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I've never heard a set of headphones that I get enough bass definition from. I know it's there, but I often find it hard to discern what the bass player is doing. IMHO, Bass needs room to develop.
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May 16, 2012 23:05
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Hammer Floyd posted:I've never heard a set of headphones that I get enough bass definition from. I know it's there, but I often find it hard to discern what the bass player is doing. Simple, combine high quality headphones with one of these, but in audiophile grade of course: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ASIN=B0030N7D6S
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May 17, 2012 02:41
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Hammer Floyd posted:I've never heard a set of headphones that I get enough bass definition from. I know it's there, but I often find it hard to discern what the bass player is doing. There is plenty of bass in good headphones, as in you're getting all the right frequencies delivered straight to your ears with precision. But what's lacking is the tactile feeling in the rest of your body. Ain't no way to get that outside of a set of speakers big enough to drive your neighbors mad, or a bass shaker on your chair.
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May 17, 2012 08:07
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Hammer Floyd posted:I've never heard a set of headphones that I get enough bass definition from. I know it's there, but I often find it hard to discern what the bass player is doing. A lot of the time this is down to lovely mixing where the drummer and bass player are playing in a similar frequency range. Even the relatively crappy Sennheiser CX300 in ears I use can manage when the actual track itself is good enough.
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May 17, 2012 10:45
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Detailed brights simply means the high frequencies like snare drums etc are more pronounced than other speakers. I like my pronounced high frequencies. If you want to slap yourself in the face for enjoying how your speakers sound, perhaps there are other factors that need addressing.
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May 18, 2012 19:33
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Keep in mind there is a big difference between liking how your speakers sound and telling your friends "oh my god, the detailed brights!" I mean, maybe all my friends are neanderthals but the phrase "detailed brights" would be code for "punch me".
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May 19, 2012 23:50
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http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary Pace - Often assoc. with rhythm, a strong sense of timing and beat. Rhythm - The controlled movement of sounds in time. Timing - A sense of precision in tempo. And (ewww) Musical (or musicality) - A sense of cohesion and subjective "rightness" in the sound. Gromit, how do we talk to our friends about frequency response? If I tell you that my system has a higher response in the 4khz - 8kHz range will you go to sleep instead of punching me?
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May 20, 2012 03:48
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Waldo P Barnstormer posted:http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary As a clasically-trained musician and recording engineer I can safely say that no gear could possibly have any effect on the first three. If there's a system so bad out there that it can actually disrupt the tempo of a recording, that poo poo is mad broken, and no $6000 power cable or wooden stereo knobs are going to fix it, either. And I'm just sitting here holding my head in my hands over that fourth definition. I know we all realise that audiophiles listen to sound and not music, but to see them actually define musicality as "right" sound reproduction...do they even understand that there were real people involved in the production of that recording in the first place? 
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May 20, 2012 06:06
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The Beats earbuds sound like I have my ear next to a box fan with a bass drum behind it, but I'd still say what they play is music. That's a retarded definition.
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May 20, 2012 06:36
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It's no mistake the acronym for Pace, Rhythm and Timing is PRaT.
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May 20, 2012 06:53
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Penguissimo posted:As a clasically-trained musician and recording engineer I can safely say that no gear could possibly have any effect on the first three. If there's a system so bad out there that it can actually disrupt the tempo of a recording, that poo poo is mad broken, and no $6000 power cable or wooden stereo knobs are going to fix it, either. Generally speaking what they mean for the first three is if the notes are distinguishable from each other, from what I've found. I can understand that it would be difficult to follow a song's rhythm if the bass line is a single modulating tone rather than a set of discrete ones.
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May 20, 2012 12:30
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Waldo P Barnstormer posted:Gromit, how do we talk to our friends about frequency response? If I tell you that my system has a higher response in the 4khz - 8kHz range will you go to sleep instead of punching me? I wouldn't talk to them about it. I could think of few things that would make me sound like a pretentious twat than telling my friends about the frequency response of my drivers. This all changes if your friends are audio nuts, of course. But almost no-one is one of those. Statistically you'd probably be better off talking about child porn.
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May 21, 2012 12:02
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Gromit posted:I wouldn't talk to them about it. I could think of few things that would make me sound like a pretentious twat than telling my friends about the frequency response of my drivers.
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May 21, 2012 12:45
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I wouldn't talk to my friends about anything to do with stereos unless they specifically asked. I'm a bit of a closet geek. Thats why my outlet is the Internet, where I can read about boring poo poo that interests me. At the same time, I equate the term Audiophile to mean Audio equipment hobbyist, which I certainly am. The people we're making light of, are gullible idiots, who happen to be audio hobbyists. You can find the same types in any hobby circle. Go to corral.net and search for tps adjustments. It's as out of control as coloured moon rocks for your speaker cable.
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May 21, 2012 23:47
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No, what I'm saying is my circle of friends would think less of me for having a conversation that featured the phrase "detailed brights" or any talk about the frequency response of my speakers. That's it. I have no idea if your friends dig that sort of thing or not. I'm telling you I would sound like a wanker saying these things within my group of peers. And judging by other posts in this thread, I'm not alone in this. Also, this specific thread is for ridiculing audiophiles. I can't think of a more apt target than someone for who "detailed brights" is a reasonable phrase. Who else would use that term?
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May 21, 2012 23:49
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Gromit posted:No, what I'm saying is my circle of friends would think less of me for having a conversation that featured the phrase "detailed brights" or any talk about the frequency response of my speakers. Actually, the thread is making fun of people who do unscientific silly things with their gear and spend way too much for very diminished if not non-existent gains. You can try to ridicule me for using a very common term used for a very common speaker brand, but you're just coming off as someone who wants to make fun of audiophiles without knowing very basic things about the hobby. Hint: I don't know very much about particle physics, so I don't make fun of particle physicists when they say things that seem silly to me.
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May 21, 2012 23:55
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I have to agree with jonathan, I'm on a military base in Afghanistan and I've heard much worse audiophile fag poo poo here than "detailed brights". The manliest SF guy I've ever met said something about recessed mids on my Pro 900s last night, that's about the same level, and we've had some pretty intense talks about the frequency response on their headsets (which aren't bad, by the way, and they're made by Koss). I'd get kicked in the junk if I started talking about cables that give music deeper blacks or more accurate attack or some poo poo like that, but I think "detailed brights" is just a way people in the know say "boosted treble".
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May 22, 2012 02:56
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Pudgygiant posted:think "detailed brights" is just a way people in the know say "boosted treble". Then why not just say 'boosted treble', which is understandable by everyone? Hardly anybody in the professional audio world talks this way.
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May 22, 2012 03:15
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Neurophonic posted:Then why not just say 'boosted treble', which is understandable by everyone? Hardly anybody in the professional audio world talks this way. Actually, the professional audio world will regularly describe a speaker as sounding "too bright". It's very very common. It's a side effect of using horn loaded tweeters. The reason you don't say "boosted treble" is because that's not what this is. The treble isn't too loud, horn tweeters are very efficient and very detailed versus many other tweeter designs, and you can hear the difference clearly even when the frequency reponse doesn't show elevated db for that frequency range. This is why people describe them as sounding "bright", because they aren't loud, they just sound more crisp, and often beyond what people find enjoyable. Bright detailed speakers often uncover recording and mastering issues that other speakers will not, just check the DIY speaker build thread for all sorts of design examples which exhibit this. Or call me a fag and return to making fun of idiots.
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May 22, 2012 04:44
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If your friends will think less of you and want to punch you for saying detailed brights, being an audiophile is the least of your problems.
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May 22, 2012 04:49
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I think "too bright" can sometimes translate to "the frequency response is too bumpy at the top". A cymbal sound that sounds good on a reasonably flat system will sound harsh and piercing if played on a system with tall peaks that happen to line up with the cymbal's frequencies in the right way. meanwhile another cymbal sound with a different frequency profile might sound fine or might sound kind of muffled if it fits into troughs in the system's frequency response.
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May 22, 2012 05:23
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jonathan posted:The treble isn't too loud, horn tweeters are very efficient and very detailed versus many other tweeter designs, and you can hear the difference clearly even when the frequency reponse doesn't show elevated db for that frequency range. There's also efficiency and dispersion but those things don't directly affect how the speakers sound at the optimal positioning in a well-treated room.
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May 22, 2012 05:29
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Hammer Floyd posted:I've never heard a set of headphones that I get enough bass definition from. I know it's there, but I often find it hard to discern what the bass player is doing. Keep in mind that in order for the attack and muting of notes to sound right, you need a sufficiently flat frequency response across a wide bandwidth. It's not enough to just have good bass response, because it can muffle the notes and make them run together. I find that while closed-back headphones tend to make the bass more intense, open-back headphones tend to make it clearer.
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May 22, 2012 06:39
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Socket Ryanist posted:What does "detailed" mean? In scientific terms, please. As far as actual physics is concerned, there are only two properties that affect the sound of a speaker: frequency response and linearity. Most high end speakers are "linear enough" in that their nonlinearity isn't audible, so the only remaining property that you can hear is frequency response I don't think its frequency response. I think its a pitch shift, either more accurate or less accurate versus a standard dome tweeter, depending on the scenario. I find horn loaded to be especially accurate with horn instruments such as jazz recordings, and with cymbal crashes. Detailed means the ability for the speakers to play subtle nuances in music that you might not pick up as clearly with a different set of speakers. Early Type O Negative albums are a good example of this on guitar. Its basically exactly how you described your closed vs open back headphones. jonathan fucked around with this message at 14:44 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 14:40
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Pudgygiant posted:I'm on a military base in Afghanistan and I've heard much worse audiophile fag poo poo here than "detailed brights". Do you think the lack of women and booze has anything to do with that?
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May 22, 2012 22:16
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Pudgygiant posted:I have to agree with jonathan, I'm on a military base in Afghanistan and I've heard much worse audiophile fag poo poo here than "detailed brights". Tell us more about the fag poo poo you hear 
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May 22, 2012 22:27
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yaoi prophet posted:Tell us more about the fag poo poo you hear I don't really talk audiophile stuff with my friends. Nobody wants to be told that their expensive sony system is made from cheap plastic and sounds boomy. I always harp on about component and hdmi video cables to the gamers and that seems to annoy them enough 
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May 23, 2012 10:48
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Sometimes when you guys talk, I feel like I don't know anything anymore, despite producing my own music for 8 years. I reckon alot of this stuff shouldn't ever be described in words because everyone has a different idea of what bright and detailed "sounds" like. Using terms of reference like this is only useful if you keep the internal logic of it to yourself. If you have to use words to describe what something sounds like, you gotta put it into practice so you make a connection in your brain between what you are reading, seeing on your screen and hearing in your headphones. I don't understand what is meant by "hearing frequency response". I use FFT analysis alot so I am familiar with some of the concepts as they relates to music production. I have a basic understanding of the maths behind fourier transforms but any sound engineering student would have me beat. WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 13:44 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 13:34
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WanderingKid posted:I reckon alot of this stuff shouldn't ever be described in words because everyone has a different idea of what bright and detailed "sounds" like. Using terms of reference like this is only useful if you keep the internal logic of it to yourself. I agree to an extent, graphs can only say so much and many speakers look excellent on paper (flat frequency response, good impulse response, impedance curves and group delay) but sound god awful when they get anywhere near a decent level of power. There's simply no substitute for listening to a speaker for yourself, ideally in an ideal acoustic environment (eg. outdoors with no nearby boundaries) using good quality source material. In the world of PA that can often be done because when you're talking that kind of money there's always some form of demo to be arranged, but one of the things that annoys me most about 'audiophile' stuff is that they seem to actively work away from that ideal and write posts thousands of words long describing a speakers' sound like it's gospel. When was the last time anybody on Head-Fi or similar opened their post with 'this is just my opinion'?
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May 23, 2012 16:08
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yaoi prophet posted:Tell us more about the fag poo poo you hear audiophile fag poo poo. Although I did hear some guy call dibs on the middle seat in a truck the other day 
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May 24, 2012 06:55
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jonathan posted:I don't think its frequency response. I think its a pitch shift, either more accurate or less accurate versus a standard dome tweeter, depending on the scenario. I find horn loaded to be especially accurate with horn instruments such as jazz recordings, and with cymbal crashes.
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May 24, 2012 07:24
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This is a stupid argument and we should get back to making fun of $6000 battery powered monoblocks. At 115wpc RMS into 8-ohms (230wpc into 4-ohms), Liliana is the first commercially produced battery-powered amplifier to unite “iron-fisted” high-current FET output with a “velvet glove” warmth and character only found in vacuum tubes. Users of revealing systems know that their performance rides on AC power conditions. Many systems sound far better at night when the power grid is loaded less. Taking a system or at least its core components off that grid minimizes or removes the frustrations over fluctuating performance. A Red Wine system of digital iPod dock fed from their DAC/pre's auxiliary DC output (or a laptop in DC mode) plus Liliana monos sounds the same at all times. It doesn't give a toss about aircon in your or your neighbor's pad, floor board heaters, nasty light dimmers, Internet routers or big industrial power users. http://redwineaudio.com/components/liliana Now I need an audiophile battery charger 
A Lone Girl Flier fucked around with this message at 08:39 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 08:34
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Waldo P Barnstormer posted:At 115wpc RMS into 8-ohms (230wpc into 4-ohms), Liliana is the first commercially produced battery-powered amplifier to unite “iron-fisted” high-current FET output with a “velvet glove” warmth and character only found in vacuum tubes. For some reason the fact that they saw the need to print "8-ohms" instead of "8 ohms" irritates me more than the existence of the actual product. Should I Google to see what "tube-rolling" means to get my rage properly on? EDIT: Oh it means switching to another tube. That's disappointing since swapping the tube actually might make a noticeable difference in sound, depending on the design of the amp. 3D Megadoodoo fucked around with this message at 15:30 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 15:24
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jonathan posted:You can try to ridicule me for using a very common term used for a very common speaker brand, but you're just coming off as someone who wants to make fun of audiophiles without knowing very basic things about the hobby. Nope, you still sound like an audiophile wanker for using the phrase "detailed brights". I just did a straw poll around the office and the vote was unanimous.
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May 25, 2012 03:19
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The problem with "detailed brights" is that both words are adjectives so it makes little sense on its own. Though there is a lot of nonsensical stuff in this thread that are worse than a linguistically-awkward phrase.
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May 25, 2012 04:54
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I can certainly agree that using this terminology is nothing like buying sound-enhancing hifi stones, but to normal people it really does sound pretentious, which is where I was going with this to begin with. Ah, I'm sure we can move on from this now anyway. There's got to be another wooden volume knob being sold for 3 figures somewhere.
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May 25, 2012 06:04
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When it comes to car enthusiasts, I hear poo poo like crisp highs and good low frequency response and poo poo bandied about by idiots with a Sony head unit from Walmart. Audiophile terminology catches on with people because it makes them sound like they know what they're talking about. You see the same thing with computers too.
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May 25, 2012 13:10
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Lows and highs (or low and high frequencies) are pretty much universally used and understood though - not to mention they actually make sense as terms.
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May 25, 2012 13:39
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In production however you have alot of sound shaping control so when people talk about a song sounding muddy, it is something you have control over during the mixdown with EQs and filters and just good mixing technique. When I mix something and it sounds like crap, I usually don't think of the problem being with my speakers - its almost always because my mixing was sloppy. If the hihats don't have enough sibilance you can compensate for that by amping up the higher frequencies with an EQ or by just mixing it better. Part of the reason why hihats could get lost in the mix is because they are being masked by other instruments and you have failed to make them stand out in the mix. In the end I think alot of the issues are down to mixing technique. If you listen to the finished mix on a set of speakers that are really different to the ones used to mix the song then it will of course sound different but after so many years of mixing, I think I've gotten into the habit of thinking about the whole thing in very relative terms. I use reference tracks for everything so its not terribly important what speakers I'm using to mix. I just need some anchor (the reference track) to tell me when I'm going way off base. For example, the last reference track I used was Under the Influence (Chemical Brothers) which has enormous bass. Why? I was writing a dance track and I wanted enormous bass. I often mix at home on crappy earbuds and you don't really feel that bass so you tend to be mixing blind. If my mix has way more bass energy than Under the Influence however, I know I've done something wrong because if I play it on a soundsystem that can put out big bass, it will be too much. So I think of the whole thing in relative terms, not in specific terms whereas that glossary attempts to nail down very subjective and relative things by attempting to give them absolute definitions. The other thing I never do is say stuff like "to fix weak sounding kick drums you need to to boost 60hz and 180hz by x dB" because put simply - it will be different for every kick drum. Theres are approximate ranges where it is appropriate to use EQ but I couldn't be exact unless I have a specific sound to work with. I never think of sibilance in terms of an exactly defined frequency range because it varies depending on the sound. To get rid of sibilance (de-ess) on vocals, the range where you want de-essing to occur will vary depending on the singer and to a lesser extent, the microphone used to record their voice. Really good technical vocalists can work with any mic (Michael Jackson is an oft used example because he could do barnstorming performances on anything and regularly used cheap mics like SM58s). WanderingKid fucked around with this message at 14:04 on May 25, 2012 |
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May 25, 2012 13:50
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Have the $1,000 power cable buying morons ruined the hobby enough that anybody talking about audio sounds crazy? I personally haven't listened to Klipsch speakers, but I've always heard that the horn tweeters have a unique "brighter" sound to them. SentinelXS fucked around with this message at 07:01 on May 27, 2012 |
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May 26, 2012 22:57
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