it for 2 more years at least; I'm just a little tired of being so low to the ground, not having cruise control, wondering if I'll be trapped at my house when the creek gets high, that sort of thing.

Everything Burrito fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 6, 2012

shredswithpiks
Jul 5, 2006
Blast! I need a goon account!

Ed Mungo posted:

something with 4WD/AWD

12k could get you a really decent used Subaru Forester.

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022

shredswithpiks posted:

12k could get you a really decent used Subaru Forester.

I ran a quick search within 75 miles of my zip code and 2009 models started at $18,900 and went up from there, and I'd really like to stick to the newer end of used. I'm using http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com should I be looking somewhere else? Craigslist isn't terribly useful because I'm not close to a major city, but I sometimes browse around on Local Sales Network and prices are pretty comparable to what the US News site is telling me.

edit: When I say I'm expecting to spend $20k, really I'd like to spend less than that and hopefully my car will contribute a little toward that amount. I guess what I'm looking for is also what everyone else is looking for though, so they're kinda ridiculous right now. :(

Everything Burrito fucked around with this message at 04:46 on May 7, 2012

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Ed Mungo posted:

wondering if I'll be trapped at my house when the creek gets high, that sort of thing.

I can't really help you shop for 2 year old crossover SUVs, but this statement worries me.

The fact that you have 4 wheel drive does not make running water much safer to drive through. (I mean it's better than nothing but it's no panacea.) The rule of thumb is if you cannot see the bottom (regardless of the reason), it is not safe to drive through. Many a driver has foundered in running water, which is especially dangerous when it's a stream in flood stage. The faster the water is running, the more likely a tire will lift and once that happens, the whole car is likely to lose grip and begin sliding downstream.

And of course, if your car has no snorkel, water high enough to get into the intake will not only stop the engine running, it may also cause a hydrolock situation which can destroy the engine.

So yeah, an SUV is better for taking a well-graded and established ford than a small light car... but please don't try to drive through flooding streams in any car.

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022
Haha yeah I didn't mean actively driving through running water. It doesn't stay up above the road long, but the problem is when it washes out it takes the surface of the road with it. I had to drive across some really bad no-road areas last spring and just barely made it over with rocks scraping the underside of my car.

shredswithpiks
Jul 5, 2006
Blast! I need a goon account!

Ed Mungo posted:

I ran a quick search within 75 miles of my zip code and 2009 models started at $18,900 and went up from there, and I'd really like to stick to the newer end of used. I'm using http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com should I be looking somewhere else? Craigslist isn't terribly useful because I'm not close to a major city, but I sometimes browse around on Local Sales Network and prices are pretty comparable to what the US News site is telling me.

edit: When I say I'm expecting to spend $20k, really I'd like to spend less than that and hopefully my car will contribute a little toward that amount. I guess what I'm looking for is also what everyone else is looking for though, so they're kinda ridiculous right now. :(

Argh. Yeah, if you're looking in the 2-4yo range you're probably not going to find a bargain Subaru. I'm a big fan of Subaru 2005/2006 MY, and if you're willing to travel a ways to pick one up you can find a really good deal. If you're set on sticking with something 09+, then I might still stick with the Forester as a recommendation (although you're gonna be towards the top of your 20k range), and possibly the Subaru Outback (not legacy or impreza outback... just outback so you get the extra clearance) for something a little smaller.

If it were me, I would go out of my way to not finance any of it and stick with an 05/06.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

shredswithpiks posted:

Argh. Yeah, if you're looking in the 2-4yo range you're probably not going to find a bargain Subaru. I'm a big fan of Subaru 2005/2006 MY, and if you're willing to travel a ways to pick one up you can find a really good deal. If you're set on sticking with something 09+, then I might still stick with the Forester as a recommendation (although you're gonna be towards the top of your 20k range), and possibly the Subaru Outback (not legacy or impreza outback... just outback so you get the extra clearance) for something a little smaller.

If it were me, I would go out of my way to not finance any of it and stick with an 05/06.

Until MY2010 legacy outback and outback are the same vehicle. If you look at legacy outbacks just make sure its the wagon and not the sedan, unless you want the sedan that is.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre
It sucks, but with some extreme negotiation skills, you can get a new Forester for less then a used one as people tend to hold on to them. I found a new 2011 for 17.5K at the dealer (base model) when the cheapest used was 18K+.

shredswithpiks
Jul 5, 2006
Blast! I need a goon account!

Don Lapre posted:

Until MY2010 legacy outback and outback are the same vehicle. If you look at legacy outbacks just make sure its the wagon and not the sedan, unless you want the sedan that is.

oh, duh. Brain thought they split in MY09 for some reason.

Everything Burrito
Jun 2, 2011

I Failed At Anime 2022
Thanks for the suggestions :) I'm not real interested in financing unless something comes up and I need to replace my car earlier than anticipated, but I also don't want to end up with a car that's about the same age as what I already have so I guess the solution to that is suck it up and keep saving. I'm looking at smartypig.com because I saw it mentioned in a previous post somewhere, looks like a neat system and I was already thinking about opening a new account somewhere so I could separate "car money" from everything else and not be dipping into it.

Dreadite
Dec 31, 2004

College Slice
Hey guys, what's the lesser of two evils here?

I have a lease right now that is affordable for me (around $200 a month) and I've put very little miles on it. However, I really don't like the "renting" aspect of it, I don't like driving the car very much, and I think I'd rather buy a new car.

Dealerships right now are willing to buy out my lease entirely and give me 1% financing on a new vehicle with $0 down, but I'd end up paying $100 a month more in payments (which I can afford just fine) for a 72 month term. Over the term I'm only paying ~$1100 in interest, so despite the long term, that isn't really bad right? (I am under the impression that the reason 60-72 month loans are so bad is because they eat you alive in interest).

I would like a new car for the warranty/maintenance reasons and I would try to keep it for 10+ years. That should be easy because I only put about 8k on a car yearly. Is there something foolish about this that I am going to be regretting?

Daeus
Nov 17, 2001

Dreadite posted:

Hey guys, what's the lesser of two evils here?

I have a lease right now that is affordable for me (around $200 a month) and I've put very little miles on it. However, I really don't like the "renting" aspect of it, I don't like driving the car very much, and I think I'd rather buy a new car.

Dealerships right now are willing to buy out my lease entirely and give me 1% financing on a new vehicle with $0 down, but I'd end up paying $100 a month more in payments (which I can afford just fine) for a 72 month term. Over the term I'm only paying ~$1100 in interest, so despite the long term, that isn't really bad right? (I am under the impression that the reason 60-72 month loans are so bad is because they eat you alive in interest).

I would like a new car for the warranty/maintenance reasons and I would try to keep it for 10+ years. That should be easy because I only put about 8k on a car yearly. Is there something foolish about this that I am going to be regretting?

Dealers offering to buy out your lease aren't doing it as a favor, they are doing it because they can make a fortune off you on the vehicle they are selling. Looking at a monthly payment is the worst way to look at buying a car. If you are buying focus on the all inclusive price and if you are leasing focus on the cap cost.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Dreadite posted:

Hey guys, what's the lesser of two evils here?

I have a lease right now that is affordable for me (around $200 a month) and I've put very little miles on it. However, I really don't like the "renting" aspect of it, I don't like driving the car very much, and I think I'd rather buy a new car.

Dealerships right now are willing to buy out my lease entirely and give me 1% financing on a new vehicle with $0 down, but I'd end up paying $100 a month more in payments (which I can afford just fine) for a 72 month term. Over the term I'm only paying ~$1100 in interest, so despite the long term, that isn't really bad right? (I am under the impression that the reason 60-72 month loans are so bad is because they eat you alive in interest).

I would like a new car for the warranty/maintenance reasons and I would try to keep it for 10+ years. That should be easy because I only put about 8k on a car yearly. Is there something foolish about this that I am going to be regretting?
How much is the car, not the payments.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Dreadite posted:

I am under the impression that the reason 60-72 month loans are so bad is because they eat you alive in interest

I agree wholeheartedly with the previous two posters but want to add that while that is indeed one reason why such long loans are bad, there is another reason: your vehicle loses value the moment you drive it off the lot, and the lower your payments, the longer it takes for you to get right-side-up on the loan. Even with a decent down payment you can wind up staying underwater (that is, owing more than the vehicle is worth) for years.

That's bad because:
1. You must either purchase "gap insurance" at an extra cost, or risk an accidental total loss of the vehicle resulting in an insurance payout that does not pay off your loan, which results in you being required to cough up the remaining amount immediately;
2. You cannot sell the car without having to cover the difference in cash.

You can of course compound this problem by trading in an underwater car for another new car, because the dealer will be happy to add the extra money into your new loan.

This is how people wind up paying $40,000 for a car that was only worth $20,000 new.

Here is what I suggest.
First, deal in terms of total amounts, not monthly payments. Dealerships always want to sell people on monthly payments because this tactic makes it easier for them to overcharge customers and/or sell them a more expensive car than they can actually reasonably afford.
Second, deal with your lease on its own. Either pay off the lease now, or find someone to take it over. This will cost you a lot of money so your best option is to see the lease out to its completion and take your lumps on your long-term car rental.
Third, if/when you decide to buy a brand new car, save up a nice fat down payment, borrow the rest for the shortest period you can, and get the best interest rate you can for that period. Ideally this will be three years, maybe four years at a stretch. Not loving six years.

Dreadite
Dec 31, 2004

College Slice

Don Lapre posted:

How much is the car, not the payments.

Exactly. I made sure to haggle quotes from multiple dealers to see who could give me the lowest "cash price" on the vehicle. I also made sure to calculate the total amount of interest paid on the loan for the length of the term. The payments are going to be relatively low because the interest rates being offered right now are ridiculous. It can be cheaper (monthly) to buy a new car than a 3 year old car- but obviously that makes it easy to lose sight of the total cost of the purchase.

In the end, I'm still not sure what I'm going to do except be tired of paying for a lease that I don't actually like. First world problems.

pants on head
Feb 4, 2012
Hello car and money goons, please tell me what to do. I am considering getting a used car.

Musts: cheap, good mpg, reliable/doesn't break all the time, under 75k ish miles
Would be nice: manual transmission, a five door hatchback

Budget: I'm not really clear on this. My SO was considering buying me this, and his suggested budget was under $10k. I am not really comfortable with being a kept woman, but I'm also stingy so I'm not sure where to go on this. He does computers and I'm an academic so basically I will never make as much money as him (please feel free to encourage me to accept and convince me I won't be a bad feminist if I let him). ANYWAY, assuming I buy it myself...
Income: Last year's AGI was $25k. This year and next year will be about $5k more each, then in academic year 2013-14 it'll be much less, around $22k.
Assets: $10,000ish in cash, $8600 of which is in a savings account and stands as my emergency fund. $10,000 in a brokerage account with Vanguard. $15,500 in a Roth IRA, obviously not for touching.
Debts: I pay off my credit cards every month. I still owe $600 on ongoing dental work, which is not accruing interest and will be paid off in September. I have a subsidized direct loan of about $17k which is deferred until 6 months after I graduate, which hopefully will be May 2013.
Expenses: My share of groceries, utilities, rent, etc. is about $700/month. In addition to that my personal expenses vary widely from month to month but we can say $350 necessary, sometimes more if it's time to buy pet supplies or insurance or go to the vet or whatever. I also save $400 a month right now (only 10 months a year due to my pay schedule). Non-essential spending varies widely but could be reined in if necessary.

I would really like to be able to pay off my student loan basically as soon as I graduate because holding debt makes me feel vaguely ill. I should probably get over that. This is also the issue with getting a car. SO, my actual question is: Does it make sense for me to take a loan to get a car, or should I pay cash? If I should get a loan, how much should I put down? And a secondary question, which perhaps should be first, am I in a position where I should be spending money on the costs of owning a car? (I'm insured already through the aforementioned boyfriend, and I wouldn't be driving very much or far so gas would be fairly minimal. He can also do basic maintenance.).

After that I would also like opinions on the following cars if anyone has any: Chevrolet Aveo, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Nissan Versa, Suzuki SX4 AWD, Mazda2, anything like them. Honda Fits are too expensive used but I like them :(

pants on head fucked around with this message at 23:05 on May 18, 2012

Harry
Jun 13, 2003

I do solemnly swear that in the year 2015 I will theorycraft my wallet as well as my WoW
Unless you're doing something with that $10,000 in the brokerage account, I'd suggest just to use that to keep life simple. I'm sure you guys will be together forever, but if you aren't worrying about whether or not you'll have a car after the split wouldn't be worth it.

Realistically, the costs of owning a car isn't that much. You can fit it in if your expenses are really what you say they are.

Also, personally I thought the Yaris I drove was kind of crappy. It was a rental though.

pants on head
Feb 4, 2012
That's a good idea. I didn't have any plans for the brokerage money. It is from relatives. the boy and I have been together for 9 and a half years or so and now live together, so I am not worried about splitting. It is a good point however.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.
If you arn't in a hurry, calculate the car payment and pay it to yourself every month into an account and see how much it hurts you.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

pants on head posted:

After that I would also like opinions on the following cars if anyone has any: Chevrolet Aveo, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Nissan Versa, Suzuki SX4 AWD, Mazda2, anything like them. Honda Fits are too expensive used but I like them :(

I don't know about the Suzuki so I won't comment on it. The Yaris, Focus, Versa, and Mazda are all reliable, quality vehicles. Chevrolets from before maybe 2010 or so I'd say are questionable (as are Chryslers) in terms of longevity, with some specific exceptions, but on the other hand as domestics they're generally cheap to fix (with notable exceptions).

Since you want a hatchback, I'd add to your list something like a Mazda Protege5 (2001 to 2003), Subaru Outbacks/Legacies of various vintages (if you can afford one), the Toyota Matrix, the Ford Fiesta, and honda civic hatchback models.

I think depending on where you live, you can get a decent ~8 year old or so model with under 100k on it for under $10k. Depending on what condition you'll accept, you could get closer to $5k for several of the above models.

In general people tend to overemphasize "reliability". Modern vehicles have engines that can last 200k+ miles when properly maintained, with a few exceptions. There are specific maintenance tasks which cost significant money but should always be done on time, such as timing belt changes on vehicles with interference engines, replacement of worn tires, and maintenance of various components (suspension, steering, brakes, transmission).

But if you can buy a good car with 120k miles for $5k, even if it costs you an extra $500 a year in maintenance it's still a much better financial deal than a $12k car with half the miles.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





On the Mazda2, I test-drove one and absolutely loved it; the only thing that stops me from having one right now is the power (and now other life changes that may make a subcompact hatch a bad idea). Fantastic little driver's car, I know Phone has one but I think he's still on probation. It's not quite as fully featured as the competition and the fuel economy isn't quite as good but it's just a hoot to drive.

With that said, if you're just looking for an appliance, listen to Leperflesh. Modern cars have come a long, long way. Twenty years ago, 100k on most cars meant it was pretty well used up, and cars that could do 200k were considered exceptionally reliable. These days, any Civic or Corolla that so much as gets half of the oil changes required as well as any major maintenance (like timing belts) will easily make it to 200k, and realistically, that will also go for a lot of other cars.

Focus far less on miles and age, and far more on a car you like to drive in as good as condition as possible. Super-low miles are just as bad as super-high, and if you want trouble free without having to pay for something with a warranty, your best bet is to buy a used car that has a solid history of being maintained on schedule. Deferred maintenance and a lack of mechanical sympathy from the driver are the two things that will turn what would normally be a good used car into a terrible one.

pants on head
Feb 4, 2012

Leperflesh posted:

In general people tend to overemphasize "reliability". Modern vehicles have engines that can last 200k+ miles when properly maintained, with a few exceptions. There are specific maintenance tasks which cost significant money but should always be done on time, such as timing belt changes on vehicles with interference engines, replacement of worn tires, and maintenance of various components (suspension, steering, brakes, transmission).

Thanks for your advice. I would be perfectly happy to follow it in regards to cheaper car with more mileage. I'm not looking for my dream car at the moment or anything, just something to get me places now and then. As for reliability: its importance to me comes from my first car, which was a 1998 New Beetle. It had a lot of stupid small problems (headlight connection that came loose all the time, overheating issues, power windows that sometimes didn't come back up...), and now my dad uses it and it has problems at least a couple of times a year. It may have been a lemon but it soured me on buying cars without emphasizing reliability!

Thanks to others who have responded, too :)

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





That's called "every late-'90s to early-'00s Volkswagen ever". Yours wasn't just a lemon, VW was going through a really bad patch then.

There's still occasionally a given car to avoid but reliability is far more the norm than before.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

pants on head posted:


After that I would also like opinions on the following cars if anyone has any: Chevrolet Aveo, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Nissan Versa, Suzuki SX4 AWD, Mazda2, anything like them. Honda Fits are too expensive used but I like them :(

Aveo: Cheap. no real consistent problems but poor build quality throughout, poor crash test ratings.

Yaris: OK but probably will be expensive. Mediocre crash test ratings.

Focus: The generation from around 2008 to 2011 was decently reliable and cheap, albeit really ugly and only got mediocre fuel economy. It was also only available as a sedan. The generation from before that was available as a hatch, but they are old cars at this point and were never great on reliability. Depending on price a very late model, from around 06-07 might be all right since they've mostly worked out the bugs by then but it's still an old car with old car crash test ratings. There is a new generation now but you probably won't find one for $10k and the reliability is unknown, especially since the versions with the automatic transmission (the "Dual clutch gearbox") are pretty new technology and have already had teething problems.

Nissan Versa: Cheapest new car in America. Also the worst crash test ratings this side of a 1990s Ford Ranger, a deathtrap with a terrible interior. Pretty reliable though.

Suzuki SX4: No one loving owns one so no one knows anything about it, the reliability on the various surveys are all pretty bad, plus there just aren't many dealerships around to work on them.

Mazda2: This car is brand new, can you really get them for $10k?

Here's my advice in general: "B segment" cars like the Yaris or Fiesta are never really very good deals because being small doesn't really net you any advantage unless you lived in a European style city with very limited parking. The fuel economy isn't really much better than cars a size bigger, they will have much less equipment and options and often poorer crash test ratings because the carmakers don't make much money from them, and comparatively few people in America actually buy them new so there aren't that many of them on the used market. Better to look at C segment cars like the Chevy Cruze or D segment cars like the Malibu.

That being said, I think the ideal car for you is a Kia Soul.

- It's a hatchback.

- It came out in 2009 as a 2010 model, just early enough that you can get one used for right around your price range, and most of the steep depreciation has already passed.

- 2009 was around the time when Hyundai/Kia were starting to get really good with reliability and safety, it has quite decent crash test ratings.

- They actually sold a whole bunch of them too so you can find one easily used.

- Kias come with a 5 year, 60k mile warranty that is fully transferable, so a 20010 Kia will still have about 2 years of factory warranty coverage. The 10 year 100k mile power train warranty does not transfer but you can get it if you buy a Certified Pre-Owned(CPO) car from a Kia dealer.

The only downsides I can see is that the automatic transmission is only a 4 speed which is pretty passe compared to the more expensive models and may not have quite as good fuel economy, you're better off if you can drive stick. Also it looks kind of dumb.

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

Throatwarbler posted:

Focus: The generation from before that was available as a hatch, but they are old cars at this point and were never great on reliability.

All good advice, I just wanted to share my experiences with this.

I was researching cheap 5 speed hatches a few years ago, and I came away pretty impressed with that generation of Focus. I didn't really see people saying they were unreliable (except for the 2000 model, the first year). Maybe slightly less than the gold standard, but very underrated, reliability wise.

Anecdotal, obviously, but I bought one with 140k miles (poor student) had no problems with mine before selling (for the price I bought it for) it for parking availability reasons, and the girlfriend's, which we bought at 120k miles is still been going strong at ~160k now. The 5 speed hatch was reasonably fun to drive too, considering the price range of the car of course. We bought both right around $3k, and they've both worked out great.

Eggplant Wizard
Jul 8, 2005


i loev catte
I am moving this to A/T so it can serve as the general car recommendation thread. I hope you all will continue to post with your wise BFC thoughts.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Eggplant Wizard posted:

I am moving this to A/T so it can serve as the general car recommendation thread. I hope you all will continue to post with your wise BFC thoughts.

Sweet. I personally love recommending cars to people, but for the love of god if anyone asks for a car recommendation, please provide some background information. Someone who commutes 100 miles a day by themselves and values gas mileage and comfort would get a different recommendation than someone that wants to tow a pair of JetSki's to the lake every weekend.

It's useful to know all sorts of stuff in order to make an informed decision. I would even suggest a template.

Budget? The amount of money you want to spend on a car
New or Used? Self Explanatory.
Body Style 2 door? 4 door? Compact/Midsize/Fullsize Sedan? Truck? SUV?
Special Uses/Needs/Features Do you tow things? Haul more than 5 people on a regular basis? Have a super long commute? How are you going to use this vehicle? Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?

Eggplant Wizard
Jul 8, 2005


i loev catte
I will add such a thing to the OP.

pants on head
Feb 4, 2012

Thanks, this is really helpful! I have no idea how to research these things. It's hard to tell a useful review site from a car-selling site, since many of them seem to do double duty. I'm basically going by whether or not I think the car is cute, which did not work out well for the beetle.

I will definitely consider the cars you recommended, although the Kia is puuuhrreeetty ugly. It looks like a small SUV. If we can find a cheap one I'll give it a try. The boyfriend likes the Mazda Protege idea better (thanks, Leperflesh!). We'll consider everything you guys said. Thanks again, everyone :)

The Young Marge
Jul 19, 2006

but no one can talk to a horse, of course.
Hello! I need a car and would gladly accept some advice. Is there any such thing as a cool-looking station wagon?

Budget?
- Up to $16k.

New or Used?
- Lightly used.

Body Style?
- 4 door, hatchback/wagon. I am totally not interested in an SUV or minivan. A hybrid would be nice, or just something with excellent gas mileage.

Special Uses/Needs/Features?
- Must easily accommodate child seats. Must be able to fit musical gear (a hatch or wagon with foldable back seats would make this much easier). I want something very efficient but with plenty of cargo space. In addition, I would like it to not look totally derpy. So, basically a mom car that doesn't look too mommish.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Mazda3 (optionally as the turbo Mazdaspeed3) but I'm biased :)

I will say this, the car seat factor will make this tight so I hope you aren't too terribly tall. I've got one on the way and will need to put a carseat in my '07 Mazdaspeed3 and it won't have room enough to move the passenger seat very far back. Fuel economy isn't class-leading but most of the cars that do get better mileage are smaller or not available as a five-door hatch anyway.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



The Young Marge posted:

Hello! I need a car and would gladly accept some advice. Is there any such thing as a cool-looking station wagon?

Budget?
- Up to $16k.

New or Used?
- Lightly used.

Body Style?
- 4 door, hatchback/wagon. I am totally not interested in an SUV or minivan. A hybrid would be nice, or just something with excellent gas mileage.

Special Uses/Needs/Features?
- Must easily accommodate child seats. Must be able to fit musical gear (a hatch or wagon with foldable back seats would make this much easier). I want something very efficient but with plenty of cargo space. In addition, I would like it to not look totally derpy. So, basically a mom car that doesn't look too mommish.

2008 VW Passat Wagon - http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...315952797&Log=0

That one is higher but easily found under 16k.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...315634370&Log=0

Literally Lewis Hamilton fucked around with this message at 04:06 on May 22, 2012

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
If a Toyota Prius can carry the number of children and instruments you need then it's hard to think of anything better. It legitimately gets the best mileage of any commonly available car in the US and is otherwise a great car with all kinds of neat doodads like the solar panel on the roof that keeps the AC going on sunny days when the car is parked, even radar cruise control on 2010+ models.

If you want something a little bigger there is the Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute Hybrid triplets. Yes they are "SUVs" but I wouldn't get too hung up on the nomenclature - people who buy these things use the for the same purpose that you do, it's just that more people feel better about themselves by calling it an SUV than the other way around so that's what carmakers call them. The hybrids are all FWD, you can't take them off road or anything, so who cares.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

The Young Marge posted:

Hello! I need a car and would gladly accept some advice. Is there any such thing as a cool-looking station wagon?

Budget?
- Up to $16k.

New or Used?
- Lightly used.

Body Style?
- 4 door, hatchback/wagon. I am totally not interested in an SUV or minivan. A hybrid would be nice, or just something with excellent gas mileage.

Special Uses/Needs/Features?
- Must easily accommodate child seats. Must be able to fit musical gear (a hatch or wagon with foldable back seats would make this much easier). I want something very efficient but with plenty of cargo space. In addition, I would like it to not look totally derpy. So, basically a mom car that doesn't look too mommish.

Mazda3 will be a fantastic choice. There's a ton of them out there in various trims and options, and they are a capable people and thing carrier.

Another excellent option would be either a first generation Honda Fit with it's magic folding seats, or spring an extra $1-2k and pick up a brand new one with the manufacturer's warranty.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

The Young Marge posted:

Wagon requirements

There's not many station wagon type vehicles out there anymore. Even if a manufacturer makes one, they tend not to make very many making them pretty rare and difficult to find used. The Passat Bovril mentioned would be a good choice... VW has gotten better in terms of reliability.

Depending on your area you might be able to find a Subaru Outback in your price range, but the gas mileage isn't the best and they hold their value very well meaning your 16K would probably not go far towards a 'lightly used' model. (Personally I consider lightly used to be under 3 years/40K miles or so).

A Mazda 3 hatchback would be a nice car, but I would worry about putting a rear facing convertible car seat in one.

Have you considered any of the funky boxy looking cars? They have space for tons of stuff and generally get pretty good gas mileage. Scion xB, Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, or even a Honda Element might work.

Oh wait... I forgot a great car to recommend. A Toyota Matrix would be a great car to check out. Fantastic Toyota reliability, it's not boring to look at, and would fit most of your needs pretty well. It should have plenty of room for the car seats, and the rear seats will fold down to give you tons of cargo space. In fact considering your requirements again I would put it on my short list of vehicles to look at. There are a couple Toyota Certified Pre-Owned in my area close to your price range, and you should be able to find a 2009 for under 16K if you look around.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

skipdogg posted:

Oh wait... I forgot a great car to recommend. A Toyota Matrix would be a great car to check out. Fantastic Toyota reliability, it's not boring to look at, and would fit most of your needs pretty well. It should have plenty of room for the car seats, and the rear seats will fold down to give you tons of cargo space. In fact considering your requirements again I would put it on my short list of vehicles to look at. There are a couple Toyota Certified Pre-Owned in my area close to your price range, and you should be able to find a 2009 for under 16K if you look around.

If the Matrix is an option, look for the Pontiac Vibe, too. It's the exact same car except for the logos and slightly unfortunate name; you can buy parts at the Toyota dealership if you want to. And, because it has an American sticker rather than a Japanese sticker on the front, it's cheaper.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Space Gopher posted:

If the Matrix is an option, look for the Pontiac Vibe, too. It's the exact same car except for the logos and slightly unfortunate name; you can buy parts at the Toyota dealership if you want to. And, because it has an American sticker rather than a Japanese sticker on the front, it's cheaper.

Yes. Excellent point. I'm not sure why but I incorrectly thought they stopped making them after MY07 and therefore wouldn't meet the 'lightly used' requirement of the poster. They did indeed make a Model Year 09 and 2010 of the Pontiac Vibe and would be a fantastic value.

A cursory glance at my local autotrader listings show about a 2,000 dollar difference between a comparable Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix, even though they are the exact same car. There's a 2010 with 49,000 miles on it at a local Chevy dealer listed at 14,500. Not a bad deal at all especially if you can get them down a bit. You know they didn't pay anything but low wholesale on that trade in.

Can you say trunk/hatch space?

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Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Mazda3 had a 4 speed auto up to the last reboot, and 25mpg combined is terrible for a C segment car. Actually none of them come close. If fuel economy was the priority I would not consider any of those cars over a Prius.

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