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Except that rather than resolving naturally, all the character arcs in FF13 sputter out and die when everyone makes a big monologue and gets over their issues near-simultaneously in Chapter 9, reducing them all to multicolored exposition dispensers for the rest of the game. That, plus the introduction of Barthandalus, pretty much kills the story dead. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 11:23 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 11:21
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I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. 
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May 22, 2012 11:40
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Oxxidation posted:Except that rather than resolving naturally, all the character arcs in FF13 sputter out and die when everyone makes a big monologue and gets over their issues near-simultaneously in Chapter 9, reducing them all to multicolored exposition dispensers for the rest of the game. That, plus the introduction of Barthandalus, pretty much kills the story dead. Snow carrying Hope on his back was on Cocoon, I seem to remember Vanille and Sazh's arc closing around the same time, but Vanille's secret with Fang came out in Ch 11(?), and Serah-Snow-Lightning persisted all the way into Pulse. Yeah, after the character arcs were done, they should have shifted to the main line story better, but those moments when the character arcs were center stage really were good. Like, the presentation, setting, animation and gasp the voice acting in those parts were really top notch. I can't say that the other post-FMV FF's really compare in that regard. Yeah, the rest of the story is poo poo and there's a ton of other problems with FF13, but they did do that one thing right, and really right. It's part of the reason that I'm not so interested in FF13-2, because without decent character interactions, I really don't see how I can get through 80 hours of FF13.
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May 22, 2012 11:53
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Saoshyant posted:I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. Alright then, I propose the following bullshit theories: 1) It's all a dying dream from Nora as she plummets to her death. That explains why everything is so schizophrenic and everything goes to shite - it's a dream, it doesn't have to make sense. 2) It's a trip into Snow's mind, and every character there is a representation of his psyche: Hope is young Snow, Lightning is his feminine side and super-ego, Vanille is his suppressed homoerotic tendancies for Australians, Fang is his ego, Sazh is his how he wants to be seen by others, and Snow is his own id. And something about Anima and an incestuous lesbian motorbike. 3) Barthandelus is actually Lightning from the future, after a sexchange, trying to stop him/herself from allowing Etro to uncrystalise them at the end. 4) The Chickabo did it. He was the true enemy and servant of the gods, aiding the party to further his own unholy crusade. Or some poo poo like that.
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May 22, 2012 13:12
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Sazh dies in Nautilus and the rest of the game is his dying mind trying to put everything together.
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May 22, 2012 13:17
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This Jacket Is Me posted:It's part of the reason that I'm not so interested in FF13-2, because without decent character interactions, I really don't see how I can get through 80 hours of FF13. Good news then, 13-2 is short as hell. I hosed around a considerable amount and still beat the game in about 35 hours. E: VVV You could probably chop 5-10 hours off that total easily. If you ignore everything that's not the main plot, you can probably take it down to 20-25. Artix fucked around with this message at 15:16 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 14:53
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That is still 35 hours of two bright colored blobs screaming "PARADOX LIGHTNING PARADOX PARADOX LIGHTNING CAIUS PARADOX" over and over incoherently.
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May 22, 2012 14:57
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Saoshyant posted:I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. Ha, I love that Ultimecia theory. Never heard the Squall is dead one though.
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May 22, 2012 16:06
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Saoshyant posted:I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. FFXIII's plot is fully explained poo poo and FFVIII is under-explained poo poo. Most people prefer to not know the full extent of how crappy the story is then to have it covered from every single angle. Actually I take that back slightly because with FFXIII I just assumed everything was explained because I sure as hell wasn't going to read their in game encyclopedia just to make sure I had every possible nuance down.
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May 22, 2012 16:13
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Speaking of XIII, I'm still waiting for ANY kind of news regarding Agito. Maybe at E3? 
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May 22, 2012 17:25
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Saoshyant posted:I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. I think you got that backwards actually. FFVIII was so terrible that people had to insert their own fanfiction to improve it. FFXIII meanwhile was bad but it at least had a few nice ideas. It ruined them sure but they were there briefly.
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May 22, 2012 17:25
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Krad posted:Speaking of XIII, I'm still waiting for ANY kind of news regarding Agito. Maybe at E3? Isn't Agito the one named Type-0. It's been out in Japan for a while now with a Vita re-edition coming to the West, AFAIK. vvvv actually, that would be pretty cool. I'd rather play it on my PS3 than buy a Vita for it. Not a chance in hell it will happen, though. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 17:27
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Saoshyant posted:Isn't Agito the one named Type-0. It's been out in Japan for a while now with a Vita re-edition coming to the West, AFAIK. Right, Type-0. They've only been hinting at it, nothing's been officially-officially announced yet. I'm hoping they'll pull a Peace Walker and stuff it in the PS3.
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May 22, 2012 17:37
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Krad posted:Speaking of XIII, I'm still waiting for ANY kind of news regarding Agito. Maybe at E3? All I'm saying, they're out of excuses not to make Versus their next big release. I'll be pretty disappointed if it doesn't have a serious showing at E3 or TGS or anything.
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May 22, 2012 17:45
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Spiritus Nox posted:All I'm saying, they're out of excuses not to make Versus their next big release. I'll be pretty disappointed if it doesn't have a serious showing at E3 or TGS or anything.
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May 22, 2012 17:47
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Pablo Gigante posted:Square Enix already announced their list of games showing at E3, FF Versus XIII wasn't on it Balls! 
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May 22, 2012 17:50
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Versus XIII may come out in 2015, but by then Nomura will want to use a new engine and port the game to the PS4, so 2017. Maybe.NikkolasKing posted:I think you got that backwards actually. I played both and I know which plot I liked and which one I didn't. Thank you. I'll take the monsters on the moon dropping in a funnel to Earth while Squall just whatevers the gently caress out of them, any day.
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May 22, 2012 17:52
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Spiritus Nox posted:Balls! It's okay, I'm sure we'll have XIII-3 by next year to keep us occupied until then. 
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May 22, 2012 17:56
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Saoshyant posted:I'm amused people used to consider FFVIII's plot a trainwreck to the point that the Squall is dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories had to be created to explain the plot. And yet, nothing can save FFXIII. The entire game is a storybook written by Vanille.
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May 22, 2012 18:46
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Saoshyant posted:Versus XIII may come out in 2015, but by then Nomura will want to use a new engine and port the game to the PS4, so 2017. Maybe. I wouldn't. FF8's plot is a thorough trainwreck without any redeeming qualities, and the ones that it might have (child soldiers, Squall/Seifer rivalry, etc.) are buried underneath huge mounds of poo poo. Even XIII's story is better, and it's not like it takes much.
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May 22, 2012 21:16
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Saoshyant posted:
I'm with you dude, FF8 may have been pretty nonsensical but at least it was interesting.
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May 22, 2012 21:25
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Type-0 looks like it has that child soldier thing like early FF8. Does that also get buried under crystals, paradoxes, and Yeul?
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May 22, 2012 21:28
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Level Slide posted:Type-0 looks like it has that child soldier thing like early FF8. Does that also get buried under crystals, paradoxes, and Yeul? It gets buried under zero character development and a really botched latter half of plot.
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May 22, 2012 21:29
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So it's Final Fantasy 8?
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May 22, 2012 21:30
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Level Slide posted:So it's Final Fantasy 8? Now that I think about it... yeah! Yeah it is!
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May 22, 2012 21:37
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Azure_Horizon posted:It gets buried under zero character development and a really botched latter half of plot. Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. FF6- "World of Balance was great, but the World of Ruin is just unfocused wandering." FF7- "Midgar was awesome, but then it turns into another generic JRPG world and more incoherent as the story goes on." FF8- "The Child soldier thing was great, but then it all goes to poo poo after the assassination mission." FF9- "The first two disks were great, but the last two were just bleh."
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May 22, 2012 21:49
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Schwartzcough posted:Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. I don't know about 10 or 12, but I'd probably say that about 13, too. Like I've said before, I liked the plot fine as a device to move the characters forward and watch them develop, but once I was actually expected to care about Space Pope and the characters more or less finished their arcs, it was just bleh, plot-wise. I still had fun with the battles and the specatacle though. Maybe you could say the same about 12 too, now I think about it. It's been even longer since I've played that than with 13, but I seem to remember the latter half of the game having more and more of the long slogs halfway across the world map and through absolutely massive dungeons. The Pharos was kind of epic in concept, but after a while it just begins to beat you down.
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May 22, 2012 21:54
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Schwartzcough posted:Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. Eh, I dunno if it works for IX. The story's still really great in Disc 3 and you have moments like Bahamut v. Alexander and Trance Kuja to really spice the story up. That and Esto Gaza, my favorite FF town. Disc 4 has the greatness of Memoria, which is all it really needs. I think the only legitimate problem with IX's story is Necron.
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May 22, 2012 21:58
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Level Slide posted:So it's Final Fantasy 8? Good, I like 8.  Also: Schwartzcough posted:FF9- "The first
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May 22, 2012 22:04
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Azure_Horizon posted:Eh, I dunno if it works for IX. The story's still really great in Disc 3 and you have moments like Bahamut v. Alexander and Trance Kuja to really spice the story up. That and Esto Gaza, my favorite FF town. Disc 4 has the greatness of Memoria, which is all it really needs. I think the only legitimate problem with IX's story is Necron. Yeah, I don't personally feel IX fell apart all that much later on, but it's a complaint I've heard many times. A lot of people seemed to really not like the You Are Not Alone scene, and I think it tainted everything around it in their minds.
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May 22, 2012 22:05
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Schwartzcough posted:Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. FF8 kept its focus longer than that I think. I'd argue that it's pretty focused up until Edea stops being possessed by Ultimecia. Then things start getting really really screwy. Azure_Horizon posted:Eh, I dunno if it works for IX. The story's still really great in Disc 3 and you have moments like Bahamut v. Alexander and Trance Kuja to really spice the story up. That and Esto Gaza, my favorite FF town. Disc 4 has the greatness of Memoria, which is all it really needs. I think the only legitimate problem with IX's story is Necron. I don't know if it works for IX either, but that's because I hated the entire game. Not once did I feel like I was having fun in that game and I never found any of the characters likeable. So I can't really say if it fell apart cause I didn't really like it to begin with.
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May 22, 2012 22:11
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Epi Lepi posted:FF8 kept its focus longer than that I think. I'd argue that it's pretty focused up until Edea stops being possessed by Ultimecia. Then things start getting really really screwy. I dunno about that at all. The fact that Squall takes a near-fatal wound and then is magically better with no holes in his clothes or any sign of the wound is bizarre enough. Any cohesiveness in FF8 is only felt in Disc 1. Afterward, everything just kind of falls apart. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 22:17 on May 22, 2012 |
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May 22, 2012 22:13
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Schwartzcough posted:Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. Non-linear exploration and progression is considered a negative? 
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May 22, 2012 22:16
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, I don't personally feel IX fell apart all that much later on, but it's a complaint I've heard many times. A lot of people seemed to really not like the You Are Not Alone scene, and I think it tainted everything around it in their minds. I loved Disk 3, especially everything on Terra and that includes You're Not Alone. A very emotional character building moment. But where Disk 3 really shines is in regards to Kuja. You see, Kuja really works as a villain because he's almost in the same boat as the heroes. Oh sure, for the first couple disks he's the same-old smug chessmaster you usually see. Then Disk 3 hits, Garland enters the picture, and suddenly Kuja is freaking the gently caress out. You can tell he's scared as hell and is desperately looking for w way to not die. Everything on Terra is just amazing, whether it's Zidane's origins being revealed or Kuja going Super Saiyan. (really do get a sort of Dragonball vibe from that whole bit) Spiritus Nox posted:I don't know about 10 or 12, but I'd probably say that about 13, too. Like I've said before, I liked the plot fine as a device to move the characters forward and watch them develop, but once I was actually expected to care about Space Pope and the characters more or less finished their arcs, it was just bleh, plot-wise. I feel the same way. XIII is a thoroughly perplexing game because I bitched about the extreme linearity but once we got to Pulse, I missed that linearity. At least poo poo was happening and characters were developing in the first 70% of the game. once everything opens up, the game seems to lose itself. quote:Maybe you could say the same about 12 too, now I think about it. It's been even longer since I've played that than with 13, but I seem to remember the latter half of the game having more and more of the long slogs halfway across the world map and through absolutely massive dungeons. The Pharos was kind of epic in concept, but after a while it just begins to beat you down. The Pharos is by far my favorite final dungeon. I also really liked XII's plot so when it started revealing stuff about The Occuria and Venat and that, I appreciated it. Actually, FFXII's slowest part is the beginning. I loving hated the airship and desert. Once you set off for the Ozmone Plain though, it gets good.
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May 22, 2012 22:21
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The world of Ruin loving owned and I'll defend it to the death.  I loved going around and seeing what my team had been up to since the world got hosed up. The best part was that you didn't even have to. Didn't give a poo poo about Locke? No worries, you don't need him! Want a massive 14 person team to push Kefka's poo poo in? Go ahead.
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May 22, 2012 22:26
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Azure_Horizon posted:I dunno about that at all. The fact that Squall takes a near-fatal wound and then is magically better with no holes in his clothes or any sign of the wound is bizarre enough. Any cohesiveness in FF8 is only felt in Disc 1. Afterward, everything just kind of falls apart. That cutscene had battle physics is all. She did her limit break on him, and if I remember right someone literally casts Cure on him in prison to heal him up.
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May 22, 2012 22:27
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Evil Fluffy posted:Non-linear exploration and progression is considered a negative? It is if you only end up with a bunch of side-quests instead of a continuous narrative.
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May 22, 2012 22:27
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NikkolasKing posted:
(Full disclosure I haven't played through an FF game since X but I watched friends play XII and XIII.) I don't know if anyone else has had this issue but I've never been able to beat a Final Fantasy game my first time through. Towards the end of every game there's a point where the world is really opened up for you so you can grind levels before the final dungeon. The first time I play a Final Fantasy I would get to that point, start grinding, lose interest, and never go back to that save. When I did finally go back to the game I would start over from the beginning and only then would I get through the entire game.
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May 22, 2012 22:30
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Schwartzcough posted:Actually, that sounds like a common complaint of the middle span of Final Fantasies, anyway. You what? The World of Ruin was awesome. Wander the world and see what it looks like post-apocalypse, doing cool quests and getting the band back together! Or don't, go right to the final dungeon! Whatever man! There was a ton of great stuff and just because the overarching plot was more or less wrapped up until it was time to kill Kefka doesn't mean there weren't a bunch of cool plotlines to follow up on. Schwartzcough posted:FF9- "The first two disks were great, but the last two were just bleh." I don't know, I still liked the last two disks. Not as much as the first two, sure, but there was some good stuff there.
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May 22, 2012 22:38
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Tempo 119 posted:That cutscene had battle physics is all. She did her limit break on him, and if I remember right someone literally casts Cure on him in prison to heal him up.  That's all that is ever mentioned about his wound. You're confusing scenes -- Selphie casts Cure on a wounded Moomba right after.
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May 22, 2012 22:47
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